PDA

View Full Version : Limted Edition Sets



x78089
06-16-2013, 08:22 AM
Hi all, I have been lurking for the past few weeks and finally decided to take the plunge. I had an idea about the game that I thought would be neat and I wanted your feedback. This is not something that would need to be implemented right away, but could help to stabilize the economy after some time has passed. In MTGO you have the ability to trade complete sets in for physical cards. Now this is easy for WoTC b/c they already print all the cards anyways. But, I thought it would be cool if they printed XXXX number of sets as physical cards (configuration of card would be up for debate) that can be traded for in the same way as MTGO. This would allow the collectors to trade in for a physical product that would be by design somewhat limited. This would help to remove cards from the economy and keep at least a limited amount of demand for "crap" rares. I for one would love a complete set of their artwork, especially if it is 1/1000 or whatever number is deemed appropriate. I would imagine that with their current printing relationships this would not be too terribly expensive and a nice bonus for their die hard fans. Thoughts?

EDIT: To be clear, these would not be game playable cards. Merely a physical collectible that is limited to XXX number of sets and cool to own. There is no reason to believe that HEX will ever translate into a traditional CCG. That is not my intent with this post.

IndigoShade
06-16-2013, 08:29 AM
The difference here between HEX & M:tG is that those M:tG cards you receive in trade can actually be used to play the game. Cory has said they have absolutely no intention of ever making a physical version of HEX because it would limit what they do with the digital game by being forced to only do what a physical card game is capable of.

Sure, they could still do it as just a collector's item with absolutely no play value. I don't see many people wanting to make that trade though, and it would be a lot of wasted effort IMO. Not to mention I'm sure that a few people would be confused by the idea of them even printing cards to begin with and assume that Cryptozoic was supporting a physical HEX TCG. I don't think it would be in their best interests to do it.

DjiN
06-16-2013, 08:31 AM
The physical version wouldn't even be fun. Imagine someone playing one pack raptor after the other or you having to track all permanent stat changes in game. ^^

Mr.Funsocks
06-16-2013, 08:37 AM
Was actually pondering that it'd be hilarious to print cards to sell in card shops that had barcodes or something you could scan in to the game. Just because the idea of people actually playing the physical game with pack raptors or the like would amuse me.

Malicus
06-16-2013, 08:39 AM
I agree that this differs significantly from MtG in that physical cards aren't realistically playable but the core idea of having a card sink which generates a collectable is kind of cool and in the long run only increases the value of the other cards as it shrinks the market.

That said as the cards wouldn't be playable in a physical form why not make the collectible something else but generated by the same method such as a limited edition art book available only by surrendering a collection etc. I would rather have the digital cards but some physical manifestation may interest others.

Shivdaddy
06-16-2013, 08:40 AM
It would cost them too much to do this.

Shadowelf
06-16-2013, 08:50 AM
It would cost them too much to do this.

This plus the game is designed as digital unlike mtgo, and given the fact that it involves mechanisms that can't be implemented in a psysical tcg, i don't really see the point.

They could give however psysical copies of cards as promos if they wanted, which will be cool

ossuary
06-16-2013, 09:07 AM
Yeah, I have to agree that this would cost too much for CZE to bother with. However, I could see something like them using cards with scratch-off barcodes instead of actual plastic cards for people to buy plat in retail outlets. That would cost them less AND look cool - they could have X amount of custom artwork cards per each new set, so people could collect / keep them after they redeemed them for their in-game items. That could be neat and satisfy the urge to collect a physical item as well.

Mr.Funsocks
06-16-2013, 09:17 AM
Yeah, I have to agree that this would cost too much for CZE to bother with. However, I could see something like them using cards with scratch-off barcodes instead of actual plastic cards for people to buy plat in retail outlets. That would cost them less AND look cool - they could have X amount of custom artwork cards per each new set, so people could collect / keep them after they redeemed them for their in-game items. That could be neat and satisfy the urge to collect a physical item as well.

