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View Full Version : Idea for a Pro Level Subscription



Vizick
06-12-2013, 08:31 PM
Just a hope I have, wondering if anyone else is with me. I really enjoy drafting and the PvP experience, however I was too late to the Kickstarter to grab a pro player so grabbed a Collector. I had an idea for a Pro level VIP program and seeing if anyone else wishes this would happen. Simply put it would be above the current VIP program and allow players a draft per week and 1 booster per week as included with standard VIP (maybe even special tournaments). I would gladly be willing to pay say $20-25/month for this. The saving/year would be as such, 52 boosters for $48, and 52 drafts for $252 total $300/yr, compared to $412/yr for VIP plus a draft per week. I think this would be a great way to build a competitive tier for possibility of future real money tournaments. Like I said just a thought but maybe if Crypto sees enough support (and likes the idea) they can put this in the works.

Gwaer
06-12-2013, 08:33 PM
They probably won't do it. But it seems to me like it isn't a terrible idea.

TheDiv
06-12-2013, 08:41 PM
The benefit for them is that they still get the payment regardless if you utilise the benefit or not which is a fairly solid business model. I'm sure they'll throw some economists in a room and get them to figure it out :P

OutlandishMatt
06-12-2013, 08:48 PM
It wouldn't surprise me to see subscription models for every form of gameplay. Drafts, constructed tournaments, and PvE. Maybe PvE gives out a random rare/legendary once a week or a PvE booster once a week.

Tyrfang
06-12-2013, 08:52 PM
Anything over $9.99/mo shouldn't be considered. At some point, you get sticker shock.

I think the "average" player who hasn't played a TCG will balk at the very existence of a "$20-25" subscription, regardless of the value, and regardless of whether or not they will get the subscription.

They'd never pick up the game, and that would be a shame.

TheDiv
06-12-2013, 08:54 PM
That's true Tyr. It does have the potential to scare people off and also bring up the whole P2W debate all over again :S

incitfulmonk21
06-12-2013, 08:56 PM
It;s an all around good Idea. With that said tyrfang has a point that it may turn people off at such a price even though it's a good deal. If anything though it lets CZE explore other ideas if they don't feel they are going back on their word for selling something besides what they already stated.

Vizick
06-12-2013, 09:05 PM
Tyr; I know it may scare off some people but this would be catered to the more experienced TCG players who would see the value. The people I would expect to buy this would be those that focus on PVP not PVE and wish to play competitively. Not saying the average player couldn't benefit from it but they wouldn't be the target consumer. As for the P2W issue, I don't really see how this is an issue at all for HEX. All TCG's have an aspect of P2W if you want a truly great deck you have to spend the money to acquire the necessary cards whether through boosters or buying individual cards. In HEX however with the PVE side this allows players to still acquire those great decks by other means ie selling legendary loot in AH to buy a card for PVP deck

Malicus
06-12-2013, 09:08 PM
Given that the game will trade on platinum bulk discounts on platinum purchases is the most straightforward implementation allowing you to front load your investment.

Tyrfang
06-12-2013, 09:11 PM
Tyr; I know it may scare off some people but this would be catered to the more experienced TCG players who would see the value. The people I would expect to buy this would be those that focus on PVP not PVE and wish to play competitively. Not saying the average player couldn't benefit from it but they wouldn't be the target consumer. As for the P2W issue, I don't really see how this is an issue at all for HEX. All TCG's have an aspect of P2W if you want a truly great deck you have to spend the money to acquire the necessary cards whether through boosters or buying individual cards. In HEX however with the PVE side this allows players to still acquire those great decks by other means ie selling legendary loot in AH to buy a card for PVP deck

I'm not saying that casual players won't pay it; I'm saying people who might be interested in playing Hex won't consider it BECAUSE such subscription exists.

They want to capture the same audience that would be scared away by the price tag. That's why PvE is free-to-play to begin with.

Vizick
06-12-2013, 09:27 PM
Tyr, I think i understand what you're saying but just want to be clear. You're saying that because such a subscription existed that people would not want to play HEX at all. I by no means would expect this to be required, simply an option perhaps that was shown when you sign up for VIP program. I also have to disagree with you opinion that new people wouldn't play simply because the option was available. It's similiar to what some mmos like EVE or DUST 514 do where they sell special packages to players but players could also buy items with their equivalent of PLAT(this is based on what i've seen ads for, I'm not really familiar with EVE so if I'm incorrect someone please correct me).

BlindMan
06-12-2013, 09:32 PM
If I'm a casual player looking at Hex, I'm going to see that it's f2p for PvE and paid PvP. So then I want to know, how much is it going to cost me to play PvP casually? The $4/month VIP makes me think I can dabble at a low price point. If there's a $4 and a $20, it makes me think I won't get much done at $4, and the real game starts at $20/month.

Tinuvas
06-12-2013, 09:43 PM
You guys are really trying to find more ways to get CZE in our wallets?!?! Yeah, I'd sign up for it, though I think I agree with BlindMan in the way people would perceive the option, whether they took it or not. Maybe not though. It might be a "I can try this for $4 a month and if I like it move up"...I don't know how it would end up.

