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Swaytje
06-12-2013, 03:13 AM
Heya,

I'm completely new to TCG's, well not a 100% i guess, i have played some magic the gathering: duels of the planeswalker.. though only a tiny bit, and that's hardly a full version TCG I think.
Now I wanna get pretty serious and play competitively in HEX. Obviously I'd be pretty bad at it if I'd start playing like this, and thus I want to learn, I wanna get better.

What do you guys advice me to do, what do you advice me to study? Is there a way for me to get better in the coming months before HEX releases without actually playing anything, just studying video's/guides/articles? And if so, what video's/guides/articles do you recommend?

Cheers,
Swaytje

Random360
06-12-2013, 03:24 AM
I'd say your best bet is to read articles about deck building in magic, the two games will be similar enough in that regard.

Verdant
06-12-2013, 03:27 AM
Aside from videos and guides you can try to theorycraft some decks and publish them here for discussion. There are already quite a few people who are willing to help a fellow HEXians polish their ideas. At the moment it's not that ideal as we haven't seen majority of the cards, but... well... practice makes perfect.

Links for card databases are in one of the sticky threads.

noisexkillua
06-12-2013, 03:37 AM
Try some deck building (http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/) and watching developers demo on game plays. (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24061) Good luck :)

Justinkp
06-12-2013, 03:46 AM
I'm in pretty much the same situation, I played Magic a little bit in '95, '96 (BTW are the cards from back then worth anything? The dark, Ice Age, bought a couple boosters of Arabian nights) but despite buying a fair number of cards and enjoying it gave it up as none of my friends played.

Since getting into hex and simultaneously starting to sell magic cards at my comic shop I've been trying to learn a bit about it. I don't know enough to know which articles I've read are good, I'd search for basic deck building and drafting articles and learn basic concepts like mana/resource curve and all of the other lingo. Luckily as others said the game at its base is pretty similar to magic although hex will be able to do very interesting things due to the digital nature of the game.

Both magic and another site I saw allow you to practice drafting with the second site allowing you to build a deck, save it and analyze it. It also had an option for solitaire play but that didn't work for me. It should be easy to find this site but if you have trouble I'll find the URL.

I'd also be interested in specific links to the best articles on deck building, drafting, strategy etc. I don't know enough to judge what I read who h is a situation many people new to TCGs will find themselves in and which the more experienced members of the community can help with.

Justin

KingBlackstone
06-12-2013, 03:46 AM
I'd say your best bet is to read articles about deck building in magic, the two games are nigh identical.

Fixed

Rapkannibale
06-12-2013, 03:47 AM
Also if you want to learn about drafting there are a lot of videos on Magic the Gathering drafting on Youtube. A lot of the same concepts with drafting will apply to Hex.

Justinkp
06-12-2013, 03:56 AM
Try some deck building (http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/) and watching developers demo on game plays. (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24061) Good luck :)

How useful is to try deck building when we don't have s full set (not sure what percentage of cards for set 1 have been revealed). I honestly don't know but I'm afraid those of you who are magic veterans may have moved on to deck building in hex with incomplete information when newbies may be better off learning from magic sources.

So what do people think, are beginners better off trying to learn deck building and strategy through the limited information available since although limited its precisely what we're trying to learn or are beginners better off learning from the far larger amount of magic information even though this info will not be exactly equivalent to hex?

Justin

wallofomens
06-12-2013, 04:09 AM
Hey there, Swaytje! If you go to this thread (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24969), you'll find a ton of blogs/articles on HEX that'll help you become better at it. Also, my channel (youtube.com/redichaos) has a bunch of videos for newer players, so you might find those useful.

Indormi
06-12-2013, 04:16 AM
If you are completly knew to TCG I would buy Duels of the Planeswalker to get a quick view and get comfortable with the mechanics. The new one is coming in 2 weeks or so and in theory it has a "sealed campaing" that may turn great to start learning deckbuilding. In addition the base game is not expensive(10 euros) just dont get any DLC as they are a theft,

Icepick
06-12-2013, 04:41 AM
As with most things in life, you can learn a lot reading about a subject, but actual experience is always going to be a lot better. If you want to get straight into Hex with at least *some* actual experience, I'd suggest one of the other digital TCG's you can check out. Obviously Hex is very similar to MtG, so that would probably be your best bet, though trying out some others certainly couldn't hurt either.

