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View Full Version : Need to vent about PP getting PVE items through chests



DesertMage
06-12-2013, 01:08 PM
Okay, I know I'm being a bit of a baby, but I need to express my frustration here....

I got to KS late and purchased DC tier because GK and PP were closed. Now, DC won't get bonuses in raids because, you know, it's a raid thing, not a dungeon thing, right? Following that logic, PP shouldn't get any bonuses to PVE, right? Cause they are into PVP, not PVE. Yet, PP gets a treasure chest in every pack, which basically gives them a PVE benefit, which makes no sense!

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the game, and I'm excited about the treasure chests in the packs. But dang, if I'm not a little more distraught about not getting PP, and as stuff like this comes out, it's like rubbing sand in an open wound. Seems like PP gets the best of both worlds now with 3 packs a week for life, plus 3 treasures chests, benefiting PVE and PVP...which goes against the intention of PP tier in the first place!

From the conversations I've read and the numbers of the other tiers, I think everyone recognizes how OP PP and GK tiers were. So it's a strange thing to be so excited for the game and feel so terrible that I didn't get one of those tiers...

Still excited about the game and can't wait to play...thanks for listening...

Brumby66
06-12-2013, 01:10 PM
Okay, I know I'm being a bit of a baby, but I need to express my frustration here....

I got to KS late and purchased DC tier because GK and PP were closed. Now, DC won't get bonuses in raids because, you know, it's a raid thing, not a dungeon thing, right? Following that logic, PP shouldn't get any bonuses to PVE, right? Cause they are into PVP, not PVE. Yet, PP gets a treasure chest in every pack, which basically gives them a PVE benefit, which makes no sense!

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the game, and I'm excited about the treasure chests in the packs. But dang, if I'm not a little more distraught about not getting PP, and as stuff like this comes out, it's like rubbing sand in an open wound. Seems like PP gets the best of both worlds now with 3 packs a week for life, plus 3 treasures chests, benefiting PVE and PVP...which goes against the intention of PP tier in the first place!

From the conversations I've read and the numbers of the other tiers, I think everyone recognizes how OP PP and GK tiers were. So it's a strange thing to be so excited for the game and feel so terrible that I didn't get one of those tiers...

Still excited about the game and can't wait to play...thanks for listening...

And the other 250 tiers shouldn't get draft for a year? Just sayin'. The pve tiers also get pvp benefits, why not the other way?

Sergan
06-12-2013, 01:11 PM
Okay, I know I'm being a bit of a baby
just a bit?

Gwaer
06-12-2013, 01:11 PM
DC won't get bonuses in raid, because it specifically says it only gets bonuses in dungeons. Raid leader would get bonuses in dungeons if dungeons were multiplayer, because it says "Any non-tournament multiplayer pve".

jaxsonbateman
06-12-2013, 01:12 PM
Besides the free tournament at the start (playing off for that playset or whatever the winners get), if I'm not mistaken for the first entire year DC is all upside on PP, right?

Tathel
06-12-2013, 01:13 PM
Just curious what alternative you want?
No chests?
or Chests to only give PvP things (which would $ wise probably make PP even more valuable)

^_^ if you were happy before you knew this there is no real solution to revert you to that state without taking away something that is a benefit to all players.

Yes the PP will be getting more treasure chests, but would you rather get chests in all those boosters you do get as a DC or loose those so that PP is less PvE strong?

The game can't support letting an endless amount of people pay 250$ for free drafts for life, so they certainly won't even things out in that manner.

Tyrfang
06-12-2013, 01:13 PM
DC gets 20 pieces of legendary/rare gear.

funktion
06-12-2013, 01:13 PM
Man we are really getting some high quality posts today... maybe we can start a kickstarter with the goal of getting the forums back to actually talk about being excited about the game etc?

Pentregarth
06-12-2013, 01:16 PM
Man we are really getting some high quality posts today... maybe we can start a kickstarter with the goal of getting the forums back to actually talk about being excited about the game etc?

If anybody would invent an engine that runs off whiny threads on forums, nuclear fusion would become an obsolete goal overnight ^^

cavench
06-12-2013, 01:16 PM
I'm just happy I found out the KS in time.

Tathel
06-12-2013, 01:17 PM
If anybody would invent an engine that runs off whiny threads on forums, nuclear fusion would become an obsolete goal overnight ^^

Conservation of energy! You need to power the whines! And there are some powerful whines!

Pentregarth
06-12-2013, 01:19 PM
As everybody knows, whines are powered by cheese ;)

funktion
06-12-2013, 01:20 PM
But we're all out of crackers

jaxsonbateman
06-12-2013, 01:26 PM
But we're all out of crackers
I'm not the only one who found this hilarious am I? XD

Tyrfang
06-12-2013, 01:27 PM
More incentives for people who play only PvP to play PvE is a good thing.

Think of it this way:

If people open up an awesome piece of gear from a chest, they'll want to use it.

If more people play PvE, then the demand for PvE gear, in general, goes up.

If the demand for PvE gear goes up, your Dungeon Crawler buff is worth more.

jaxsonbateman
06-12-2013, 01:27 PM
Worst case scenario they can put them in their stash for keep defense and I can waltz in and take it off them.

Goombus
06-12-2013, 01:28 PM
Well, considering DC having their disadvantages through PvP, We get to be well equipped faster than others with the 20 rares/legendary items, Extra drop roll in dungeons and we also get the 1 year free drafts. Considering that Legendaries and Rares are hard to get, it would still be highly difficult to get them through chests, as they contain more than just legendaries according to Cory. Such as custom sleeves, extra boosters, etc. Which would drastically make the probability of getting legendaries even lower.

Besides, theres a high chance that CZE will make PvE competitive in the future, so even if we don't compete through PVP, we could be the people who downs a raid boss in the least number of turns :)

Tathel
06-12-2013, 01:29 PM
More incentives for people who play only PvP to play PvE is a good thing.

Think of it this way:

If people open up an awesome piece of gear from a chest, they'll want to use it.

