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View Full Version : Is it just me that's looking forward to PvE more than PvP?



ConnorJS
06-13-2013, 01:28 PM
I've played many TCG's and MMO's in my time and can't wait to get into the PvE. I find that with TCG's I get sick of playing the same decks over and over and the PvE side allows you to ditch that, customise your cards and get free cards. Personally I will be grinding the PvE in Beta, how about you?

jaxsonbateman
06-13-2013, 01:32 PM
I believe PvE is coming out in the latter part of the beta. I'll be doing as much PvP as I can when the beta first hits in order to get the ~16 cards I want for my first PvE deck (and possible the one piece of equipment I'll need for them).

Then when both sides of the game are out, I'll probably split between the two 40% PvP and 60% PvE. Except for a mad dash for firsts when PvE hits. >:-3

CaptainPuppy
06-13-2013, 01:34 PM
I'm VERY much looking forward to the PVE side of things, and it really annoys me when some people scoff at it and say it's stupid/useless/nobody will play it. I mean, just because it's a part of the game they're not interested in, doesn't mean that it's crap!

ConnorJS
06-13-2013, 01:34 PM
I believe PvE is coming out in the latter part of the beta. I'll be doing as much PvP as I can when the beta first hits in order to get the ~16 cards I want for my first PvE deck (and possible the one piece of equipment I'll need for them).

Then when both sides of the game are out, I'll probably split between the two 40% PvP and 60% PvE. Except for a mad dash for firsts when PvE hits. >:-3

Cory said that there would be some element of PvE in Alpha so I'm sure there'll be some at the start of beta?

Mexalen
06-13-2013, 01:39 PM
I came to the KS because of the PvP-Experience, and I know it will be solid and great ...but it's the PvE that made me pledge (and made me raise the pledge again and again ^^).
I suppose that I will spend most time in PvE at start, and hone my skills for PvP and gather the right cards.

jaxsonbateman
06-13-2013, 01:43 PM
Cory said that there would be some element of PvE in Alpha so I'm sure there'll be some at the start of beta?
Oh really? Coolio! Sort of... I was looking forward to having some beta time to get those PvP cards sorted out before PvE started. Will be tough to do both without laying down some dough and straight up buying the cards and gear, but dems the breaks I guess.

Gregzilla
06-13-2013, 01:47 PM
I'm looking forward more to PvE, aye, but plan on mastering both PvP AND PvE.... eventually. I have a lot of time to play, and am gonna use it as wisely as I can. :)

CaptainPuppy
06-13-2013, 01:47 PM
The "element of PVE in the alpha" will likely be the arena thingy (the squirrels vs dinosaur one they keep talking about).

Shadowelf
06-13-2013, 01:48 PM
I've played many TCG's and MMO's in my time and can't wait to get into the PvE. I find that with TCG's I get sick of playing the same decks over and over and the PvE side allows you to ditch that, customise your cards and get free cards. Personally I will be grinding the PvE in Beta, how about you?

Are u sure u won't be playing the same decks or variations of the same decks in pve as well ? I mean there always will be best cards and best strategies in any tcg; Also given the fact that pve in beta will be pretty limited, who says that ppl won't play the deck that works the best with the available dungeon/s, to farm fast and efficiently? As for me i intend to 'sink my teeth' on everything...

Tyrfang
06-13-2013, 01:53 PM
I want PvE to succeed, but I don't know what to expect from it.

How long are the matches? How broken are PvE cards + equipment? Will there be any challenge?

SeaOfInsanity
06-13-2013, 02:05 PM
I plan to sink time equally into both.
I'm almost certain i'll be just as addicted as I was to the first MTG game on the pc and that game got plenty of my attention back in the day.

Talreth
06-13-2013, 02:40 PM
Yes

AstaSyneri
06-14-2013, 02:45 AM
You can't tell the motivation of the GK backers, but there are quite a few people who backed the DC and RL tiers and it stands to reason that they are looking forward to PvE.

From my point of view the PvE dungeons and raids are what I am most interested in! Things like this can't be done with RL card games, The closest you'd find are the Warlord CCG challenge system, the GoT Wildling deck (IIRC - there was some special challenge deck very early int he game) and the WoW TCG dungeon raids. All of these would require someone to play the challenge deck, sort of like a GM/DM.