AstaSyneri
06-12-2013, 05:56 AM
In my opinion any TCG newcomers have two options in Hex.


If you want to play competitively you have to go the hard way: Learn the cards, get a deck, and then play the game. A Lot. Then join a guild that wants to play high-level PvP.
Take a much more relaxed route: Play PvE until you have grasp of the mechanics, expand your deck(s), then do 1.


Either way expect to spend a little bit of money over the lifespan of the game, which fortunately seems to be a lot more wallet-friendly than MtG.

Mr.Funsocks
06-12-2013, 06:04 AM
Honestly, all the deckbuilding advice in the world is useless without experience actually PLAYING the game. So go play some MtG, either at your local cardshop (someone would probably loan you a deck to play against some people), or digitally with DotP or the old MtG:Shandalar or Manalink game that's abandonware and you can get for free, links are floating around.

MrSeriousBsns
06-12-2013, 06:12 AM
I would agree about getting practical experience with an online TCG (as those normally help you to streamline rules and you don't want to over-complicate your initial experience). Magic the Gathering - Duels of the Plainswalkers 2013 (through Steam or elsewhere) would probably be your best bet for the most up to date experience.

As its also been mentioned by Wall, there are a few of us around who are producing content to help you learn more Hex-specific information. The sticky at the top of the page or our signature links are a great place to start.

Fireblast
06-12-2013, 06:16 AM
Just read MtG stuff, it'll be more thorough and deep than what you can find on HEX.

@Justinkp : The Dark and Arabian Nights could have some card worth money, but only a few.
Just google the cards and check their price (starcitygames), they'd have to be in mint condition too :)

~

Masquerade
06-12-2013, 06:44 AM
Play Magic, you can even go to your local store for drafts. Honestly they're the same game at the core.

DoctorJoe
06-12-2013, 07:44 AM
I'm in pretty much the same situation, I played Magic a little bit in '95, '96 (BTW are the cards from back then worth anything? The dark, Ice Age, bought a couple boosters of Arabian nights)

Yes, though maybe not the ones you expect. A lot of the uncommons/commons are really popular in eternal formats. For example, Swords to Plowshares is worth $3-$4 depending on condition. Several other commons/uncommons are worth a buck or more.

Indormi
06-12-2013, 07:52 AM
I would agree about getting practical experience with an online TCG (as those normally help you to streamline rules and you don't want to over-complicate your initial experience). Magic the Gathering - Duels of the Plainswalkers 2013 (through Steam or elsewhere) would probably be your best bet for the most up to date experience.

As its also been mentioned by Wall, there are a few of us around who are producing content to help you learn more Hex-specific information. The sticky at the top of the page or our signature links are a great place to start.

If you dont want to wait for Duel of the Planeswalker 2014, buy the 2012 edition not the 2013. Decks on 2013 are pretty bad IMO

nearlysober
06-12-2013, 09:41 AM
Some good tips, just also want to point out that if you already backed the game (or if you go for the slacker backer option), you'll be able to start playing in alpha & phase-1 beta where we will likely have copies of all cards available.

This will be a good time to practice & learn Hex specifically before you have to start buying cards or worry about impacting your rating/rank.

Then, when phase-2 beta starts, where you can actually start your collection & stuff will be retained, you'll have some experience already.

Swaytje
06-12-2013, 10:19 AM
Thanks for the tips so far guys!
I've reinstalled the duels of the planeswalkers 2013, and been watching some youtube so far.
And yes, i have backed the game at the champion tier, can't wait till alpha starts!
I also bought Scrolls, though i'm not sure if that's any good as practice, seems pretty different.
Find it pretty entertaining though, and guess it lets you evaluate your hand at least.

