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View Full Version : A good Module for a Platinum Economy that has Cash Out...



Leperchan5
06-14-2013, 07:15 PM
I know there were a few post on this but they disappeared, as far as my knowledge Crypto has yet to officially announce the Platinum market and how it will work. First off I am using the USA Dollar in my example, I am not sure if Platinum can bought with any other currency. So here are my two cents..
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We know Platinum will equal real money. In my opinion a lot of common/Uncommon cards wont be work more than $0.10 - $0.30... So I don't think 1 Platinum should equal a dollar, more like 1P= $0.10. This will allow many cards (not just rares to be sold for Platinum.

Since there are such things as fee's applied to transfer I like the minim you can purchase would be $1 or $5, thus $1 for 10P or $5 for 50P. I think this makes sense and everyone can agree.

Now for buy out... I know there can be more red tape involved, but here is my Economic theory for the buy out process. Now keep in mind, there will be always fees involved with money transfer and Crypto is a businesses, so my theory is that the Cash Out Ratio should be either 12P = $1 or 10P = $0.80. You would need the exact amount of Platinum, but I don't think we would have many complaints be the max they might loose is 90 cents. Yes I also realize that you will lose money in cashing out, but if your solely here to make money you might be in the wrong place.

I know that high end transactions would have a bigger chunk taken out rather than if we went for a 20% Transfer fee, this would reduce people selling card for insane ridiculous prices and keep the High end cards down to a reasonable level. This can also eliminated any fees for Platinum at the AH, because the fee would apply when you cash out, so if you don't Cash out a $7 (or 70P) card, you can use that for a Draft fee.

So going by this module
Buying
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Booster pack = 20P
Drafts (no boosters) = 70P
a $20 card on AH = 200P

Cashing Out - [Note for this Cash out Scenario I used 10P = $0.80]
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Booster pack $2 (20P) = $1.60 -Crypto keeps $0.40
A card sold for $7 (70P)= $5.60 - Crypto keeps $1.40
A card sold for $20 (200P) = $16 - Crypto keeps $4.00
Cashing out $100 (1000P) = $80 -Crypto Keeps $20.00


Well tell me what you think... what you like, what you hate... but please make sure the comments are constructive.

Captain_Obvious
06-14-2013, 07:22 PM
~ How many links would you like me to provide to threads already on this topic? ~

Leperchan5
06-14-2013, 07:33 PM
I didn't see any threads in the 1st 3 pages, so I figured it's better to start a new thread, rather than post at the end of a thread 20 pages deep and my message gets lost.

Captain_Obvious
06-14-2013, 07:36 PM
~The moment you post in a thread it bumps back to top spot~

Thelaasa
06-14-2013, 07:46 PM
There is a big, glaring problem with providing a cash out option. As soon as you provide a way to turn in game rewards into real world money, you cross over into the shady world of online gambling. Assuming that CZE will be awarding platinum as part of the various tournament rewards, you now have a system where you can pay real money to get platinum, then "wager" that platinum by using it to enter a card tournament where you can possibly win more platinum that can be converted back to real money. Given that every country, and most states here in the US, have different laws on how to handle online gambling, if it is even legal in the first place, and a system like this that provides a way to "cash out" your platinum becomes a huge problem for the legal department.

Now, that isn't to say that something like this cannot be done, or should not be done, just that it would be incredibly difficult to deal with for CZE and their legal team. Just look at all of the problems Blizzard ran into with Diablo 3 and their real money auction house. Personally, I doubt that I would ever make use of a "cash out" feature in this game, so I have no real concerns about whether or not it gets implemented, but I do have concerns about how it gets implemented. I would much rather have no cash out option and have platinum in the tournament rewards than have a cash out option but no way to win platinum in game.

