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GreyGriffin
06-18-2013, 09:59 AM
Ok, I can hear the hue and cry already, so hear me out first.

Will there be an activity analogous to fishing in Hex? I think that an activity like fishing would be very important, especially for casual players.

I believe that Fishing in most MMOs is a work of underappreciated genius. Fishing allows you to sit back, relax, and socialize while playing the game. Because it is not intense and interactive, you can treat it as downtime, chat with your guildies, and "be productive" while you wait for your raid to queue up. Furthermore, it allows you to break the pace, creating a low intensity, low investment moment that for most games you would have to log out to get.

By creating that mental space inside the game, you enable a full activity curve without logging out, making it more fun for everybody, especially people who need a little breather after an intense match and don't want to play back to back games.

Now, it doesn't have to be fishing per se, but you get the gist. Thoughts?

keroko
06-18-2013, 10:00 AM
there's to be some form of crafting for pve isn't there? I dimly remember rumors of it.

im not doing dailys in hex. I'd rather pay 2USD.

Diesbudt
06-18-2013, 10:07 AM
there's to be some form of crafting for pve isn't there? I dimly remember rumors of it.

im not doing dailys in hex. I'd rather pay 2USD.

Crafting is just in the form of breaking cards down into materials, then using those materials to build a new card.

keroko
06-18-2013, 10:11 AM
right, like we do with materials in real life for object construction, and its how poop gets made and things grow.

wonder if they'll have crafting 'procs' for output card from crafting processes.

Frey
06-18-2013, 10:46 AM
I'm not 100% sure, however crafting is not for cards, it's for equipment.

Back to the topic. I totally agree with author. MMO without fishing is not a MMO ;) I think I could be a good time waster ;)

Corpselocker
06-18-2013, 10:54 AM
Oddly enough, I enjoy fishing in my MMO's as well. Next thread? How to stop fishing bots :P

Dralon
06-18-2013, 11:00 AM
MMO fishing is awesome!

Yeah we have been discussing fishing mechanics for Hex on the Utopian Chaos forums for a few days now. Key is to have something at one point mindless, passing the time activity, with the occassional random "rare fish" AI battle!

3HoursDungeon
06-18-2013, 11:02 AM
Plus one from me. I'd appreciate extra activities that would have a positive effect on our collections.

Aradon
06-18-2013, 11:03 AM
While I rarely care for fishing in my games and see it as somewhat tacked on, your post is quite excellent. Nice observations and analysis, and in light of your statements, I wouldn't mind seeing an analog in Hex :)

Shadowelf
06-18-2013, 11:09 AM
I'm not 100% sure, however crafting is not for cards, it's for equipment.



Not only u will be able to craft equipment with ur mats, but also cards and cosmetics for ur hero. Confirmed by Cory in one of the vids

+1 about fishing, love it for the exact same reasons as OP

baggymacaw
06-18-2013, 11:13 AM
It would seem a good thing to have multiple things to play at, fishing, crafting, even something like Wow's archaeology. More ways to keep a player online and building character(s) seems like a good thing.

Gen91
06-18-2013, 11:15 AM
Plz no fishing, it's just a total useless timesink
(and in some MMOs like WoW it's needed to get buff food, so it's a necessity [or pay gold for it], what's really annoing).

A TCG doesn't need your full attention, so you can chat and socialise additionally.

Corpselocker
06-18-2013, 11:26 AM
Proud member of Hex Fishing Union #301: Fair Pay for Fine Flounder.

majin
06-18-2013, 11:28 AM
i personally don't like this kind of activity but I am in favor of this based on the OPs reasoning. yes it is a time sink and not for everyone but because it will allow you to socialize, I am okay with it for those who like doing this kind of activity

ConnorJS
06-18-2013, 11:33 AM
Sounds awesome, gives us non Lotus Garden owners to have something to log on for each day ;D.

Punk
06-18-2013, 11:37 AM
MMO fishing is awesome!

Yeah we have been discussing fishing mechanics for Hex on the Utopian Chaos forums for a few days now. Key is to have something at one point mindless, passing the time activity, with the occassional random "rare fish" AI battle!

You gotta fish up The Kraken and fight him to loot his card.

Dun, Dun, DUNNNNNNN.

Frey
06-18-2013, 11:39 AM
Sounds awesome, gives us non Lotus Garden owners to have something to log on for each day ;D.

Hehe Excellent point ;)

Shadowelf
06-18-2013, 11:47 AM
Actually i think its a brilliant idea...u could fish anything from mats, gold, cards, boosters and even spectral lotuses (nice for those that don't have gardens to have a chance for a lotus)

ConnorJS
06-18-2013, 12:21 PM
Actually i think its a brilliant idea...u could fish anything from mats, gold, cards, boosters and even spectral lotuses (nice for those that don't have gardens to have a chance for a lotus)

I think that it would have to be PvE rewards, as it could easily be farmed and exploit the PvP market. I love the idea of spectral lotuses though :P

GreyGriffin
06-18-2013, 12:28 PM
Fishing up items that could "launch" a PvE Battle is a great idea. Crafting mats (or items that can be traded for materials, if materials are not very granular).

Some other things you could fish up/farm/mine/shepherd


one-use/consumable PvE cards and gear
"Greys" to sell for gold
Treasure chests!
New and improved fishing cards to improve your fishing deck's fishing potential to the max.

