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View Full Version : How much is a complete Playset worth? (Primal Tier Question)



ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 08:08 PM
I need to make my decision. Only I can answer how much a vanity card and custom sleeves are worth to me, but I'd like to hear input on what you guys think the value of a playset of every PvP and PvE card is worth?

Oh, let me add that I'm backing primarily for PvP, but I'm curious about PvE. For sure making Keep Defense decks sounds like a lot of fun if nothing else. I'll probably give all the dungeons a go, but I don't expect to do dungeons and raids multiple times. (No idea if that will change when I actually try it out.)

Another add: I don't care about finding cards in boosters. I tend to be a constructed player when it comes to magic and tend to just get what cards I need. I'd try out the PvE side without using the playsets to see what the experience is like, but for PvP having all the cards from the get go is a great thing.

hexnaes
06-06-2013, 08:13 PM
To me? Very little. I wouldn't take a complete playset of every card for life if someone gave it to me. It would probably ruin the game for me as I enjoy the chase of trying to get them all. :)

BossHoss
06-06-2013, 08:14 PM
What is your backup again?

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 08:16 PM
I guess I should have mentioned that. I have four Grand Kings. I picked them up the day after PP ran out. I was going to combine them... but now it seems like it would be a shame to eliminate the RL, GM, DC perks from the game, so I'm keeping them separate. (And of course when the free VIP months wear off, I'll only be paying for VIP for just one account.) One account is going to my brother. If I went Primal, I'd have to give up two or three GKs.

Kami
06-06-2013, 08:17 PM
Depends on your philosophy.

For me, I use the 'sandbox' analogy:

The game is a sandbox. The cards are the 'sand', your collection is the 'box'.

I'd rather spend my time playing with the sand in the sandbox than spending time filling in the box with sand.

For others though, they get the enjoyment out of filling in the box.

It's a subjective thing.

Pezzle
06-06-2013, 08:17 PM
At present it has no value at all.

It is impossible to judge the value of a complete set with current information. You need information only available when the game is up and running.

MugenMusou
06-06-2013, 08:19 PM
Since Cryptozoic has been pretty tight lip about the rarity distribution, it is really hard for any of us to get a rough estimate. Having said that I just cannot image it would be any more than MTGO; otherwise, people will scream. So the max is $400/play set. Now the booster packs are half the price, so does that mean $200/play set? I doubt it's gonna be that cheap but certain be nice.

So for PvP side it would be $200-$400/playset is what I predict.

PvE side, I have no idea.

Avaian
06-06-2013, 08:19 PM
All Set 1 cards from drafts and boosters can essentially by broken down for materials or sold on the Auction Houses. That is a positive side to it.

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 08:20 PM
Since Cryptozoic has been pretty tight lip about the rarity distribution, it is really hard for any of us to get a rough estimate. Having said that I just cannot image it would be any more than MTGO; otherwise, people will scream. So the max is $400/play set. Now the booster packs are half the price, so does that mean $200/play set? I doubt it's gonna be that cheap but certain be nice.

So for PvP side it would be $200-$400/playset is what I predict.

PvE side, I have no idea.

Is that the value of 1 of every card or the value of 4 of every card in a set?

BossHoss
06-06-2013, 08:20 PM
My thought is this with DL providing 1 of each: I too am a PvP player and with all the packs provided from having kings, PP`s, etc are more than enough to fill the set in while providing enough of a "taste" to build solid PvE decks. The price difference of DL => Primal for me becomes only the vanity of sleeves as I don't have a "need" for the PvE cards

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 08:22 PM
I guess that's an option to think about too. Trying to snipe a DL in the last few hours.

Ozmono
06-06-2013, 08:23 PM
It should be said too that the game isn't finished yet. We are kickstarting it. There is no guarantees that the game will be successful for 1 year let alone 10 or 20. In that case it wouldn't be worth very much.

It doesn't seem likely at the moment that the game will flop in the first year though and hopefully it will have a long life. Even with that said and assumed though, the true value is still too hard to judge for reasons already mentioned in this thread.

Kietay
06-06-2013, 08:24 PM
About ninety thousand. Give or take!

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 08:24 PM
It should be said too that the game isn't finished yet. We are kickstarting it. There is no guarantees that the game will be successful for 1 year let alone 10 or 20. In that case it wouldn't be worth very much.

It doesn't seem likely at the moment that the game will flop in the first year though and hopefully it will have a long life. Even with that said and assumed though, the true value is still too hard to judge for reasons already mentioned in this thread.

Too hard to judge, but I gotta make that judgement by tomorrow. So I gotta work with what I have.

Lazybum
06-06-2013, 08:26 PM
Depends on your philosophy.