Going through the dungeons will be extremely fun and challenging - building decks to counter a variety of different opponents (it may be quite hard to "meta" the dungeon decks, if they differ wildly from each other). And the raids... *licks his chops*

lordjuzam
06-14-2013, 03:16 AM
Cory said that there would be some element of PvE in Alpha so I'm sure there'll be some at the start of beta?

afaik he said the PvE arena would be available at the start of the beta. iirc this is not like a regular dungeon, but more like one encounter combats against various AI opponents (with PvE prizes) , but perhaps there will be some kind of ladder-like system where you will face harder AI opponents after some wins. A bit like climbing the ranks as a gladiator :).

Athravan
06-14-2013, 03:23 AM
I'm really looking forward to tournament play - but one of the things that Hex offered me that other games don't right now is the level of teamwork and social interaction, so I'm really looking forward to guilds; and I've got 3 fantastic friends who all backed it with me, none of whom intend to engage much in PvP (but I think they will once they get hooked!) - they backed it because even though they have little experience with TCGs I told them we could do stuff together and it'd be fun - so I'm definitely looking forward to co-operative PvE the most of all right now.

Justinkp
06-14-2013, 03:24 AM
Are u sure u won't be playing the same decks or variations of the same decks in pve as well ? I mean there always will be best cards and best strategies in any tcg; Also given the fact that pve in beta will be pretty limited, who says that ppl won't play the deck that works the best with the available dungeon/s, to farm fast and efficiently? As for me i intend to 'sink my teeth' on everything...

The mechanics and strategies for different dungeons will be completely different requiring extremely different deck building which is one of the coolest parts. Read some of the articles on this site for a couple pretty cool examples.

Justin

Mebius
06-14-2013, 03:33 AM
I plan to play equal amount of time in PVE and PVP. Because I want to collect all (well maybe most of all) cards/equipment whatever other drop will be in the game.

Shadowelf
06-14-2013, 04:34 AM
The mechanics and strategies for different dungeons will be completely different requiring extremely different deck building which is one of the coolest parts. Read some of the articles on this site for a couple pretty cool examples.

Justin

I know that the psilosophy behind building a pvp deck will be different than that of pve, but there is the possiblity that there will be a best deck/strategy for any given dungeon. For example ruby/wild for kraken's gold, diamond for arena etc. I'm sure that u will be able to test and succeed with lots of different decks, but in the end the most efficient deck will be chosen for farming. Pvp is the same in this regard; u can play whatever u like with reasonable success, but when it comes down to a tournament the best deck will be chosen 9 times out of 10

jaxsonbateman
06-14-2013, 04:53 AM
But the beautiful thing about competitive PvP is that the best deck in general (that is, the highest win % against the field) may not be the best deck against the meta (that is, if everyone's playing the best deck in general, then the best deck against the meta is going to be one that has a 50%+ win rate against that best deck while still being decent against the field).

Though it's often still a correct choice to play the best deck, and try to win off the back of its high win rate against the field. One of the key skills for competitive PvPers is meta analysis and deck selection.

PvE though, I'm curious how they're going to force deck differentiation.

Icepick
06-14-2013, 04:58 AM
I'm looking forward to both equally, but it's a fairly interesting differentiation between the 2. When you think of a card game in general, there is no PvE, they are purely PvP games to the point that Hex is the first time I've heard PvP used in relation to a TCG. So when I think of Hex, my mind usually goes straight to the PvP side, simply because no one *really* knows what to expect from the PvE.
I just hope there is a card list for all the PvE cards as well as the PvP ones.

AstaSyneri
06-14-2013, 05:36 AM
I've got 3 fantastic friends who all backed it with me, none of whom intend to engage much in PvP (but I think they will once they get hooked!) - they backed it because even though they have little experience with TCGs I told them we could do stuff together and it'd be fun - so I'm definitely looking forward to co-operative PvE the most of all right now.

I find coop play to be a major pull, especially if you don't have that much time for PvP play. For those inexperienced with the game its great to be taken along for the ride (and pulling their weight) and get hooked on the game. For the more experienced it's a great way to do something together with friends/guild mates.