RobHaven
06-18-2013, 12:29 PM
I don't like the idea of fishing up a Lotus at all. You're worried about the PvP market being exploited, but the Lotus has the potential to be a very sought-after commodity (pending scarcity), and you're giving the greenlight for them to be obtained through a fishing...

I am completely down with adding a "fishing" to the game, whether I would use it or not. I just don't want the rewards to be something that diminishes any other aspect/reward/whatever in the game currently.

ConnorJS
06-18-2013, 12:31 PM
I don't like the idea of fishing up a Lotus at all. You're worried about the PvP market being exploited, but the Lotus has the potential to be a very sought-after commodity (pending scarcity), and you're giving the greenlight for them to be obtained through a fishing...

Eventually they will lose value, although a lot of them will be used and transformed I think many players will just buy 4 and that's that. Although I guess in a tough raid/dungeon they will become too tempting for players to leave :P.

Delrusant
06-18-2013, 12:31 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *runs away from the MMO crazies
better had taverns withlaunching card dart game than fishing

GreyGriffin
06-18-2013, 12:31 PM
I agree that the rewards for fishing have to be kept tamped down. Playing the game itself should always be the best time investment in terms of rewards. Consumables and one-time-use PvE items and cards for your sideboard and greys (or "gold in disguise") are some of the best options I think.

jai151
06-18-2013, 12:33 PM
They will not put a source of lotii in the world, it would be going back on their word to not allow kickstarter rewards to be available outside of the campaign.

ConnorJS
06-18-2013, 12:48 PM
I think a different kind of treasure chest would be cool, like a 'Rusted chest' or something like that with PvE rewards in.

taveren
06-18-2013, 12:55 PM
anyone else here spend way to long fishing in the fountain in dalaran for coins

majin
06-18-2013, 01:03 PM
i guess a "wishing well" is the best idea out there, just gift me all the gold and platinum along with your wishes and that's it, you can do it as many times as you want :P

Zophie
06-18-2013, 01:14 PM
I like the idea of having Fishing or something similar, but like others said the rewards would have to be pretty small vendor trash items for normal successes, and a very small chance at finding actual cards or something more rare. Basically they just have to be careful that the chance of a substantial reward is lower with fishing than it is for actual gameplay, while still making it worth people's time to spend fishing in between games.

nicosharp
06-18-2013, 01:17 PM
They already added fishing to Hex....

540K - Add VIP Program at launch. HEX is still free to play. This is just a value add for people who want to opt-in. $4 a month gets you a free booster pack per week, access to a monthly tournament just for subscribers that features juiced prizes, and access to a "goldfish" feature so you can test out your deck's initial draw and first few draws after that. Reward: Champion and above get a free 3 month VIP Program enrollment - Unlocked 5/16

madar
06-18-2013, 01:20 PM
Once our Kickstarter campaign ends, there will never, ever, EVER be another way to get a Spectral Lotus. Period. Except, of course, for the Auction House.

http://hextcg.com/rewards/

and the fishing is a good idea, sometimes i need some brainless timesink, when i dont want to thinking just do something (others watch TV, i would do fishing ^^)

RobHaven
06-18-2013, 01:23 PM
They already added fishing to Hex....

540K - Add VIP Program at launch. HEX is still free to play. This is just a value add for people who want to opt-in. $4 a month gets you a free booster pack per week, access to a monthly tournament just for subscribers that features juiced prizes, and access to a "goldfish" feature so you can test out your deck's initial draw and first few draws after that. Reward: Champion and above get a free 3 month VIP Program enrollment - Unlocked 5/16

boooooooooooooo
This is the kind of crap I yell at my dad for. Unless you're nearing 60, I expect you to bring something better to the table!

nicosharp
06-18-2013, 01:29 PM
boooooooooooooo
This is the kind of crap I yell at my dad for. Unless you're nearing 60, I expect you to bring something better to the table!
but I am. :P

In all honesty though, what you are asking for is a mode to mindlessly make income while socializing.

You are asking for a mini-game that requires no thinking, just clicking.

Maybe they can have some form of spin-the-wheel, but it should require a small investment in gold to play it. (with a 98% payout rate of gold)

Talreth
06-18-2013, 02:13 PM
I hope they have a global/trade chat. Because that is what I do instead of fishing

Yoss
06-18-2013, 03:05 PM
HATE MMO FISHING

-1 from me

Dralon
06-18-2013, 03:09 PM
In all honesty though, what you are asking for is a mode to mindlessly make income while socializing.

You are asking for a mini-game that requires no thinking, just clicking.


Mindless clicking, at times yes, perhaps. But I have never fished in any MMO to make income :) I am way too lazy for that.

Since everyone asked, I will share my Uber fishing system thoughts. :) This is obviously a PVE system only with PVE rewards that is optional. I.E. you shouldn't have to fish to unlock the raid boss for a dungeon, but you may encounter a fishing "node" in the dungeon if you are exploring trying to maximize your end reward.

Ok, so fishing in most MMO's is for the most point, mindless point and click, while you are waiting for groups to form, raids to happen, while you really are supposed to be focused on other things, like watching a movie with the family Smile

So we need something quick and easy you can jump in and out of in the same way. So we need to be able to stumble upon fishing nodes while we are out dungeoning, but we also need a fishing "region" that we can quickly hop in and out of between our dungeoning or PVP adventures.

