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Icepick
06-13-2013, 02:44 PM
I've just added a new article to Casual Hex which clearly shows that the Necrotic aren't evil, but simply a misunderstood and persecuted race! I was actually going to post this tomorrow, but it seemed to tie in quite well with some of the discussions going on around the forums today. So, here it is! (http://www.casualhex.co.uk/2013/06/13/the-necrotic-are-not-evil/)

http://www.casualhex.co.uk/2013/06/13/the-necrotic-are-not-evil/

Comments, criticisms, counter-arguments all more than welcome, both here and on the site!

Sholynyk
06-13-2013, 03:32 PM
I would prefer it if the necrotic were more of as neutral leave me the f alone kinda race (somewhat like the coyote people) however I do not think that this will be the case for the game. At the very least I hope that there are sub factions within the necrotic that are not evil or they provide a story about how while not "evil" to start with the constant assaults by the ardent have caused them to develop a certain beliefs that all other races need to be ...exterminated... In order to show them what they are missing by allowing them to rise again.

Also, why the heck can't any other races become nectrotic? It does not make sense to me in any possible reason existing from the lore.

Avaian
06-13-2013, 03:34 PM
I agree entirely!! Another great article!! I have attempted a couple times to convince others of these same facts.

A couple oddities that may have been worth mentioning.
* Only 2 Diamond Gems, one in each eye socket, awakens the necrotic. Why only Diamond Gems?
* The Coyotle know the most about Hex, other than Necrotic of course, and they only joined the Ardent, because they didn't want to be enslaved by the Shin'hare. What do they know and why don't they say anything?

Avedecus
06-13-2013, 03:35 PM
Also, why the heck can't any other races become nectrotic? It does not make sense to me in any possible reason existing from the lore.

Magic.

As for the diamond gems, iirc those are the ones with the "lifegiving" qualities.

BenRGamer
06-13-2013, 03:36 PM
Eh, this was talked about before when Cory mentioned All Humans Are Good. It's supposed to be pretty black and white, from what I hear, All Ardent are straight up Good Guys(tm) and All Underworld are Dastardly Ne'er Do Wells. So, yeah, they're evil.

Icepick
06-13-2013, 03:52 PM
Eh, this was talked about before when Cory mentioned All Humans Are Good. It's supposed to be pretty black and white, from what I hear, All Ardent are straight up Good Guys(tm) and All Underworld are Dastardly Ne'er Do Wells. So, yeah, they're evil.

Spare me your human propaganda! :P

Anyway, I'm sure that the reason only humans can become Necrotic will be explained at some point. We'll probably be waiting a while to find out though.

Sholynyk
06-13-2013, 03:52 PM
Magic.


Thats what bugs me about a lot of games, WOW did that as well. When did you ever see a undead orc? or tauren? or goblin? or troll? it frustrated the crap outa me when i played it and seems kind of half thought through. I just think Hex could have done that part of their lore a little better.

The necrotics are still going to be my favorite race . . .but still. . a little disappointed that i cannot control a massive army of undead rabbits

BenRGamer
06-13-2013, 04:00 PM
Spare me your human propaganda! :P

I didn't want only good humans, but that's what it is. Ardent = Good, Underworld = Evil, done and done, at least right now. :p

Pentregarth
06-13-2013, 04:03 PM
Well, Hex (as in, the meteor) is supposed to be sentient, and the hexing gems carry part of that sentience. Maybe, for some alien reason, it is only interested in humans.

Also, I wouldn't exactly call the Orcs good...while, as a surface race, they are a part of the Ardent, they still practice slavery and blood sacrifice, both of which are activities I wouldn't call even remotely "good" in any way. I realise those are part of their culture, but the same could be said of the shin'hare (who also have a strong martialistic culture, practice slavery and blood sacrifice and are viewed as evil by mostly everybody)

Icepick
06-13-2013, 04:06 PM
Well, Hex (as in, the meteor) is supposed to be sentient, and the hexing gems carry part of that sentience. Maybe, for some alien reason, it is only interested in humans

Certainly possible. The key difference between the Necrotic and the undead in WoW is that in Hex it's specifically noted that only humans can become Necrotic and the other races can't, whereas in WoW it's just never talked about at all (that I know of.) Presumably because they have specifically said that only humans can become Necrotic, one day they will explain why.

Tiuvath
06-13-2013, 04:06 PM
Humans are speshul :D

I assume we'll get either an explanation at some point or we'll see undead orcs in a later set.

Sholynyk
06-13-2013, 04:09 PM
Presumably because they have specifically said that only humans can become Necrotic, one day they will explain why.

One can only hope. . .thanks for the response :)

Pentregarth
06-13-2013, 04:11 PM
whereas in WoW it's just never talked about at all (that I know of.)

There is at least one example (http://images.wikia.com/wow-todeswache/de/images/2/27/Sylvanas_Windrunner.jpg) of a non-human undead in the warcraft lore that I can think of right off the top of my head...

