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View Full Version : Is it possible to play Underworld PvE without being characterized as a jerk?



GreyGriffin
06-13-2013, 01:46 AM
Really, the contents are on the tin here.

It's been mentioned that PvE dungeons and quests will have a different flavor depending on whether you are playing Underworld or Ardent, and maybe depending on what race you are playing. Do we think or is there any assurance that by choosing an Underworld race, you are not going to be characterized in PvE as a mustache twirling baby eating villain?

Both WoW and Old Republic succeeded in this regard, the former by making the Horde a rather nuanced faction with real and interesting goals, and the latter by giving broad latitude on your character's actions during story quests.

The Underworld seems to be cast a lot more archetypically "evil," as invaders, conquerers, defilers, and the corrupt. Is the game going to force these stereotypes on the players?

jaxsonbateman
06-13-2013, 01:53 AM
When it comes to WoW, I've never considered the Horde the bad guys. One of the reasons I play them is because others have that perception, but really all of the races have their dirty little secrets. One of my mates is an alliance player through and through because he perceives them to be the good guys, and no matter how many times I tell him about the humans betraying the Defias builders, or Lady Prestor being Onyxia and having all that say in human affairs, or how the Tauren were primarily nature-loving shamanistic people, or how the Forsaken were simply trying to establish themselves after luckily breaking free of the LK's control... nup. Allies good, hordies bad.

Definitely playing Underworld for the same reason as the Horde, but hopefully they give the races more reason than just "want to conquer/war". It's good for a reason, but I prefer it to be not the only reason. For example, I heard somewhere that one reason the Necrotic were fighting was because they wanted to live (and the humans tried to kill them). Seems fair enough.

Justinkp
06-13-2013, 02:01 AM
Interesting question, can you point me to info on quest differences by faction or race?

I imagine you could always play your character as not being happy with what his race is doing, maybe trying to change things but ultimately loyal to his race. Some of the quests may make this hard but that's the nature of RPGs with fixed choices-roleplaying can really only take you so far. If it really bothers you I'd just roleplay it as best you can, ultimately it won't matter to most players as these games are seldom "real" roleplaying games, depending on terminology, and are seldom played as such.

I dislike the idea of a pure "evil" faction (and also prefer 3 factions which tends to mitigate this type of dualistic thinking and is usually better for any PvP the game has). I like to imagine that the underworld races are being driven upwards by something WORSE though I know this doesn't really fit the lore.

Justin

Monarch
06-13-2013, 02:08 AM
You're looking at this all wrong.

The most noble race (Dwarves, of course. Don't be thick) could hardly be classified as evil. In an almost Creator-like manner, they seek only to assist the other, ignorant races into reaching a state of true equality; by smashing them into equally small tidbits. The lesser races, without the motherly guidance of the Dwarves, would never realize their blessed potential: as a small, oblong grease-stain, the crisp, playful wisp of smokey ash particulate on a gentle breeeze, or as the melodious crunch of bone on an autumn evening.

As these pious souls toil away to bring Entrath a brighter future, tribes of stoned, humanoid coyotes dance to false idols, and humanoid humans amass vast fortunes as the spoils of war. There is no justice.

Arbiter
06-13-2013, 02:31 AM
I dislike the idea of a pure "evil" faction (and also prefer 3 factions which tends to mitigate this type of dualistic thinking and is usually better for any PvP the game has). I like to imagine that the underworld races are being driven upwards by something WORSE though I know this doesn't really fit the lore.
Justin
I think you have the wrong idea for this games PVP. PVP has no link to inter-factional battle, it is purely you and the deck you build with a champion chosen to suit the deck (not related to any PVE play you do) against another player making the same choices.

So they can do as they like for the PVE... if they choose to make one side totally evil they can, and if someone doesn't like that they can play the other side. It would be cool if we could make our own choices though, and I'd love to see an option to gradually turn against your own faction...

Verdant
06-13-2013, 02:44 AM
You're looking at this all wrong.