The mechanics and strategies for different dungeons will be completely different requiring extremely different deck building which is one of the coolest parts. Read some of the articles on this site for a couple pretty cool examples.

And it might be a real challenge to build decks that can explore the nooks and crannies as well. If the AI decks are really diverse and the AI itself capable, it might be very difficult to build a deck (even including the sideboard) that can defeat them all. But then we'll have a myriad of items to plug into our PvE cards. I guess we'll be busy for quite a while!


PvE though, I'm curious how they're going to force deck differentiation.

Tweak the dungeon raid deck? They have some pretty capable players inhouse, so I'd expect them to be able to change the decks quite easily to keep the challenge interesting (and eliminate "cheesy" decks that offer an extremely high win percentage).

jaxsonbateman
06-14-2013, 05:40 AM
I can tell you now, they're going to need more raid style mechanics and less cards-that-have-to-be-cast in order to force deck differentiation, unless those cards-that-have-to-be-cast are cast before turn 1.

Lafoote
06-14-2013, 05:45 AM
Bought DC + RL stack. What do YOU think? :D

I won't be neglecting the PVP side, but I've been starving for some good dungeon activity since the ones in GW2 weren't much fun.

ConnorJS
06-14-2013, 06:06 AM
But the beautiful thing about competitive PvP is that the best deck in general (that is, the highest win % against the field) may not be the best deck against the meta (that is, if everyone's playing the best deck in general, then the best deck against the meta is going to be one that has a 50%+ win rate against that best deck while still being decent against the field).

When I was a big yu-gi-oh player I always ran anti-meta decks, I got a lot of hate for it but I won more matches with them than I lost, so you're very right about anti-meta decks. I dunno how they will fit into set 1 Hex, though.

jaxsonbateman
06-14-2013, 06:17 AM
When I was a big yu-gi-oh player I always ran anti-meta decks, I got a lot of hate for it but I won more matches with them than I lost, so you're very right about anti-meta decks. I dunno how they will fit into set 1 Hex, though.
We'll have set 1 for 6-8 months from beta until set 2 if I'm not mistaken. The meta will settle at some point - probably after a month or two, or after the first big tournament or two, but at that point it will settle and I don't think we'd see much new make big ripples.

For my own anti-meta story, while I never took it to a tournament, back when Zendikar had just come out and Jund was roflstomping the field in Magic standard, I put together a green-white protection from black deck. Against pretty much any other deck in the high tiers it got crushed, but against Jund it was nigh unbeatable. If I had taken that to a FNM, I totally could have beaten the meta - if the meta had decided that playing Jund was the best to the point of people not playing anything else. But alas, that wasn't ever likely, so I didn't take it in.

fitzle
06-14-2013, 06:41 AM
Of course I plan on playing both sides of the game, PvP and PvE, but I am really looking forward to the PvE too. The PvP stuff, well, that's the same as every CCG. Draft a deck, play against an opponent, wash rinse and repeat! It's all well and good don't get me wrong but there isn't anything going on outside of the box there.

The PvE plans though, love all I've been hearing from start to finish.

Hollywood
06-14-2013, 09:03 AM
I'm actually the same way. I've played TCG's competitively for a very long time, and I'll still play the PvP portion of Hex very competitively also. But I am finding myself more and more excited about the PvE side. Knowing my addictive nature (read putting over 200+ hours on Dragon Quest VIII, multiple Final Fantasy titles, etc.) I've never tried an MMO cuz I knew I'd get hooked. But merging it with a TCG? I can't help myself. Building our Guild. Running through dungeons and raids. It is gonna be awesome! :)

ossuary
06-14-2013, 09:58 AM
I'm definitely looking forward to the PVE more than the PVP. I will do some drafting / constructed / tournaments, but mostly on that side of the wall I'll just play friendly matches with friends / guildmates. Mostly I'm here for the lore and the dungeons / raids. :)

hexinggems
06-14-2013, 10:48 AM
Definitely looking forward to PvE more than PvP myself, that aspect drew me to this more than just another TCG part of it,

Moondancer
06-14-2013, 11:15 AM
First off there is no such thing as anti-meta thats not a thing. There is just the meta game. The way it usually develops is you have a mid range deck that isn't bad against anything but usually isnt awesome against anything really relying on the pilot. Then there is a combo deck that evolves that preys on new players who dont know the interaction and decks not packing disruption. Then you have control decks that prey on the combo decks. The reality is it wont shake down until people hit on decks that can perform two slots on the wheel aggro-control, combo-control, midrange-combo etc. Assuming their set is built properly the meta will oscillate and decks will get tweaked to give small percentages against certain matchups which they predict will be at a specific tournament. And if designed properly there is easily 4 months of innovation to be found before the next set comes out.