Leperchan5
06-14-2013, 07:47 PM
I'm not going to argue with you why I think it was a better choice to do what I did (aka make a new post) rather than tacking on to an already existing post . The simple answer is, it would access more people as a new thread rather than being post 1000 and people will have to click on page 20 to look at my post, rather than just clicking on the title. Regardless this will be my last comment about this situation rather than the actual context of the post (feel free to have the last words) and I thank you for your unintentional (though snarky) bumps. :)

Leperchan5
06-14-2013, 07:52 PM
[@Thelaasa] I completely understand how much it can be a legal nightmare to deal with and personally I wouldn't hardly ever use such a system unless I was strapped for cash and needed to sell some cards for real cash. I feel having a system is place is much better than people dealing with the 3rd market for such things (which will happen if there is no system in place.)

ossuary
06-14-2013, 08:16 PM
It very well may (in fact, it 100% will), but the point that matters is that Crypto won't be legally liable for it, whereas if they allow you to cash out game items for actual money, they would be. The laws on that kind of stuff are extremely strict and convoluted. Many small companies on US soil simply cannot afford to even consider it. They would go bankrupt in legal fees just trying to get it set up.

Omniloathe
06-14-2013, 08:31 PM
Any talk about cash out is a total waste of time.

There is almost zero chance cryptozoic could/would support it. If cash out does not exist, they are a retailer of digital product. If cash out does exist, they are a financial institution. The legal requirements are staggering.

This whole topic is about a situation that has zero chance of being realized. Stop wasting time.

Dropbear
06-14-2013, 08:31 PM
Cash out ALWAYS ENDS IN TEARS AND LEGAL SHIT, as well as potentially the company losing money due to inflated prices. It's why with Steam you can't take money out of the system after it's been put back in.

CrownZero
06-14-2013, 08:36 PM
Cash out ALWAYS ENDS IN TEARS AND LEGAL SHIT, as well as potentially the company losing money due to inflated prices. It's why with Steam you can't take money out of the system after it's been put back in.

I'm not religious. But, amen to that!

KaosSoul
06-14-2013, 08:36 PM
comons and unco are worth 10cent when the dealer sell em to you from your local store, no1 buys em over 5 cents, most mtg Rare are worth 25-30 cents lol this is a utopic tread

Grumph
06-14-2013, 08:37 PM
what if they removed platinum from the prize pools? then it wouldn't be gambling would it?

KaosSoul
06-14-2013, 08:39 PM
what if they removed platinum from the prize pools? then it wouldn't be gambling would it?

prize pool is Boosters, and more booosters everywhere for draft and whatever on-demand, the only place you can expect platinum is Montly Constructed Tourny and the Yearly Championship but that should end up with real money at that point

Rtsands45
06-14-2013, 09:46 PM
The reason many TCGs/CCGs can hold cash tournaments and get around the gambling loopholes is because there is a set amount of total prize money being given out no matter how large the tournament.

For example, Starcitygames holds weekly tournaments for MTG which pay out $10,000 divided to top 64. Naturally, 1st receives 2400, 2nd 1200, 3rd-4th 600, 5th-8th 300, 9th-32nd each get 100, and 33rd-64th get 50. No matter how many people sign up there will always be a fixed amount of cash given out. Entry is $40 for the tournament, which is constructed. They make their payout back at 250 people, and usually they have 350+ people for each tournament. Even if they had less than 250 people sign up for the tournament they still pay out the same. Now SCG travels all around the US to have these tournaments. So, if this is legal offline I would imagine that this would be legal online.

NewbieLam
06-14-2013, 09:56 PM
One word Diablo 3... wait that was two words. Hex Shard of Fate will become Hex shard of auction house, with a cash out option. IF you want to know what a cash auction house would do to a game, go play diablo 3.

Avedecus
06-14-2013, 10:09 PM
If for no other reason, cash out should not be included due to the fact that it will paint a massive target on HEX accounts for hackers.

Kietay
06-14-2013, 10:09 PM
Any talk about cash out is a total waste of time.

There is almost zero chance cryptozoic could/would support it. If cash out does not exist, they are a retailer of digital product. If cash out does exist, they are a financial institution. The legal requirements are staggering.

This whole topic is about a situation that has zero chance of being realized. Stop wasting time.

Cory has already stated he specifically would like there to be a RMAH and a way to cash out. They are just simply too small of a company to handle that right now. I imagine they will add it in later when hex is larger.

