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View Full Version : Is there a way to change Kickstarter tiers?



Jonesy
06-19-2013, 03:25 PM
I misunderstood the rewards and wish to choose a different available tier, is this possible? Who would I need to contact?

Armies
06-19-2013, 03:30 PM
Sorry that is not likely to happen, its been finalized already. but maybe you can find someone to trade with

jaxsonbateman
06-19-2013, 03:34 PM
If you wish to speak to CZE directly, hexmedia@cryptozoic.com - however, I wouldn't hold your breath. They might be accommodating if the tier you wanted was of equal or lesser value and still had slots available, but they're well within their right to say that there's nothing they can do about it.

Shadowelf
06-19-2013, 03:34 PM
Only cze can solve this issue, but i doubt they will/can , since it has been stated so many times that KS pledges at this stage are final

Brumby66
06-19-2013, 03:40 PM
Crypto is pretty accommodating. If it was an available tier of equal value then I think they may do it for you. There's no guarantee, but you can try. If you are trying to upgrade however, that won't happen.

Jonesy
06-19-2013, 03:44 PM
Thanks for the email address, that's what I was looking for. I simply want to change from raid leader to guild master now that I understand that "+1 Card in the opening hand of all players grouped with “The Raid Leader” in non-tournament PVE content FOR LIFE of the game!" doesnt apply to single player dungeons and only multiplayer ones.

ZeroCool
06-19-2013, 03:50 PM
Don't waste their time with an e-mail. The KS page was pretty straight forward with the rewards for each tier.

Aradon
06-19-2013, 04:13 PM
I'm sure they can spare a few minutes for someone who donated 250 dollars to their game.

ZeroCool
06-19-2013, 04:16 PM
I'm sure they can spare a few minutes for someone who donated 250 dollars to their game.

Not saying they couldn't spare the time, it's wasted time though. He's going to get an "I'm sorry but...." reply. If anything, I'm saving him time, and not allowing him to get his hopes up.

Qorsair
06-19-2013, 04:19 PM
Going from Raid Leader to Guild Master? Neither tier sold out, I'd be surprised if they don't accomodate him.

That said, no way in hell would I be switching from RL to GM! But, to each his own. :)

theeliminator
06-19-2013, 04:25 PM
One thing I wish this would open up, would be, if someone from the "all gone" tiers didn't pay and their spot became open for others to try and get in. Wouldn't mind going from King to Dungeon Crawler.

KnowingCrow
06-19-2013, 04:29 PM
I don't see why everyone is saying don't bother, I've seen plenty of other Kickstarters allowing people to change their pledge after the Kickstarter ends. Even if they've explicitly stated that they won't it doesn't mean they can't change their mind. Send them a email. I would like to hear an official announcement on this.

ZeroCool
06-19-2013, 04:32 PM
Going from Raid Leader to Guild Master? Neither tier sold out, I'd be surprised if they don't accomodate him.

That said, no way in hell would I be switching from RL to GM! But, to each his own. :)

Dev's said they aren't able to sell the tiers that we unclaimed, or the ones that people "pledged" for and didn't actually pay for. I doubt they'll accommodate.

jaxsonbateman
06-19-2013, 04:35 PM
One thing I wish this would open up, would be, if someone from the "all gone" tiers didn't pay and their spot became open for others to try and get in. Wouldn't mind going from King to Dungeon Crawler.
The issue with that kind of thing is that it then becomes a timesink trying to keep maintaining Kickstarter swaps and all that (and there'll be a lot of them depending on how many fell through, and latecomers and all that).

I'm pretty sure what they wanted to do was devote a fair amount of attention to the Kickstarter while it was running, to drum up interest and support, and then once it was over (ie. now), dedicate all their energy to releasing the various stages of the game in a timely matter.

Justinkp
06-20-2013, 03:15 AM
One thing I wish this would open up, would be, if someone from the "all gone" tiers didn't pay and their spot became open for others to try and get in. Wouldn't mind going from King to Dungeon Crawler.

How would they determine who gets the newly vacant slots? And it would be a lot of work-I'd like to go up to grand king but then if left my collector and king behind for it that's two more slots open maybe (tho collector didn't sell out and king was infinite so those may not matter but others could) and so on and so on. As much as I'd like grand king or just not to see sold out tier slots going to "waste" do to people pledging for what they couldn't afford or whatever I'd rather have them work on the game. Plus no matter how they did it it would lead to whining and we as a community would do well to downplay the kickstarter at this point, take our tiers out of our sings etc.