If more people play PvE, then the demand for PvE gear, in general, goes up.

If the demand for PvE gear goes up, your Dungeon Crawler buff is worth more.

Yeah i suspect anything that promotes cross over will allow for healthier whole game population without a heavy leaning to one side.

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 01:32 PM
And the other 250 tiers shouldn't get draft for a year? Just sayin'. The pve tiers also get pvp benefits, why not the other way?

Yes. I honestly think that was a mistake too...since it hurts PP in the first year. There probably could have been a little more thought put into that.


Besides the free tournament at the start (playing off for that playset or whatever the winners get), if I'm not mistaken for the first entire year DC is all upside on PP, right?

Yes. And if you figure the price per year, PP blows everything out of the water with rewards worth $364 per year, or $3640 in ten years. All you have to do is ask a PP if they would trade for DC. Would you? Yeah, that's what I thought...


Just curious what alternative you want?
No chests?
or Chests to only give PvP things (which would $ wise probably make PP even more valuable)

^_^ if you were happy before you knew this there is no real solution to revert you to that state without taking away something that is a benefit to all players.

Yes the PP will be getting more treasure chests, but would you rather get chests in all those boosters you do get as a DC or loose those so that PP is less PvE strong?

The game can't support letting an endless amount of people pay 250$ for free drafts for life, so they certainly won't even things out in that manner.

You're absolutely right. There is no solution to this, and of course I don't expect them to even things out. But I won't apologize for feeling the way I do...or needing to vent about it.


Man we are really getting some high quality posts today... maybe we can start a kickstarter with the goal of getting the forums back to actually talk about being excited about the game etc?

Still excited about the game and can't wait to play...thanks for listening...

Goombus
06-12-2013, 01:33 PM
I don't know, but I'm not sure if the free drafts allows the players to keep the cards they drafted or not. Imo, allowing players to keep the cards they draft through the PP reward... Theres a high risk people would just Legendary + Rare draft, risking in making the drafting experience dull. The cards that they earn should be just from winning the Tournament. Just a thought.

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 01:34 PM
More incentives for people who play only PvP to play PvE is a good thing.

Think of it this way:

If people open up an awesome piece of gear from a chest, they'll want to use it.

If more people play PvE, then the demand for PvE gear, in general, goes up.

If the demand for PvE gear goes up, your Dungeon Crawler buff is worth more.


That's a good way to think about it. Thanks! I actually feel a little better after reading your post!

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 01:35 PM
I don't know, but I'm not sure if the free drafts allows the players to keep the cards they drafted or not. Imo, allowing players to keep the cards they draft through the PP reward... Theres a high risk people would just Legendary + Rare draft, risking in making the drafting experience dull. The cards that they earn should be just from winning the Tournament. Just a thought.

Part of the fun is getting to keep the cards. If you rare draft, that's your prize, since you're less likely to win the tournament if you do.

nearlysober
06-12-2013, 01:35 PM
People should focus on themselves a little more and spend a little less time worrying about what their neighbor has.

The majority of the time, they're gonna contain some piece of poor or common quality gear you already have.
Or a common card you already have.

Kroan
06-12-2013, 01:38 PM
"Wow. Wait. Everyone gets free stuff!? Curse you cryptozoic! Curse you!"

Seriously though. All cards from boosters (or all PvP cards) can be used in PvE aswell. The chests will have some quirky nice rewards in it, but don't expect mind blowing exclusive PvE cards. I'm not sure where you got that idea anyway.

On a side note; the statement that someone wouldn't be trading his PP for a DC is like saying someone won't trade his EBK against a regular King. The whole idea about limited tiers is first come first serve. There was plenty of time to get a Pro Player tier. I think it took about 5-7 days before they were sold out. EBK was actually sold out within a day. That's just how kickstarter and limited tiers work.

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 01:42 PM
"Wow. Wait. Everyone gets free stuff!? Curse you cryptozoic! Curse you!"

Seriously though. All cards from boosters (or all PvP cards) can be used in PvE aswell. The chests will have some quirky nice rewards in it, but don't expect mind blowing exclusive PvE cards. I'm not sure where you got that idea anyway.

On a side note; the statement that someone wouldn't be trading his PP for a DC is like saying someone won't trade his EBK against a regular King. The whole idea about limited tiers is first come first serve. There was plenty of time to get a Pro Player tier. I think it took about 5-7 days before they were sold out. EBK was actually sold out within a day. That's just how kickstarter and limited tiers work.

Thanks for that wonderful information! Fyi, I understand how scarcity and KS work. That doesn't stop me from feeling disappointed, or needing to vent about it. But thanks for your spectacular way of trying to invalidate my feelings with logic...

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 01:43 PM
People should focus on themselves a little more and spend a little less time worrying about what their neighbor has.

The majority of the time, they're gonna contain some piece of poor or common quality gear you already have.
Or a common card you already have.

You're absolutely right on your first point...thanks for reminding me.

Goombus
06-12-2013, 01:43 PM
Part of the fun is getting to keep the cards. If you rare draft, that's your prize, since you're less likely to win the tournament if you do.

Yeah, I guess that's true. But it'd be more awesome if the competitions were actually competitive than just having a load of legendary/rare hoarders. Can't be helped... Who knows what the players will do really :P

Plaga
06-12-2013, 01:43 PM
Good idea, let's even things out: remove the chests from the free draft boosters, but give PP all the PVE buffs for a year.

Kroan
06-12-2013, 01:44 PM
Thanks for that wonderful information! Fyi, I understand how scarcity and KS work. That doesn't stop me from feeling disappointed, or needing to vent about it. But thanks for your spectacular way of trying to invalidate my feelings with logic... You are welcome. If you have the need to vent your feelings on a public forum, expect other people to give an opinion about your feelings. If you don't appreciate getting feedback on your opinions, don't share them.

Kami
06-12-2013, 01:45 PM
Has anyone considered the possibility that PvP-card equipment may only be available through Booster Treasure Chests?