They could also have booster packs with scratch off barcodes for the cards in the online game, purely as a form of advertising. It's far from a profitable venture, but could be a way to include current brick-and-mortar cardshops, which are still kind of the backbone of the industry, in the game.

TheKraken
06-16-2013, 09:20 AM
I think if Hex does become wildly popular, I think there could definitely be a market for this:

Exclusive, limited, and non-playable physical copies of legendary/promo cards solely for collectable purposes.

x78089
06-16-2013, 09:33 AM
The majority of the feedback seems focused on physical gameplay. Apparently I was not clear, these cards would not be playable. they would merely be a physical collectible. Something to reward those who make sets and want something they can hold in their hot, sweaty hands. It would also help (in a small way) to hold down the population of cards available online and give a small incentive to collectors.

As to cost, I find it hard to believe that if a no-name game developer can sell cards on KS for $15 a deck where they only have a few hundred copies in a print run, that a major game published cannot pull this off relatively cheaply. and if it drives some to purchase more packs to get the last few cards they were after, than they would actually profit from it.

x78089
06-16-2013, 09:40 AM
Sure, they could still do it as just a collector's item with absolutely no play value. I don't see many people wanting to make that trade though, and it would be a lot of wasted effort IMO. Not to mention I'm sure that a few people would be confused by the idea of them even printing cards to begin with and assume that Cryptozoic was supporting a physical HEX TCG. I don't think it would be in their best interests to do it.

Demand I can see as a valid argument. Some people possibly being confused is not. Crypto has been quite clear that this is online only TCG. Any physical offering is obviously for collectors only (or some sort of bar code promotion). I disagree with you on the demand side, but that is something they would probably consider before utilizing anything like my idea.

x78089
06-16-2013, 09:42 AM
I think if Hex does become wildly popular, I think there could definitely be a market for this:

Exclusive, limited, and non-playable physical copies of legendary/promo cards solely for collectable purposes.

Sure, this is an obvious derivative of my intent. If printing the whole set is not feasible than having a subset available is the next best thing. I like the idea of having to complete "something", however before you can trade your XYZ card for a hpysical version. Hence the set in my initial suggestion. Just trading a legendary for its applicable physical card seems very limiting to me and isnt in the spirit of a collectible TCG.

IndigoShade
06-16-2013, 09:44 AM
Demand I can see as a valid argument. Some people possibly being confused is not. Crypto has been quite clear that this is online only TCG. Any physical offering is obviously for collectors only (or some sort of bar code promotion). I disagree with you on the demand side, but that is something they would probably consider before utilizing anything like my idea.
I think you ...overestimate people.

Icepick
06-16-2013, 10:28 AM
It's a nice idea, though I think a full set might be a bit much. CZE have said that they will never be printing full sets of cards anyway, though they might do a few individual cards as promo/collectors items at some point.

x78089
06-16-2013, 12:15 PM
I think you ...overestimate people.

No, I just don't care. It is not a confusing or convoluted topic. If you (not you specifically) cannot follow the logic train that this would create, then I doubt you would be successful enough in the game to ever get to the point of this being an issue for you. Just b/c someone might be confused about something is not a good reason to not create it.

x78089
06-16-2013, 12:16 PM
It's a nice idea, though I think a full set might be a bit much. CZE have said that they will never be printing full sets of cards anyway, though they might do a few individual cards as promo/collectors items at some point.

Ohh, I did not realize they already put the kibosh on printing sets. Well hopefully they reconsider. I would love the thrill of chasing a complete set so I can get my physical cards (assuming this is the only way to get them).

DjiN
06-16-2013, 12:18 PM
Just b/c someone might be confused about something is not a good reason to not create it.

This is just an uneducated personal statement. Actually this is one of the main aspects that drives modern product and game design.

IndigoShade
06-16-2013, 12:23 PM
No, I just don't care.

Eh, just because you don't care doesn't mean Cyrptozoic shouldn't.

x78089
06-16-2013, 12:35 PM
This is just an uneducated personal statement. Actually this is one of the main aspects that drives modern product and game design.

