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TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 08:37 AM
Hex dont want more money?

jai151
06-06-2013, 08:39 AM
Without even going into all the problems it would cause having 5,000 pro tiers in the game, no, they don't want more money.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 08:41 AM
Without even going into all the problems it would cause having 5,000 pro tiers in the game, no, they don't want more money.


But... money is always better when its more...

jai151
06-06-2013, 08:43 AM
But... money is always better when its more...

That all depends on what you have to sell to get it.

Genocidal
06-06-2013, 08:43 AM
There are countless other threads about this.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 08:45 AM
There are countless other threads about this.

Butttt..... free drafts for life.

Scale
06-06-2013, 08:47 AM
But it doesn't work out as more. It works out more in the short term but the revenue would be lost in the long term, especially with tiers like the pro and grand king.
I missed the oppertunity to get the tier I would REALLY have loved too, but what you shouldn't be doing is sulking going 'I didn't get what I would most have liked it sucks and the people that got it suck and everything sucks and why wont crypto let me have it anyway'
Instead recognise that whatever tier you get you are getting an amazing deal really and enjoy what you can get. (and if you really want try to snipe one of the tier you do want.

But yes essentially it's a good plan by Crypto because they want the game to be economical after release which too many of some've the tiers could easily break, meaning the game would havea shorter life which is bad for everyone.

There's a load of other things to go into this reply but most of them aren't really relevent and really, I'm pretty sure this has all been gone over about a dozen times.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 08:50 AM
But it doesn't work out as more. It works out more in the short term but the revenue would be lost in the long term, especially with tiers like the pro and grand king.
I missed the oppertunity to get the tier I would REALLY have loved too, but what you shouldn't be doing is sulking going 'I didn't get what I would most have liked it sucks and the people that got it suck and everything sucks and why wont crypto let me have it anyway'
Instead recognise that whatever tier you get you are getting an amazing deal really and enjoy what you can get. (and if you really want try to snipe one of the tier you do want.

But yes essentially it's a good plan by Crypto because they want the game to be economical after release which too many of some've the tiers could easily break, meaning the game would havea shorter life which is bad for everyone.

There's a load of other things to go into this reply but most of them aren't really relevent and really, I'm pretty sure this has all been gone over about a dozen times.

Why did they give free drafts for 1 year then?

chuckdeg
06-06-2013, 08:51 AM
this forum is full of stupid people.

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 08:51 AM
Why did they give free drafts for 1 year then?

To be fair, the other tiers sucked in comparison.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 08:54 AM
To be fair, the other tiers sucked in comparison.

Then why did people purchase them before the free drafts?

gilby123
06-06-2013, 08:55 AM
It's simple. They want to limit the amount of lifetime stuff they hand out.

jai151
06-06-2013, 08:57 AM
Then why did people purchase them before the free drafts?

They didn't care about drafts.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 08:57 AM
It's simple. They want to limit the amount of lifetime stuff they hand out.


Okay why not limit the PP then! Raid leader / guildmaster is not going to affect anything, but will be very handy to have.

Genocidal
06-06-2013, 09:01 AM
Ok. Guild Master and Raid Leader are now unlimited. Go buy as many as you want!

Chance
06-06-2013, 09:08 AM
Wrath what the fuck did you eat this morning? Calm down with the poor posting today you should know the answers to these questions by now

Madican
06-06-2013, 09:20 AM
this forum is full of stupid people.

That pretty much describes the Internet as a whole.

jai151
06-06-2013, 09:22 AM
That pretty much describes the Internet as a whole.

And the reason we need a report button

Vorpal
06-06-2013, 09:23 AM
Every 'free drafts for life' tier they sell represents lost revenue to them in the long term.

So, if they care about money, they should sell only as many of those as they need to get their initial funding, and no more.

Given that this project has been funded to the order of 700% or so, they've obviously sold way more of these things than they strictly needed too.

cronedog
06-06-2013, 09:35 AM
Every 'free drafts for life' tier they sell represents lost revenue to them in the long term.

So, if they care about money, they should sell only as many of those as they need to get their initial funding, and no more.

Given that this project has been funded to the order of 700% or so, they've obviously sold way more of these things than they strictly needed too.

I think extra drafts for life might make them more money in the long run. It would go a long way towards curbing player attrition.

jai151
06-06-2013, 09:43 AM
I think extra drafts for life might make them more money in the long run. It would go a long way towards curbing player attrition.

There are way more complexities to the market than that, though. Every free draft run is 45 cards entering the economy at no cost, and every draft tournament run is X packs entering the economy (Currently unknown). Those free packs should be offset by the buy in cost, but since free players are not paying the buy in, that's coming out of CZE's pocket.

If enough drafts are run using the free draft and enough free drafters only play their weekly draft and nothing else, the AH gets glutted with cards and packs at little to no revenue for CZE. With a big surplus in the AH, no one buys packs from CZE. With a big surplus of chase rares in the AH, the price goes down and players buy less platinum to get the chase rares. In combination with other factors, this could combine to cause much less income for CZE than a smaller pool of overall players with a lower percentage of free drafters.

keldrin
06-06-2013, 01:06 PM
My only complaint was letting people purchase multiples of the really sought after tiers.
And, yeah, I get the whole, money angle of it. Plus I even get that, a lot of people who have free drafts, even 1 per week, won't pay for any drafts. So having fewer people with more drafts, effectively means more people paying for drafts.