Bossett
06-14-2013, 10:27 PM
Cory has already stated he specifically would like there to be a RMAH and a way to cash out. They are just simply too small of a company to handle that right now. I imagine they will add it in later when hex is larger.

I just really hope that if this is the case, they don't go the D3 route and make it cash-out only to Paypal.

DreamPuppet
06-14-2013, 10:43 PM
I really hope that there ends up being a safe place to cashout whether that be something run by crypto or someone else that has the knowledge to create it.

NewbieLam
06-14-2013, 11:02 PM
Cory has already stated he specifically would like there to be a RMAH and a way to cash out. They are just simply too small of a company to handle that right now. I imagine they will add it in later when hex is larger.

I guess if you say so and put Cory name in there it must be true.

Nicalapegus
06-14-2013, 11:10 PM
They have stated they're not doing a real money AH. So while this may be your dreams/aspirations... Crypto has said no already. =/

TheKraken
06-14-2013, 11:14 PM
They have stated they're not doing a real money AH. So while this may be your dreams/aspirations... Crypto has said no already. =/

Actually it is quite the opposite. Cory said in his interview on Angry Joe's that he wants to have a real money auction house in the future. It doesn't confirm that they will have one but it says they want one.

Kietay
06-14-2013, 11:15 PM
I guess if you say so and put Cory name in there it must be true.

See above interview.

Nicalapegus
06-15-2013, 12:11 AM
From that interview-

"It's all in game currencey-Real money auction houses come with a tremendous amount of hurdles to go through... it is something I would like to see down the line...we have already invested hundreds of thousands of dollars...jumping into a real money auction house...is something I would like to see but it would take some time."

So no. It's not happening. Maybe later.

BenAndrion
06-15-2013, 12:38 AM
Someone said cashing out a pack would give an individual a dollar sixty.....
so if i cash out my one hundred and fifty packs (that I paid 120 dollars for) i would get 240 dollars......
I don't see Cryptozoic doing that lol.

MatWith1T
06-15-2013, 06:24 AM
If CZE doesn't implement real-money, the secondary market will. Much better for everyone (except hackers) if CZE is the one processing those transactions.

Thelaasa
06-15-2013, 07:31 AM
A few counter points.

1-"IF CZE doesn't do it, someone else will"- well, yeah, but the problem is that the reverse isn't true. If CZE does institute a cash out or RMAH feature, that doesn't meant that there still won't be third party sites with the same function. Look at Diablo 3, they have a RMAH and they are still plagued with botters and third party sellers.

2-prize pools/online gambling- It doesn't matter what the prizes actually are, only that there are prizes to be one. A cash out/RMAH feature will mean that all digital items will have a real monetary value associated with them, therefore all tournament prizes, no matter their nature, will have a real monetary value associated with them. This means that, in its simplest form, a tournament is an event where you pay X amount of money to play a card game with a chance at winning Y amount of money. This isn't a problem with physical events because those events are only ever held in 1 area at a time, and the event creators can work with local governments to ensure their events meet any offline gambling laws that may be relevant. The problem with this is that online gambling laws are different than offline gambling laws, and generally vary from state to state and country to country. So, CZE would have to work with legal teams from all 50 states plus however many other countries this game will supported in.

ramseytheory
06-15-2013, 07:43 AM
Yeah, the problem isn't CZE dragging their feet, the problem is politicians having utterly insane laws about online gambling that restrict things which bear very little resemblance to gambling. Even Blizzard had to drop their auction house from Diablo 3 in South Korea. So they have a choice between spending millions in legal fees to try and get something working, or spending the same money on the rest of the game.

Googolplex
06-15-2013, 08:25 AM
Cash out is a TERRIBLE idea and should be avoided at all cost!

If that means we lose some players who "will not play the game if they cannot withdraw their money", then good riddance!

I'd rather CZE spends their money/focus on gameplay, instead of handling legal issues that often turn into a nightmare.

Yoss
06-15-2013, 10:08 AM
TLDR thread.

First, there are other threads on this already. (Search for "economic gold platinum".) Second, I am more in favor of forcing people to use eBay rather than enable it through CZE. Third, if CZE does implement cash out, they should take a 10% fee, which matches what eBay would take.