I disagree with your assertion. I also take offense to the nature of your word choice. That aside, we are arguing apples and oranges. I agree with you that simpler is better in game design. However, I am not asking for a change to game design. Merely an outlet/use for the cards outside of the game. If this confuses anyone it does not detract from the playability of the game. To use your vernacular, you made an uneducated personal statement.

As an aside, on these forums everything is a personal statement. There is no reason to attack an opposing person for disagreeing with you. Notice when I responded with my statement I did not attack the poster, I disagreed with their opinion. EDIT: This last statement is in response to the quote Djin utilized.

x78089
06-16-2013, 12:41 PM
Eh, just because you don't care doesn't mean Cyrptozoic shouldn't.

Point taken. It seems my idea has not been received well. This has turned in to a debate on the reasoning process of the average HEX player and not at all about my idea. So, I guess it is time to move on. Thank you all for your input and time spent considering my position.

Stok3d
06-16-2013, 12:46 PM
I prefer to keep this digital only minus a promo card here and there (nothing with intent to play... just have) or even CZE printing off the DL+ personal cards and sending a handful to each person...

Banquetto
06-16-2013, 02:28 PM
No, I just don't care. It is not a confusing or convoluted topic. If you (not you specifically) cannot follow the logic train that this would create, then I doubt you would be successful enough in the game to ever get to the point of this being an issue for you. Just b/c someone might be confused about something is not a good reason to not create it.

Personally, I think CZE should not sell t-shirts, because some people might get confused about the fact that they can't equip the shirt onto one of their cards in-game.

heavyhitter86
06-16-2013, 02:29 PM
x78089 ... If you haven't thought of a league yet or joined one I would like you to consider the Dragonborns. My (possibly) garish signature aside, I really like your style and intelligence level (especially the way you ended your thread) and I think you would fit in very well with those in our group.

x78089
06-16-2013, 03:33 PM
personally, i think cze should not sell t-shirts, because some people might get confused about the fact that they can't equip the shirt onto one of their cards in-game.

ftw!

x78089
06-16-2013, 03:34 PM
x78089 ... If you haven't thought of a league yet or joined one I would like you to consider the Dragonborns. My (possibly) garish signature aside, I really like your style and intelligence level (especially the way you ended your thread) and I think you would fit in very well with those in our group.

I have not yet entertained the notion of joining a league/guild/whatever they are called in HEX, but if I do I will consider yours. Thanks.

DreamPuppet
06-16-2013, 09:32 PM
That is the only thing that i hate about digital anything, at some point they'll shut off the HEX servers and you'll have nothing left, your grand kids won't go through the attic and find a babe ruth rookie card laying in a box wrapped in plastic that they can sell for a down payment on a house.

Whether you spend $200 or $20,000 on HEX in the end you'll end up with jack & poop.

ZillahEnoch
06-16-2013, 10:07 PM
I agree that this differs significantly from MtG in that physical cards aren't realistically playable but the core idea of having a card sink which generates a collectable is kind of cool and in the long run only increases the value of the other cards as it shrinks the market.

That said as the cards wouldn't be playable in a physical form why not make the collectible something else but generated by the same method such as a limited edition art book available only by surrendering a collection etc. I would rather have the digital cards but some physical manifestation may interest others.

Why did nobody on this topic pay attention to that comment ?

I think the core idea of the OP is getting something physical from your digital cards and providing some kind of card sink.
It might not be a bad idea, what do you think ?

Punk
06-16-2013, 11:18 PM
I think that the OP has a good idea. An example that I thought of would be to trade in 10/15/20 copies of whatever rare for a limited print of the art to be sent to you. People that would want that chase, bomb legendary art can definitely obtain it, but it will definitely hurt their trade binder / wallet to do so. Maybe every month, Cryptozoic will release 5 different possible art prints that you can redeem, limit 1000. This would not only remove lots of cards from the community, but it would also help out the artists since they would be commissioned for the art prints.

ossuary
06-17-2013, 03:27 AM
I'm not opposed to limited edition prints of specific cards, in fact I like the idea. It's just the on-demand, full set cashout that I disagree with - too costly for CZE.

