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Oaka23
06-07-2013, 02:17 AM
I don't know if anyone's thought of this, and definitely haven't seen it in any previews, but would it be possible for there to be a system in place where each individual deck produces a copy-pasteable code that, when entered into the deck builder, would automatically assemble the deck (assuming you have the cards available - otherwise it could put in what you do have and you'd fill in the rest). ArenaNet used this for sharing character builds to great effect in the first Guild Wars, and something like this would be incredibly helpful. I know there's been mention of being able to put a deck into the guild bank for temporary use or something similar to that but it would still be a help to share with friends or on forums, instead of having to write and send a full deck list.

Ozmono
06-07-2013, 02:20 AM
Here is a hex db
http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/decks.php
You could save your decks their than share the url.

Oaka23
06-07-2013, 02:22 AM
That's barely different than transcribing a deck list for someone. I'm talking about something that you plug into the game and it builds the deck for you. Of course, Crypto could just work with potion to implement using their generated codes in the game...

Bossett
06-07-2013, 02:24 AM
I wonder if the Deck Builder will be available as a web page - that would be pretty awesome, like the WoW Armory or NW Gateway.

Oaka23
06-07-2013, 02:25 AM
That would work too, but if something like that isn't in development, it'd probably be more work to do than just a deck code generator.

Ozmono
06-07-2013, 02:26 AM
Oh, sorry. Misunderstood completely. If I understand right, you are talking about AI building decks for you? If so, it needs to be said that it is hard to make actual AI that is artificial intelligence. The intelligence part. They are making raid bosses and pve so some of the work will be done anyway but this sounds like a step further.

Bossett
06-07-2013, 02:28 AM
It would be very cool if the Deck Builder (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24916) could do that sort of thing (import/export/display on web) - and with the right modelling tools, you may not have the AI build a deck, but you may be able to get a very good idea of effectiveness.

Oaka23
06-07-2013, 02:30 AM
@ Ozmono
No no no, I mean this:

You build a deck. You can then click a button to generate a static code. You copy paste that to a forum or whatever, and anyone can put that code into their own deck building screen, and the game builds that deck for them.

Ozmono
06-07-2013, 02:31 AM
@ Ozmono
No no no, I mean this:

You build a deck. You can then click a button to generate a static code. You copy paste that to a forum or whatever, and anyone can put that code into their own deck building screen, and the game builds that deck for them.
Oh, I see. Yeah that's cool. Good idea.

Ryoma_Echizen
06-07-2013, 02:37 AM
+1 to this idea. Easy to implement and useful feature.

benczi
06-07-2013, 03:45 AM
For deck-building / managing I highly recommend the features from: http://deckbox.org.

panzer
06-07-2013, 03:59 AM
You build a deck. You can then click a button to generate a static code. You copy paste that to a forum or whatever, and anyone can put that code into their own deck building screen, and the game builds that deck for them.


+2, just like sharing builds in MMOs. CZE WE NEED THIS!!!!

Oaka23
06-07-2013, 04:00 AM
@benczi
Link's dead for me, and still wouldn't be what I'm talking about. I'm talking about something in-game.

benczi
06-07-2013, 04:05 AM
@benczi
Link's dead for me, and still wouldn't be what I'm talking about. I'm talking about something in-game.

yeah, small mistake there, correct link is http://deckbox.org/

and just so there is no misunderstanding, I also want these features to be available in game as well as out of the but somehow integrated with game, so that if I edit it in the website, I have it available in the game when I get home to play some.

Oaka23
06-07-2013, 04:58 AM
Well Cory apparently mentioned at some point the possibility of offline deck management on tablets, so it's possible something may be on the site for that too I guess.

zifster
06-07-2013, 05:10 AM
I feel like some way of sharing decklists is almost certainly in the cards (har har) It's an obvious feature that I can't imagine won't be part of deck management. Especially when they have lines like this in the last update.