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 01:14 PM
I think you guys are crazy with the "every PP tier is lost revenue argument." That only works if the person that owned the account was going to play one draft every week regardless of having the tier or not.

Am I just in the the tiny minority of people who scooped up the tier because I wanted to learn how to draft and am not an expert already? Without the tier I'd be sticking to constructed. With the tier I'm going to be drafting a lot more than I would have otherwise. I'm talking orders of magnitude. I literally would play a couple drafts when the game comes out, not do so well then stop. Then try again in the next set. Skip a couple sets cause I suck and feel like I'm throwing money away since the random cards I get are useless since I buy all the cards I need for my deck anyway.

With the tier, I'll actually have a method to comfortably get some draft experience under my belt. Some of these learned skills will improve my drafting ability overtime, and in some sets I'll have found that I "get" those sets and start doing well and so I'll be perfectly happy to start buying in to drafts.

This would not happen without the free drafts for me. The free drafts are going to make Cryptozoic money off of me. Am I the only one?

mainstager
06-06-2013, 01:17 PM
Wrath what the fuck did you eat this morning? Calm down with the poor posting today you should know the answers to these questions by now

This.

lord_simon3
06-06-2013, 01:18 PM
They are losing money from me. The ONLY way I'm going to support the game is if I can get a PP tier. Since that's extremely unlikely CZ just missed out on $250+. Yes I'm only one person, but I assure you I'm not the only one that feels that way.

mainstager
06-06-2013, 01:19 PM
I think you guys are crazy with the "every PP tier is lost revenue argument." That only works if the person that owned the account was going to play one draft every week regardless of having the tier or not.

Am I just in the the tiny minority of people who scooped up the tier because I wanted to learn how to draft and am not an expert already? Without the tier I'd be sticking to constructed. With the tier I'm going to be drafting a lot more than I would have otherwise. I'm talking orders of magnitude. I every literally would play a couple drafts when the game comes out, not do so well then stop. Then try again in the next set. Skip a couple sets cause I suck and feel like I'm throwing money away since the random cards I get are useless since I buy all the cards I need for my deck anyway.

With the tier, I'll actually have a method to comfortably get some draft experience under my belt. Some of these learned skills will improve my drafting ability overtime, and in some sets I'll have found that I "get" those sets and start doing well and so I'll be perfectly happy to start buying in to drafts.

This would not happen without the free drafts for me. The free drafts are going to make Cryptozoic money off of me. Am I the only one?

You are not the only one. I am in the same boat, my friend. Difference being, I also wanted collector and DC too, so GK was the logical choice.

roont
06-06-2013, 03:11 PM
They are losing money from me. The ONLY way I'm going to support the game is if I can get a PP tier. Since that's extremely unlikely CZ just missed out on $250+. Yes I'm only one person, but I assure you I'm not the only one that feels that way.

This is pretty much it.

While the other tiers certainly give a good value based on the success of the game, the PP and GK tiers are crazy value for a kickstarter campaign if this game turns out to have any success at all. The problem isnt that the other tiers arent good, its that PP is TOO good, and GK is even better. What they really should have done is give PP (and GK by extension) 1-2 years of free drafts in addition to another exclusive. this would have allowed them to not have to give a free year to the other tiers, and likely would have resulted in sold out tiers anyway.

Crypto sold themselves short with these tiers and in the process pissed off a lot of people who missed the boat early on.

Being a competitive game with potentially costly ongoing investment for the player, someone who wants to seriously considering playing this game long term is at an extreme disadvantage by not being able to get these benefits, and the sad thing is they are benefits that no one should really have for life save maybe the primal tier and above.

I am currently attempting to snipe a GK. If I am unable to do so I will likely pull my $500 pledge and not play this game at all. As it is I am wary of investing so much money in a game that has started off with such a poor kickstarter model.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 03:22 PM
I am currently attempting to snipe a GK. If I am unable to do so I will likely pull my $500 pledge and not play this game at all. As it is I am wary of investing so much money in a game that has started off with such a poor kickstarter model.

Thats the same logic as someone giving you a gold bar for 1 dollar. But then someone else gets 2 gold bars for 1 dollar. And you say thats not fair your stupid give me back my dollar!

Fireblast
06-06-2013, 03:28 PM
You have to understand CZE is in here for the long run.
The plan is for HEX to never die, so if they break their word during the 1st month of the adventure, the game won't last a year.

All they did was try to please the more people and stay true to their word.

The goal of the kickstarter was to raise funds to polish the game (300k) and to build a community, they succeeded, the game will be great.