Keep them tips coming!

tautologico
06-12-2013, 03:08 PM
If you dont want to wait for Duel of the Planeswalker 2014, buy the 2012 edition not the 2013. Decks on 2013 are pretty bad IMO

I disagree, there are nice decks in 2012 but 2013 has more deck customization (30 unlockable cards instead of 15) and many more options for playing control. 2013 has less decks that are obviously good at aggro (the goblins deck being one exception), but if you dig a little more you'll find plenty of interesting options. 2014 seems to be much more aggro-heavy, with few options for control.

funktion
06-12-2013, 10:39 PM
No matter what anyone tells you, no matter how many articles you read or videos you watch...

Nothing can ever replace experience. At some point the best way to improve is by playing and getting your hands dirty. With that said...
-Don't be afraid to lose, embrace it, acknowledge that it very rarely has anything to do with luck. Figure out what went wrong and learn from it.
-The game isn't over until it's over. Maybe you kept a one resource hand with the hopes you would draw the 2nd by turn 3... turn 5 rolls around and you're still not dead but you haven't drawn it. Who knows what the opponent has or is thinking, you aren't dead until you're dead. The more often you play through a losing situation till the bitter end the better you will be able to understand how to fix it the next time.
-Admit that sometimes you're wrong.
-Don't be afraid to go back to the drawing board, maybe the deck you're using just isn't good, maybe it just isn't the deck for you.
-Experiment, sometimes even though something seems horribly wrong in theory, for whatever reason it works.
-Have fun, the more you enjoy playing competitively whether you win or lose the more open you will be when an opportunity to improve comes along.

Nothing will ever replace good old fashion practice. Many people quote that it takes roughly 2000 hours of practice to become good / relatively competent at something.

On the final note, there are quite a few people putting out content for both the newcomers and the veterans. Don't be afraid to ask us questions, I speak for myself, but I'm always happy to answer a question or two.

Justinkp
06-12-2013, 10:54 PM
Thanks go Doctor Joe and fire blast. I didn't expect them to be worth much but they should all be mint as most have never been played. And I seem to remember having a lot of swords to plowshares...

Luckily I own a comic store that's branching into gaming/magic so may be able to get whatever their retail price is. I know this really isn't the right forum but do game stores usually sell for the prices on star city?

To make this on topic-I hope to play magic a bit (hurray for being able to buy wholesale) as I understand that nothing beats experience but will any of the (seemingly) minor differences in gameplay, as with resources, trip us up on switching to Hex?

Any specific articles people want to recommend? There are a LOT and many seem good but its hard for newbies to judge what might be bad info. Nothing beats experience but I like a bit of theory to get me started and its all rather overwhelming.

Justin

funktion
06-12-2013, 10:58 PM
@justin, what are you primarily interested in? Constructed (meaning you use a deck you already built)? Limitted (meaning you use the cards you open from a pack? Just the mechanics of how the game works? A little bit of everything... I have a few more videos I'm working on at the moment but could accelerate one of them in particular if I knew what people were interested in seeing.

AstaSyneri
06-13-2013, 12:37 AM
No matter what anyone tells you, no matter how many articles you read or videos you watch...

Nothing can ever replace experience. At some point the best way to improve is by playing and getting your hands dirty. With that said...

Don't be afraid to lose, embrace it, acknowledge that it very rarely has anything to do with luck. Figure out what went wrong and learn from it.
The game isn't over until it's over. Maybe you kept a one resource hand with the hopes you would draw the 2nd by turn 3... turn 5 rolls around and you're still not dead but you haven't drawn it. Who knows what the opponent has or is thinking, you aren't dead until you're dead. The more often you play through a losing situation till the bitter end the better you will be able to understand how to fix it the next time.
Admit that sometimes you're wrong.
Don't be afraid to go back to the drawing board, maybe the deck you're using just isn't good, maybe it just isn't the deck for you.
Experiment, sometimes even though something seems horribly wrong in theory, for whatever reason it works.
Have fun, the more you enjoy playing competitively whether you win or lose the more open you will be when an opportunity to improve comes along.


Nothing will ever replace good old fashion practice. Many people quote that it takes roughly 2000 hours of practice to become good / relatively competent at something.


That is actually a very nice summary for how to approach a CCG/TCG! Almost worth a sticky. If you are new to customizable card games, follow this and you will be fine!