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 01:46 PM
You are welcome. If you have the need to vent your feelings on a public forum, expect other people to give an opinion about your feelings. If you don't appreciate getting feedback on your opinions, don't share them.
Well then, hey there you! If you don't like me expressing opinions about your opinions, then don't post your opinions.

Goombus
06-12-2013, 01:47 PM
Has anyone considered the possibility that PvP-card equipment may only be available through Booster Treasure Chests?

CZE did mention that PVP will not have equipment or talents included during play, just to make things fair and square :)

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 01:47 PM
"Wow. Wait. Everyone gets free stuff!? Curse you cryptozoic! Curse you!"

And seriously...not even close to what I said, so kudos on puting words in my mouth.

What I said was: Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the game, and I'm excited about the treasure chests in the packs.

Tyrfang
06-12-2013, 01:47 PM
Has anyone considered the possibility that PvP-card equipment may only be available through Booster Treasure Chests?

I considered that...I think crafting would be another good way of getting PvP card equipment.

That would probably require a Set # tag for each chest, though.

Kroan
06-12-2013, 01:47 PM
Well then, hey there you! If you don't like me expressing opinions about your opinions, then don't post your opinions.
I didn't mind you having an opinion about it. I'm just stating it's quite a silly opinion to have ;)

Kami
06-12-2013, 01:48 PM
CZE did mention that PVP will not have equipment or talents included during play, just to make things fair and square :)

Right... but PvP cards can still be used in PvE. And we already know PvP-card equipment exists.

Kroan
06-12-2013, 01:49 PM
And seriously...not even close to what I said, so kudos on puting words in my mouth.

What I said was: Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the game, and I'm excited about the treasure chests in the packs.
No, what you said was

Following that logic, PP shouldn't get any bonuses to PVE, right? Cause they are into PVP, not PVE. Yet, PP gets a treasure chest in every pack, which basically gives them a PVE benefit, which makes no sense!

Pentregarth
06-12-2013, 01:49 PM
CZE did mention that PVP will not have equipment or talents included during play, just to make things fair and square :)

What he meant is that Gear for PvP cards (which are useable in PvE, which is why gear exists for them in the first place) might only be available through chests, as opposed to drops from dungeons/raids.
While this might be a possibility, I find it highly unlikely. I'm guessing every piece of equipment will potentially drop in one dungeon or another - after all, nowhere does it say you're automatically getting equipment for cards you actually own ^^

Delrusant
06-12-2013, 01:52 PM
From what I have seen there is no "PvP cards", they are regular cards and PvE only cards, equipment for all cards but equipment only valid in PvE. I you go from this point of view, equipment is just that, there is no "PvP equipment".

Goombus
06-12-2013, 01:53 PM
What he meant is that Gear for PvP cards (which are useable in PvE, which is why gear exists for them in the first place) might only be available through chests, as opposed to drops from dungeons/raids.
While this might be a possibility, I find it highly unlikely. I'm guessing every piece of equipment will potentially drop in one dungeon or another - after all, nowhere does it say you're automatically getting equipment for cards you actually own ^^

Ah, in that case. Yeah, I guess thats possible. It would make chests more thrilling to open I guess :D

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 01:55 PM
No, what you said was..

Okay, let me translate for you so you can stop trying to put words in my mouth....

What I said was:
"Wow. Wait. PP gets PVE stuff!? Curse you cryptozoic! Curse you!"

And I said I was excited about getting chests in packs. So how did you come up with:
"Wow. Wait. Everyone gets free stuff!? Curse you cryptozoic! Curse you!"

Cause you're a troll...

Daer
06-12-2013, 01:58 PM
How about you don't worry about what other people are getting?

Plaga
06-12-2013, 01:58 PM
"Wow. Wait. PP gets PVE stuff!? Curse you cryptozoic! Curse you!"
QFT
And the to sum it up in just 2 posts, what the forums said in response was:
"All the other 250$ tiers get PVP stuff!"

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 02:02 PM
How about you don't worry about what other people are getting?

Not exactly what I'm worried about. It's actually about what I don't have. And what you suggest is easier said than done. Haven't you ever wanted something you don't have? I think it's fair to say most people do. It's in human nature to want what we don't have. KS has that built into it. The idea of scarcity is meant to make us want what we don't have.

But all in all, fair advise. Thanks.

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 02:04 PM
QFT
And the to sum it up in just 2 posts, what the forums said in response was:
"All the other 250$ tiers get PVP stuff!"

2 questions, and I'm not trolling. Can you explain what PVP stuff DC gets? And could you point me to where they talk about that in the forum? I would love to read it. Thanks!

Daer
06-12-2013, 02:04 PM
He means the free year of drafts.

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 02:06 PM
He means the free year of drafts.

Right on. Thanks.

Plaga
06-12-2013, 02:12 PM
Exactly.
And that year of free drafts adds WAY more value to all the other 250$ tiers than what any PP will get from all the chests we could get from a lifetime of free drafts.

Talreth
06-12-2013, 02:25 PM
Thanks for that wonderful information! Fyi, I understand how scarcity and KS work. That doesn't stop me from feeling disappointed, or needing to vent about it. But thanks for your spectacular way of trying to invalidate my feelings with logic...

At least you admit your feelings are irrational and stupid

Zomnivore
06-12-2013, 02:29 PM
You have every right to be upset being an emotional creature n all and being able to take in stimuli.

I just don't think you have any real logical argument for your point of view.

Kerustyx
06-12-2013, 02:36 PM
Yep, such a welcoming community you lot are(n't).

Talreth
06-12-2013, 02:36 PM
Yep, such a welcoming community you lot are(n't).

I would rather the community stay as close to intellectual purity as possible.

Kerustyx
06-12-2013, 02:37 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh god.

Top post

10/10

Talreth
06-12-2013, 02:39 PM
<3333

Pentregarth
06-12-2013, 02:40 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh god.

Top post

10/10

Dude, you already had devs close down 2 of your threads...give them a break, they got a game to put effort into, not a bickering bunch of children who complain that their shovel got taken away from them...