~

ConnorJS
06-06-2013, 03:33 PM
By having so many cards injected into the game at low cost and free drafts, it essentially lowers the value of cards and ruins sales...

roont
06-06-2013, 03:37 PM
Thats the same logic as someone giving you a gold bar for 1 dollar. But then someone else gets 2 gold bars for 1 dollar. And you say thats not fair your stupid give me back my dollar!

Actually its the same logic as someone giving me digital goods for $500 dollars, and they give someone else more digital goods for $500 dollars. Per their own terms of service, I can not resell said digital goods as I would be able to a gold bar. As a result, the inequity of my $500 digital purchase and the GK's $500 digital purchase makes me question if I want to give them $500.

If you actually read my post, I am not complaining about the value of the other tiers, I am complaining about the overvalue of PP and GK.

Please take your terribly faulty arguments elsewhere.

nearlysober
06-06-2013, 03:38 PM
Doesn't matter if PP tiers are net gain or net loss to CZE financially.

Doesn't matter if they could support infinite free drafts.

What matters is, this is about COLLECTABLES. It's about not caving into and taking advantage of the Supply vs. Demand market.
That they are sticking to their guns and not increasing demand to make a quick buck.

That is an important stance for the company to make.

For those of you threatening that it's "all or nothing" and refusing to support at any level other than PP... well you can take your precious $250 to one of the other totally cool MMOTCGs out there.

Oh... wait...

I guess we'll see ya in November as you're building your collection one booster at a time.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 03:44 PM
Actually its the same logic as someone giving me digital goods for $500 dollars, and they give someone else more digital goods for $500 dollars. Per their own terms of service, I can not resell said digital goods as I would be able to a gold bar. As a result, the inequity of my $500 digital purchase and the GK's $500 digital purchase makes me question if I want to give them $500.

If you actually read my post, I am not complaining about the value of the other tiers, I am complaining about the overvalue of PP and GK.

Please take your terribly faulty arguments elsewhere.


Yes you are saying this gold bar for a dollar is awesome, but hes getting 2 gold bars for a dollar!! I want a refund!

stiii
06-06-2013, 03:45 PM
Actually its the same logic as someone giving me digital goods for $500 dollars, and they give someone else more digital goods for $500 dollars. Per their own terms of service, I can not resell said digital goods as I would be able to a gold bar. As a result, the inequity of my $500 digital purchase and the GK's $500 digital purchase makes me question if I want to give them $500.

If you actually read my post, I am not complaining about the value of the other tiers, I am complaining about the overvalue of PP and GK.

Please take your terribly faulty arguments elsewhere.

I don't think you even need to change the analogy, his gold bar example doesn't support what he is saying anyway. If you could buy gold for half a dollar then paying a whole dollar is a pretty terrible deal.

jai151
06-06-2013, 03:45 PM
Actually its the same logic as someone giving me digital goods for $500 dollars, and they give someone else more digital goods for $500 dollars. Per their own terms of service, I can not resell said digital goods as I would be able to a gold bar. As a result, the inequity of my $500 digital purchase and the GK's $500 digital purchase makes me question if I want to give them $500.

If you actually read my post, I am not complaining about the value of the other tiers, I am complaining about the overvalue of PP and GK.

Please take your terribly faulty arguments elsewhere.

Where in the TOS does it say you can't sell cards? Where have they even hinted it?

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 03:50 PM
I don't think you even need to change the analogy, his gold bar example doesn't support what he is saying anyway. If you could buy gold for half a dollar then paying a whole dollar is a pretty terrible deal.


Yes, because a gold bar is worth much less then a dollar.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 03:52 PM
I guess the Max Number for each of the tiers was factored into the long term survivability for the game. SOooo boooyah hex is in control.

roont
06-06-2013, 03:54 PM
Where in the TOS does it say you can't sell cards? Where have they even hinted it?

The value of PP/GK is in the account, not the cards. You cant sell accounts.

Avedecus
06-06-2013, 03:57 PM
The value of PP/GK is in the account, not the cards. You cant sell accounts.

You haven't played online games for very long, have you?

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 04:00 PM
You haven't played online games for very long, have you?

lol

roont
06-06-2013, 04:00 PM
Yes you are saying this gold bar for a dollar is awesome, but hes getting 2 gold bars for a dollar!! I want a refund!

Actually, I am saying that your gold bar analogy doesn't apply to this case. Digital goods with no resale value are only as valuable as you think they are. So in the case, the fact that PP/GK exist and I cant get them takes away from the value of the other tiers. It puts me at a disadvantage in a competitive game, and I am uncomfortable with that.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 04:01 PM
Actually, I am saying that your gold bar analogy doesn't apply to this case. Digital goods with no resale value are only as valuable as you think they are. So in the case, the fact that PP/GK exist and I cant get them takes away from the value of the other tiers. It puts me at a disadvantage in a competitive game, and I am uncomfortable with that.

Boosters are always going to be sold at 2 dollars. Your making twice the money on boosters alone for the king tier...

roont
06-06-2013, 04:02 PM
You haven't played online games for very long, have you?

If you would like to risk your $500 investment on a potential profit and hope not to get your account banned, be my guest. I'm simply playing by crypto's rules.