"
More to the point, think about all the work coverage guys like us did for tournaments to bring you decklists, metagame breakdowns, and more. When Cryptozoic provides tournament results and decklists to HEX fans everywhere, collecting registered decklists for an event becomes easy with tournament entries done online, players can get all of that data almost instantaneously. Interested in trying out the biggest deck? Go for it! The data that we work to provide you at live events is brought to you easier, faster, and there’s more of it too!
"

Oaka23
06-07-2013, 05:14 AM
If they had a code system in the works they'd probably have mentioned that directly. That just sounds like they're saying they don't need to waste time going through and typing up decklists as it can be gathered by the game automatically.

Oaka23
06-07-2013, 06:42 AM
Bumping to keep this where CZE might see it.

Thallium45
06-07-2013, 06:44 AM
+1 to this for sure

zifster
06-07-2013, 06:45 AM
If they had a code system in the works they'd probably have mentioned that directly. That just sounds like they're saying they don't need to waste time going through and typing up decklists as it can be gathered by the game automatically.

Yeah I'm not saying they have officially declared deck link functionality exactly as specified here, but what they are talking about shows to me that they know people will want to share decklists and will probably make that easy to do one way or another is all.

jai151
06-07-2013, 06:46 AM
I had a half second of "Oh great, no one will build decks with this out."

But then I realized people would just print out decklists anyway. So yeah, I back it.

Oaka23
06-07-2013, 06:47 AM
Yeah it wouldn't really affect the net decking numbers as people are going to do that anyway. It's more a quality of life thing for anyone that wants to share a deck quickly and easily.

jai151
06-07-2013, 06:53 AM
Yeah it wouldn't really affect the net decking numbers as people are going to do that anyway. It's more a quality of life thing for anyone that wants to share a deck quickly and easily.

Yeah, exactly.

I love to build decks, but I do my best deckcrafting when I can have someone keeping a check on my natural tendency for insanity =) So once I got past the moment of snobbishness I realized I'd use the hell out of this if it were in

houjix
06-07-2013, 06:57 AM
It sounds like a good idea. Might be a small issue with each card being unique because of experience and achievements. There might be a little managing after auto building the deck to make sure the right copy of your card is in the deck. They could alleviate that some by letting us tag 4 copies of a card as "favorites", meaning those 4 will be auto chosen if they use an auto build feature like this.

Oaka23
06-07-2013, 06:58 AM
Or just auto-pick whichever are further along in terms of achievements/exp. In theory if someone really cared about getting the foil/extended art versions they'd only have 4 cards max that would even have either.

Oaka23
06-07-2013, 09:42 AM
Rebump for visibility. I probably won't be able to be here for the stream so if anybody that likes this idea wants to, it'd be cool if they brought it up during it.

MugenMusou
06-07-2013, 09:47 AM
Great idea. +1.

Turtlewing
06-07-2013, 09:51 AM
@ Ozmono
No no no, I mean this:

You build a deck. You can then click a button to generate a static code. You copy paste that to a forum or whatever, and anyone can put that code into their own deck building screen, and the game builds that deck for them.

That should be possible, but it's not as much of a no brainer as you might expect.

The main fly in the ointment is that Hex cards are unique, so to generate this code you'll need to "generalize" the deck so that id doesn't try to assemble the deck out of your cards on the other end and fail because they have different copies of everything.

Oaka23
06-08-2013, 12:04 PM
I don't think that'd be as big of a problem as you'd think. Yes, each card a player has is technically a unique entity with various tracked stats, but I'm sure there's still an id linked to the base version of a card...there pretty much has to be.

Bargle
06-08-2013, 12:15 PM
I don't think that'd be as big of a problem as you'd think. Yes, each card a player has is technically a unique entity with various tracked stats, but I'm sure there's still an id linked to the base version of a card...there pretty much has to be.

For sure...I'd imagine the deck editor would be a huge PITA to program without base card IDs.