Kerustyx
06-12-2013, 02:41 PM
Dude, you already had devs close down 2 of your threads...give them a break, they got a game to put effort into, not a bickering bunch of children who complain that their shovel got taken away from them...

Show me the second thread that got closed.


Edit: second thread of mine

Shepherd74
06-12-2013, 02:51 PM
To the OP: I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion and need to vent. I also respect the polite way you went about it. In my opinion the snarky responses to a reasonably restrained opinion were a bit unwarranted.

Pentregarth
06-12-2013, 02:58 PM
Show me the second thread that got closed.


Edit: second thread of mine

Fair enough, I thought you had created the original "Have one DC too many" thread as well. Sorry about that.

IndigoShade
06-12-2013, 03:03 PM
If treasure chests in booster packs get any PvP players more interested in PvE, I say that just helps the PvE players down the road in their ability to sell PvE stuff for plat to crossover into PvP. Seems win-win to me.

Kerustyx
06-12-2013, 03:13 PM
Fair enough, I thought you had created the original "Have one DC too many" thread as well. Sorry about that.

It's all good.

Punk
06-12-2013, 03:26 PM
Okay, I know I'm being a bit of a baby, but I need to express my frustration here....

I got to KS late and purchased DC tier because GK and PP were closed. Now, DC won't get bonuses in raids because, you know, it's a raid thing, not a dungeon thing, right? Following that logic, PP shouldn't get any bonuses to PVE, right? Cause they are into PVP, not PVE. Yet, PP gets a treasure chest in every pack, which basically gives them a PVE benefit, which makes no sense!

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the game, and I'm excited about the treasure chests in the packs. But dang, if I'm not a little more distraught about not getting PP, and as stuff like this comes out, it's like rubbing sand in an open wound. Seems like PP gets the best of both worlds now with 3 packs a week for life, plus 3 treasures chests, benefiting PVE and PVP...which goes against the intention of PP tier in the first place!

From the conversations I've read and the numbers of the other tiers, I think everyone recognizes how OP PP and GK tiers were. So it's a strange thing to be so excited for the game and feel so terrible that I didn't get one of those tiers...

Still excited about the game and can't wait to play...thanks for listening...

Treasure Chests come from booster packs. PP aren't the only people to get booster packs.

Absolutely nothing given in any of the KS Tiers are Over Powered. Some things may be more appealing to others. That's it.

I am really getting sick of people posting threads complaining about the KS Tiers. First of all, you shouldn't even be looking at it with the mindset of an investment. Unfortunately, most people only view it as "buying in" to the game because you get extremely good value for the money you pledge. Because of this, threads like yours keep popping up pertaining to "I didn't get enough free stuff" or "Other Tiers are gettings better free stuff."

Kerustyx
06-12-2013, 03:30 PM
Wait until the game goes open beta, you'll see a lot more of it. If you think my light shitposting around here is bad, it's going to get a hell of a lot worse. I made my thread expressing my concerns about this.

Just think, for every one person that posts, there is probably 20+ people lurking feeling exactly the same way.

Plaga
06-12-2013, 03:37 PM
Wait until the game goes open beta, you'll see a lot more of it.Time will tell, but maybe we'll end up with more people being upset with the PVE buffs than the ones being upset by the free draft.

taliesin
06-12-2013, 04:17 PM
I doubt it.
I expect a lot of post KS drafters blaming PP for people picking rares in drafts and then leaving.

snarvid
06-12-2013, 04:31 PM
Which should be a free win for those who remain, yeh?

yovalord
06-12-2013, 04:31 PM
Early bird gets the worm, it wasnt until like 20 days in that PP sold out.

taliesin
06-12-2013, 04:32 PM
Which should be a free win for those who remain, yeh?

There are always people who think they could have won and get the rares.

Punk
06-12-2013, 05:02 PM
Just think, for every one person that posts, there is probably 20+ people lurking feeling exactly the same way.

Yes, I am sure there is at least 20 other people around here who also suffer from rational thought neglect.

Kerustyx
06-12-2013, 05:10 PM
Like yourself, apparently. You just failed to contribute completely and in fact are helping make the community appear worse.

Please stop posting, TIA.

stiii
06-12-2013, 05:18 PM
Yep, such a welcoming community you lot are(n't).

Not many communities welcome idiots trolls.

Kerustyx
06-12-2013, 05:22 PM
Yes, because the OP was obviously an idiot troll.

Zomnivore
06-12-2013, 05:33 PM
Yes, because the OP was obviously an idiot troll.

To be honest you're being really negative, more then whats needed.

The OP posted a gripe that didn't really have validation and people don't like gripers when they're really excited and supportive of something, especially if the griper doesn't have validation.

Punk
06-12-2013, 05:48 PM
Like yourself, apparently. You just failed to contribute completely and in fact are helping make the community appear worse.

Please stop posting, TIA.

I previously contributed to this article and there was nothing wrong with either of my posts. I have yet to see you post anything constructive. I have only seen you complain like a child or be borderline abrasive towards other members of this board. You're the exact definition of a troll.

Please feel welcome to post anything you want. You have now joined Yasi on my ignore list.

Kerustyx
06-12-2013, 05:50 PM
Oh no, there's a cynical person on an internet forum!

My dryness is a product of the community, as every single thread like this normally revolves around the OP getting blasted/mocked etc. because they have an issue/concern/question regarding the kickstarter. Someone has to support them because yes, they are valid complaints. They might not be valid in the eyes of the community, but the community is pretty biased when it comes to the kickstarter.

I'll stop being negative towards you all when you all stop trying to put down people for asking questions/raising concerns. When I stop seeing comments such as:

At least you admit your feelings are irrational and stupid
I would rather the community stay as close to intellectual purity as possible.
and start to be more of a supportive trend, then I'll stop being so damn negative. I highly doubt this will happen but who knows.

I know I'm fanning flames and frankly I don't really care. As much as you all wish this doesn't warrant discussion, it does. And unfortunately, due to the nature of the beast that it is, it will be discussed until the end of time/Hex.