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 04:05 PM
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're talking about. Cryptozoic expects a secondary market to appear and they are doing their best to maintain the credibility of that market. Reselling our goods is not just expected, but encouraged. It's part of being a TCG.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 04:05 PM
If you would like to risk your $500 investment on a potential profit and hope not to get your account banned, be my guest. I'm simply playing by crypto's rules.

I wonder if they would ban someone for buying an account...
1) Who exactly is it hurting???????????????????????????????????????
2) How would they find out?????????????????

roont
06-06-2013, 04:08 PM
Boosters are always going to be sold at 2 dollars. Your making twice the money on boosters alone for the king tier...

On the other hand, I am losing 3 boosters and an entry fee ($7 total) a week. That is $364 a year. Going back to your stupid gold bar analogy, that gold bar is a lot bigger than my gold bar.

Talreth
06-06-2013, 04:08 PM
I think you guys are crazy with the "every PP tier is lost revenue argument." That only works if the person that owned the account was going to play one draft every week regardless of having the tier or not.

Am I just in the the tiny minority of people who scooped up the tier because I wanted to learn how to draft and am not an expert already? Without the tier I'd be sticking to constructed. With the tier I'm going to be drafting a lot more than I would have otherwise. I'm talking orders of magnitude. I literally would play a couple drafts when the game comes out, not do so well then stop. Then try again in the next set. Skip a couple sets cause I suck and feel like I'm throwing money away since the random cards I get are useless since I buy all the cards I need for my deck anyway.

With the tier, I'll actually have a method to comfortably get some draft experience under my belt. Some of these learned skills will improve my drafting ability overtime, and in some sets I'll have found that I "get" those sets and start doing well and so I'll be perfectly happy to start buying in to drafts.

This would not happen without the free drafts for me. The free drafts are going to make Cryptozoic money off of me. Am I the only one?

This is me. Hello me

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 04:09 PM
On the other hand, I am losing 3 boosters and an entry fee ($7 total) a week. That is $364 a year. Going back to your stupid gold bar analogy, that gold bar is a lot bigger than my gold bar.

Oh I didnt realize you were losing out because someone else got something you wanted.

Talreth
06-06-2013, 04:09 PM
On the other hand, I am losing 3 boosters and an entry fee ($7 total) a week. That is $364 a year. Going back to your stupid gold bar analogy, that gold bar is a lot bigger than my gold bar.

Think of this like the gold rush of '49 and you got here in 1949.

roont
06-06-2013, 04:10 PM
I wonder if they would ban someone for buying an account...
1) Who exactly is it hurting???????????????????????????????????????
2) How would they find out?????????????????

You haven't been playing online games very long, have you?

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 04:11 PM
For non-Americans, the California Gold Rush was actually in 1848-1855 or so.

Talreth
06-06-2013, 04:12 PM
For non-Americans, the California Gold Rush was actually in 1848-1855 or so.

I'm pretty sure that does not diminish my analogy in the slightest.

roont
06-06-2013, 04:12 PM
Think of this like the gold rush of '49 and you got here in 1949.

I'd rather think of it as a closed ecosystem online game where roughly 2000 players will have a distinct monetary advantage over the rest. Once again, I understand that the other tiers stand on their own as great value. I am simply stating that that value is shaded by PP/GK.

jai151
06-06-2013, 04:12 PM
I'm pretty sure that does not diminish my analogy in the slightest.

I'm pretty sure he was backing you up =)

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 04:14 PM
I'd rather think of it as a closed ecosystem online game where roughly 2000 players will have a distinct monetary advantage over the rest. Once again, I understand that the other tiers stand on their own as great value. I am simply stating that that value is shaded by PP/GK.

Considering the number of multibackers, probably closer to about 1000-1500 players.

jai151
06-06-2013, 04:15 PM
I'd rather think of it as a closed ecosystem online game where roughly 2000 players will have a distinct monetary advantage over the rest. Once again, I understand that the other tiers stand on their own as great value. I am simply stating that that value is shaded by PP/GK.

Aside from some accounts which will be sold in the future, pretty sure no one will care about this within the next six months.

Think of it this way. Every tier is limited, the rest are just time limited. Once kick starter ends, none of those bonuses will ever be available to anyone again.

Talreth
06-06-2013, 04:16 PM
I'd rather think of it as a closed ecosystem online game where roughly 2000 players will have a distinct monetary advantage over the rest. Once again, I understand that the other tiers stand on their own as great value. I am simply stating that that value is shaded by PP/GK.

So I bet you want to take that poor 84 year old woman's 370 million dollars away from her don't you? What kind of person are you?

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 04:17 PM
And every pledge from squire on up is going to have an advantage over everyone who joins the game after the kickstarter is over. It's the nature of the beast. You still have time to get in on acquiring an advantage over others if that's what you want.

roont
06-06-2013, 04:18 PM
Aside from some accounts which will be sold in the future, pretty sure no one will care about this within the next six months.

Think of it this way. Every tier is limited, the rest are just time limited. Once kick starter ends, none of those bonuses will ever be available to anyone again.