6 types of fishing "nodes" found in dungeons or in the "fishing region"

1. aboveground pond - shallow fish only - only place to find certain Ardent cards
2. aboveground lake - shallow and deep water fish - only place to find certain Ardent cards
3. Underground pond - shallow underwater fish only - only place to find certain Underworld cards
4. Underground lake - shallow and deep water fish - only place to find certain Underworld cards
5. Coastal shallows - cards and loot from both factions
6. Deep sea - deepwater fish - cards and loot from both factions

All regions you enter, participate in a quick point and click mini-game , perhaps "Go Fish" with the AI - when you make a grouping (2, 3 or 4 of the requested fish) you get the fish - Some common, some uncommon some rare. And how about when you make the Rare pairing you enter into a full on PVE battle with the Rare fish AI deck. You catch the rare fish no matter what, but if you win the Rare fish AI battle, you get that card in a foil or full art version.

Rewards for fishing, could be unique avatar images, titles, card sleeves (perhaps if you catch all fish found in underground lakes, for example, or complete the collection of all rare fish).

you can craft, or find loot drops of lures ,fishing vests or hats and poles you can attach in your Champion's Equipment slots that give you better chances of catching fish, or better loot, etc.

And yes Cory and the creators will be reminded about this at Gencon! :)

nicosharp
06-18-2013, 03:34 PM
Not a bad idea Dralon, but you are making it a mini-game, which PvE questing is already an example of. Castle Defense is already an example of. Not saying more could not be fun. Like a go-fish mode, but anything that requires more thought than clicking when something beeps is more than fishing.

I was thinking about a memory type game for card matching, but this seems trivial. Of course people would do whatever casual mini-game is thrown in, especially if it is tied to incentives. Of course, for casual TCG players the "goldfish" card draw mode and looking at cards/building decks is full-time fishing/social mode. The only difference is you take away the incentives mini-games provide.

Mushroom_C1oud
06-18-2013, 03:57 PM
I can see it now. You fish and you get nothing but these crappy 0/1 fish cards but if you're really lucky you can get the "Legendary" fish which could be like a one time use that turns all your crappy fish into 4/4 invincible fish. You could build a whole deck around your "Legendary" fish and maybe even get an achievement for doing so. This would all be for PvE of course, but it would be a neat little niche goal.

nearlysober
06-18-2013, 04:16 PM
Oh man for the love of god I hope they don't put in stupid, mindless, pointless timesinks like fishing.

As a completionist in WoW, I've felt compelled to keep my fishing skill up on my main. Back in the old school days when it was a pain, it involved many a drunken night after the bar just sitting there... click, click, click while trying to watch TV with the sound low enough to hear the splash.

ZeroCool
06-18-2013, 04:23 PM
Fishing?

/ugh

I really don't want time wasted on something trivial.

Dralon
06-18-2013, 04:40 PM
Fishing?

/ugh

I really don't want time wasted on something trivial.

Heh you realize you are making this comment in regards to a game that 99% of the population would consider trivial :)

If its an element the CZE team feels would interest a significant part of the player base, they will invest in it. If not, they likely won't. I am cool either way, just letting he team know I am in the camp of "yes please"

GreyGriffin
06-18-2013, 04:44 PM
Fishing?

/ugh

I really don't want time wasted on something trivial.

To quote a column I read earlier about "bad" magic cards.

"This card is not for you."

nearlysober
06-18-2013, 04:47 PM
If I have downtime when I'm just "chillin in the game with nothing to do"... then I log off and go do something productive with my life.

Systems like fishing in games, if they provide any sort of incentive or reward... then it becomes something mandatory to do for much of the playerbase, even if they hate it.

jgsugden
06-18-2013, 04:49 PM
There should be a tavern where you throw your cards at a target in a Darts like game....

MrSalty
06-18-2013, 05:05 PM
no...

Shadowelf
06-18-2013, 05:09 PM
They will not put a source of lotii in the world, it would be going back on their word to not allow kickstarter rewards to be available outside of the campaign.

They will still be true to their word since they will be giving lotuses not gardens. If not that then a toned down version of lotus, the coral lotus, that either provides less threshold or no card and summons a reef shark.

majin
06-18-2013, 05:11 PM
@Dralon: that is a great feature that I hope they implement in the future.

As for the others that don't like this feature, it's okay that you don't want it, i don't want it too but still, there may be others who want something like this so I am okay for a "time sink" like this (it be be something different but has the same idea of a timesink) to be added to the game

for a completionist who don't want it but can't help themselves, this is a bad feature indeed :P

Yoss
06-18-2013, 05:12 PM
Systems like fishing in games, if they provide any sort of incentive or reward... then it becomes something mandatory to do for much of the playerbase, even if they hate it.
This.

Please, please do not put in useless drivel!!!! (Unless the drivel has zero reward, in which case it's purely a time sink that people can easily ignore without feeling like they're missing anything.)

Mr.Funsocks
06-18-2013, 06:06 PM
I absolutely loathe that development time ever goes to fishing. I would rather have basically any feature other than fishing in an MMO. Or any game. Fishing minigame in Zelda:OOT? Worst part of the game, by far.

Leperchan5
06-18-2013, 06:20 PM
I think i could be fun if fishing was a special 15-20 (no resource) card deck. The idea is you would get 1 threshold of your choice per turn. and the CPU every turn puts out Fish creature which can range from 1/1 Fish to 5/5 fish... The point of the game would be to get the "Fish Champion" for 20 to 0. This mini game could reward with special PvE Fish cards, or just a small amount of XP.