+1 on the original idea. Deck-sharing codes would be an awesome feature, if only as a time saving/ease of use feature, as people will be sharing deck lists regardless of whether or not sharing gets implemented in the game engine.

SamCube
06-08-2013, 12:59 PM
Amazing idea. If we want to take the full advantages of the digital world thats one to not miss at all. Almost instantly you could play any deck that you got the code (and cards). Loosing less time with preparation and more playing I think it's one of the objectives of HEX.
I will add also a share social button. Tweet your deck, or paste it on facebook. Things like that. I would love to see something as PS4 did with streaming and post videos on youtube too (in the long run).

Nsmash
06-08-2013, 01:46 PM
This is a great idea, but it's also rather impractical to implement because of the large number of variables.

The code needs to represent every card in the deck, so we're looking at 60 individual code segments within the string, more if someone decides to make a 250 card deck. Additionally, each individual segment has to be able to represent any of the 350 cards in the initial set, and still leave room to grow as cards are added in future sets. Assuming CZE sticks to 3 sets per year, and every set is 350 cards, that's 1050 unique cards per year. This is discounting gems, assuming no reprints, and counting PvP cards only.

<Mathy bit>
An alphanumeric code with uppercase and lowercase letters has 62 different characters (26 letters *2 + 10 numbers). A 3 digit code nets us 238,328 possibilities, or ~226 years worth of unique cards. (for comparison, 2 digits would only get us 3844 combinations, not enough for the lifecycle of Hex) A 60 card deck would need 60 of these 3 digit segments, requiring 180 characters in the string. This number goes up as people make larger decks, which, let's face it, everyone is going to do at some point.
</Mathy bit>

Now, 180 characters is just fine for the back end, and I'm guessing CZE is using a method like this to handle saved deck-lists. But it's a bit unwieldy to copy-paste from the Internet into a deck editor. Guild Wars 1's build templates were only a couple dozen characters long. The large variable count in a TCG makes this feature less convenient than it would seem.

Plaga
06-08-2013, 02:42 PM
CZE's side is easy enough to do, they can let you check your deck as "public" in your deck editor and give you a "short" url like http://www.hextcg.com/users/<username>/decks/<deck id> to share it (deck id can be the name of the deck or a short hash to prevent funny urls).

ossuary
06-08-2013, 03:06 PM
+1 on this from me as well.

I'd love to see a way to easily share a deck that other people could then easily port into their own game to mess around with (assuming again that they have the necessary cards).

dogmod
06-08-2013, 04:05 PM
This is a great idea, but it's also rather impractical to implement because of the large number of variables.

The code needs to represent every card in the deck, so we're looking at 60 individual code segments within the string, more if someone decides to make a 250 card deck. Additionally, each individual segment has to be able to represent any of the 350 cards in the initial set, and still leave room to grow as cards are added in future sets. Assuming CZE sticks to 3 sets per year, and every set is 350 cards, that's 1050 unique cards per year. This is discounting gems, assuming no reprints, and counting PvP cards only.

<Mathy bit>
An alphanumeric code with uppercase and lowercase letters has 62 different characters (26 letters *2 + 10 numbers). A 3 digit code nets us 238,328 possibilities, or ~226 years worth of unique cards. (for comparison, 2 digits would only get us 3844 combinations, not enough for the lifecycle of Hex) A 60 card deck would need 60 of these 3 digit segments, requiring 180 characters in the string. This number goes up as people make larger decks, which, let's face it, everyone is going to do at some point.
</Mathy bit>

Now, 180 characters is just fine for the back end, and I'm guessing CZE is using a method like this to handle saved deck-lists. But it's a bit unwieldy to copy-paste from the Internet into a deck editor. Guild Wars 1's build templates were only a couple dozen characters long. The large variable count in a TCG makes this feature less convenient than it would seem.