MacPhal
06-12-2013, 09:52 PM
I think there is a good middle ground here. Have a VIP package that's 9.99 a month. And with that package you would get a discount on drafts and tournaments. The percentage should be at if you play more then 5 drafts/tournaments the player starts saving money over regular priced drafts/tournaments. This way you get a place for people that want to play a lot of drafts/tournaments a way to save some money. And with that saved money play even more games and help keep the pvp side of things more active. But with a sub 10 dollar price point the sticker shook should be almost nil.

cavench
06-12-2013, 10:04 PM
If there isn't a restriction on number of accounts one can have, doesn't that mean one person can subscribe to multiple VIP programs? If that's the case, then CZE might as well allow $8, $12, $16, etc VIP programs.

SomeoneRandom
06-12-2013, 10:05 PM
I like the idea and personally I plan on drafting much more than my free drafts will give me each week so I would sign up for it. However, players like me would buy into drafts at full cost anyways and as you mentioned sticker shock will scare SOME people away from it. As an example from Might and Magic : Duels of Champions, a free to play lane combat card game.

I got to about 1100 ELO by level 10, this meant I owned 2 starter decks and about 7 packs. When you go to the shop you see the prices of everything, about 4 dollars per pack or 3 if you buy 10 packs. This meant that when I played a game against other people I saw a WHOLE lot of rares and legendaries. More in the first couple turns that I had in my entire collection. All I could think of was "WOW these people are really serious about this really basic casual game, they must have spent a lot!", all this just because I saw the stickers on the product. What I found out later was that most of these players hadn't spent money, but had been playing for so long that they were levels 60-90 and you would get 2-4 packs in the higher levels. I had just outplayed people into a high bracket where I was facing people that had been playing since beta and I only had 3 days play time in. It gave me a really sour attitude that I needed to basically continue slamming my head against the money barrier until I had decks that were at least HALF comparable.

I think this is why they should stay away from high subscription costs, the people they WANT to recruit for it will see it as another way people are paying to win, even if that isn't the case.

Disclaimer: Duels of Champions had about a 30 minute PvE experience so the only way I could earn cards was through PvP, since Hex will have a big PvE experience there is a good chance something like that will never happen to others.

Edit: I think a good middle ground would be $12 a month, 1 pack a week and 1 draft per month. This would give people a taste without being too expensive.

Edit2: Thought it was already $8/mo, probably would need to be $8 rather than 12 to make it enough value for casuals. (same $1 price for the draft packs + the $1 for the platinum entry)

quaza
06-12-2013, 10:08 PM
I think it'll be all about wording. Something like "Prepay for the next XX draft tournaments for YY". Those who aren't intimately familiar won't see this as a sub, and those who are see the value.

Malicus
06-12-2013, 10:19 PM
Edit: I think a good middle ground would be $12 a month, 1 pack a week and 1 draft per month. This would give people a taste without being too expensive.

Um yeah that would be stealing $1. The price you are looking for with that is $10.

Pairing weekly and monthly rewards becomes a little awkward though. I

Miwa
06-12-2013, 10:41 PM
They aren't going to need more discount programs for the hardcore. The VIP program is more to keep casual players around longer. $2 boosters is already their discount program for everyone.

The slacker backer rewards are probably a good example of the best discounts you'd ever see going forward. Unless something bad happens and they need to fire sale stuff to drum up interest.

Tyrfang
06-12-2013, 10:42 PM
Ugh, arguing about price points is silly.

$4 a month is all that's needed.

If they're really revenue starved, I can see them adding something to make the $4 option more attractive.

Royal_Assassin17
06-13-2013, 12:05 PM
Providing a higher VIP or other programs that give you a greater value on other aspects of the game is only a good thing and again these would be optional... People have to keep in mind the game needs to generate revenue to get bigger and better

BlindMan
06-13-2013, 12:12 PM
They are still selling packs...

The VIP is just supposed to be a nice little bonus. The average player will probably spend more, even if a decent number don't spend any money.

Tathel
06-13-2013, 12:23 PM
I think maybe a pro player subscription would work best not giving packs away but a certain amount of free event entries.

This way a real pro player can save a little on entry fees, but there is much less exploitable savings for people trying to milk things to sell on AH.

Maybe 8$ and you get the pack a week a VIP gets + a free buy into 2 events a week (either the 1$ draft fee or whatever other form of tournaments they are running) This way on and off players don't have much to exploit but 'pro players' will save 4$ on entry fees

Maybe needs a little more balancing based on what 'pro players' are actually doing draft and tourny wise. But something a long these lines

nandus
06-15-2013, 12:07 PM
I would be willing to go up to $12 a month for a free draft per week. Ideally though, it would be much better if it was $9.99. In any case I think anything to get closer to the elusive pro-tier in KS would most welcomed by the community.

SunsetShimmer
06-15-2013, 12:16 PM
I don't think Hex would offer a subscription for a free draft per week, especially at $10/month.