Acutally, I think you are pretty likely to see quite the uproar in September 2014 when all the collectors and DCs lose their drafts.

Talreth
06-06-2013, 04:19 PM
Acutally, I think you are pretty likely to see quite the uproar in September 2014 when all the collectors and DCs lose their drafts.

My one year draft ran out after a year? THANKS OBAMA

jai151
06-06-2013, 04:19 PM
Acutally, I think you are pretty likely to see quite the uproar in September 2014 when all the collectors and DCs lose their drafts.

Why, cause they're going to forget they only had a year?

Ozmono
06-06-2013, 04:20 PM
So I bet you want to take that poor 84 year old woman's 370 million dollars away from her don't you? What kind of person are you?

Are you serious? How did you arrive at that? Worse why than go on from that assumption to question his moral character?
Very cheap and nasty. I hope I missed something.

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 04:20 PM
I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised that their 1 year limited benefit ends, but I would expect it to make a splash anyway...

Talreth
06-06-2013, 04:21 PM
Are you serious? How did you arrive at that? Worse why than go on from that assumption to question his moral character?
Very cheap and nasty. I hope I missed something.

You know I'm not cheap because I got 3x Pro Player.

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 04:22 PM
The tiers aren't changing. You have 18 hours to scoop up one of these deals that are left. It's up to you to decide to play or not, nothing anyone says here changes any of that or will affect what Cryptozoic does for the last few hours of the kickstarter. I don't know what else can be said.

Ozmono
06-06-2013, 04:23 PM
You know I'm not cheap because I got 3x Pro Player.

Obviously I meant cheap shot.

roont
06-06-2013, 04:24 PM
I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised that their 1 year limited benefit ends, but I would expect it to make a splash anyway...

When an expected playstyle suddenly costs $350 a year, it really doesnt matter if you told the player in advance.

roont
06-06-2013, 04:25 PM
You know I'm not cheap because I got 3x Pro Player.

I lol'd.

jai151
06-06-2013, 04:25 PM
When an expected playstyle suddenly costs $350 a year, it really doesnt matter if you told the player in advance.

Yeah, it kinda does. Are you up in arms when your one week free trial to Netflix ends and you have to pay?

roont
06-06-2013, 04:26 PM
The tiers aren't changing. You have 18 hours to scoop up one of these deals that are left. It's up to you to decide to play or not, nothing anyone says here changes any of that or will affect what Cryptozoic does for the last few hours of the kickstarter. I don't know what else can be said.

I feel like ForgedSol is trying to stop an internet argument. Good luck with that ;)

Talreth
06-06-2013, 04:26 PM
The tiers aren't changing. You have 18 hours to scoop up one of these deals that are left. It's up to you to decide to play or not, nothing anyone says here changes any of that or will affect what Cryptozoic does for the last few hours of the kickstarter. I don't know what else can be said.

"Before I go, a couple quick answers

1. I imagine the “alpha” will be several weeks long. We want to balance “what is polished enough” to show you, with giving you a bit of time in HEX before anyone else.
2. No more tears, under any circumstances. "

"Before I go, a couple quick answers

1. I imagine the “alpha” will be several weeks long. We want to balance “what is polished enough” to show you, with giving you a bit of time in HEX before anyone else.
2. No more tears, under any circumstances. "

"Before I go, a couple quick answers

1. I imagine the “alpha” will be several weeks long. We want to balance “what is polished enough” to show you, with giving you a bit of time in HEX before anyone else.
2. No more tears, under any circumstances. "

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 04:28 PM
When an expected playstyle suddenly costs $350 a year, it really doesnt matter if you told the player in advance.

I doubt even the worst draft player in the world fails to place in 50 drafts in a row.

roont
06-06-2013, 04:29 PM
Yeah, it kinda does. Are you up in arms when your one week free trial to Netflix ends and you have to pay?

A year is a lot longer than a week. Kind of hard to form a habit in a week. I think it is more like when your promo cable price stops. You know you are going to be paying more after that year or six months, but it still pisses you off when it happens. It is in our nature to focus on what we are losing (savings) instead of what we were given (savings).

Ozmono
06-06-2013, 04:29 PM
"Before I go, a couple quick answers

1. I imagine the “alpha” will be several weeks long. We want to balance “what is polished enough” to show you, with giving you a bit of time in HEX before anyone else.
2. No more tears, under any circumstances. "

"Before I go, a couple quick answers

1. I imagine the “alpha” will be several weeks long. We want to balance “what is polished enough” to show you, with giving you a bit of time in HEX before anyone else.
2. No more tears, under any circumstances. "

"Before I go, a couple quick answers

1. I imagine the “alpha” will be several weeks long. We want to balance “what is polished enough” to show you, with giving you a bit of time in HEX before anyone else.
2. No more tears, under any circumstances. "
All I got from that, is your going. I'm very happy.

jai151
06-06-2013, 04:35 PM
A year is a lot longer than a week. Kind of hard to form a habit in a week. I think it is more like when your promo cable price stops. You know you are going to be paying more after that year or six months, but it still pisses you off when it happens. It is in our nature to focus on what we are losing (savings) instead of what we were given (savings).

