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Grim
06-06-2013, 08:27 PM
The most recent Data Editor Paradise (http://hextcg.com/data-editor-paradise/) post while bringing in a lot of really awesome features also left me very nervous about the potential ramifications of tournament play.

I love all of the easily accessible features of the deck editor. Seeing win/loss ratios and percentages for your own decks, being able to sort all of your cards, all of the issues with the textile format being alleviated are absolutely fantastic and just some of the benefits of an online TCG!

Having said that, I most definitely do NOT want my opponents to know my builds and to have my entire deck be displayed to them whenever they like. Whatever my opponent can decipher from my deck during our match is plenty enough regardless of whether the game was a win or a loss.

Some of the same issues came up during World Series Poker and one of the most talented Texas Holdem players Doyle Brunson had very similar reservations despite winning ten bracelets over the course of his career.

Yea yea.... this isn't the World Series, I get it... The principals however are the same. In PvP, this is a skill based game with multiple layers of strategy that start with deck building and continuing throughout every decision made during every turn. Why should any players deck that's been crafted from dozens/hundreds of games be available to others without the owners consent?

Maybe I am alone in this but this actually makes me upset. Deck building is obviously a huge part of this game and making that information available without the deck owners permission is in my opinion completely the wrong move.

Thoughts?

Avaian
06-06-2013, 08:29 PM
They would release the decks after the tournament, and by then people could piece together your deck by going through your past games.

DjiN
06-06-2013, 08:30 PM
I doubt you will be able to check others card collections in any way. They will be totally private except for the cards going into the auction house. Your decks will be save.

Grim
06-06-2013, 08:34 PM
I get that but my argument remains that short of FRAPSing games or recording games to see every card being used there is no need to make it easy. At the very least if people want to spend the time and decipher what every card is in someone else s deck from watching the replays of their games and spending their own time doing it... fine. Clicking a button and downloading someone else s deck is just lazy and rewards bad players with having half of the work already done for them

You gotta earn it :)

TheProphet
06-06-2013, 09:03 PM
top 8 decks are released in yougioh tournaments. and bad players copy the decks but lack the skill to catch up to the great players who have moved on to other decks. i respect your opinion and spectating should be optionial and deck list released after the tournament

Malicus
06-06-2013, 09:23 PM
If you submit a deck for a tournament it shouldn't be private once the tournament ends IMHO, more information makes things more interesting, knowledge of the best deck at a tournament lets you set up to counter that at the next one with the risk that others have moved on.

Imperfect information benefits a smaller group and the reality is deck lists will come out regardless so keep the playing field level.

Also if you lose in a tournament without being able to know what you played against makes it harder to improve

mmimzie
06-06-2013, 09:58 PM
Real pros have more than one deck and mixi t up. So when a big tournament hits they choose which they truely think is best. Additionally, many of the winning decks of these big tournaments dont come from no where, and most likely have been played quite abit through out the season.

I remember last i played magic. i had a white black control deck with baneslayer and nighthawk, i made jacerator before the jerk had a chance to go on live stream and give it such a lame name, and i creased a can trip deck all off which did quite well and everyone even dispite the fact that i made them almost in complete isolation, i ended up seeing in that MTG world tournament v.v

EDit: so being a pro deck builder is great for the smaller tournaments leading up to the big one because the meta is so fresh and chaotic, and your deck building skill lets you reach into the swirling soup of good and bad cards and pull out a beautiful gem before anyone else. SO all the small tournaments are yours.

The big tournament however.... the chaotic swarm as settle all the lack luster rares/uncommons/commons have all settled and the vast majority of the gem have been discovered and reproduced in mass. Here is where skill and luck live. You have to be great knowing when and where to mull, play the right card, and when you can take a punch to win because almost all of the surprises are gone. The new deck that are found here are usually deck that just beat the meta and not deck that are necessarily the best deck in the meta as they'd probably lose to some of the lesser popular decks in the current meta.

So in short it really doesn't matter if some one sees your deck just learn to adapt. Otherwise you might hold onto that nuke, and by the time you want to use it the whole world can build one in their sleep, and then they have more practice with the deck than you.

jaxsonbateman
06-06-2013, 10:06 PM
I can't think of the last time someone placed highly in a decent MTG tournament and didn't have their decklist published.

maniza
06-06-2013, 10:19 PM
yea its not like i can go into your deck editor and see what you are goin to play, if you win in a high profile tournament you will get published its just how it is

Mr.Funsocks
06-06-2013, 10:35 PM
And this, my friends, is why I've always hated competition. Such an icky attitude.

It's not a big secret, and anyone could figure it out in like 10 minutes and publish it based on replays. Just accept it and support the community's interest.

jaxsonbateman
06-06-2013, 10:50 PM
Well the thing is, until a deck establishes itself as a high tier deck, even if it's getting recorded people might not pay too much attention to it. It usually takes a few wins until someone does (or someone being observant, looking at most of the top placings, and seeing if any particular decks catch their eye). After it wins a high level event or two, it might become a high tier deck. And at that point, people will learn what cards are generally included in the deck. At that point, they'll know roughly what's in the deck even without looking at a decklist.

Actually, that's pretty much the reason why competitive players rarely touch a card like Telepathy - they give up a card to know exactly what the opponent has, when they could not give up a card and still know roughly what the opponent has.

Fireblast
06-06-2013, 10:56 PM
A deck is no more private after a tournament

Either you won and everyone knows your decklist, either you lost and nobody cares about it

~

mmimzie
06-06-2013, 11:02 PM
Usually noobs to TCg always want to gravitate toward aggro. I know i did. Those will be popular and everywhere. they are so easy and usually pretty cheap to build as many start on the shoulders of commons wit ha few rares, and they dont really need any single setof cards to be effective. So early on those will be very popular. Once alot of folks have thier judgments and extinctions control and mid ranges will pop up. Then combo decks will pop up as they usualy take more thought to get all the pieces to work properly.

jaxsonbateman
06-06-2013, 11:21 PM
To be fair, a lot of pros play aggro too. I don't know if it still is, but until late last year Jund midrange was one of the premiere modern decks (and even took out the player's championship I believe), and I'd be surprised if it still wasn't given that modern doesn't change too much with the release of individual sets.

Grim
06-07-2013, 02:14 AM
And this, my friends, is why I've always hated competition. Such an icky attitude.

It's not a big secret, and anyone could figure it out in like 10 minutes and publish it based on replays. Just accept it and support the community's interest.


In PvE mode I am all for community banding together to overcome raid bosses and have fun. The "icky attitude" is there for tournament play where half the fun is building your decks and coming up with new and original mechanics. Why would I want some joker that has no idea how to build a deck taking mine and running with it. It's called competition, try it some time, this isn't communism :)

djlowballer
06-07-2013, 03:02 AM
I don't see the point. All competitive TCGs post winning decklists for everybody to see. Its highly doubtful your decks are going to differ drastically from 99% of other players. Posting winning decks is actually beneficial as it helps you improve your deckbuilding skill.

bogatog
06-07-2013, 03:11 AM
In PvE mode I am all for community banding together to overcome raid bosses and have fun. The "icky attitude" is there for tournament play where half the fun is building your decks and coming up with new and original mechanics. Why would I want some joker that has no idea how to build a deck taking mine and running with it. It's called competition, try it some time, this isn't communism :)

If he is that bad at building the deck, chances are he won't be able to play it worth a damn either. As others have said, decklists get published in all major tournaments anyway and it helps to define the meta as well as give crafty deckbuilders ( hint hint, this is you according to your posts) the chance to tweak a deck or create a new counter-deck that dominates the known powerful decks.