Justinkp
06-13-2013, 01:36 AM
@justin, what are you primarily interested in? Constructed (meaning you use a deck you already built)? Limitted (meaning you use the cards you open from a pack? Just the mechanics of how the game works? A little bit of everything... I have a few more videos I'm working on at the moment but could accelerate one of them in particular if I knew what people were interested in seeing.

Really I'm interested in a bit of everything but I've heard drafting is the best way to learn and it sounds fun and I like the idea of limited and will probably start off playing thst at my store (I'm trying to appeal to beginners and casual players both because I'm a beginner myself and also because there's a fairly nearby game store-that actually used to be right next to us st our old location to the extent people thought and still think we're the same store-and I can't compete with them in knowledge and experience). I know the basic mechanics pretty well-depending on how basic you mean-and have read a few articles on drafting, limited, deck building etc. Its just rather intimidating and I feel like I need to get decent quickly, not for hex but for my store. I'm probably at the point where I should start playing but I still want to read more-plus we're still squaring away our magic distributor and it would be annoying to buy retail when I can buy wholesale soon. I may play with my friend's little brother and his friends this weekend which may be a bit awkward but he's 18 so shouldn't be too uncomfortable. I'm thinking of either just playing with their cards (or my very, very old ones but I don't know if this will be useful or viable) or buying some packs so we can have a mini-draft besides the annoyance of buying retail, heh.

Any advice would be welcome and I appreciate the offer of help-this is a great community which I seem to be saying in every post now (I just wish people were more interested in my threads! ;) )

Justin

AstaSyneri
06-13-2013, 01:52 AM
Really I'm interested in a bit of everything but I've heard drafting is the best way to learn and it sounds fun and I like the idea of limited

In my opinion this is a clear Yes and No. Yes, drafting will enable you to learn, but so will any gaming.

The trick with drafting is that you need experience and a profound knowledge of all the cards available in a give format to draft well. Also while drafting you usually are under a lot of pressure time-wise if you need to read all the cards to decide which one to pick. Plus you usually will have a hard time to formulate a strategy for your deck and draft accordingly.

For Hex I would just consider taking the free starter and go play some PvE to get some experience and then start drafting.

Justinkp
06-13-2013, 04:15 AM
In my opinion this is a clear Yes and No. Yes, drafting will enable you to learn, but so will any gaming.

The trick with drafting is that you need experience and a profound knowledge of all the cards available in a give format to draft well. Also while drafting you usually are under a lot of pressure time-wise if you need to read all the cards to decide which one to pick. Plus you usually will have a hard time to formulate a strategy for your deck and draft accordingly.

For Hex I would just consider taking the free starter and go play some PvE to get some experience and then start drafting.

This is pretty much what I plan to do for hex. And though I haven't made a SIG I backed collector and king (found out about the kickstarter the day before it ended, very lucky-I would have liked a grand king but I'd discovered it early I may well have ended up as a producer so it may be for the best) so I'll have a good amount of cards.

I'm in a slightly different position from most as ironically the day I found out about hex I was also finding a magic card distributor for my store. I'd like to run events but now feel pressure to learn as much as possible-not just how to play but whatever all will help me as a retailer helping customers, running events and whatever else I'll need to know. I've read a bit but its very intimidating given how much there is to learn, how much info is out there and ultimately knowing that experience is the best teacher (but it will be difficult to play at the store I own I would think). This is pretty far out of the scope of these forums but if anyone has advice I'll sure take it.

Justin

Rejha
06-13-2013, 05:19 AM
Here is my suggestion: bonus? It's completely free.

Try out a game called elements. It's an online TCG that is COMPLETELY free. No microtransactions or anything like that. You can play PvP or just do PvE all day long, all whilst trying out 12 different elements, mixing and matching them as you choose. You get to formulate unique strategies of all kinds. It's really fun!

Go to elementsthegame.com to try it out. I suggest playing Life, but you can choose anything you want and just keep trying them out to fit your unique playstyle.

RobHaven
06-13-2013, 07:43 AM
Sorry in advance...this post is long as hell.


To make this on topic-I hope to play magic a bit (hurray for being able to buy wholesale) as I understand that nothing beats experience but will any of the (seemingly) minor differences in gameplay, as with resources, trip us up on switching to Hex?

