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View Full Version : Duels where you can place a Bet



Blitz1775
06-07-2013, 12:06 AM
Something I always had fun doing as a sort of for fun thing was placing cards up for bets on duels (can include 2v2 etc). I was wondering what people thought of having it as an option where you could do something similar. Obviously it's a high stakes - high reward scenario, but it could also be used as a way for settling disputes among people/guilds etc. Just wondering what do you guys think about it?

jaxsonbateman
06-07-2013, 12:21 AM
Might be fun, but even if they don't implement it surely you could set it up with someone in general - bet them whatever cards that you'll beat them in a duel, have the duel, then trade cards either way. Of course, it then requires both players to be honorable and keep their word, but that would also happen in the real world. :-3

Derium
06-07-2013, 12:24 AM
It can be a grey area too. Remember when MTG had ante? They had to scrap that because it was gambling.

ForgedSol
06-07-2013, 12:30 AM
It can be a grey area too. Remember when MTG had ante? They had to scrap that because it was gambling.

Is that why? I assumed they stopped it just because people hated it. Isn't Keep Defense essentially the same thing as an Honor (Bet) Duel? (It should definitely be called an Honor Duel.)

Punk
06-07-2013, 12:32 AM
MTGO also gets around this with 2 person tournaments of specific formats and the entry fee is 2 tickets. Prize payout is 1 pack (value of 4 tickets). They could do a 1 Platinum entry with a payout of 1 Pack or something along those lines.

In almost all cases that you can manually set how much you want to wager, they find this to be gambling.

tgm0112
06-07-2013, 12:32 AM
I really like this notion. An open format for players to choose the stakes... it has great potential.

Derium
06-07-2013, 12:34 AM
Just like Punk said, as long as you "pay in", and there is a "prize" for the win. Then you're fine. It's just a heads up tournament. But if you both settle on a price, wager it and winner takes the money paid in, then it's gambling. It's a really stupid set of rules.

Derium
06-07-2013, 12:37 AM
Is that why? I assumed they stopped it just because people hated it. Isn't Keep Defense essentially the same thing as an Honor (Bet) Duel? (It should definitely be called an Honor Duel.)

it was very unpopular, that's for sure. But they officially scrapped it once tournaments started happening. It would have been a nightmare for them to learn about each district and some stores would have had to apply for gaming licenses to run an MTG event. Yet paying in money, and winning store credit isn't gambling? Seriously, as I said in my previous post. Really stupid set of laws.

Blitz1775
06-07-2013, 12:50 AM
Well in terms of the betting usually for house rules it involved putting a Rare card that the other party would accept.

mudkip
06-07-2013, 01:22 AM
It can be a grey area too. Remember when MTG had ante? They had to scrap that because it was gambling.

That was my first thought too.

Could it happen with Gold or Plat?

Derium
06-07-2013, 01:24 AM
That was my first thought too.

Could it happen with Gold or Plat?

If gold can not be bought or sold for actual $. I could see a system set up like that easily. Because nothing of taxable value is gained or lost. But I'm just guessing =/

Zomnivore
06-07-2013, 01:29 AM
online gambling laws are pretty tight

Derium
06-07-2013, 01:33 AM
CCGs need to be classified by law as a game of "skill", not "luck". however, it wasn't until just a few years ago Poker was classified as skill. If a multi-billion dollar game that's been Americas backbone in gaming took hundreds of years. Good luck to us "nerds".

Of course that's only step one of not tying us in with gamblers in the eyes of the law.

mudkip
06-07-2013, 01:42 AM
online gambling laws are pretty tight

There's a "your mum" joke in that.

TZHX
06-07-2013, 01:42 AM
I'll put up a Black Tiger vs. anything you've got.

Blitz1775
06-07-2013, 01:53 AM
Ok uncle sam can tax us I will give them a % of my cards (cards put for ante have a missing block of them). Don't really know what they are going to do with a % of a card, but have at it. Though I guess they will need to have an account that the % of a card goes to them.

wildcard
06-07-2013, 02:00 AM
Laws differ by state, but in the US the basis of the analysis starts with: gambling = consideration + prize + chance. Consideration is something of value that you pay to play, and can be as "insignificant" as time and emotional investment (filling out a free entry form). Prize is anything of value to someone, and the courts are not tricked by intermediate "non-cash credits" or that assets are digital, or that CZE isn't providing the real money AH yet, etc. Chance is a bit tricky because as Derium said, some legislation has been passed that alter the common law rules. So as a threshold issue, everything discussed so far is a form of gambling.

However, that means you probably gamble every day, or at least a mediocre lawyer could argue that you do. What protects you (apart from the impracticality of enforcement) are the safe harbor laws in your locale that protect certain categories of activity. Charity bingo with prizes under $1000, games played in a private home with under 10 people, etc. all defined at the state or lower level. That's fine for the 20th century, but clearly not for the 21st.

I'm sure CZE will consult with attorneys to navigate the law, but it gets doubly complex when you mix in international competitions. The path of least resistance is to get some US recognition as a sport of skill, and put a disclaimer up for our international friends. (CZE just wants to avoid gov't sanctions, they don't have to worry about what individual users are doing with their internet access)

Zagar
06-07-2013, 02:04 AM
casey go to bed.

Zomnivore
06-07-2013, 02:08 AM
There's a "your mum" joke in that.

Wots at? I hear its the oppsit is where the funins.


Hopefully online gambling laws get fleshed out and the industries can carve a wider niche but thats still a fairly grey area of law n' lots of money to be selfishly made by states off their gamblin poor.