For me, I use the 'sandbox' analogy:

The game is a sandbox. The cards are the 'sand', your collection is the 'box'.

I'd rather spend my time playing with the sand in the sandbox than spending time filling in the box with sand.

For others though, they get the enjoyment out of filling in the box.

It's a subjective thing.

wow, that is pretty cool and really describes things well

Ozmono
06-06-2013, 08:30 PM
Too hard to judge, but I gotta make that judgement by tomorrow. So I gotta work with what I have.
Fair enough, I wish you the best of luck making the right decision than. Unfortunately I don't think I can offer anything substantial that will help you make it. So I'll just wish you my best again, good luck.

MugenMusou
06-06-2013, 08:30 PM
Is that the value of 1 of every card or the value of 4 of every card in a set?

For Magic online usually 1 of each for any particular set usually cost ~$100 as long as you are in the block. Obviously, the value changes if it rotates out (higher or lower). So playset i.e. 4 copies are rought $400.

So each year, $1200? If no core set like magic. If there is core set, then $1600. So PvP alone you will get value after 6 years or so. But again PvE content value is simply unknown to me. It can be really valuable though I highly doubt it be more than PvP. So consider PvP as a cap.

Lots of assumptions here.

But the worst case scenario, if PvP playset is $200 and only 3 sets per year. Then PvE cards have no value. Then $600/yr. So it will take over 16 years to get the value out.

The best case scenario, if PvP playset is $400 and 4 sets per year (including core) and PvE card are worth like half the price of PvP then you can potentially get your money back in 4 years or so?

BossHoss
06-06-2013, 08:36 PM
For Magic online usually 1 of each for any particular set usually cost ~$100 as long as you are in the block. Obviously, the value changes if it rotates out (higher or lower). So playset i.e. 4 copies are rought $400.

So each year, $1200? If no core set like magic. If there is core set, then $1600. So PvP alone you will get value after 6 years or so. But again PvE content value is simply unknown to me. It can be really valuable though I highly doubt it be more than PvP. So consider PvP as a cap.

Lots of assumptions here.

But the worst case scenario, if PvP playset is $200 and only 3 sets per year. Then PvE cards have no value. Then $600/yr. So it will take over 16 years to get the value out.

The best case scenario, if PvP playset is $400 and 4 sets per year (including core) and PvE card are worth like half the price of PvP then you can potentially get your money back in 4 years or so?

He is only asking about primal though not producer...

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 08:38 PM
You're mixing up Producer and Primal tier. If I could afford it, I would have gone Producer. But Primal is just a playset of every card for just the first Set.

So it doesn't sound like it really would be all that hard for me to save a ton of a money and just buy up what cards I need. That means I'll have to value the custom sleeves a lot (That's one of the main things I want it for.)

Having a full playset does mean that every draft I play while just Set 1 is out is pure profit/trade goods for equipment because I won't need to keep any of those cards. So that's $7x (plus prize packs) of however many weeks there is until Set 2. And then still giving me some money back when sets 2 and 3 come out because those drafts will still use Set 1 boosters, just not the full $7 worth.

hacky
06-06-2013, 08:46 PM
Math time! Let's make the following assumptions:

- 18 Legendaries in set 1 (PvP) [Cory's estimation on yesterday's podcast)
- 1 in every 8 packs has a Legendary instead of a Rare
- Perfect card distribution, no duplicate Legendaries

If the above are true, it will take 144 packs to have one of each PvP legendary. 576 packs to get a playset of PvP legendaries. Which is also 504 rares, so you'll likely have a playset of each PvP rare as well.

And 576 packs is $1172. And this isn't calculating the value of each PvE card, or equipment. And this is only set 1.

If the following are true, the value calculation is affected as follows:

- More legendaries in the set? Adds to the value of the playset.
- Packs with a legendary are rarer than 1-in-8? Adds to the value of the playset.
- Card distribution isn't perfect? Adds to the value of the playset. :)

hex_colin
06-06-2013, 08:54 PM
Math time! Let's make the following assumptions:

- 18 Legendaries in set 1 (PvP) [Cory's estimation on yesterday's podcast)
- 1 in every 8 packs has a Legendary instead of a Rare
- Perfect card distribution, no duplicate Legendaries

If the above are true, it will take 144 packs to have one of each PvP legendary. 576 packs to get a playset of PvP legendaries. Which is also 504 rares, so you'll likely have a playset of each PvP rare as well.

And 576 packs is $1172. And this isn't calculating the value of each PvE card, or equipment. And this is only set 1.