The most noble race (Dwarves, of course. Don't be thick) could hardly be classified as evil. In an almost Creator-like manner, they seek only to assist the other, ignorant races into reaching a state of true equality; by smashing them into equally small tidbits. The lesser races, without the motherly guidance of the Dwarves, would never realize their blessed potential: as a small, oblong grease-stain, the crisp, playful wisp of smokey ash particulate on a gentle breeeze, or as the melodious crunch of bone on an autumn evening.

As these pious souls toil away to bring Entrath a brighter future, tribes of stoned, humanoid coyotes dance to false idols, and humanoid humans amass vast fortunes as the spoils of war. There is no justice.
For real, why would Dwarves eat babies when they (babies, not Dwarves) can be blown up to serve higher purpose? There is no brighter future that sun rising over the pile of space rocks which until recently were called Aldera... Entrath. 'Tis the only poetic justice available for this world.
Creator giveth, and Creator taketh away.

Indormi
06-13-2013, 02:46 AM
You're looking at this all wrong.

The most noble race (Dwarves, of course. Don't be thick) could hardly be classified as evil. In an almost Creator-like manner, they seek only to assist the other, ignorant races into reaching a state of true equality; by smashing them into equally small tidbits. The lesser races, without the motherly guidance of the Dwarves, would never realize their blessed potential: as a small, oblong grease-stain, the crisp, playful wisp of smokey ash particulate on a gentle breeeze, or as the melodious crunch of bone on an autumn evening.

As these pious souls toil away to bring Entrath a brighter future, tribes of stoned, humanoid coyotes dance to false idols, and humanoid humans amass vast fortunes as the spoils of war. There is no justice.


If anyone played WoW, Dwarfs "evil" is in the same vibe that Algalons.

OT: The only Ardent race that I really like (art wise) is the Humans. While I like some specific arts in that faction (other than humans) in general they dont appeal much to me. On the other side I really like the Vennen and the necrotic. I really dont like or dislike the shin hares and while the most of the spoiled dwarfs doesnt really appeal to me, I like their creations. All in all I will most likely play my first PvE playthrough as a Necrotic or Vennen.

Justinkp
06-13-2013, 02:51 AM
I think you have the wrong idea for this games PVP. PVP has no link to inter-factional battle, it is purely you and the deck you build with a champion chosen to suit the deck (not related to any PVE play you do) against another player making the same choices.

So they can do as they like for the PVE... if they choose to make one side totally evil they can, and if someone doesn't like that they can play the other side. It would be cool if we could make our own choices though, and I'd love to see an option to gradually turn against your own faction...

Oh I know it doesn't matter in this game, I was speaking more generally. Though if they did try to add territorial PvP like some people want it could be an issue. And I just don't like purely evil races/factions but that's a personal preference. Changing factions opens up a whole can of worms especially if race affects quests which would lead to far more development time for quests. Depending how other systems are designed it could caused other problems and is generally not worth adding unless planned for from the start or if the design of the game makes it a complete non issue which is unlikely.

Justin

Khazrakh
06-13-2013, 03:54 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I'm really looking forward to play my Necrotic Cleric who enjoys nothing more than sucking the life out of everybody and everything. I wouldn't eat babys though - why eat them if you can slowly drain them for years? You'd waste such a potential...
In all honesty, so far it really looks like the classical high fantasy good vs. evil world and I'm okay with that. If you don't want to play a "jerk", don't play an underworld race. I like playing chaotic evil characters as I'm quite the opposit in real life ;)

Daer
06-13-2013, 05:34 AM
In one of Corys interviews he was asked if the Underworld were truly evil or if it was more a Horde from WoW type thing. His response was nope they are truly evil, they aren't just misunderstood, the Underworld are evil and the Ardent are good.

jai151
06-13-2013, 05:54 AM
I have no issue with the Ardent being good and the Underworld being evil. What I would have issue with is the Ardent being "good" and the Underworld being "evil."