Icepick
06-13-2013, 04:14 PM
There is at least one example (http://images.wikia.com/wow-todeswache/de/images/2/27/Sylvanas_Windrunner.jpg) of a non-human undead in the warcraft lore that I can think of right off the top of my head...

Oh yeah, there are quite a few non-human undead in the lore, but when it comes to playable undead, you can only be an undead human.

Avaian
06-13-2013, 04:24 PM
These are my current ideas.

The part of Hex that broke off and remained in the planet, contained more of the diamond 'essence' than anything else. That is why you need to use diamond gems.

The reason only Humans, as far as we know, are necrotic is because they have a closer link to the diamond source than other races. The Coyotle to me feel like they lean more towards sapphire, with the ability to control weather.

It is possible the different Hex sources (Wild, Blood, Sapphire, Diamond, and Ruby) are each a different faction in HEX. (While Wild and Blood are the 'True' sources, Hex created gems of all 5)

Pentregarth
06-13-2013, 04:29 PM
(While Wild and Blood are the 'True' sources, Hex created gems of all 5)

That's actually wrong, there are no wild and blood hexing gems.

Avaian
06-13-2013, 04:36 PM
That's actually wrong, there are no wild and blood hexing gems.

Hmm I can't find that, all I could find was:

'Unlike the rare and secretive practitioners of wild or blood magic, nearly anyone could extract potent sorcery from the Hexing Gems with study and practice.'

The Gem dragon, background sort of pointed towards only 3 gems, but they are inherently part of either Blood or Wild magic so I doubt the gems would affect them. Good to know if there are only 3 gems though.

Gwaer
06-13-2013, 04:37 PM
There are as far as the ui is concerned blood and wild gems, you socket them into cards.

Also, the necrotic have alien intelligence, not humans that forgot their lives intelligence. They're inherently evil and conniving, and have weird mind magic.

ErnieK
06-13-2013, 04:53 PM
From a story-telling aspect, it's really not at all surprising to start from a purely black-and-white outlook on the world. It provides simple conflict and the simplicity of the divisions allows you to set up that conflict without getting bogged down in the "exceptions to the rule". It allows for plot-twists later on in the form of side-switching and secret traitors. It also starts you from a place of simplicity and allows the story to grow towards the more gray areas if they wish, which is infinitely easier to justify than starting from a morally questionable space and suddenly become inherently good.

From a game standpoint.... if you got all the different types of things you wanted right away, what the heck would they expand into with later sets. Makes perfect sense to make the initial set cards as cut-and-dry as possible so that the rules are as cut-and-dry as possible before you contradict them with new types of cards later on, once the rules are second-nature to all players.

Icepick
06-13-2013, 05:00 PM
Also, the necrotic have alien intelligence, not humans that forgot their lives intelligence. They're inherently evil and conniving, and have weird mind magic.

I doesn't say "evil" once on the Necrotic story page. Therefore, not evil! Go Necrotic! Down with Humans! :D

BenRGamer
06-13-2013, 05:02 PM
The creator of the game and president of CZE says they're evil... I think that means they're evil.

Demar_Black
06-13-2013, 05:26 PM
I actually didn't think of the Necrotic as evil, just desperate to be left alone.

I suspect we'll see non-human necrotic at some point OR an explanation of how different races deal with death and the afterlife which results in only humans being affected.

Kietay
06-13-2013, 05:53 PM
You seem to like to blame the humans, but it's not wrong to attack things that are not human. Humans were just asserting their right as the dominant species.

Avedecus
06-13-2013, 05:53 PM
Thats what bugs me about a lot of games, WOW did that as well. When did you ever see a undead orc? or tauren? or goblin? or troll?

You saw them in Icecrown, where the guy who actually knew how to raise undead lived. The Lich King was essentially running on atomic power while Sylvanas is still burning coal.

I would contend that if the Necrotic wanted to be left alone, they would not have deliberately assembled various Underworld races and initiated a war of aggression.

Talreth
06-13-2013, 05:55 PM
I think their reaction pretty much makes them evil.

Niedar
06-13-2013, 06:07 PM
Eh, this was talked about before when Cory mentioned All Humans Are Good. It's supposed to be pretty black and white, from what I hear, All Ardent are straight up Good Guys(tm) and All Underworld are Dastardly Ne'er Do Wells. So, yeah, they're evil.

Yeah, I wouldn't take that really as a fact. I mean what else is Cory supposed to say we have this really huge twist that be unveiled at a much later data in the games lore? He pretty much has to state the opposite of the truth if there actually was a twist that he doesn't want to reveal right now.

If they end up not being evil I would be its in a way that doesn't really make them good either.

BenRGamer
06-13-2013, 06:12 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't take that really as a fact. I mean what else is Cory supposed to say we have this really huge twist that be unveiled at a much later data in the games lore? He pretty much has to state the opposite of the truth if there actually was a twist that he doesn't want to reveal right now.

If they end up not being evil I would be its in a way that doesn't really make them good either.

Well, then it'll change then. Up until that point, though, they're evil, because they're Underworld, and Underworld is evil.