Yeah, but you don't get that bill that pisses you off. The button just disappears. Then it's up to you if you want to draft. If not, that's the end of it. If so, you'll continue drafting. The strongest reaction we'll see is "That was fun while it lasted"

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 04:39 PM
Yeah, but you don't get that bill that pisses you off. The button just disappears. Then it's up to you if you want to draft. If not, that's the end of it. If so, you'll continue drafting. The strongest reaction we'll see is "That was fun while it lasted"

I'm sure there will be people begging for an extension, but if CZE didn't crack on people begging for more PP slots, I doubt they'll crack for the small number of people who beg for more free drafts.

jai151
06-06-2013, 04:41 PM
I'm sure there will be people begging for an extension, but if CZE didn't crack on people begging for more PP slots, I doubt they'll crack for the small number of people who beg for more free drafts.

Honestly, I expect that most of the people stirring the pot on the whole free draft thing aren't, and wouldn't be, pledged anyway.

roont
06-06-2013, 04:48 PM
Yeah, but you don't get that bill that pisses you off. The button just disappears. Then it's up to you if you want to draft. If not, that's the end of it. If so, you'll continue drafting. The strongest reaction we'll see is "That was fun while it lasted"

Full disclosure: This sidetrack has gotten me arguing for arguments sake.

This greatly depends on if the majority of backers are TCG players or MMO players.
If TCG players, then ya. What you said makes sense.
If MMO players, then no. Sorry. MMO players are not really known for their level headed constructive community building and civil forums.
Given that the first none broken tier to sell out was DC, I think some of you TCG players are gunna be in for a rude awakening when this hits the masses...

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 05:07 PM
Full disclosure: This sidetrack has gotten me arguing for arguments sake.

This greatly depends on if the majority of backers are TCG players or MMO players.
If TCG players, then ya. What you said makes sense.
If MMO players, then no. Sorry. MMO players are not really known for their level headed constructive community building and civil forums.
Given that the first none broken tier to sell out was DC, I think some of you TCG players are gunna be in for a rude awakening when this hits the masses...

Yeah, people in general feel like they are entitled to anything that's given to them regularly...

Kietay
06-06-2013, 05:11 PM
You people are upside down turtles! If they gave unlimited PP tiers it would just be the people who found out about HEX after the KS who complained they didnt get the tiers instead of people who found out too late. Yes PP is way more valuable than all the other tiers. Yes you missed out simply because you werent here early enough.

Welcome to the rest of your life. If you don't get used to it and learn to enjoy the benefits you still get from being in the KS then you will be a sad turtle forever.

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 05:26 PM
-1 of 913. I want to see what PP will be like if we hit 1 of 913.

theradol
06-06-2013, 05:29 PM
i don't think pp is that amazing tbh.

GK on the other hand is pretty nice.

lord_simon3
06-06-2013, 05:54 PM
It has NOTHING to do with whether anyone else got a good deal or not. Getting a PP tier is about MY OWN PERSONAL perceived value of HEX. It's not worth it to me personally to get invested in the game unless I could snag a PP spot. I refuse to throw $384 a year to HEX to play 1 draft a week when I could potentially get it for $250 for life.

Kietay
06-06-2013, 05:55 PM
It has NOTHING to do with whether anyone else got a good deal or not. Getting a PP tier is about MY OWN PERSONAL perceived value of HEX. It's not worth it to me personally to get invested in the game unless I could snag a PP spot. I refuse to throw $384 a year to HEX to play 1 draft a week when I could potentially get it for $250 for life.

Then you won't be playing? :O

caffn8d
06-06-2013, 06:02 PM
Guess not. GLHF!

TheBlueMagician
06-06-2013, 06:04 PM
ITT: people who don't understand the concept of "first come, first serve," "limited quantities," or searching forums.

This has been discussed to death. Yes, Pro-Player has the best "cash value" as far as anyone can tell right now. If all you're interested in is drafting, or getting lifetime free shit, and you don't have PP already: YOU'RE SHIT OUT OF LUCK.

Seriously, no amount of whining, complaining, arguing, discussing, theorizing, postulating, or analyzing is going to change the fact they aren't going to change the tiers, they aren't going to open up more slots, and your only hope of getting PP or GK is through automated spamming. So either get over it and shut up, or don't play Hex and shut up. Either way, for the love of god, shut up.

fitzle
06-06-2013, 06:14 PM
I'm not sure why anyone is concerned about this anyway. You know as well as I do, none of these pro-players are going to win big. It's going to be some 15 year old scrub who downloaded this free game to his grandma's Kindle and turns out to be a CCG Savant and walks away with all the big prizes.

theradol
06-06-2013, 06:14 PM
ITT: people who don't understand the concept of "first come, first serve," "limited quantities," or searching forums.

This has been discussed to death. Yes, Pro-Player has the best "cash value" as far as anyone can tell right now. If all you're interested in is drafting, or getting lifetime free shit, and you don't have PP already: YOU'RE SHIT OUT OF LUCK.