Also to original Poster PvE is why i am here if i want pvp i will just go and play magic.

jaxsonbateman
06-14-2013, 11:22 AM
First off there is no such thing as anti-meta thats not a thing. There is just the meta game.
Semantics. When we say anti-meta and explain what we mean, we're clearly saying that when we say anti-meta we mean a deck that isn't designed to be good against the field in general, but is going to be excellent against what we perceive people to be playing. You can call it gaming the meta or playing the meta, we're calling it anti-meta. We all mean the same thing.

My example of the green-white pro black deck is a perfect example of this. It wouldn't have been good against the field, but it would have been good against the meta, if the meta dictated that everyone should play Jund.

And also, while the RPS of control/combo/aggro is usually accurate in a vacuum, the reality is that generally one of those archetypes gets access to a few cards which are more powerful on the whole than the other archetypes, and as such it pulls ahead. Of course, a top tier deck tends to get around 65% win rate against the field max anyway, so it's not going to win everything just because it has stronger cards, but it does seriously help. Case in point - mid-range is dominating in standard right now thanks to stuff like Thragtusk, Restoration Angel and Voice of Resurgence.

stiii
06-14-2013, 12:49 PM
What exactly are people meaning vs field and meta here? They are acting like they are different things.

Moondancer
06-14-2013, 12:57 PM
Semantics. When we say anti-meta and explain what we mean, we're clearly saying that when we say anti-meta we mean a deck that isn't designed to be good against the field in general, but is going to be excellent against what we perceive people to be playing. You can call it gaming the meta or playing the meta, we're calling it anti-meta. We all mean the same thing.

My example of the green-white pro black deck is a perfect example of this. It wouldn't have been good against the field, but it would have been good against the meta, if the meta dictated that everyone should play Jund.

And also, while the RPS of control/combo/aggro is usually accurate in a vacuum, the reality is that generally one of those archetypes gets access to a few cards which are more powerful on the whole than the other archetypes, and as such it pulls ahead. Of course, a top tier deck tends to get around 65% win rate against the field max anyway, so it's not going to win everything just because it has stronger cards, but it does seriously help. Case in point - mid-range is dominating in standard right now thanks to stuff like Thragtusk, Restoration Angel and Voice of Resurgence.

What i am saying is what your describing is just called the meta game. Anti-meta would be playing something regardless of what you think the meta game would be or not playing the meta game.

This is a really good article on the meta-game clock. http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/370207/what-i-know-about-magic-the-gathering

jaxsonbateman
06-14-2013, 12:59 PM
What exactly are people meaning vs field and meta here? They are acting like they are different things.
Pretty sure I didn't insinuate they were different things in my post. I just don't like using one word too much if there are synonyms for it. :-P

stiii
06-14-2013, 02:18 PM
My example of the green-white pro black deck is a perfect example of this. It wouldn't have been good against the field, but it would have been good against the meta, if the meta dictated that everyone should play Jund.



This is what I was talking about.

Banquetto
06-14-2013, 04:23 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the PvP will be excellent. But I think we've all played lots of PvP TCGs before.

So it's the PvE that I find most fresh and exciting.

Baigan
06-14-2013, 05:34 PM
I typically prefer coop over competitive games so yeah, I'm definitely eager for raiding. :D I fully expect that CZE will develop a strong PvP experience that veterans of the genre will enjoy; I hope that translates over to PvE. One of my bigger concerns is the amount and diversity of dungeons / raids that will be available - if they can keep me engaged at that end I will be a very happy player.