At least that is how I can see Fishing working in a TCG.

Kietay
06-18-2013, 06:29 PM
I hate to break it to you but compared to most games, a TCG is already like fishing.

sckolar
06-18-2013, 07:48 PM
Not to criticize, but isn't not doing the daily things in the game taking the experience away? I mean, yeah it's a TCG, but it has daily things in the game that most MMOs do.

Fateanomaly
06-18-2013, 08:07 PM
I could never understand the appeal of fishing in games.

wildcard
06-18-2013, 08:11 PM
How about manually unsleeving and resleeving the cards in your deck? Click on the bottom of the sleeved card to pinch the sleeve, rolllll the mouse down to get the top of the card out, a click on the top edge of the exposed card, drag up and whooosh, you're clear of the sleeve... click and slide the new sleeve to get it open just a bit...

Rtsands45
06-18-2013, 09:07 PM
How about manually unsleeving and resleeving the cards in your deck? Click on the bottom of the sleeved card to pinch the sleeve, rolllll the mouse down to get the top of the card out, a click on the top edge of the exposed card, drag up and whooosh, you're clear of the sleeve... click and slide the new sleeve to get it open just a bit...

I second this idea, however I prefer the pull 6 cards out an inch, pinch all 6 cards together, then pull bottom of sleeves routine. Much quicker and more efficient.

Justinkp
06-18-2013, 09:15 PM
I think if they add these types of features they should do it in a new way. There are plenty of MMO features that could be implemented for an MMOTCG. I'd love to see lots of mini games that represent different MMO features done through unique decks and mechanics. I'm surprised there hasn't been more speculation on this kind of thing-the MMOTCG is pretty much a new genre and there's lots of room for innovation. I posted a number of ideas in this vein but didn't get much interest, I expect things like this to happen eventually when they can properly devote development resources to it and are trying to draw other playstyles to the game.

Justin

GreyGriffin
06-20-2013, 07:55 AM
I could never understand the appeal of fishing in games.

Is my post really tl;dr?

Rtsands45
06-20-2013, 08:01 AM
I'm pretty sure they are implementing a a program to allow you to goldfish your deck.

negativeZer0
06-20-2013, 08:07 AM
I'm pretty sure they are implementing a a program to allow you to goldfish your deck.

Someone failed to read anything in the thread at all before posting

Fleckenwhatever
06-20-2013, 08:12 AM
Someone failed to read anything in the thread at all before posting

No, he foolishly hoped that the OP meant "goldfishing," i.e. an activity that has value, instead of "fishing," i.e. an activity in an MMO generally devoid of value.

Rift became free to play a week ago, so I decided to grab it this week to see how it is. Last night I hit level 10 and found a fishing trainer who gave me a quest. Ha ha! I almost thought about completing it. And then I did anything else.

Rtsands45
06-20-2013, 08:41 AM
No, he foolishly hoped that the OP meant "goldfishing," i.e. an activity that has value, instead of "fishing," i.e. an activity in an MMO generally devoid of value.

Rift became free to play a week ago, so I decided to grab it this week to see how it is. Last night I hit level 10 and found a fishing trainer who gave me a quest. Ha ha! I almost thought about completing it. And then I did anything else.

This. Goldfishing is the only kind of fishing for me.

Kamino72
08-02-2013, 05:03 AM
Playing the game itself should always be the best time investment in terms of rewards.
This.

I hate brainless grinding activities. If I am not in the mood for the real game, the best I can do is to go outside and breath some fresh air. I don't want incentives to stay on my computer like a zombie.

My 2 cents.
K.

Dralon
08-02-2013, 07:32 AM
I am enyoying the summer festivals in rift and lotro. Both heavily involve fishing. :). So this I feel would be a source of entertainment for a good number of us.

Stok3d
08-02-2013, 09:19 AM
I'll be blunt about this, fishing in my opinion is a horrible thing for Game Development to spend their time on. If it took 100x hours of game development to code this, there is absolutely nothing I can think of that I would want fishing to take priority over. We are here to play a TCG-MMO. I argue that anything incentivized through a fishing time sink could also be done via crafting (which won't require a direct time sink to craft something).

Basically what I'm saying is that I want to play a card game. Everything in the game should be derived from playing the game. If we need buff pots, it's from crafting extra PVE stuff. If I need XYZ, I get it from playing the card game.

What has no place in this game is:
1. DAILIES. I don't want Hex to feel like a "job" when I log on. It's why I quit WoW (well, that and Hex hit KS ;) )
2. Incentivized Side Games like Fishing. If you want a pond to fish and come up with nothing but useless fish. Fine. Do not add anything that will give an achievement, items playable or usable in game. Again, complenionists don't need to feel compelled to do this mindless task that has nothing to do with playing Hex Cards.

Gwaer
08-02-2013, 09:50 AM
I'm going to talk a little psychology here stoked. Have you ever seen those games that time-gate you? A super popular one going around Facebook right now is called sugar crush. It is basically bejeweled but you have a cap of 5 lives. Every time you fail a mission you lose a life. There are also energy based systems, where you need to much energy to perform an action, and it refreshes at a certain rate. Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade is an example of that.

