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kvich
06-17-2013, 03:55 AM
Not sure if its been ask but I know I am too lazy too look for it If it had but with primal pack do the boosters automatically turn in to it when u buy it or do u open the booster to reveal the primal pack? Sorry for the bad english and spelling I on type this ony phone at work.

Justinkp
06-17-2013, 04:03 AM
Not sure if its been ask but I know I am too lazy too look for it If it had but with primal pack do the boosters automatically turn in to it when u buy it or do u open the booster to reveal the primal pack? Sorry for the bad english and spelling I on type this ony phone at work.

As far as I understand it becomes a primal pack when you purchase it, not when you open it. At least I've never heard the latter mentioned as a possibility.

Justin

kvich
06-17-2013, 04:11 AM
Ok was just wondering because of the booster price talk that's one way they can keep u from buy from them instead of the AH by making u not know if they are primal til u open the pack and reveal it

DisOrd3r
06-17-2013, 04:39 AM
When you buy/win them they have a chance to "transform" in to a primal :)

Justinkp
06-17-2013, 04:45 AM
Ok was just wondering because of the booster price talk that's one way they can keep u from buy from them instead of the AH by making u not know if they are primal til u open the pack and reveal it

Yes, I've made the same point that the people speculating on AH booster prices sometimes don't seem to be taking into account the probability and value of primal packs. Until we have that information its hard to come up with reasonable speculation (although posts by Yoss factor in assumptions about primal probability (he assumes 1%) and value (he assumes 15 times the value of a normal booster I believe), this is better than nothing but we have no way of knowing how reasonable those assumptions are).

Justin

kvich
06-17-2013, 04:50 AM
Yes I know they have a chance if u buy or win them but i am talking about if CZE made u not know if it was until after u open them then the AH price would be close to or if not exaxtly what CZE is since it be equal chance no matter how u get them. So CZE would make more money.

DisOrd3r
06-17-2013, 04:53 AM
You will know before you open them.
So boosters on AH won't be able to
turn into primals.

Justinkp
06-17-2013, 05:00 AM
Yes I know they have a chance if u buy or win them but i am talking about if CZE made u not know if it was until after u open them then the AH price would be close to or if not exaxtly what CZE is since it be equal chance no matter how u get them. So CZE would make more money.

I don't think I understand your reasoning and misunderstood in my above response. If they keep it so you know when you buy it from them if its primal this encourages you to buy from them rather than the AH as no pack will ever turn primal from the AH. Making it turn primal after you open it makes it just as likely that an AH booster will be primal as one bought directly from CZE so would seem to lead them to making less money. I don't understand your logic on pricing on the AH, it may make prices increase slightly but I doubt it would be that significant. I can only see CZE losing by making the packs turn primal after opening but perhaps I'm not understanding your point.

Justin

jaxsonbateman
06-17-2013, 05:04 AM
Yeah, that final point Kvich made is just wrong. If it was only found out after you open the booster, it'd be less money as you'd always just buy off the AH, which has to always be cheaper than CZE (otherwise you just buy off the store instead). There's pretty much zero chance that CZE would make more money by having you find out after you open the booster, and as such it's virtually a 100% chance that they'd lose money by doing so.

It's a moot point though as I'm pretty sure they've stated that when you buy or win a booster it can immediately turn into a primal.

Justinkp
06-17-2013, 05:12 AM
Yeah, that final point Kvich made is just wrong. If it was only found out after you open the booster, it'd be less money as you'd always just buy off the AH, which has to always be cheaper than CZE (otherwise you just buy off the store instead). There's pretty much zero chance that CZE would make more money by having you find out after you open the booster, and as such it's virtually a 100% chance that they'd lose money by doing so.

It's a moot point though as I'm pretty sure they've stated that when you buy or win a booster it can immediately turn into a primal.

I'm almost positive they've stated this, though I'm not sure if they've said for VIP boosters which I'm interested to know (I assume its just like buying a booster but not positive).

I was pretty sure the point he was making was just wrong, but was afraid I was missing something obvious. But I don't see any way that making the packs turn primal when you open them could help CZE.

jaxsonbateman
06-17-2013, 05:17 AM
Exactly. If you lose the incentive of a potential primal (which does make the store boosters worth more than the AH boosters), then you lose the incentive to ever buy boosters from the CZE store. It'd be a terrible business decision.

kvich
06-17-2013, 05:50 AM
Ok sorry that I am confusing people because I am at work on my phone so trying to do it in as little words as possible. But how would CZE lose money doing ot after u open the pack because If u did that who would put it on thr AH for less then CZE of they don't know if it was primal or not unless they were trting to make a quick buck. And yes before u say oh u will know before I do know that I was say what if u didn't u would sell it for much less then 2 bucks if u didn't know or not. Not saying lose the incentive of it being primal but saying delay know til after u open. So there u would be more like to buy from CZE then a person since the price would be nearly or the same.

jaxsonbateman
06-17-2013, 05:58 AM
You might need to retype that when you get home; it's very hard to see what your point is.