Seriously, no amount of whining, complaining, arguing, discussing, theorizing, postulating, or analyzing is going to change the fact they aren't going to change the tiers, they aren't going to open up more slots, and your only hope of getting PP or GK is through automated spamming. So either get over it and shut up, or don't play Hex and shut up. Either way, for the love of god, shut up.

I made a thread like this last week. Nothing but unhelpful answers in it too.

Here is what I have arrived at, the tier's are limited simply to create artificial scarcity-

Its unlikely that CZE expected them to be so wildly sought after, and especially didn't envision hundreds of people with bots on kickstarter camping them out.

However, after stating something was going to be limited, since they are going to be running a collectibles market, they realize that their value only comes from artificial scarcity and don't want to up the tiers.

I'm sure if they knew the game could sell like this, they would have had at 2-10x as many slots. But once they said they were limited, they weren't gonna go back on that.

In truth though, Pro player doesn't necessarily have the best cash value. If the game is a wild success and ends up being like mtg, collector is gonna be more valuable.

If the game fails after a few years, its probably the worst tier. And the odds are that this game is gonna be dominated by f2p players.

who are more interested in pve. Pve is the thing thats unique about this game. So imho raid leader is going to be more better eventually if the game makes it.

roont
06-06-2013, 06:23 PM
ITT: people who don't understand the concept of "first come, first serve," "limited quantities," or searching forums.

This has been discussed to death. Yes, Pro-Player has the best "cash value" as far as anyone can tell right now. If all you're interested in is drafting, or getting lifetime free shit, and you don't have PP already: YOU'RE SHIT OUT OF LUCK.

Seriously, no amount of whining, complaining, arguing, discussing, theorizing, postulating, or analyzing is going to change the fact they aren't going to change the tiers, they aren't going to open up more slots, and your only hope of getting PP or GK is through automated spamming. So either get over it and shut up, or don't play Hex and shut up. Either way, for the love of god, shut up.


A summery of this thread:

Player A: Why'd they do this?

Player B: They did it, get over it.

Player C: I know they arent going to change it, but why do it in the first place?

An actual discussion with coherent thought ensues.

TheBlueMagician: SHUT UP!

happy to have your contribution, TheBlueMagician.

Turtlewing
06-06-2013, 06:30 PM
You people are upside down turtles!

Hey! Not cool!

BlindMan
06-06-2013, 06:35 PM
Hey! Not cool!

Oh man...always look around to make sure there aren't any turtles in earshot.

Kietay
06-06-2013, 06:43 PM
why! What are the turtles going to do to me. I will turn them into their upside down mode. Then, spin spin spin spin turtle spin.

TheBlueMagician
06-06-2013, 06:59 PM
A summery of this thread:

Player A: Why'd they do this?

Player B: They did it, get over it.

Player C: I know they arent going to change it, but why do it in the first place?

An actual discussion with coherent thought ensues.

TheBlueMagician: SHUT UP!

happy to have your contribution, TheBlueMagician.

People have told you why they did it, and you kept going. Apparently you people can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that it would be bad for CZE to give away unlimited amounts of rewards that guarantee people will spend less money on their game after launch.

That's it. That's why they did it.

If you can't figure out the other obvious reasons someone would give out limited quantities of certain items in a promotional campaign, that's your problem.

Also, the only coherent thing about this thread was Talreth's gold rush analogy. The rest of it was poorly rehashed old threads in the form of godawful analogies and personal tastes used as justification for an argument.

theradol
06-06-2013, 07:07 PM
People have told you why they did it, and you kept going. Apparently you people can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that it would be bad for CZE to give away unlimited amounts of rewards that guarantee people will spend less money on their game after launch.

That's it. That's why they did it.

If you can't figure out the other obvious reasons someone would give out limited quantities of certain items in a promotional campaign, that's your problem.

Also, the only coherent thing about this thread was Talreth's gold rush analogy. The rest of it was poorly rehashed old threads in the form of godawful analogies and personal tastes used as justification for an argument.

im trying to figure out what you are angry about.

...

wtf are you angry about.

Why don't you just not post in this anymore. Last thing hex needs is people running off potential players because they can't play nice in the sandbox.

Jotora
06-06-2013, 07:10 PM
That all depends on what you have to sell to get it.This guy here. This is the guy.

roont
06-06-2013, 07:34 PM
People have told you why they did it, and you kept going. Apparently you people can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that it would be bad for CZE to give away unlimited amounts of rewards that guarantee people will spend less money on their game after launch.

That's it. That's why they did it.

If you can't figure out the other obvious reasons someone would give out limited quantities of certain items in a promotional campaign, that's your problem.

Also, the only coherent thing about this thread was Talreth's gold rush analogy. The rest of it was poorly rehashed old threads in the form of godawful analogies and personal tastes used as justification for an argument.


-------- <--This thread.

------- <-- TheBlueMagician's head.

I didn't stoop to insulting the other guy because his argument was insulting enough. You on the other hand are just an ass.

The question has not been why they wont increase the limits since the very first page of this thread. We get that. We have always had that. You are the umpteenth person in this thread to explain that. The question has been why they had such overvalued tiers in the first place and the effect said tiers have on the value of other tiers.