The reason why these systems work is that they force you to put the game down and pick it back up later, they make the game part of your routine. It's a huge boom psychologically. People will keep playing the games long after they're really enjoying them anymore just on that basis alone. Having a minigame that you can play a few times and put down and come back to later without having to worry about a dungeon encounter or even building a deck would be a boon to the f2p side of the game larger than any other single thing besides 'excellent PVE' let people sink their teeth in a bit at a time, let them put the main game down and kill time with a card based minigame that serves the same function as fishing. This could only be good. It having achievements or giving items would be good too for making players stick around. Even if you could only play it a few times a day, have achievements for playing 10,000 times. The number of people who dislike these minigame and being forced to do them is vanishingly small compared to the number of people who get hooked by them.

Stok3d
08-02-2013, 10:00 AM
I'm going to talk a little psychology here stoked.

Even if you could only play it a few times a day, have achievements for playing 10,000 times.

Let me provide insight to someone with OCD. There are 4x types: Collecting, Counting, Checking, Cleaning. In a game with achievements, many feel "compelled" to try to reach every single one. While this side game that you mention seems innocent--putting an achievement trigger to playing it 10,000 may really make it a miserable experience for many.

I understand what you're saying and support any side game CZE wants to put in. I am not a supporter of these type of achievements or "in game incentives" for playing it though.

Dralon
08-02-2013, 11:51 AM
So we don't put something in a video game that some people may enjoy, because some people with severe OCD can't handle it. Did I get that right? Because that's how the last post reads to me.

Gwaer's post is spot on!

Shadowelf
08-02-2013, 12:46 PM
I don't mind fishing or mini games like fishing aka mindless tasks to pass the time; actually there are times that i'm bored to do anything else but that. So i wouldn't mind if i was doing this and also winning something in the process. But i can also feel the people that don't like it; so maybe if it was implemented, keep the prizes small like gold or tournament tickets.

keldrin
08-03-2013, 08:37 PM
HATE MMO FISHING

-1 from me
I tried fishing in Ultima online. Most boring thing I've ever done.
So, yeah, not interested.
Might as well do a version of angry birds, called "angry Coyotle" trying to knock down the Shin’hare.

dumbelldave
08-04-2013, 12:40 PM
Best part of fishing in an MMO for me is finding a good bot and setting it up just right going to work and coming home with a bunch of new stuff..

Yoss
08-04-2013, 01:48 PM
Best part of fishing in an MMO for me is finding a good bot and setting it up just right going to work and coming home with a bunch of new stuff..
Add this to the reasons NOT to put mini-games in Hex.

Gwaer
08-04-2013, 02:12 PM
Add this to the reasons NOT to put mini-games in Hex.
I agree, it's just as invalid as the rest of the reasons. I like the theme you have going on, best stick to it.

Yoss
08-04-2013, 02:31 PM
I agree, it's just as invalid as the rest of the reasons. I like the theme you have going on, best stick to it.
So we should encourage botting?

keldrin
08-04-2013, 02:43 PM
totally against botting.
If we are doing a mini game, it should require enough interaction to make botting not work.
Admitedly, that impacts its one use for me, namely watching TV, while clicking a button.
But, I hate bots. Waste of system resources. Plus, there's nothing like someone getting way ahead of you, who's invested half the real time you have because they bot.
(uhm... not because they got dungeon crawler) hmm...

Gwaer
08-04-2013, 03:01 PM
Minigames encouraging botting is such a straw man. Of course they should implement minigames that don't make it easy for bots. That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it, though.

Zoelef
08-05-2013, 03:09 AM
Fishing is an activity wherein the participant catches fish
A goldfish is a type of fish
Therefore goldfishing is an activity wherein the participant catches goldfish
And Goldfishing is a subset of the possible types of fishing
Goldfishing is available via the VIP program [1]
Therefore Fishing is available via the VIP program
Therefore Fishing is already in Hex

I'm voting against this, as I believe Keep Defense fulfills the desire of the game-within-a-game we're looking for when asking for Fishing.

[1] - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game (Search for "540k")

RobHaven
08-05-2013, 06:10 AM
...fishing in my opinion is a horrible thing for Game Development to spend their time on. ... there is absolutely nothing I can think of that I would want fishing to take priority over.
I agree that should it be implemented, it's low man on the totem pole.



What has no place in this game is:
...
2. Incentivized Side Games like Fishing. If you want a pond to fish and come up with nothing but useless fish. Fine. Do not add anything that will give an achievement, items playable or usable in game. Again, complenionists don't need to feel compelled to do this mindless task that has nothing to do with playing Hex Cards.

Let me provide insight to someone with OCD. ... In a game with achievements, many feel "compelled" to try to reach every single one. While this side game that you mention seems innocent--putting an achievement trigger to playing it 10,000 may really make it a miserable experience for many.
It's obviously been years since we've played the original launch version of WoW, but from what I remember the fishing in that iteration was not a necessity, it was an option. You could hunt meat from mobs, or you could fish; both yielded cooking mats. I don't see anything wrong with this kind of approach - the fish shouldn't be useless, they should be another option of reaching an endpoint that can also be reached by another means. This way no one feels compelled to fish if they'd rather perform action X, and no one who would rather fish than X feels compelled to X.
As far as completionists and achievements... I have no issues with you needing to do something you don't want to do in order to get all of the achievements. No one should be denied the opportunity to do something they might enjoy just because "you" feel like it's a grind. If we started removing (or blocking the development of) features based on what some sub-set of the playerbase doesn't like to do, we'd have no features left. You think everyone who likes to hunt achievements also likes to PvP? Please remove PvP so I'm not forced to do it. It's unfair to me.