PS. I understand how difficult it must be for you guys, but I'm asking you to look with truly unbiased eyes at the kickstarter tiers compared to the slacker backer. If you can honestly tell me that you'd purchase it over your kickstarter rewards, I'm afraid I'd have to call you a liar.

Kerustyx
06-12-2013, 05:57 PM
I previously contributed to this article and there was nothing wrong with either of my posts. I have yet to see you post anything constructive. I have only seen you complain like a child or be borderline abrasive towards other members of this board. You're the exact definition of a troll.

Please feel welcome to post anything you want. You have now joined Yasi on my ignore list.

Nothing wrong with
Yes, I am sure there is at least 20 other people around here who also suffer from rational thought neglect.?
You're insinuating people who haven't/don't post who are looking into the game and possibly looking into these threads which outline concerns suffer from irrational thought. And you say you're a welcoming member of the community? Doesn't appear that way mate.

If you want to see my constructive posts, look into the first 15 I made on this forum. I stopped replying to the thread because it got retarded and I was trying to maintain politeness. Now though, I'm responding to what I read in kind.

Plaga
06-12-2013, 06:38 PM
... look with truly unbiased eyes at the kickstarter tiers compared to the slacker backer. If you can honestly tell me that you'd purchase it over your kickstarter rewards, I'm afraid I'd have to call you a liar.
Nobody here has ever said that, and no one ever will. The slacker backer is worse than a Ks tier, that's a fact, and it is like that by design.


... yes, they are valid complaints. They might not be valid in the eyes of the community, but the community is pretty biased when it comes to the kickstarter.
Most of the issue/concern/question people have with the KS is: "I found out too late, I want a KS tier" and optionally "if I don't get a KS tier I won't play this game". I totally understand it's a frustrating situation, but that's not a valid issue/concern/question/complaint PERIOD (and I won't repeat the reasons, read any of the other threads if you already don't know)

Oh, and to stay on topic, this post, for a change, was different. The OP complaint about PP getting a pve bonus because of the chest. This MAY be a valid complaint, I don't agree as you can see from my previous posts. Hell, at first I thought the OP was trolling, hence my first response.
I agree some of the answers were out of line, but then, so were some of yours.

stiii
06-12-2013, 07:04 PM
Yes, because the OP was obviously an idiot troll.

I wasn't talking about OP I was talking about you.

Kietay
06-12-2013, 07:36 PM
I was skimming and I think I read the words "Valid" and "Complaint in the same sentence.

What is wrong with you! Why does everyone weenie weezle about the things others have and they dont have. Sometimes in life you work hard and get a lot, sometimes you luck out and get a lot. These are both acceptable! Only an upside down turtle will feel bad because of someone else's luck.

It is natural to want more. It is good to want more. That want should drive you to achieve! But to complain about it is the worst ever in the world!

Time is up

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 07:37 PM
To the OP: I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion and need to vent. I also respect the polite way you went about it. In my opinion the snarky responses to a reasonably restrained opinion were a bit unwarranted.

Thanks for your honesty and response. It has been interesting to observe the level of consciousness on these forum threads. Yours is a most welcome change from some of the others. I expected some hate, but I'm glad to see there are sincere and decent people around too.


If treasure chests in booster packs get any PvP players more interested in PvE, I say that just helps the PvE players down the road in their ability to sell PvE stuff for plat to crossover into PvP. Seems win-win to me.

Yes, someone else mentioned that, and that makes a lot of sense. Looking at it that way makes me feel a lot better, so thanks for pointing it out.

Kerustyx
06-12-2013, 07:46 PM
Nobody here has ever said that, and no one ever will. The slacker backer is worse than a Ks tier, that's a fact, and it is like that by design.


Most of the issue/concern/question people have with the KS is: "I found out too late, I want a KS tier" and optionally "if I don't get a KS tier I won't play this game". I totally understand it's a frustrating situation, but that's not a valid issue/concern/question/complaint PERIOD (and I won't repeat the reasons, read any of the other threads if you already don't know)

Oh, and to stay on topic, this post, for a change, was different. The OP complaint about PP getting a pve bonus because of the chest. This MAY be a valid complaint, I don't agree as you can see from my previous posts. Hell, at first I thought the OP was trolling, hence my first response.
I agree some of the answers were out of line, but then, so were some of yours.

I know my posting is terrible. It's that way by design. I tried being civil and got met with posts insulting my grandmother/boyfriend/dog/gender/taste in music etc. To be honest, I wouldn't have posted in this thread until I saw the hostility being slung by "the community". How would you feel if you were a new person to a forum and was met in the same way this and others have been? Normally, forums are THE worst environment because everyone and their mother can post, everyone has an opinion and everyone must let everyone else know it. Some people walk away from it completely and don't look back.

It really is up to the community to embrace new people as they arrive, answer their questions or direct them to a sticky/video/voodoo ritual where their question is more than likely answered. Shouting at people who raise a concern is really not the way to go as this forum is currently all the community really has for now.

As for the kickstarter tier topic, I think we are currently sitting at 1 new topic per day. Pre-alpha. It will get worse as time progresses and the hype spreads. I can already tell you that there are quite a few people put off by the rewards. Reading any of the social aggregation sites confirms this. I have yet to see a truly successful kickstarter that offered rewards as fundamentally game-changing as Hex. Please note, I said game-changing and not game-breaking here.

In regards to the slacker backer, what I was meaning was if you arrived late. You look on the forums and you see all these people with GRAND KING X2 SNIPER ELITE, I HAVE TOO MANY ACCOUNTS LOL!! Then you look at the Slacker Backer. Oh wow. Now you just feel degraded compared to everyone else. Yes, it's natural and bound to happen, but at the same time, it doesn't need to be lorded over. When someone with a butt load of tiers tells you you can only buy the slacker backer and to "deal with it", your reaction is to tell that person to go fuck themselves usually. You might be polite about it, you might throw a fit or you might just walk away, but that is the general initial response.