Tarngold
06-15-2013, 07:11 PM
Im sure looking forward to seeing how the PVE will play out. Ill be playing a warbot/dwarves deck for PVE and Mill for PVP since Mill isnt possible for PVE. :(

ConnorJS
06-15-2013, 07:58 PM
Im sure looking forward to seeing how the PVE will play out. Ill be playing a warbot/dwarves deck for PVE and Mill for PVP since Mill isnt possible for PVE. :(

Anything that can be used on PvP can be used for PvE...

snarvid
06-15-2013, 08:46 PM
Anything that can be used on PvP can be used for PvE...

Raid bosses cannot be milled. They reshuffle graveyard into a new deck.

Baigan
06-15-2013, 08:55 PM
That could still be an effective strategy in dungeons, though.

KeplerVerge
06-15-2013, 09:53 PM
While the pvp side I'm definitely interested in, I am super stoked for the pve side. That's where the full breadth of Cory and Team's imagination will thrive and I can't wait to experience the wackiness.

Lazybum
06-15-2013, 09:59 PM
i just hope the AI decks follow the rules set for everyone else lol, playing the planeswalker mtg game and its kind cheap when the computer has 10 to 20 of a card in there deck that isnt mana

Zhain
06-15-2013, 10:10 PM
I'm honestly eager to try both. Hoping for a lot of content to go through!

jaxsonbateman
06-15-2013, 10:13 PM
i just hope the AI decks follow the rules set for everyone else lol, playing the planeswalker mtg game and its kind cheap when the computer has 10 to 20 of a card in there deck that isnt mana
Just keep in mind that in Duels of the Planeswalkers we don't have complete freedom in deck construction - in Hex, we will. As such, to keep up with our power level and human ingenuity, AI will need mechanics and possibly to 'break the rules' at some points in order to keep providing us with a challenge. Especially in raids.

Doggerel
06-15-2013, 10:17 PM
While I am excited about pve I would say I am more excited about pvp. This maybe because I have no clue how pve will shake out.

Eckish
06-16-2013, 09:41 AM
If you are interested in how some of the PvE "might" work out, check out Legends of Norrath. They have a lot of varied PvE content. Although, I find the AI way too easy to beat.

ossuary
06-16-2013, 09:48 AM
Raid bosses cannot be milled. They reshuffle graveyard into a new deck.

Unless of course you void their whole graveyard just before you mill the last card of their library, leaving them with nothing but 1 or 2 creatures in their deck forever. ;)

Sure, it's not technically a wincon, but it would sure as hell cripple their ability to stop you pounding their face afterwards. :)

Maric
06-16-2013, 10:48 AM
I'm way more intrigued by the PvE just because Hex is doing something that's never been done before.

AstaSyneri
06-17-2013, 01:47 AM
I'm way more intrigued by the PvE just because Hex is doing something that's never been done before.

Once Real Life nips you in the but and you have additional responsibilities like job and family, competing at a high level in PvP becomes much more difficult, because you simply won't have as much time anymore.

I love TCG game mechanics, the building of decks and testing it against others, but the frustration of being 2-3 iterations behind those no-time-limit players is a big deterrent for me to spend much money on CCGs.

Hex promises to alleviate all that: Sorting the cards is done automatically (no time lost - very important), adequate booster prices for a very well done game, Quick deckbuilding and saving all your whacky ideas/half-built decks without having to restart, high enough quality to be around the block for a few years AND all those nifty PvE puzzles to explore and gain loot to solve the next puzzle.

Best of all I get to try to solve the Raid puzzles with my guild mates - I love coop.

bayushi_fukishu
06-17-2013, 05:40 AM
While I will play PvP and PvE, I am really looking forward to the PvE part of the game.
It will be nice to be able to squeeze in a match or two (or many more) against the AI. Different mechanics for all the encounters will provide challenges for you and your deck.
And being able to just take a break when the RL demands it is a huge bonus as well.

SodaMerc
06-17-2013, 11:15 AM
I am more excited for PvE; I picked rewards to reflect that decision. I'm not really sure how often I'll be able to play and while that may cause me to fall behind on the most 'optimal decks' in both PvE and PvP, I'll still enjoy PvE more at a less competitive level as opposed to getting schooled in PvP tournaments. Of course, I still plan on doing drafting fairly often. I do love me some drafting