Best part of fishing in an MMO for me is finding a good bot and setting it up just right going to work and coming home with a bunch of new stuff..
I'm assuming this is a joke, but I also want to jump on the "I loathe bots" bandwagon. If they were a physical thing, I would burn them all to the ground.

BlackRoger
08-05-2013, 07:44 AM
-1 to Fishing.
Fishing in WoW was a total waste of my time...
If they're going to insert a mini game at least make it something fun!

DrakarT
08-05-2013, 05:13 PM
E fishes could buff you, like a +X health or something

gohan661
08-05-2013, 06:44 PM
If they add fishing it simply must have no benefits added as it'll then make it a requirement for everyone else. And personally I hate fishing

Gwaer
08-05-2013, 07:18 PM
And personally I hate fishing

That's good, because I love making people required to do things they hate. And obviously what I want outweighs what you want. Oh, right... Individual desires are entirely irrelevant, because they will never entirely coincide. I forgot.

Kates
08-05-2013, 08:47 PM
Despite the fact that I just learned what fishing is earlier today (thanks to those of you that helped) I don't see the harm in it. Though I agree it should not be a high priority for the developers at this moment I think the logic of "I hate it" therefore it should not be in the game is just a touch self-serving. I hate soy milk (I prefer to call it soy juice, but no one would know what I was talking about), but I'm alright with the grocery store selling it. I know plenty of misinformed people will buy and enjoy it. I, however, will not. If you hate fishing just don't fish. I assume that completionists are accustomed to muscling through tedious in game tasks all the time. Isn't this inherent in the bragging rights of playing a game to completion?

MrSalty
08-05-2013, 08:56 PM
or we can just let them finish the actual card game and not waste time on useless crap features like fishing

Mr.Funsocks
08-05-2013, 09:01 PM
If you feel the need to do something banal and boring in the game, it's time to go outside. Seriously. And Kates, the harm in it is developer time is zero-sum. If they spend 5 minutes putting in something banal and boring, that's 5 minutes not spent refining the deck editing interface, or adding more PvE content, or adding new PvP game modes. Maybe 2-3 years down the line, MAYBE, they'll have enough time to waste on something like fishing. Maybe.

Gwaer
08-05-2013, 10:44 PM
Your boring is not someone elses boring. The thing you enjoy is not necessarily what everyone will enjoy. And this could be a major boon for drawing new players. Card mini-games could be HUGE in the f2p world.

Stok3d
08-06-2013, 05:20 AM
If they're going to insert a mini game at least make it something fun!

+1 :)

Kates
08-06-2013, 05:40 AM
I don't object to the fact that fishing is something a lot of people have no interest in. I also agree that it shouldn't be a high priority for CZE at the moment. I know the game hasn't been completed, blah, blah, blah, the priority is PvP and PvE blah, blah, blah. Agreed.

Having said that, the idea that there is no place for it because you personally don't like it is absurd. I am one of the new players that Gwaer has (rightly, I think) pointed out would be interested in mini games that allow you to gain some in-game familiarity with cards.

I will personally be staying away from PvP until I feel comfortable enough to jump on in. I would never advocate anyone else to do the same because of selfish reasons like, "That's what I like/prefer/want". Nor would I encourage CZE to devote their time elsewhere.

This IS a community. CZE is obligated to please as many members of it as possible. It should go without saying that this may not always fulfill your personal desires. I think it's pretty amazing they're as open as they've been to player suggestions. It is unrealistic to think the game is going to be tailor-made to fulfill anyone's personal preferences. There should be something for everyone.

I honestly don't know how much time I would spend fishing. While I am one of these people who do go outside, I'm not about to judge those who would prefer to spend their time doing something I might think is "boring" or a "waste of time". People should have fun where they can find it!

RobHaven
08-06-2013, 08:04 AM
I will personally be staying away from PvP until I feel comfortable enough to jump on in.
That's not entirely true. You're going to be playing (at least) two sealed tournaments a month. I think you'll get a lot out of it. (Drafting the cards would only add another level of strategy that she doesn't need to tack on right now - all you people who [edited for inappropriate content] while thinking about drafts can back off.)
Depending on what options we have, I might create make-shift sealed tournaments for you involving friends so you don't have the pressure of a time limit on deck construction.

Back on the topic of fishing:
I am still here supporting the "your personal desires don't dictate game direction" argument. You can not declare a feature to be "banal and boring" and expect your word to stand as hard fact or a universally accepted truth. If I'm not that into Keep Defense, I'm not going to rally for it to get zero development time just because the game isn't finished. Same with crafting or deck constructing interface refinements or auction houses. None of these things are essential to the core gameplay of PvE or PvP, but we all accept that resources are being allocated to them. This is in part because it's what we [personally] want, and in part because we understand the draw of these features. I would hope that should a hard line be drawn, we'd know enough to argue in favor of the latter well before the former.

What I'm getting at is that I do not care what you (as an individual) want. I don't care what I want. We are votes in a full community. If you want to state your own lack of desire for a specific feature, that's fine...but you don't get to take a dump on the chests of people who do like the feature.

Mr.Funsocks
08-06-2013, 10:29 AM
Sorry, but no, fishing is banal and boring. It's been admitted as such by most of the people who want it: It's something that doesn't have much interest or take much thought so you can just hang out in-game and talk to your friends. That meets the definitions of both banality, and boringness. I don't really care if people want it, it doesn't make it a good idea to spend dev time on something that is banal and boring, and a great many people will just ignore (or feel annoyed at having to do to get important loot).