Finally, on the actual topic, I don't see the bonus to be of high concern. The treasure chest is going to be pretty random in terms of loot and will probably be worth more unopened in the long run. If the chests are assigned to sets, they have the potential to be used to farm expired cards. This is another of those things where no matter how much theory is thrown at it, going to have to wait and see.


I wasn't talking about OP I was talking about you.

Didn't seem to be aimed at me but ok.

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 07:46 PM
Oh no, there's a cynical person on an internet forum!

My dryness is a product of the community, as every single thread like this normally revolves around the OP getting blasted/mocked etc. because they have an issue/concern/question regarding the kickstarter.

Thanks for taking a stand for a more supportive community. The level of hate and sarcasm on the Internet in general can be pretty disturbing. Some people were really helpful, even some who didn't agree with me, and for that, I thank them. Others were just...well, you know. ;)

Shepherd74
06-12-2013, 07:47 PM
A little known secret is that all of the the KS tiers were a great value. DC should significantly cut down on your time to get items you want. And will potentially give you AH income you can use to buy awesome pvp cards. Don't let a few unkind responses get you down. You have a great tier that sold out for a reason. Enjoy that and stay positive.

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 07:56 PM
It really is up to the community to embrace new people as they arrive, answer their questions or direct them to a sticky/video/voodoo ritual where their question is more than likely answered. Shouting at people who raise a concern is really not the way to go as this forum is currently all the community really has for now.


I really respect you. Thanks for posting on this thread and speaking up to better the community.

Kietay
06-12-2013, 08:00 PM
You don't have to be rude to people but it is actually not OK to validate posts like this. It is not an okay thing to feel so down about learning that everyone gets more out of each booster (chests) but feel bad because of the group of people who get free boosters also get this. Not okay not okay!

Your whole life will be really badsad all the time if that is all it takes. When you express those feelings in public it takes people back because they are not sure if you are even serious. Very unhealthy attitude to let yourself feel like that. Validating it makes it worse!

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 08:01 PM
A little known secret is that all of the the KS tiers were a great value. DC should significantly cut down on your time to get items you want. And will potentially give you AH income you can use to buy awesome pvp cards. Don't let a few unkind responses get you down. You have a great tier that sold out for a reason. Enjoy that and stay positive.

I like how you said, "it's a little known secret." Hearing that makes me feel I'm part of that secret now. Silly, maybe, but that really brightens my outlook. Thanks for helping me out, and I'll do my best to stay positive as you suggested!

DesertMage
06-12-2013, 08:10 PM
You don't have to be rude to people but it is actually not OK to validate posts like this. It is not an okay thing to feel so down about learning that everyone gets more out of each booster (chests) but feel bad because of the group of people who get free boosters also get this. Not okay not okay!

Your whole life will be really badsad all the time if that is all it takes. When you express those feelings in public it takes people back because they are not sure if you are even serious. Very unhealthy attitude to let yourself feel like that. Validating it makes it worse!

People feel the way they feel. Next time you're feeling a little down, why don't you take out these few paragraphs and read them to yourself. I think you'll realize just how callous you sound.

dodecapod
06-12-2013, 08:16 PM
I really don't see why you are complaining. PP is not getting the advantages that DCs are getting.

You have something good, cant you be happy with that?

Kietay
06-12-2013, 08:18 PM
People feel the way they feel. Next time you're feeling a little down, why don't you take out these few paragraphs and read them to yourself. I think you'll realize just how callous you sound.

I do. That is how I feel better! If my bad feelings are from something silly, I crush them myself. If they are from something serious, I use the feeling as a motivation to change! Don't rely on the sympathy of others to deal with your own emotions, but most of all, dont feel sad over things that would have others leaping with joy. That is why negative responses will drag you into the concrete.

Rapkannibale
06-12-2013, 09:07 PM
Man we are really getting some high quality posts today... maybe we can start a kickstarter with the goal of getting the forums back to actually talk about being excited about the game etc?

Have you looked at the WoW forums? These kind of posts means Hex is destined to become huge! ;)

Tyrfang
06-12-2013, 09:10 PM
Have you looked at the WoW forums? These kind of posts means Hex is destined to become huge! ;)

I dunno, WoW didn't have this problem before beta even started.

majin
06-12-2013, 09:52 PM
I dunno, WoW didn't have this problem before beta even started.

wow didn't have a kickstarter like this before beta started

Gremio
06-13-2013, 11:26 AM
Wait until the game goes open beta, you'll see a lot more of it. If you think my light shitposting around here is bad, it's going to get a hell of a lot worse. I made my thread expressing my concerns about this.

Just think, for every one person that posts, there is probably 20+ people lurking feeling exactly the same way.

I'm going to try and be as respectful and civil as possible. But, Kerustyx, I think you were incorrect on just about every point. There are no valid complaints here. People raising issue with PvPers gaining small advantages in PvE (which btw happens in every other game I have ever played) is asinine. And the reason I just had to reply was your statement I quoted. It is fairly naive to think the overwhelming majority share in these "valid" concerns, which is what you insinuate. When people feel slighted, short handed, or shafted in some way, *that* is when they roll over to the relevant forums and post their complaints about it. When people are happy, content, or indifferent about a situation is when they are silent. While you could argue the community is biased, I don't believe that is the reasoning behind the responses to these petty complaints that wastes everyone's time. It is the idea that someone doesn't understand the spirit of a kickstarter, why it's carefully called a pledge and not a pre-order, the difficulty of balancing tiers (especially in a digital medium), the difficulty in projecting outcomes in secondary economy. They are simply making a game and offered tiers they thought would be fun for others. They were exceptionally generous in what they offered at *all* pledge levels, because 'hey it's digital'--and the same goes for the treasure chests in packs.

Diesbudt
06-13-2013, 11:27 AM
wow didn't have a kickstarter like this before beta started

Imagine if they did...

ossuary
06-13-2013, 12:18 PM
Who would ever believe that Blizzard needed financial aid to get a project off the ground? I doubt they'd get a single cent. Unless they offered a custom, non-combat pet free for backers only. :p

Blowfeld
06-13-2013, 12:56 PM
()...thanks for listening...