If the following are true, the value calculation is affected as follows:

- More legendaries in the set? Adds to the value of the playset.
- Packs with a legendary are rarer than 1-in-8? Adds to the value of the playset.
- Card distribution isn't perfect? Adds to the value of the playset. :)

This is almost exactly how I settled on DL to start with... and how I convinced myself to go all the way eventually...

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 09:00 PM
Math time! Let's make the following assumptions:

- 18 Legendaries in set 1 (PvP) [Cory's estimation on yesterday's podcast)
- 1 in every 8 packs has a Legendary instead of a Rare
- Perfect card distribution, no duplicate Legendaries

If the above are true, it will take 144 packs to have one of each PvP legendary. 576 packs to get a playset of PvP legendaries. Which is also 504 rares, so you'll likely have a playset of each PvP rare as well.

And 576 packs is $1172. And this isn't calculating the value of each PvE card, or equipment. And this is only set 1.

If the following are true, the value calculation is affected as follows:

- More legendaries in the set? Adds to the value of the playset.
- Packs with a legendary are rarer than 1-in-8? Adds to the value of the playset.
- Card distribution isn't perfect? Adds to the value of the playset. :)

I love math time! Those are some good numbers to work with, along with MugenMusou's numbers.

MugenMusou
06-06-2013, 09:01 PM
You're mixing up Producer and Primal tier. If I could afford it, I would have gone Producer. But Primal is just a playset of every card for just the first Set.

So it doesn't sound like it really would be all that hard for me to save a ton of a money and just buy up what cards I need. That means I'll have to value the custom sleeves a lot (That's one of the main things I want it for.)

Having a full playset does mean that every draft I play while just Set 1 is out is pure profit/trade goods for equipment because I won't need to keep any of those cards. So that's $7x (plus prize packs) of however many weeks there is until Set 2. And then still giving me some money back when sets 2 and 3 come out because those drafts will still use Set 1 boosters, just not the full $7 worth.

Oops sorry... Well that case, I think the cheapest approach is to actually buy multiple King Tiers and get lots of booster packs. Hacky used 1:8 Legendary:Rare ratio. I don't know where the number came from. But if that's the correct ratio, then the cheapest way is probably to get 576 packs I.e. get 4 King Tiers!

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 09:06 PM
That's an interesting thought.

I think I'm convinced to not get Primal. I'll probably be releasing it in an hour or go. I'll think it over at the gym. Now the question is if I just want to pick up some more tiers.

Maybe just pick up two more collectors.

I would love to pick up Primal, but the timing of the kickstarter is just two weeks off from being able to do it without also giving up more than just one Grand King. But that doesn't mean I can't also pick up some other tiers while the kickstarter is still up. The custom sleeves would be awesome, and this is the only time to get that, but maybe not that awesome.

(But then again I can always just buy more boosters, drafts, cards... I can never buy custom sleeves!)

Qorsair
06-06-2013, 09:41 PM
If it's not too much of a stretch on the wallet... remember, you'll probably never have another chance to work with Cryptozoic to design the custom sleeves. (Unless maybe you win it as a prize in a tournament?). If it's going to make things too tight, then let it go, it's only custom sleeves.

ForgedSol
06-06-2013, 10:27 PM
Dropped the Primal Tier (and someone already scooped it up, so no guilt about the stretch goal for me). Also picked up two more Collectors, no more turning back for me. And I think I'm okay with it.

Lived the dream for a bit, and now it's over. Those custom sleeves will have to live in my head.

Thanks everyone for your input!

Fireblast
06-06-2013, 10:31 PM
How can a set in MTGO be $100 when it's redeemable to physical cards?

Ravnica's lands are like $10 each, that's already $50 for RTR and Gatecrash.

~

MugenMusou
06-06-2013, 10:35 PM
How can a set in MTGO be $100 when it's redeemable to physical cards?

Ravnica's lands are like $10 each, that's already $50 for RTR and Gatecrash.

~

Haven't played MTGO for a while, but MTGO actually provide you cheaper way to get physical card. That what my friend does.

http://www.mtgotraders.com/store/complete_sets.html

Obviously there are some variability in prices. But you can usually get these cards cheaper than what is sold on MTGO trader.

whythelastman
06-07-2013, 07:47 AM
Primal includes PvE, correct? In terms of PvE cards, a full playset of Set 1 would be 300+ x 4, right?

I hope that there will be some PvE cards in high demand because of Keep, Wild Wild West, and certain Raids requiring harder to get cards to complete. This will help me justify keeping Primal.

Is it true that PvE can only be earned in game through dungeons and raids? And that it logically follows that the rarest PvE cards will be rare from the get go because not everyone will be able to earn them personally? Is is possible that PvE cards may rival the demand seen for some PvP?

(Trying to talk myself into keeping Primal.)