If they want to make a minigame that is interesting, and not something that is just a way to waste time, then great. Lets not do that either, because that's a significant investment of devtime in a side-game, when the current main game is still pretty barebones. I'd say that in a few years, I may actually find it to be a good idea (unlike a boring timewaster as most are describing, which will always be a pointless addition), but for the forseeable future, the game itself requires that devtime.

RobHaven
08-06-2013, 10:56 AM
How about a minigame where you can buy a Tomagotchi thing to put in your pocket. Each Merc would have its own Mercagotchi for you to play with, but you can only buy it for the Mercs on your account. As you develop your Mercagotchi, you get in-game benefits like boosts to that Mercs XP gains or sweet PvE cards. You have to use in-game mats to make food for your Merc to eat, and when he drops a deuce you can turn that in for crafting mats. If you let your Merc die, he's taken off your account permanently.

If given the choice between "having every member of every soccer team I've ever played on walk up and kick me in the junk as hard as they can" or "play with this Mercagotchi," I'm taking the junk-kicking...but if it drives in people who stick with the game, then it's worth the investment. The draw of the public goes well beyond the sub-50 posters of this forum. Skinner boxes work - just look at that stupid Facebook game where you literally only clicked on cows. That's it. You can't do anything else. And it made BANK.

I find myself to be especially susceptible to skinner boxes, but that's another matter entirely...


EDIT: It's been brought to my attention that the italicized paragraph was being taken literally. Let me just clarify - it's not a legitimate suggestion.

Dralon
08-06-2013, 10:57 AM
Sorry. Funsocks, you don't get to get away with saying fishing is "banal and boring" on its face because you and your cherry picked supporters of fishing say so. I love fishing and Find it neither banal nor boring. While anyone is entitled to their opinion, those who would love to see dev time devoted to the concept are also, despite what you think. This discussion can have differing viewpoints but is being made adversarial and almost hostile by those who are opposed to the idea, which seems childish to me. Your idealized game will not be compromised based on whether or not fishing is implemented. And as it is a VERY common activity found in MULTIPLE MMOs, asking about it is not any more out of line than any other feature request.

Yoss
08-06-2013, 11:44 AM
My opinion, I hope they do not spend time on this right now, but if they do:

It is my impression that most of those opposed to the mini-games would become neutral if the mini-games: (1) did not provide any rewards that were not obtainable elsewhere and (2) were less efficient than the normal means of seeking those rewards.

RobHaven
08-06-2013, 11:47 AM
Building a strong Keep will generate a stream of gold with no work after the initial investment (assuming a successful Keep). That sounds a lot more efficient than grinding dungeons.

Yoss
08-06-2013, 11:56 AM
Building a strong Keep will generate a stream of gold with no work after the initial investment (assuming a successful Keep). That sounds a lot more efficient than grinding dungeons.
It still falls under my statement. If they over-reward Keep Defense, it will, in some sense, become "mandatory". I believe that would be a bad thing. However, I will agree that point (1) in my quote is much more important than point (2).

Gwaer
08-06-2013, 12:13 PM
So you're against them having a custom sleeve you can only get from doing something in the minigames?

Stok3d
08-06-2013, 12:23 PM
It still falls under my statement. If they over-reward Keep Defense, it will, in some sense, become "mandatory". I believe that would be a bad thing. However, I will agree that point (1) in my quote is much more important than point (2).

I personally see Keep Defense as "End Game" PvE. This is entirely different topic though.

I believe Keep Defense needs all the attention in can get. Just my 2cents.

Kates
08-06-2013, 05:27 PM
Two things:

1) Why will I be playing in at least two PvP tournaments a month and 2) I'm missing something: why is Keep Defense pertinent to this conversation? I'm not being a jerk I'm just confused.

Dralon
08-06-2013, 06:31 PM
Two things:

1) Why will I be playing in at least two PvP tournaments a month and 2) I'm missing something: why is Keep Defense pertinent to this conversation? I'm not being a jerk I'm just confused.

I have no idea why #1 was stated. You certainly could participate in 2 tournaments a month, but in no way are required to. I presume keep defense is brought up as a comparison as it is a PVE activity (mini-game) that is not central to core gameplay, but I haven't seen people up in arms about dev resources being devoted to that.

Kates
08-06-2013, 06:42 PM
Thanks, Dralon! Also, I really liked what you said above above with regard to fishing. I agree with you completely. How is your name pronounced? Is it Dray-lon or or does it rhyme with talon?

Mr.Funsocks
08-06-2013, 09:26 PM
Sorry. Funsocks, you don't get to get away with saying fishing is "banal and boring" on its face because you and your cherry picked supporters of fishing say so. I love fishing and Find it neither banal nor boring. While anyone is entitled to their opinion, those who would love to see dev time devoted to the concept are also, despite what you think. This discussion can have differing viewpoints but is being made adversarial and almost hostile by those who are opposed to the idea, which seems childish to me. Your idealized game will not be compromised based on whether or not fishing is implemented. And as it is a VERY common activity found in MULTIPLE MMOs, asking about it is not any more out of line than any other feature request.

This is laughable. EVERYONE's defense of fishing is one of the two things I mentioned: Something mindless to do in-game (which should just not happen), or a full-fledged minigame within the game (which will not happen). That's not cherry-picking, there are no other options. Either it's a mindless skinner-box to get you to stay logged in, or it's a fully-fleshed out minigame that requires substantial dev investment. Neither of those are positives for the actual game, no matter how you dress it up. One is a small amount of dev time for something really pointless, the other is a large amount of dev time for another game that we're just hooking up to Hex.