BenRGamer
06-06-2013, 07:39 PM
The question has been why they had such overvalued tiers in the first place and the effect said tiers have on the value of other tiers.

Er, they've explained that. In the streams. They really didn't expect anyone to pledge above King, Cory placed the special $250 tiers as more of a showcase of the different types of player they expect to find in the game. Hence why they're all named like they are 'The Collector, The Dungeon Crawler, The Raid Leader,' etc.

So, pretty much, they didn't think many if any people would take it.

Avedecus
06-06-2013, 07:41 PM
The question has not been why they wont increase the limits since the very first page of this thread. We get that. We have always had that. You are the umpteenth person in this thread to explain that. The question has been why they had such overvalued tiers in the first place and the effect said tiers have on the value of other tiers.

The tiers are over-valued because the community places greater value on them than on the other tiers. Has nothing to do with Crypto, save for their own lack of displaying the features which the other tiers benefit.

roont
06-06-2013, 07:42 PM
And I am sure they are kicking themselves over it now... They could have gotten as much giving PP/GK one year of drafts + a throwaway exclusive.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think they have ever really addressed the pure monetary value advantage of PP in relation to the other tiers assuming a successful game.

Talreth
06-06-2013, 07:45 PM
And I am sure they are kicking themselves over it now... They could have gotten as much giving PP/GK one year of drafts + a throwaway exclusive.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think they have ever really addressed the pure monetary value advantage of PP in relation to the other tiers assuming a successful game.

"After the Kickstarter launch, it became clear that many players saw the Pro Player tier as the best tier, and in hindsight, we can see that it’s out of balance with the other four. What we’ve done here is try to bring the other tiers in-line with the Pro Player tier"

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/489732

just in case you missed that update


Also, I don't know why they need to address that the pro player tier is monetarily different from other tiers. That's the whole point of the tier. You don't get any PvE related stuff or group related stuff or anything but money. Because that's all the "pro players" really care about. So of course it has a money advantage.

Avedecus
06-06-2013, 07:46 PM
And I am sure they are kicking themselves over it now... They could have gotten as much giving PP/GK one year of drafts + a throwaway exclusive.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think they have ever really addressed the pure monetary value advantage of PP in relation to the other tiers assuming a successful game.
Assuming a successful game, I think you're undervaluing Collector.

stiii
06-06-2013, 07:48 PM
And I am sure they are kicking themselves over it now... They could have gotten as much giving PP/GK one year of drafts + a throwaway exclusive.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think they have ever really addressed the pure monetary value advantage of PP in relation to the other tiers assuming a successful game.

Or maybe they would have raised significantly less money. A lot of the early money came from PP/GK backers. So there was a lot of attention generated for Hex because it raised so much money early on. Other people saw how popular the game was and wanted to join in. This type of game benefits a lot from a large player base.

roont
06-06-2013, 07:48 PM
"After the Kickstarter launch, it became clear that many players saw the Pro Player tier as the best tier, and in hindsight, we can see that it’s out of balance with the other four. What we’ve done here is try to bring the other tiers in-line with the Pro Player tier"

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/489732

just in case you missed that update


Also, I don't know why they need to address that the pro player tier is monetarily different from other tiers. That's the whole point of the tier. You don't get any PvE related stuff or group related stuff or anything but money. Because that's all the "pro players" really care about. So of course it has a money advantage.

Thanks.
I'm not really sure they accomplished that (and the snipe botting backs that up) but I appreciate being put in my place ;)

Talreth
06-06-2013, 07:50 PM
Thanks.
I'm not really sure they accomplished that (and the snipe botting backs that up) but I appreciate being put in my place ;)

Yeah that's an entirely different discussion altogether, but eventually it comes down to objective versus subjective value.

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 07:51 PM
At this point, they all have lifetime benefits.

Guild leader, though...poor guild leader.

roont
06-06-2013, 07:52 PM
Assuming a successful game, I think you're undervaluing Collector.

This is what I am currently backed to. Getting more intelligent discussion and less TheBlueMagician makes me think the community for this game (or at least the early community) has a chance, so they will probably at least get $250 out of me... I'm still bitter though ;)

Ozmono
06-06-2013, 08:13 PM
Even the Guild leader is great value when you take into consideration the free drafts for a year and the 90 free booster you can gift to yourself if you so choose. And that's assuming your not even planning on running a guild lol. It's not as good as the others of that level but it's still good.

BenRGamer
06-06-2013, 08:16 PM
To be honest, if you just want boosters, even two Kings may be a better deal than Guild Master. A full set of the exclusive cards, two Spectral Lotus Gardens, and over 300 boosters.

Ozmono
06-06-2013, 08:18 PM
To be honest, if you just want boosters, even two Kings may be a better deal than Guild Master. A full set of the exclusive cards, two Spectral Lotus Gardens, and over 300 boosters.
I considered that but I think the draft for one year and the boosters probably would tilt it in favour of the Guild Master being better value. It's only 10 bucks more than two kings.