My girlfriend is brand new to card games, and I've been trying to teach her so she could play Hex with me. I started out by setting her up on Duel of the Planeswalkers because it takes care of the shuffling and everything for her. I sit there with her while she plays, and I stop her frequently to ask her about what she's thinking. I've coached rec soccer (high school aged) for 12 years, and I'm taking a similar approach here.

First, I want her to understand basic mechanics. To answer your question, most of the card abilities and card types (summon, quick action, etc) will be the same or very similar in Magic and Hex.

Second, I want her to learn how to think. When she had a 4/5 creature on the board and the computer (playing green) attacked her with a 3/3, she should learn to recognize that as an obvious trap. I asked her what she was thinking, and she said it was an easy kill. I let her go on, the computer Giant Growthed (+3/+3), and she lost her 4/5 to the 3/3 (which became a 6/6). For the record, she was using the same deck as the computer and had a Giant Growth in hand, so she knew the card existed. Another example of adjusting your thinking: She was using a black deck and dropping creature control at the first opportunity, but she already knew the computer's deck had much bigger troops she would need to worry about (and her own troops could easily handle what was out there). Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it.

Third, I had her working on timing. This is a harder one to explain, but it may be one of the biggest differences between being an adequate player and being a good player. I sincerely apologize, but I'm actually coming up completely blank on a sufficient way to explain what I mean. I'm hoping someone else can fill in the gaps here. To give you an example, she was playing an opponent who had a creature it could pump up (meaning it could spend mana to increase the creature's attack). When it attacked, she took it out with creature control right away; what I wanted her to do was wait for the opponent to pump the creature, then destroy it as a response. This way the opponent is out their creature AND the mana used to pump it.

Fourth, I had her working on understanding the cards available. If you know the cards that are out there, you'll be able to better predict your opponent's strategy. Playing against a blue and [any color] deck, and the opponent is keeping two blue mana available at all times? Knowing that counterspells (cancels the spell you just cast) are in existence could help you out significantly. That's a pretty obvious/easy example, but the more experience you get the easier it is to recognize strategies as they're being developed in a game.

Finally, I have her playing poker every now and again. It gives her a nice break from grinding Magic and she likes poker. I'm showing her how skills in one can translate to skills in the other. Recognizing traps, understanding how to read the timing of your opponent's moves in a digital game, adjusting your play based on your knowledge of the available cards, calculating odds on the fly, and learning your opponent in the shortest amount of time possible so you can adjust/weaponize your own play as a counter-strategy.

Prism
06-13-2013, 08:22 AM
You could try playing magic... it'll take a lot of practice to become good at the game though off the bat. I've been playing magic competitively (large out of city tournaments) for about a year now, more casual 'fnm' stuff for about another year and it has helped me become extremely good at all TCGs.

Earlier in the week I was bored and tried a free TCG, might and magic duels of champions. Because of my magic experience I was able to become fairly high rated in the ladder with a deck full of weak commons.

I would just wait for the game though and save money, especially if you did a big pledge. Play PvE until you get the basics and then try out some drafts

Justinkp
06-13-2013, 09:33 AM
@RobHaven
Thanks-I actually know the basics pretty well, I played very briefly when magic first came out, I'm pretty good with game mechanics and I've read a lot recently. It just seems overwhelming to get to even "adequate".

I mostly mentioned the possible differences between magic and hex because I wonder how much the threshold system will change mana curve and the ease of playing other colors. Also I wonder how long people will be stuck in "magic mode" and miss subtle but important differences in strategy because the basic mechanics are so close.

I wish you'd been able to write more on tempo as that wast the part that interested me the most-think I got the basics though.

Understanding the cards is part of what is so intimidating because there are so many sets and cards. I'm not sure how well you're supposed to "know" them. This is one of the many reasons hex is so attractive-getting in on the ground floor with one set.

Thanks for the help! (And check out my maintaining the community thread ;) )

Justin

Aradon
06-13-2013, 09:37 AM
There are some other tips at this thread, as well: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25419

Drafting is an okay way to learn, but it's expensive and very punishing if you're just starting. Sealed events are better for new players, where you open six boosters and build with those. It's easier to build a deck, because you have more choices and all the information you'll need to build the deck, instead of guessing what you might be able to grab in a draft.