Games that get fishing usually get it late in development, or it was a game that has a large enough dev team that it's a tiny relative investment. Hell, we already get crafting (which I assume, like most crafting, will be a mindless mini-game).

Nicalapegus
08-06-2013, 09:47 PM
I loathed Fishing in WoW, hope they don't implement it here.

Just open up Plants vs Zombies if you're bored, or Tetris, or something. Or play another game. LOL

Gwaer
08-06-2013, 10:02 PM
The issue isn't us being bored. The issue is that you need a quick and dirty thing that is fun to do that people can get their feet wet with. If it introduces the idea of cards all the better. The mobile marketplace is huge money. Tablet sales will be a driving force in this game, and there needs to be things that people can bite into in very limited time allotments, IE: Fishing, minigames, whatnot. It's doesn't need to be dressed up to see what a boon that would be. If hex had an addictive fun little game associated with it IE candy crush, or whatever the most recent phenomenon is. That's all upside.

Kates
08-07-2013, 07:23 AM
This is laughable. EVERYONE's defense of fishing is one of the two things I mentioned: Something mindless to do in-game (which should just not happen), or a full-fledged minigame within the game (which will not happen). That's not cherry-picking, there are no other options. Either it's a mindless skinner-box to get you to stay logged in, or it's a fully-fleshed out minigame that requires substantial dev investment. Neither of those are positives for the actual game, no matter how you dress it up. One is a small amount of dev time for something really pointless, the other is a large amount of dev time for another game that we're just hooking up to Hex.


People are defending it on the grounds that you've criticized it because the terms "boring" and "banal" are entirely subjective. Why shouldn't people have something mindless to do in game if they feel like it? Funsocks thinks it's boring is not sufficient reasoning. Also, let's have some perspective, shall we. The majority of the world might find a digital TCG boring and banal. Even those that don't would most likely find arguing minutia on message boards for a game that doesn't exist yet as the very definition of boring and banal, and yet here WE are. We find something enjoyable or entertaining about it.

You can speculate that fishing and/or the mini games are not positives, but again it's merely subjective. You certainly can't say that they are negatives. (I'm assuming that no one's house is burning down around them while their emaciated children rattle a tin cup against the dog cage they're locked inside, of course) No one has suggested this be a high priority nor has it been suggested that release dates be pushed back until they can be properly instituted. Mindless or not, boring or not, there is a market for it.

Ebynfel
08-07-2013, 12:58 PM
I'd rather see mercenary pet battles or something akin. Maybe a smaller deck battle or actual Pokemon type time sink. I think it will give collectors something to shoot for, and leveling the pets or what have you to max, could reward decent pve cards or something.

RobHaven
08-07-2013, 01:26 PM
Why will I be playing in at least two PvP tournaments a month?
Hexercises. You still owe me that second deck build, and we need to finish going over the first. Sticking with the basics for now.
It's off topic - we can talk about it later.


People are defending it on the grounds that you've criticized it because the terms "boring" and "banal" are entirely subjective. Why shouldn't people have something mindless to do in game if they feel like it? Funsocks thinks it's boring is not sufficient reasoning. Also, let's have some perspective, shall we. The majority of the world might find a digital TCG boring and banal. Even those that don't would most likely find arguing minutia on message boards for a game that doesn't exist yet as the very definition of boring and banal, and yet here WE are. We find something enjoyable or entertaining about it.

You can speculate that fishing and/or the mini games are not positives, but again it's merely subjective. You certainly can't say that they are negatives. (I'm assuming that no one's house is burning down around them while their emaciated children rattle a tin cup against the dog cage they're locked inside, of course) No one has suggested this be a high priority nor has it been suggested that release dates be pushed back until they can be properly instituted. Mindless or not, boring or not, there is a market for it.
Every line of this post reminded me of why I love you.

Kates
08-08-2013, 07:05 AM
Hexercises. You still owe me that second deck build

I tried. I can't do it. Don't know enough.


Every line of this post reminded me of why I love you.

<3 Love you, too. I hope all of that makes the rest of you thoroughly uncomfortable! :p

keldrin
08-09-2013, 01:41 AM
I guess you could do a hex trivia mini game.
It could at least educate you about the cards, game facts, rules, mercenaries, etc.
Could even be competing against other players.

The draw back is people looking up answers on the internet, so a relatively short timer for answering would be needed.

Chiany
08-09-2013, 01:46 AM
I tried. I can't do it. Don't know enough.



<3 Love you, too. I hope all of that makes the rest of you thoroughly uncomfortable! :p

Only pointless fishing games make me uncomfortable.

Kates
08-09-2013, 06:36 AM
Only pointless fishing games make me uncomfortable.

Bahahahahaha! Challenge accepted! ;)

ossuary
08-09-2013, 09:54 AM
<3 Love you, too. I hope all of that makes the rest of you thoroughly uncomfortable! :p

I think it's sweet. But if you take it much further, I'm going to have to send my kids outside or something. And nobody wants that. ;)

Vibraxus
08-09-2013, 10:40 AM
I think it's sweet. But if you take it much further, I'm going to have to send my kids outside or something. And nobody wants that. ;)

For all that is holy, think of the children! Dont make them venture outside!!!!!