Arbiter
06-17-2013, 04:01 AM
What about a set of uncut card sheets? Collectible, uses the card art and clearly unplayable.

Punk
06-17-2013, 04:28 AM
What about a set of uncut card sheets? Collectible, uses the card art and clearly unplayable.

Yes, yes, 1,000 times yes.

Qorsair
06-17-2013, 08:04 AM
I'd like to see the on-demand full set printing, just for the collectible aspect (obviously you couldn't reasonably play a game with them). Just limit it to 1000 sets initially (limited to PVP cards only), charge $100 to cover the printing costs, and additional cost for shipping.

I know I'd do it.

Shadowelf
06-17-2013, 08:12 AM
I'd prefer a poster like the one coming with mtg's fat packs, with pics of all the cards in physical size, or a booklet. I don't know if there will be enough ppl buying uncut print sheets of a digital tcg (especially at $100 each), to justify printing them

x78089
06-17-2013, 08:13 AM
I'd like to see the on-demand full set printing, just for the collectible aspect (obviously you couldn't reasonably play a game with them). Just limit it to 1000 sets initially (limited to PVP cards only), charge $100 to cover the printing costs, and additional cost for shipping.

I know I'd do it.


This is another decent derivative of my idea. I personally like having to "work" a little bit to "earn" the right to receive the collectible, but your idea is just as valid as mine.

Aldazar
06-17-2013, 08:52 AM
Personally, I think CZE should not sell t-shirts, because some people might get confused about the fact that they can't equip the shirt onto one of their cards in-game.

+1 for the awesomeness of this statement!

Aldazar
06-17-2013, 09:02 AM
I think it's definitely a cool idea! As for people getting confused and thinking they can play the game with the cards, with all the disclaimers about the game being digital only, if you still get confused, you have bigger problems. Moreover, they could easily put a huge red check box warning that you have to check in order to complete the process saying "I AGREE THAT I AM NOT RETARDED AND I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT I CANNOT PLAY THIS GAME WITH PHYSICAL CARDS!"

As a spin-off of the original idea, because I agree that it may not be financially viable for CZE to offer entire set exchanges for physical or the like, how about, for example, if you complete a specifically defined set of rares, you can exchange it for 1 of a limited series of 100 super cool posters, or a giant (as in bigger than playing size, not necessarily several sqft) card for a collection. So, maybe you collect all the rare shin'hare (is that how you spell it?) heroes (I have no idea if there is such a thing, I just made it up for an example) - you would then have the opportunity to "redeem" them for a 4"x5" card of a fictional shin'hare super-hero card which doesn't exist in the game and was invented specifically for this purpose. It can never be played in-game and is purely for collectors/for fun.

They could even change it up sometimes and have the set be exchangeable for a soft toy or a set of dice or a mug or whatever the heck people who are actually creative (not me) can come up with! Would be something interesting to experiment with, I reckon...

CZE could run these things as and when they see fit, whether it be several at a time all the time, once a month, on special holidays, or once a year - whatever the see fit to do/can fit in their budget. I don't envision it as a massive money making opportunity for them (although I suppose it could be structured to be that way), but rather as a way for them to reward collectors, remove some card inflation, drive people to collect sets, and just add another awesome aspect to the game. I suppose having physical goods from the game in the real world also provides "free" advertising if other people see them?

Note: I'm not claiming/asserting that we are entitled to this or any crap, just throwing it out there as a potentially cool idea...

Qorsair
06-17-2013, 09:08 AM
This is another decent derivative of my idea. I personally like having to "work" a little bit to "earn" the right to receive the collectible, but your idea is just as valid as mine.

Oh, I meant $100 in addition to turning in a full set of digitals.

Kalium
06-17-2013, 09:30 AM
If all you are looking for is the artwork... then how about a limited edition art book that collects the images from each set... even cards that transition into something different.