Watching videos of players drafting and then playing their matches is very helpful, though. You'll see them talk about what cards they do or don't like, and reason through some critical plays.

Playing a lot will help, but understanding a lot of the theory behind card advantage, tempo, and deck matchups will make your playing experience a lot more valuable and efficient. Also, just reading forums where people talk about specific cards will help you understand how most players think about the game. A lot of people won't necessarily be right, but there are thought patterns that you'll pick up about why cards could be good or bad.

Basically: read & watch other people playing the game, and then play the game yourself. There are a lot of tips and tricks, but this is the most general way to get better without going into lists of dos and don'ts.


Edit: I don't think deckbuilding and theorycrafting right now is very profitable. We don't have enough cards spoiled. It may be possible ot find some combos already, but we don't know how viable they'll be until we see what else is printed to counteract them, or what the general deck power level will look like.

rjv3
06-13-2013, 09:38 AM
I am also pretty new to this type of game and I just wanted to offer my thanks for the advice given in this thread. I'm excited to learn as much as possible before the Alpha.

Justinkp
06-13-2013, 09:40 AM
You could try playing magic... it'll take a lot of practice to become good at the game though off the bat. I've been playing magic competitively (large out of city tournaments) for about a year now, more casual 'fnm' stuff for about another year and it has helped me become extremely good at all TCGs.

Earlier in the week I was bored and tried a free TCG, might and magic duels of champions. Because of my magic experience I was able to become fairly high rated in the ladder with a deck full of weak commons.

I would just wait for the game though and save money, especially if you did a big pledge. Play PvE until you get the basics and then try out some drafts

If you're talking to me you may have missed my later posts. I definitely would wait for hex but I'm a retailer who was in the process of diversifying into gaming-magic to start-when I heard about hex the day before the kickstarter ended. So I kind of have to learn magic for my business. Advantage is cheap cards though. Its a little scary but I'll focusing on beginners and casual players which should make it a bit easier.

Thanks for the advice!

Justin

RobHaven
06-13-2013, 10:19 AM
I wish you'd been able to write more on tempo as that wast the part that interested me the most-think I got the basics though.

Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm asking that straight out - I don't want you to think I'm getting defensive or anything. If there's a way I can alter what I wrote to make it an easier read, I will.
If you're referring to the order of the steps, that was dictated by what I felt was best for Katie (or any beginner) to learn. Like I said - I took a soccer approach: Basic elements, game knowledge, timing/fine tuning decisions, and deeper strategy. The poker was just a way to change things up while still developing her as a player.

Aradon
06-13-2013, 10:33 AM
Tempo's a tricky topic. Generally it involves trading cards in your hand for momentary advantages that disappear once your opponent recovers. Making strong tempo plays are gambles that pay off if you manage to kill your opponent before they recover, but will come back to bite you if they can stabilize again, because you'll be a couple cards down and may lack the resources to finish them off. If you have specific questions about what you're curious about, I could try and explain better. I'm not the best tempo player, though :\

RobHaven
06-13-2013, 10:36 AM
I read that as the tempo of my writing. My bad. I guess my knowledge of game jargon is dated. :/

Justinkp
06-13-2013, 10:37 AM
Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm asking that straight out - I don't want you to think I'm getting defensive or anything. If there's a way I can alter what I wrote to make it an easier read, I will.
If you're referring to the order of the steps, that was dictated by what I felt was best for Katie (or any beginner) to learn. Like I said - I took a soccer approach: Basic elements, game knowledge, timing/fine tuning decisions, and deeper strategy. The poker was just a way to change things up while still developing her as a player.

Sorry I didn't really mean anything by it, your explanation seemed fine, its just that you said:

"I sincerely apologize, but I'm actually coming up completely blank on a sufficient way to explain what I mean. I'm hoping someone else can fill in the gaps here."

Which made it seem like you didn't think it was complete advice and that some was missing. If you hadn't said that I wouldn't have noticed or thought about it.

Edit: Oh my fault you used the word timing but I'd read tempo recently and got them confused.
Justin