Here's the bottom line:
1. It's impossible for any sane person to buy a booster for more than $2, as they can get it cheaper from the CZE store. Therefore, an AH booster will always be less than $2.
2. If the chance of getting a primal is the same from the store as it is from the AH (which it would be if you didn't know until you opened the pack), then there's no extra incentive to buy the booster from the CZE store (and that chance to become a primal does add value to the pack). Because there's no extra incentive, the best pack to buy is always the cheapest pack.
3. Because the CZE store packs are set in stone and the AH prices are not, and because of point 1 the AH packs will always be below $2, the AH packs will always be bought instead of CZE packs.

They lose money because it becomes absurd for anyone to buy packs from the CZE store. As it stands now, with the store boosters having a chance of becoming a primal and the AH boosters not having that chance, there's the possibility for AH boosters to reach a high enough price that buying from the CZE is the smart choice (I mean, it's not smart for people to sell boosters for that much, but some people will be silly enough to buy them if they don't know the maths behind how primals affect the worth of normal boosters).

kvich
06-17-2013, 06:05 AM
Yes but u keep saying u buy from the AH but who would put it on the AH for less not knowing. One of the main reason AH right now will go for less is because they can't be primal what do u think they would cost off the AH of they could?

jaxsonbateman
06-17-2013, 06:11 AM
What the...? Why would anyone put it on the AH for more than the CZE store? You know what will happen if someone puts it on the AH for more than $2?

People buy their boosters from the CZE store instead in order to save money.

People aren't that stupid. They'd definitely put their boosters on the AH for less than $2, and people would never buy from the CZE store unless the AH completely ran out of stock - and what are the odds of that happening.

Justinkp
06-17-2013, 06:12 AM
Jackson pretty much nailed it-there's no way for CZE to win by making packs turn primal after opening. Besides the points he made you're assuming the prices on the AH would rise greatly for no clear reason that I can see. How much they'll rise depends on the probability of a pack becoming primal and the value of a primal pack vs. a regular pack, data we do not have. Maybe this will cause the price to rise substantially, maybe not. But the main point as Jackson explained was the prices will never rise above $2 and will always be at least a little under $2 or there'd be no reason to put it on the AH in the first place-so you'd always be better off buying from the AH rather than CZE. Again, they can only lose with your idea I'm afraid.

Justin

kvich
06-17-2013, 06:14 AM
Not say they put it on for more then 2 but there wouldn't be that many on there if u didnt if it was or not. That is what I been trying to say there would be few or none on there if u didn't know and so then u would be buying from CZE

Justinkp
06-17-2013, 06:17 AM
Yes but u keep saying u buy from the AH but who would put it on the AH for less not knowing. One of the main reason AH right now will go for less is because they can't be primal what do u think they would cost off the AH of they could?

One of the main reasons boosters may be cheap on the AH at first is because many people will have so many of them due to kickstarter rewards. The fact that they may become primal won't much effect the person who has 600+ boosters and wants to make money to draft.

Justin

jaxsonbateman
06-17-2013, 06:19 AM
Really can't understand what you're trying to say, but the only situation this works under is if the auction house has no boosters selling on it. If a player puts a booster on the AH, it is always going to be less than $2, unless, quite frankly, they're an idiot. So the only way CZE makes more money is if the boosters circulating in the player base dry up, and between VIP and tournament queues that's not likely to happen.

Also, even with the current implementation (only boosters obtained from CZE can turn into primals), if players are smart about the selling price of the boosters on the AH people still won't buy from CZE. Assuming that there's a 1% chance of a CZE store booster turning into a primal, and a primal sells for $25, the maximum an AH booster should be is $1.75. Of course, not everyone is going to realise what the upper limit is and so the price has the chance to rise above that - but it's always going to be less than $2, whether primals are obtained immediately, or upon opening them.

Justinkp
06-17-2013, 06:22 AM
Not say they put it on for more then 2 but there wouldn't be that many on there if u didnt if it was or not. That is what I been trying to say there would be few or none on there if u didn't know and so then u would be buying from CZE

You don't know there will be few or none on there for less than $2. Besides the large number of KS boosters, people may sell their $1 VIP boosters or prize boosters from tournaments. As long as there are any on there for less than $2 CZE loses as they no longer have anything that makes their boosters better.

Justin

kvich
06-17-2013, 06:29 AM
Yes but as of right now there be a ton more on there for drafts and so even few will buy right now. So of they did that they be less on the AH for drafts and that and in the long run they would make more

kvich
06-17-2013, 06:36 AM
And everyone keeps saying be so many booster because of ks but guess what they will dry up people will open them and there will be more the ks people playing this game so the fact people keep bring up ks is pointlesd because those packs don't last forever so there is a time table of them drying up

jaxsonbateman
06-17-2013, 06:39 AM
Look. The only time this benefits CZE is if there are no boosters on the AH. And you can't even say this benefits them anymore than the current system, because...

If there are no boosters on the AH, people are going to buy from CZE anyway. Having to open a booster to see if it's a primal is worse than what they've put in place, and it loses them money as there's absolutely no incentive to buy CZE boosters over AH boosters (whereas if CZE boosters can be primals and AH ones can't, like is currently the case, there's at least some incentive to buy CZE over the AH boosters if the price difference is small enough).