Just a thought,
Kalium

BossHoss
06-17-2013, 09:57 AM
How about doing it through the Void Society?

"Shred" your complete set and gain the Unique crafting material to be redeemed at the CZE store... Limited to the first "X" people to create this crafting material, after which the Void Society no longer accepts sets, and CZE does a very collectible limited run of "X" complete printed sets.

The collector side of me is going to scramble a set together ASAP to redeem...

Qorsair
06-17-2013, 10:16 AM
How about doing it through the Void Society?

"Shred" your complete set and gain the Unique crafting material to be redeemed at the CZE store... Limited to the first "X" people to create this crafting material, after which the Void Society no longer accepts sets, and CZE does a very collectible limited run of "X" complete printed sets.

The collector side of me is going to scramble a set together ASAP to redeem...

I like it. I like it a lot. :) This gives people an incentive to turn in the cards, but gives CZE a timeframe to work in so they don't have to worry about 1-off print runs. They could just set the deadline to turn in the set near the release of the next set.

Also, have a required threshold of sets being turned in. For example, if less than 1000 sets are turned in, everyone just gets the cards they turned in "refunded" from the void and CZE doesn't do the print run.

I also wouldn't be opposed to an additional fee to get your printed set.

ossuary
06-17-2013, 11:01 AM
That's... actually a really smart way to do it. I could get behind that. As long as the sets are not free. CZE is giving away enough as it is. ;)

So the first X number of people who destroy an entire set of digital cards via the Void Society get access to purchase the limited edition print run of the same cards. Book it!

I still like the idea of extra prints or the art book, too, though.

BossHoss
06-17-2013, 11:27 AM
I am definitely not asking for it to be free. (Free also affects collectible value)

Void Society already charges gold to "teach" the secrets of crafting materials and since this would be a Unique opportunity each set, the Void Society could charge a general fee in Plat instead to cover the print run cost. As it is too hard to generalize shipping, each individual would then be responsible to cover shipping separately outside the game.

"I still like the idea of extra prints or the art book, too, though."

There could even be options of recipes to choose from at the Void Society, all being limited. As I write this I am starting to lean more towards this:

Void Society "shreds" a complete set and collects 50 Plat
BossHoss is 16/250 for "Set 1" hardcover art book
~Set 1 Book contains:~
-The card art for all cards PvP/PvE
-The Set 1 stories and lore
-Void Society "donators"
-Concept/Finalized Art
-Spine stamp rarity 16/250
-Sneak Peek art for next set
-Etc.

This could definitely make me pay a PvE grinder for a couple cards giving them an opportunity to play PvP "free"

x78089
06-17-2013, 07:50 PM
All of these ideas seem cool. Especially the crafting an item and CZE only creating the print run if enough people opt in. That makes it much more feasible. I do somewhat disagree with the fee structure you guys have envisioned. If we have already paid for a substantial # of cards and are covering the shipping, a more modest fee to cover printing charges seems more justified. If this idea seels a few hundredm ore packs across the player realm it can easily pay for itself from CZEs POV. Just a thought.

ossuary
06-17-2013, 08:10 PM
All of these ideas seem cool. Especially the crafting an item and CZE only creating the print run if enough people opt in. That makes it much more feasible. I do somewhat disagree with the fee structure you guys have envisioned. If we have already paid for a substantial # of cards and are covering the shipping, a more modest fee to cover printing charges seems more justified. If this idea seels a few hundredm ore packs across the player realm it can easily pay for itself from CZEs POV. Just a thought.

The printing costs need to be "new money" in addition to the cost in cards, otherwise players could just trade around amongst themselves without injecting any additional platinum, and CZE is out extra money to provide the print run (which are often actually more expensive in small runs than in large ones, unless you run your own facility, which obviously has its own issues and costs). Having an additional real money cost ensures that CZE isn't sinking profit money to provide yet more freebies.

I'm not saying they wouldn't do it, because we all know they're awesome dudes, I'm just saying if we want something special and collectible, we have to be willing to pony up some cash to get it.