A lot of assumptions about all of the cards in a deck being unique etc... But the fact is they could just start from 1 and go forward and any time someone created a new deck and wanted to share it they could link it to the next # in line for sharing. Also cool to see that you created the 100,000 deck to be shared ever

ramseytheory
06-08-2013, 04:33 PM
This is a great idea, but it's also rather impractical to implement because of the large number of variables.

The code needs to represent every card in the deck, so we're looking at 60 individual code segments within the string, more if someone decides to make a 250 card deck. Additionally, each individual segment has to be able to represent any of the 350 cards in the initial set, and still leave room to grow as cards are added in future sets. Assuming CZE sticks to 3 sets per year, and every set is 350 cards, that's 1050 unique cards per year. This is discounting gems, assuming no reprints, and counting PvP cards only.

<Mathy bit>
An alphanumeric code with uppercase and lowercase letters has 62 different characters (26 letters *2 + 10 numbers). A 3 digit code nets us 238,328 possibilities, or ~226 years worth of unique cards. (for comparison, 2 digits would only get us 3844 combinations, not enough for the lifecycle of Hex) A 60 card deck would need 60 of these 3 digit segments, requiring 180 characters in the string. This number goes up as people make larger decks, which, let's face it, everyone is going to do at some point.
</Mathy bit>

Now, 180 characters is just fine for the back end, and I'm guessing CZE is using a method like this to handle saved deck-lists. But it's a bit unwieldy to copy-paste from the Internet into a deck editor. Guild Wars 1's build templates were only a couple dozen characters long. The large variable count in a TCG makes this feature less convenient than it would seem.

In practice, though, there aren't going to be many highlander decks out there. The vast majority of decks will have a large number of basic resources and 2-4 copies of every other card, and that can be exploited to make the code manageably short for the normal use case. If I were doing this (as an amateur), I'd be looking at a format like this:

[Deck size] | [Resources] | [Other cards]

Deck size: 1 or 2 bytes. The first bit is either 0 or 1. If it's 0, the deck has 60 cards in and the second byte isn't present. If it's 1, the second byte is present and the remaining 15 bits contain the deck size.

Resources: Five bytes. Each byte contains the number of basic resources for the corresponding shard.

Other cards: Three bytes per card. The first two bytes contain the card ID, the last one contains the number of copies of that card in the deck. (I'm leaving room for 256 copies of a single card in case of relentless rats or similar.)

This scheme encodes the Shin'hare deck (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25197) that's going round in 39 bytes - one for the number of cards, five for the basic resources, and 11*3 = 33 for the remaining cards. If you want to encode that using only alphanumeric characters with a few symbols thrown in, you'll get about 6 bits of information per character, so the deck is encoded in 52 characters. Of course, there's going to be a few long stretches of zeroes, so you could get even better results by running the data through a compression algorithm before turning it into the deck code - I wouldn't be surprised if the final code were closer to half that length.

ShaolinRaven
06-08-2013, 04:43 PM
I think we run into problems with the idea because every card has a unique identifier. So for all intents and purposes each card is an unique item in the system. The code would have to make sure it wasn't looking for your specific cards in your specific deck with all their individual IDs, which is just one more thing that Crypto would have to code around. Because the way you have it now if you put in your deck list all the identifiers would be specific to your version of those cards.

Now if Crypto wanted to take the time to do all that, sure, go for it. But I would not expect something like that for a while.

Also it is not a feature I would personally use since I like to come up with my own deck concoctions and hate net decking myself, but I know deck lists will get printed/copied anyway so I wouldn't mind a shared deck system like this since I know others who would use it.

Bossett
06-08-2013, 04:46 PM
Can't delete posts - so here's a picture of a rabbit:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/6nyojpr9o4f7eav/rabbit-2.png

ShaolinRaven
06-08-2013, 04:51 PM
(Off topic grammar nazi hat)

*intents

For all intents and purposes.

(/Off topic grammar nazi hat)

I'll edit that, usually I'm better with catching my typos.