Why is it, that people always complain when other people get stuff? I usually find people who complain other gamers get too much even worse than those who complain that they did not get enough themselves...

Just get over it and grow some personality

Hatts
06-13-2013, 01:30 PM
I really respect you. Thanks for posting on this thread and speaking up to better the community.

Kerustyx lost my respect and earned a spot on my ignore list when he dropped an r-bomb in an angry rant against OP_Kyle. Not the type of community member I am interested in engaging with.

Kerustyx
06-13-2013, 03:13 PM
I'm going to try and be as respectful and civil as possible. But, Kerustyx, I think you were incorrect on just about every point. There are no valid complaints here. People raising issue with PvPers gaining small advantages in PvE (which btw happens in every other game I have ever played) is asinine. And the reason I just had to reply was your statement I quoted. It is fairly naive to think the overwhelming majority share in these "valid" concerns, which is what you insinuate. When people feel slighted, short handed, or shafted in some way, *that* is when they roll over to the relevant forums and post their complaints about it. When people are happy, content, or indifferent about a situation is when they are silent. While you could argue the community is biased, I don't believe that is the reasoning behind the responses to these petty complaints that wastes everyone's time. It is the idea that someone doesn't understand the spirit of a kickstarter, why it's carefully called a pledge and not a pre-order, the difficulty of balancing tiers (especially in a digital medium), the difficulty in projecting outcomes in secondary economy. They are simply making a game and offered tiers they thought would be fun for others. They were exceptionally generous in what they offered at *all* pledge levels, because 'hey it's digital'--and the same goes for the treasure chests in packs.

Any complaint from a customer is a valid complaint. The complaint might not be shared by the majority of the community and is more than likely hated by it, but it's generally in the Developer's best interest in looking into ways to alleviate said complaint. There's walking a fine line between catering to your fans, alienating your core base and attracting new customers in what could possibly be one of the more difficult games to attract new people to. Of course, this has the chance of alienating the core fanbase. We really shouldn't go into this here because it's even more of a circular argument that will go nowhere fast.

As of right now there is 220 people browsing the Crypto forums. 110 registered and 110 guests. There would be some looking at Hex, and I can almost guarantee it that there would be at least 1 person already feeling off-foot because they came in late. It's really the way it works. All it takes is checking the sticky and seeing they've missed the initial sailing of the ship and thus missed their chance.

My argument is that Crypto shouldn't have made the $250/$500 tiers as valuable as they did. Yes, those account boosts are valuable, especially to any player seriously considering long term commitment. Everything else except for the custom sleeves can be traded. Would the Hex kickstarter have been less exciting? Unfortunately. But the playing field would be a little more even. I understand risk=reward, but those rewards far outweigh the risk. If Crypto had offered a recurring subscription base for the account boosts, I wouldn't be sitting here typing paragraph after paragraph about them.

It only takes a quick glance at other freemium games such as PS2,T:A and LoL to see a successful f2p base model, and those games are/were successful. Could you imagine if T:A had limited double EXP to accounts who only had access to the closed beta? Yes, even though it is a completely different genre, the logic still applies.



@Hatts: if you got offended that I called a moderator a retard in an "angry rant", well heh. Everyone knows moderators aren't really people.

stiii
06-13-2013, 03:55 PM
Any complaint from a customer is a valid complaint.

I'm complaining you are an idiot. As I'm a customer it must be a valid complaint.

I feel bad using your own terrible logic but you did say it....

stiii
06-13-2013, 03:58 PM
I know my posting is terrible. It's that way by design. I tried being civil and got met with posts insulting my grandmother/boyfriend/dog/gender/taste in music etc.




Wah wah wah.

You made a bunch of terrible posts and got called out on them.

Kerustyx
06-13-2013, 03:58 PM
As you're not my customer, your complaint is moot. Try again.

mainstager
06-13-2013, 04:10 PM
If CZE gave away $50 to 1,000 people, there's someone in that 1,000 who would find a reason to complain about it...and I think I know who a few of them would be.

jommy999
06-13-2013, 04:30 PM
such a negative thread to read. bitchy everywhere

Gwaer
06-13-2013, 04:31 PM
such a negative thread to read. bitchy everywhere
Then why bump it? I thought this thread was gonna die days ago =/

jommy999
06-13-2013, 04:38 PM
Then why bump it? I thought this thread was gonna die days ago =/

oop sorry , you are right !

Shivdaddy
06-13-2013, 04:56 PM
Will always be brought up. Pro player is for life. People will never not complain about the advantages of others.

stiii
06-13-2013, 04:58 PM
As you're not my customer, your complaint is moot. Try again.

So everyone complaint isn't valid only complaints made towards a company? And this make sense to you?

Are you even a customer anyway you are complaining about the kickstarter did you back it?

Kerustyx
06-13-2013, 05:13 PM
Of course I backed Hex. I wouldn't be here otherwise. If you read what I wrote (which I'll quote here briefly for sanity's sake)
Any complaint from a customer is a valid complaint you'll understand why I dismissed your complaint.

Shepherd74
06-13-2013, 05:18 PM
Why are you guys still feeding this Kerustyx person? I /ignored him immediately following his post about Kyle. It made me a little sad that Yasi was gone. At least his brightly colored trolling was occasionally heartfelt and amusing.

stiii
06-13-2013, 05:47 PM
Of course I backed Hex. I wouldn't be here otherwise. If you read what I wrote (which I'll quote here briefly for sanity's sake) you'll understand why I dismissed your complaint.

What you said was utter gibberish. I made a very similar comment which was also gibberish to illustrate how absurd what you were saying is. As apparently it needs to be exactly the same lets try this.


I'm not happy with the colours hex is using, red and purple are too close together. I am a customer and that was a complaint. Therefore by your logic is must be a valid complaint. Except it clearly isn't it is absurd. Is this simple enough for you?