Justinkp
06-17-2013, 06:40 AM
And everyone keeps saying be so many booster because of ks but guess what they will dry up people will open them and there will be more the ks people playing this game so the fact people keep bring up ks is pointlesd because those packs don't last forever so there is a time table of them drying up

Yes but there will always be VIP boosters and boosters won as prizes that people are willing to sell. And there will continue to be people willing to sell them, under your plan the price may go up a bit but will always be less than $2, thus CZE loses.

Justin

Mahes
06-17-2013, 06:43 AM
Packs will not turn into Primal packs after being opened for one major reason. It would be a pain in the rear to do "Drafts" if a player could open a pack and suddenly it was a primal. All that would do would irritate the player who opened the primal and make them rage up on thier computer. The idea is that the game is meant to be fun, not to be a headache.

Justinkp
06-17-2013, 06:47 AM
Packs will not turn into Primal packs after being opened for one major reason. It would be a pain in the rear to do "Drafts" if a player could open a pack and suddenly it was a primal. All that would do would irritate the player who opened the primal and make them rage up on thier computer. The idea is that the game is meant to be fun, not to be a headache.

There could be ways around this like if it detects the pack would be a primal it just makes your next non draft pack a primal. But there's no reason to do this as there's no reason to make packs turn primal upon opening.

Justin

hammer
06-17-2013, 07:26 AM
I never see Sales Tax mentioned in the discussion of booster pack prices. I live in the UK and as such will be subject to value Added Tax at 20% on all purchases directly from CZE. This means that each booster I buy from CZE costs $2.4 and dont even get me started on the exchange rate. So I might actually be better buying a secondhand booster via the Auction House for more than the stated $2 booster price cap.

JoB3nder
06-17-2013, 08:10 AM
I never see Sales Tax mentioned in the discussion of booster pack prices. I live in the UK and as such will be subject to value Added Tax at 20% on all purchases directly from CZE. This means that each booster I buy from CZE costs $2.4 and dont even get me started on the exchange rate. So I might actually be better buying a secondhand booster via the Auction House for more than the stated $2 booster price cap.

That is an interesting point hammer. We really don't know how taxes will figure into these calculations. In the US, sales tax is calculated by state under the idea of Nexus. Now CZE might have nexus in a number of states, I'm not sure of the full extent of their operations. But I doubt JoeSchmo Hexer would have nexus, so buying from the AH might have a slight cost advantage in that way as well.

downtreader
06-17-2013, 10:04 AM
in the US would we still have to pay tax in-game on a non-physical item? i assumed taxes would be covered on CZEs end via income taxes. but perhaps not.

secondary question: in theory, if a pack does become a primal on purchase from CZE, would it then be denoted as such and be able to be put on the AH as a publicly obvious primal pack?

Aradon
06-17-2013, 10:08 AM
Yes, when you purchase a pack and it is a primal pack, you'll receive a primal pack instead. It will obviously be a primal pack, and can be traded as such.
I think you'd pay sales tax on plat that you purchase, so buying on the AH will amount to the same thing, unfortunately.

downtreader
06-17-2013, 10:16 AM
huh, i don't think i pay sales tax on gem purchases through gw2 or on itunes in-app purchases, unless that technically falls under the "declaring qualifying online purchases" on my yearly taxes... if so, whoops.

Aradon
06-17-2013, 10:21 AM
huh, i don't think i pay sales tax on gem purchases through gw2 or on itunes in-app purchases, unless that technically falls under the "declaring qualifying online purchases" on my yearly taxes... if so, whoops.

I really don't know, then. Don't mind me :P

hammer
08-05-2013, 10:34 PM
I know the boosters in the kickstarter tier have a chance to be primal but what about the chance of primal from booster generated for (and used in) the free drafts? Presumably boosters for the free draft are generated by CZE prior to the draft and at the point of generation there is a chance for the pack to be primal - But that would be odd since then another non-primal pack would need to be generated in order to proceed to drafting the free draft. I am not sure how this will work but there are some implications for the value of the tiers with free drafts if the entry packs can or cannot become primal??

Malicus
08-05-2013, 10:37 PM
I know the boosters in the kickstarter tier have a chance to be primal but what about the chance of primal from booster generated for (and used in) the free drafts? Presumably boosters for the free draft are generated by CZE prior to the draft and at the point of generation there is a chance for the pack to be primal - But that would be odd since then another non-primal pack would need to be generated in order to proceed to drafting the free draft. I am not sure how this will work but there are some implications for the value of the tiers with free drafts if the entry packs can or cannot become primal??

They will not be primal for the reasons you stated - don't remember if it was a comment or in one of the updates but it was an official poster who said it.

The value of the free drafts is irrelevant at this point and was a known quantity when backed. So a non-issue.

hammer
08-05-2013, 10:44 PM
Thanks Malicus - that makes sense; agree it is a non-issue just curiosity.

Gorgol
08-05-2013, 11:40 PM
yay for necros

Kami
08-06-2013, 05:53 AM
Please don't necro very old threads.