One draft costs $7, and most competitive players will draft a lot more than twice per month, meaning that Hex is losing out. Also, I wouldn't want people to feel compelled to draft b/c they have a "free" one each week. This leads to people playing the draft out of a "need to get the cards" instead of a desire to have fun.

ramseytheory
06-15-2013, 12:30 PM
If there isn't a restriction on number of accounts one can have, doesn't that mean one person can subscribe to multiple VIP programs? If that's the case, then CZE might as well allow $8, $12, $16, etc VIP programs.

This is confirmed as forbidden.

majin
06-15-2013, 12:37 PM
For me, the most feasible subscriptions that won't break the economy and might cater to people and won't make the KS pledgers go angry are:

$20 - $22 for 4 weeks => free draft a week for 4 weeks. why is this reasonable? you only save $6 to $8 and there's no chance for a primal, it's a trade off but it won't break the economy and still give people the chance to draft at a reduced rate

$216 - $237.6 => 1 year draft, same as above, 10% discount

$10 for 12 weeks => gets you 1 draft token per week, you save $2 but you can't use it all at once, you need to wait every week for the free token

$40 for 52 weeks => same as above, a bit discounted

$50 for 1 month => gives the player the raid leader bonus for a month (I know this should have been exclusive but the raid leaders and above will be saving $480 per year because of their innate bonus). I over priced it so the raid leader+ won't feel cheated. For me, this is still a good to let the others have a taste of the RL bonus

$50 for 1 month => same as above but to get the dungeon bonus

the reason why I want to do this is the more regular cash flow that CZE gets, the more cash they can invest in the game as Cory wants to do / happen

Daer
06-15-2013, 12:41 PM
Lets file this under "Things That Will Never Happen"

Ju66ernaut
06-15-2013, 12:47 PM
I do really like the idea of a discount for buying draft tokens in bulk. $10 for 12 "draft only" platinum or "draft markers" would give incentive to buy more packs/play more drafts.

CodexReaper
06-15-2013, 01:08 PM
A discounted draft system actually isn't that bad of an idea. Given more polish & thought-through implementation, it has the potential to work very successfully. At present, however, I don't think we should count on seeing that happen. For one - as others here have pointed out - a subscription model has the potential to scare newcomers off. If curious players see a price associated with Hex PvP, that raises a lot of questions. What do I get by subscribing? Is this really F2P? Is this Pay-to-Win? Will I be at a disadvantage if I don't subscribe? What about PvE play? While these wouldn't necessarily be the case, you have to be careful what type of systems you open up to players wanting to try out your game. If they feel bombarded & confused by options, odds are good they won't stick around. And secondly, keep in mind that many of the KS backers (everyone above the King level) have been given free weekly drafts for a whole year. Right now would be a bad time to throw on a draft subscription - CZE would be much better off waiting until those bonuses expire before offering anything new for tournament play.

nandus
06-15-2013, 05:02 PM
I frankly can't see how can something that will allow to get more cards + play more tournaments for less money, can be anything but excellent for the community. And if we are getting packs at less than $1(other benefits besides boosters must have some value) in VIP, then in "Pro VIP" it should be even less, since we investing more than double the fee. I can see why this might be redundant in the first set, after all the market will probably be flooded with ks boosters, but for set 2 this would be beyond awesome IMO. In any case when Hex takes off(can't see how this game might not succeed), then many people will resent the KS backers that have for life benefits and things like this might help appease them.

Royal_Assassin17
06-15-2013, 05:29 PM
A subscription model has the potential to scare newcomers off. If curious players see a price associated with Hex PvP, that raises a lot of questions.

100% Disagree... Of course players will see a price associated with Hex PvP its called VIP $4 and boosters $2, which are optional, or you can just stick with PVE which is 100% free with a Free stater deck for PvP and PvE....

Royal_Assassin17
06-15-2013, 05:44 PM
many people will resent the KS backers

this is an important thing for CZE to keep in mind when the game is out... the KS backers got an insane value for whatever level they backed, for example squire backers got $40 of in game stuff for half ($20)... not to mention the exclusive PVE stuff higher backers got... new comers need to get a piece of that value, of course they wont be at the same level has backers but something is better then nothing...

DjiN
06-15-2013, 05:54 PM
There is no High Quality game on the planet that is free

On which planet do you live?

ramseytheory
06-15-2013, 06:06 PM
this is an important thing for CZE to keep in mind when the game is out... the KS backers got an insane value for whatever level they backed, for example squire backers got $40 of in game stuff for half ($20)... not to mention the exclusive PVE stuff higher backers got... new comers need to get a piece of that value, of course they wont be at the same level has backers but something is better then nothing...

Newcomers will already be getting a piece of that value, though, even the non-slacker-backers. The market for set 1 cards will be flooded to hell and back. They might not be able to get good deals on boosters except via the VIP program, but they'll be able to get amazing deals for cards on the auction house. I expect the buy-in price to be extremely low until set 2, maybe even set 3.

maniza
06-15-2013, 06:28 PM
I think that draft games at discount price is a good idea, like 4 x 20$ they already said they wont do it at launch maybe in the future they can implement something along those lines.