Kerustyx
06-13-2013, 05:53 PM
Except that's not absurd at all. You could be colourblind. Adding a colourblind mode could be beneficial, considering there is a lot of people with poor eyesight. You don't exactly hear about it either, as it's not something that would get mentioned a lot.


Try again.

stiii
06-13-2013, 06:01 PM
Except that's not absurd at all. You could be colourblind. Adding a colourblind mode could be beneficial, considering there is a lot of people with poor eyesight. You don't exactly hear about it either, as it's not something that would get mentioned a lot.


Try again.

I think they should ban everyone from the forums I don't like.

Kerustyx
06-13-2013, 06:06 PM
And I'm sure if you were their one and only customer they would quite happily do so.

Atomzed
06-13-2013, 06:31 PM
And I'm sure if you were their one and only customer they would quite happily do so.

Bingo! And the last I checked, Kerustyx, you are not the only customer of Hex. (to be more specific we are all backers not customers of hex).

While all customers can make a complaint, and a company should *try* to address all of the complaints, not all complaints are valid. Hence not all complaints need to result in a change in policy/ product.

stiii
06-13-2013, 06:49 PM
And I'm sure if you were their one and only customer they would quite happily do so.

I'm not sure being this dumb really counts as trolling, it is just embarrassing.

I guess if you just posted HURRRRRRRRRRRR over and over again it would sort of still be trolling.

ossuary
06-13-2013, 07:36 PM
What is embarrassing is that you keep responding to him. Just put him on ignore and be done with it already, this whole thing is tiresome.

Talreth
06-13-2013, 07:47 PM
I'm not sure being this dumb really counts as trolling, it is just embarrassing.

I guess if you just posted HURRRRRRRRRRRR over and over again it would sort of still be trolling.

Experience: 2,574

Kerustyx
06-13-2013, 07:52 PM
@Atomzed I completely agree with you, except my complaint isn't so much a complaint as it is a concern for the future of Hex, and when that predicted time (open beta/soft launch) comes, my concern will become a reality.

You guys think I'm bad? There will be worse, much worse.

@stiii hurr. Did I make sense now? Am I on your level of intelligence? You've yet to offer any decent form of counter argument, so forgive me if I consider you a bit special.

yovalord
06-13-2013, 08:14 PM
Will always be brought up. Pro player is for life. People will never not complain about the advantages of others.

Except when each collector card is worth 300$ each year 5 years down the line.

Atomzed
06-13-2013, 08:16 PM
@Atomzed I completely agree with you, except my complaint isn't so much a complaint as it is a concern for the future of Hex, and when that predicted time (open beta/soft launch) comes, my concern will become a reality.



Me and a few of us have went through your concerns about the KS tiers. I personally think its necessary for the MMO part to succeed.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume I agree with you that those account boosts (DC, PP, RL) are problematic. What do you suggest CZE to do? In my mind, the best thing CZE can do is nothing. If they make available more account boosts, they will be breaking their promise of the accounts being KS exclusive. If they remove the account boosts, then that's also breaking their promises because it was included in the KS.

For better or for worse, CZE has already decide on the various account boosts. The best thing they can do now is to focus their efforts on making the game a better one, so that those accounts will be a drop in the ocean and everyone benefits.

Kerustyx
06-13-2013, 09:02 PM
Me and a few of us have went through your concerns about the KS tiers. I personally think its necessary for the MMO part to succeed.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume I agree with you that those account boosts (DC, PP, RL) are problematic. What do you suggest CZE to do? In my mind, the best thing CZE can do is nothing. If they make available more account boosts, they will be breaking their promise of the accounts being KS exclusive. If they remove the account boosts, then that's also breaking their promises because it was included in the KS.

For better or for worse, CZE has already decide on the various account boosts. The best thing they can do now is to focus their efforts on making the game a better one, so that those accounts will be a drop in the ocean and everyone benefits.

I agree it's in CZE's best interest currently to do nothing. If they break their word now I'd imagine quite a few players would quit, thus devastating the game. Depending on the outbreak however, I think a possible monthly subscription could work once the game is established. The kickstarter crew would have whichever bonuses they backed for free, everyone else has the option to pay (for example) $5 a month per boost desired.

This way, those that feel put out by it can still get access, those that don't care about it don't pay and the people who originally backed it and took the risk get to have the boost for free.

It's worked for many f2p games in the past, generates guaranteed income per month and noone is overly offended by it. The only obstacle here is that the rewards were promised exclusive and in limited quantity. The only groups of players that will get offended by this idea is either those who backed wanting the (small) edge it provided and those who bought tiers to scalp later.

stiii
06-13-2013, 09:42 PM
Experience: 2,574

Man I've posted a lot today.

Atomzed
06-13-2013, 10:53 PM
I agree it's in CZE's best interest currently to do nothing. If they break their word now I'd imagine quite a few players would quit, thus devastating the game. Depending on the outbreak however, I think a possible monthly subscription could work once the game is established. The kickstarter crew would have whichever bonuses they backed for free, everyone else has the option to pay (for example) $5 a month per boost desired.

This way, those that feel put out by it can still get access, those that don't care about it don't pay and the people who originally backed it and took the risk get to have the boost for free.

Unfortunately that would be the worst solution. Besides the fact that the KS tiers were supposed to be exclusive (which you mentioned), CZE also mentioned many times that they will only "sell boosters and starter decks".

If they do what you said (account boost subscriptions), they are breaking their promise. And to me, the company integrity is one of the most important quality. If they do break their word, it will cause people to lose confidence in them .

Kerustyx
06-13-2013, 11:23 PM
They do need to maintain face, definitely, but it wouldn't be the first time a company has gone back on it's word under pressure and/or in the sake of profits.

Of course, in the end, I'm just speculating about something that might not even come to pass. I have seen people turned away because they missed their chance, many others have still come regardless. Only time will tell how much merit, if any, my concerns hold.

Atomzed
06-13-2013, 11:43 PM
We will see. I think CZE should do just fine (I hope!)