Turtlewing
06-08-2013, 05:04 PM
Or you could just use the deck ID from the database as the code and have the "load deck" routine look up the card name for every card in that deck and assemble a copy of it from your collection when it's given a deck ID for a deck you don't own.

Then the code would just be a GUID.

Only down side is third party deck editors can't use it, and there may be security concerns related to sharing deck ID's that I'm too lazy to think of.

ramseytheory
06-08-2013, 05:39 PM
I think we run into problems with the idea because every card has a unique identifier. So for all intents and purposes each card is an unique item in the system. The code would have to make sure it wasn't looking for your specific cards in your specific deck with all their individual IDs, which is just one more thing that Crypto would have to code around. Because the way you have it now if you put in your deck list all the identifiers would be specific to your version of those cards.

Now if Crypto wanted to take the time to do all that, sure, go for it. But I would not expect something like that for a while.

Also it is not a feature I would personally use since I like to come up with my own deck concoctions and hate net decking myself, but I know deck lists will get printed/copied anyway so I wouldn't mind a shared deck system like this since I know others who would use it.

When I said the card ID, I meant an identifier unique to the card type, not the specific card. For example, if someone has a deck with four Burns in it, there's no need to include include which specific copies of the Burn card they are in the deck code - no-one entering the code is going to have those specific copies anyway. Just record that there are four Burns in the deck, and then when someone enters the code have the deck builder take the four highest-level Burns from their card library. Maybe add an option to "favorite" cards so that people can customise which Burns get taken, but even that's probably unnecessary.


Only down side is third party deck editors can't use it, and there may be security concerns related to sharing deck ID's that I'm too lazy to think of.

The main danger I can think of would be someone working out how to find the deck IDs for an arbitrary user. With that, you could look someone up before a major tournament and see what deck they were bringing.

TheBokononist
06-08-2013, 05:45 PM
+1 Love this idea and I hope it is implemented!

Selix
06-08-2013, 05:48 PM
+1 to this. I would like to see it mirror GW functionality as close as possible to. Being able to copy the code into my own client then make slight modifications is important (as opposed to not having all of the cards so it doesn't let me load the code)

DjiN
06-08-2013, 05:50 PM
+1

Facilier
06-08-2013, 05:56 PM
In practice, though, there aren't going to be many highlander decks out there.

Except there will be a dedicated format of hardcore dungeons which is specifically Highlander decks and people will want to know how to beat them.

I don't think I am lazy enough to need this feature, or trusting enough to not them spend the time double-checking it anyway to make sure somebody didn't change a digit to include like 4 Goblin Cooking Pots to troll people.

BenRGamer
06-08-2013, 06:48 PM
I believe you can do something like this in guilds--you could even use that deck if you don't have the cards, but only against guildmates.

Boozecluez
06-08-2013, 07:00 PM
Awesome Idea mate , +1

Oaka23
06-10-2013, 01:47 AM
Bumping to keep visible, hoping to get a word from CZE on this.

Typhon
06-10-2013, 06:11 AM
The problem with this is that there is no currently unique identifier (well; except for the card name ... and hopefully that get wierd with a "________" card name (from Magic Unhinged (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Discussion.aspx?recentpage=2&multiverseid=74252)) where no one could ever agree on how many underscores it was. I have a question out to CZE about getting unique identifiers for the base card so that all the websites can develop against a standard; but we will see.

I know HEXRealms.com (http://www.hexrealms.com) will have the [cards] and [deck] BBCode done this week; but we'll be running off cardname to start.

Stok3d
06-10-2013, 06:18 AM
Great idea. Would make sharing decks easy

Ju66ernaut
06-10-2013, 06:23 AM
+1 Mind. Blown.

Malicus
06-10-2013, 06:27 AM
Would be cool, instead of trying to explain your deck to a friend you simply shoot them a copy and you can discuss it directly.