Kami
06-07-2013, 07:48 AM
Primal includes PvE, correct? In terms of PvE cards, a full playset of Set 1 would be 300+ x 4, right?

A full playset of Set 1 will be approximately 650x4. PvP and PvE cards are unique sets.


Is it true that PvE can only be earned in game through dungeons and raids? And that it logically follows that the rarest PvE cards will be rare from the get go because not everyone will be able to earn them personally? Is is possible that PvE cards may rival the demand seen for some PvP?

PvE can only be earned through dungeon/raids or from other players/AH. PvE cards are likely to be significantly rarer than PvP cards. Equipment will be the rarest.

whythelastman
06-07-2013, 07:51 AM
Thanks Kami! Always helpful :)

stiii
06-07-2013, 10:09 AM
I think you'll find a full set of set one is worth a lot less than any of the later sets. It is a case of supply and demand there are a large number of people getting packs of set one through the kickstarter. Those packs are going to flood the market massively driving down the prices of all of the first set cards.

Turtlewing
06-07-2013, 10:36 AM
I think you'll find a full set of set one is worth a lot less than any of the later sets. It is a case of supply and demand there are a large number of people getting packs of set one through the kickstarter. Those packs are going to flood the market massively driving down the prices of all of the first set cards.

Only the PvP cards. PvE cards don't come in packs.

Chance
06-07-2013, 10:56 AM
Honestly I have a gk and two pp and I'm pretty damn confident I can get a full playset through drafting and pve alone within 3 weeks. If I'm drafting free 3 times a week I'm gonna get good and go infinite probably even make to many boosters which I can trade for singles and this isn't even counting the other perks like collector

EdwardBishop
06-07-2013, 01:19 PM
To me? Very little. I wouldn't take a complete playset of every card for life if someone gave it to me. It would probably ruin the game for me as I enjoy the chase of trying to get them all. :)

This is the exact same reason I didn't go there even though I could have afforded it... as a matter of experience I've learned that after I collect a complete set of a TCG (especially a digital free to play) I rarely play often until a new set comes out... since I enjoy working to unlock new things

I probably *have* a PvP playset between the tiers I did get (Collectors & DungeonCrawler) but I'm going to crack them over time via drafts and such), but am really looking forward to using those PvE cards to dungeoneer and unlock the full set of PvE!

Fireblast
06-07-2013, 01:28 PM
I agree with Kami, what's fun is to play, not to chase.
When I played WOWTCG I just bought playsets when a new expansion was released so I didn't have to worry/proxy for deckbuilding.

I'm more into constructed than limited tho.

~

stiii
06-07-2013, 01:32 PM
Only the PvP cards. PvE cards don't come in packs.

This is true, it will be interesting to see how pve stuff compares to pvp on prices

Krenos
06-07-2013, 01:34 PM
Another add: I don't care about finding cards in boosters. I tend to be a constructed player when it comes to magic and tend to just get what cards I need. I'd try out the PvE side without using the playsets to see what the experience is like, but for PvP having all the cards from the get go is a great thing.

Ill take your packs if you don't want them, I'm trying to build 4 full sets for me and my friends...

ForgedSol
06-07-2013, 02:00 PM
Oh sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. That was meant to be read as I don't feel like opening packs is a necessary part of the experience of acquiring cards for me. Some people really love that. The process of getting cards doesn't matter so much to me as long as I get them. That doesn't mean I'm going to throw away my boosters. Those are going towards drafting or trading.

whythelastman
06-07-2013, 03:14 PM
Honestly I have a gk and two pp and I'm pretty damn confident I can get a full playset through drafting and pve alone within 3 weeks. If I'm drafting free 3 times a week I'm gonna get good and go infinite probably even make to many boosters which I can trade for singles and this isn't even counting the other perks like collector

Maybe a PvP playset, but PvE is still up in the air--we don't know how tough it will be to progress through 40 dungeons + raids, and which parts of them will give PvE cards as rewards. I'd imagine a playset of some legendary cards dropped only during high-end raids will be harder to come by than usual. I remember it was mentioned that PvE will be 100+ hours of gameplay.

But best of luck--3 drafts a week sounds amazing!

TheWrathofShane
06-07-2013, 03:24 PM
If this game is anything like MTGO.
The common cards 5 cents.
The uncommon 5 cents.
Chase uncommon can be up to 5 dollars depending on supply.
Chase rares = very expensive.
"Junk" rares (can be good, but not used in tournaments) 5 cents to 1 dollar.

Deathfog
06-07-2013, 08:24 PM
In 5 years, probably $3000 as a baseline assuming they go out of print and Hex grows to become one of the great pillars of TwitchTV.