Icepick
06-14-2013, 03:56 AM
Well, one day we will know the truth, so you can all stick to your "Necrotic are evil" fantasy if it makes you feel better, but when the humans are revealed as the true villains, we'll know who was right in the end! :P

jai151
06-14-2013, 05:10 AM
Let's think about this for a second.

Of the Ardent, Elves and Coyotle use Wild, Orcs use Blood. Of the Underworld, Shin'Hare use wild and blood, Dwarves don't have corpses, and Vennen use blood. So of the non-necrotic species, Humans are the only ones that leave a corpse without a previous affinity to one of the native magics of Not-Earth -- I mean Entrath. Perhaps that's the reason, the native magics protect the other races from Necrotic takeover.

Avaian
06-14-2013, 05:36 AM
Of the Ardent, Elves and Coyotle use Wild, Orcs use Blood.

Lore - Elves are Practitioners of wild magic. Coyotle don't practice Wild or Blood magic, they are a very spiritual race. Orcs use Hexing shards to perform blood magic.

Cards - Elves are Wild. Coyotle cover Diamond and Sapphire while dabbling in Wild. Orcs cover Blood and Ruby. Humans are Sapphire, Ruby, and Diamond.


Of the Underworld, Shin'Hare use wild and blood, Dwarves don't have corpses, and Vennen use blood.

Lore - Shin'hare Concubunnies are practitioners of Wild Magic, they use Hexing gems for Blood magic. Dwarves do not use any known magic, they are artists who create machines. Vennen are the sons of the Primal of Blood, and know the most about Blood Magic. Necrotic learned Blood magic from Vennen after they made the Underworld allaince.

Cards - Shin'hare are Wild and Blood. Dwarves are Sapphire and Ruby. Vennen are Blood. Necrotic are Blood and Sapphire.


So of the non-necrotic species, Humans are the only ones that leave a corpse without a previous affinity to one of the native magics of Not-Earth -- I mean Entrath. Perhaps that's the reason, the native magics protect the other races from Necrotic takeover.

Sadly the Dragons sort of disprove this idea, Dragons are inherently either of Blood or Wild magic, the Gem dragons are transformed from Blood/Wild dragons due to Hexing gems. If the gems can change a dragon that is alive, than it seems plausible, they are not limited by the affinity for one of the 2 sources to inhabit a corpse.

*Note* All of this is subject to change as more cards are revealed and lore is released.

jai151
06-14-2013, 05:41 AM
I never said primarily for any of the races. Humans don't have any blood or wild representation at all, the other races do, with the exception of Dwarves. But Dwarves don't leave behind a corpse for Necrotic to reawaken, they recycle.

And while the dragons did corrupt, it was a completely different form. They horded MASSES of the crystals, and it wasn't a consciousness takeover (otherwise they'd be helping the Necrotic, and we have no evidence of that).

Avaian
06-14-2013, 05:46 AM
And while the dragons did corrupt, it was a completely different form. They horded MASSES of the crystals, and it wasn't a consciousness takeover (otherwise they'd be helping the Necrotic, and we have no evidence of that).

I don't really count the amount of crystals it takes as a reason. A dragon is Unbelievably powerful in the lore, and it is understandable for it to take more gems to enact a change than it would for another race.

Edit - Forgot to mention Zeedu. Sapphire Gem dragon.

Zeedu - This Sapphire Dragon was once a Blood Dragon that greedily gathered so many sapphire gems, his body has transformed into a shimmering blue shard of precious mineral. He has formed a mutually beneficial alliance with the necrotic.

jai151
06-14-2013, 05:56 AM
I don't really count the amount of crystals it takes as a reason. A dragon is Unbelievably powerful in the lore, and it is understandable for it to take more gems to enact a change than it would for another race.

Edit - Forgot to mention Zeedu. Sapphire Gem dragon.

Zeedu - This Sapphire Dragon was once a Blood Dragon that greedily gathered so many sapphire gems, his body has transformed into a shimmering blue shard of precious mineral. He has formed a mutually beneficial alliance with the necrotic.

It was still a fundamentally different form of corruption, but there's another side I was thinking of but didn't want to put forth because I honestly hadn't kept a very close eye on spoilers. Humans are the only race with high representation of all three Hex magics. This could be evidence of an affinity for Hex above and beyond the other races. This would also cover the dragons, as covetous beings tied so closely to magic they would have an open attraction and seek out the crystals.

Of course, it could just be that none of the other races leave viable corpses, as aside from Humans and Dwarves, we don't really know burial practices.

Icepick
06-14-2013, 09:07 AM
Yeah it's a nice theory, but I got the impression that it wasn't that Humans *couldn't* use wild or blood magic, just that before Hex showed up all magic was very rare, and pretty hard to learn, and that humans didn't really have much of an affinity for it.

Incidentally, if anyone has any requests for things they would like to see on the site, let me know. I've got plenty of ideas already but if there is stuff people specifically want to see, I'm happy to try and oblige!