Bioware has a huge problem with this, they love to give characters an option to go good or evil, but the things you do make no sense. For example, if you're going evil, you may come across someone who could get you closer to your goal. You get through the conversation, the guy has volunteered to help you. You then have the good option to accept his help or the evil option to kill him on the spot. I mean come on, now, you're going to shoot yourself in the foot for no potential gain? That's not evil, that's just stupid.

Delrusant
06-13-2013, 06:17 AM
I would say they are the ardent evil faction and the underworld mor evil faction.
Coyotle are evil by doign nothing while dwarf are evil because of selfishness.

Shin'hare are evil by culture against all those below them, elves and humans chased them underground so no really that good, could fester another world war (or how too harsh war-ending treaties generated the next war in our history).

Vennen and orc are two sides of the same coin,
Human do not seam particularly friendly and Necrotic are either extra-enrath-ial or spontaeous consciouness.

The only good "people" are the mushrooms until they revolt by eating the bunnies.



As to PvE, I would love to compare the outlook of the imperial shin'hare compare to the detached from the rest of the world coyotle, how Necrotic might have a completely different story objectives than orcs in search of glory and sacrifice...

Lafoote
06-13-2013, 06:26 AM
The given lore portrays the Necrotic as faction neutral, until the Humans force their hand through constant attacks and harassment. Similarly, the Orcs are not a particularly goodie two-shoes member of the Ardent. Do with them as you will.

jgsugden
06-13-2013, 06:29 AM
I imagine that whatever we see on day 1 will evolve to improve our experiences. Personally, I hate melodrama evil. It is far more interesting to see something a bit more realistic in terms of motivations for conflict. Hurting others because you must to survive, taking control over a primitive race to stop them from destroying resources, vengeance for past transgressions, etc... make for more interesting villains than the random homicidal foes.

Gwaer
06-13-2013, 06:30 AM
Cory states a few different times that the underworld is not just misunderstood like some factions, Thrall was definitely the "good guy" even as many people perceived the horde as the "bad guys". That will not be the case here. The underworld is Evil, with a capital E. The paths they have in dungeons will be different from those of the ardent. You might be able to make less evil choices inside of the evil flavored dungeon. I'd think not all the time, and even the less-evil choices will probably still be pretty jerky things to do.

fitzle
06-13-2013, 06:41 AM
They're bad baby, bad! They're making gravy without the lumps!

GreyGriffin
06-13-2013, 07:50 AM
That's fine and all. You could make the same argument about the Sith in Old Republic. But your character had a choice in the matter, and could handle himself with dignity and restraint or answer everything with Force Lightning, even if you were working towards dark ends.

Gwaer
06-13-2013, 08:31 AM
I don't think there are going to be quite as many options as in a bioware game.

Also, and most interestingly, from the kraken article on dungeons. It seems that a lot of your choices could be made in battle, by attacking, not attacking certain creatures and objects, will make it a skill question, too. Do you lose the dungeon trying to save the innocents that are mind controlled or kill them all for an easier time.

benczi
06-13-2013, 08:34 AM
No it is not possible. You are a jerk. Accept it, it's the best compliment you'll get, and you know it.

Void
06-13-2013, 09:35 AM
Also, something to consider - the characters you play as in PvE come from a keep, which seems that it may be independent of any given faction. So while you may have nothing but Necrotic characters, it's entirely possible to see them with motivations independent of the main Necrotic party line. Same applies to other races, other factions.

jaxsonbateman
06-13-2013, 09:38 AM
Do you lose the dungeon trying to save the innocents that are mind controlled or kill them all for an easier time.
Honestly, what self-assured hero doesn't just trample obstacles and then rewrite the stories afterwards?

I mean... I've never let go of a damsel hanging over a gorge just because I didn't want to risk falling in...

Ju66ernaut
06-13-2013, 10:12 AM
This is pure speculation Griffin. As such, I'm sorry to say that as a member of the Underworld, I believe eventually you will have to boil a litter of Shin'hare to make enough rabbit stew to feed the rest of your bunny army.

Baigan
06-13-2013, 10:18 AM
No true Ardent would entertain the notion that Underworld could be anything but demonic scum needing to be wiped out.