Justin

DjiN
06-20-2013, 03:17 AM
That said, no way in hell would I be switching from RL to GM! But, to each his own. :)

+1

nyxnyxnyx
06-20-2013, 05:10 AM
If they do it, they'd better keep it from the public eye. As an example, some dude might have picked up Raid Leader for $250 solely based on the fact that there were only 'x' amount of Raid Leader+ pledges (same can be said for Collector etc). Allowing switches now would negate all that.

negativeZer0
06-20-2013, 07:17 AM
Don't waste their time with an e-mail. The KS page was pretty straight forward with the rewards for each tier.

In this particular case it was NOT CLEAR AT ALL. By reading the reward one could logically conclude this would apply to all pve but was later clarified (very close to the end of the KS) that this was not the case. Given this situation I would hope CZE would accommodate this request because the switch is to an equal value non-sold out tier where there was a reasonable confusion as to the hand size bonus and how it worked exactly.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 07:21 AM
Wasn't is clarified that dungeon collector only ever would apply to dungeons but raid leader would apply to any non tournament multiplayer PVE? That's what I remember it being anyway. If multiplayer dungeons ever exist RL should apply by that description.

Shadowelf
06-20-2013, 07:28 AM
Wasn't is clarified that dungeon collector only ever would apply to dungeons but raid leader would apply to any non tournament multiplayer PVE? That's what I remember it being anyway. If multiplayer dungeons ever exist RL should apply by that description.

It's Dungeon Crawler; yeap it was, everything was clear and set, till Cory had an online 'slip of tongue' and the speculation begun anew

EDIT: i wouldn't swap GM for RL; RL will be highly sought after ,unlike the 90 more set 1 boosters

negativeZer0
06-20-2013, 07:33 AM
Wasn't is clarified that dungeon collector only ever would apply to dungeons but raid leader would apply to any non tournament multiplayer PVE? That's what I remember it being anyway. If multiplayer dungeons ever exist RL should apply by that description.

It was officially stated that Raid leader bonus ONLY applies to RAIDS and not any other pve. This was clarified very late in the KS which is why I think OP has a valid reason for wanting to switch (I still think raid leader is very good, but that's not the issue here). This was after the whole "till Cory had an online 'slip of tongue' and the speculation begun anew" took place

BenRGamer
06-20-2013, 07:35 AM
It's Dungeon Crawler; yeap it was, everything was clear and set, till Cory had an online 'slip of tongue' and the speculation begun anew

EDIT: i wouldn't swap GM for RL; RL will be highly sought after ,unlike the 90 more set 1 boosters

Eh, they'd be sought after in a guild, once the population goes up every guild will want a GM for the XP boost.

Shadowelf
06-20-2013, 07:41 AM
Eh, they'd be sought after in a guild, once the population goes up every guild will want a GM for the XP boost.

Yeah but u only need 1 GM to get the bonus (GM bonuses doesn't stack) and the guy, if i'm not mistaken, doesn't have to be the GM at all. RL bonuses on the other hand do stack (+1 card), and all top rated guilds would need 3 raid to raid, not to mention everybody else who would look for at least one for the card and the +1 bonus.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 07:42 AM
It was officially stated that Raid leader bonus ONLY applies to RAIDS and not any other pve. This was clarified very late in the KS which is why I think OP has a valid reason for wanting to switch (I still think raid leader is very good, but that's not the issue here). This was after the whole "till Cory had an online 'slip of tongue' and the speculation begun anew" took place

I don't think this is correct, do you have a link or anything? It was definitely clarified that dungeon collector only applied to dungeons, but the DC text always stated dungeons only. Raid leader has always stated all multiplayer non tournament PVE. And I don't remember them contradicting that description.

Shadowelf
06-20-2013, 07:57 AM
Direct quote from update #29 On a livestream interview yesterday, riding a sugar high from birthday cake and Coca Cola, Cory misspoke about the Dungeon Crawler allowing for an additional loot roll on Raid Bosses. Dungeon Crawler only works in dungeons. When asked for comment, Cory Jones was quoted as saying, "Sorry, I blew it."

Then at the updates' comments Creator Cryptozoic Entertainment on June 6
Frederic: The Raid Leader bonuses only apply to Raids.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 08:00 AM
Hmm, I missed the comments on that update. I hope that's a mistake because that is not at all what the tier describes.

Diesbudt
06-20-2013, 08:04 AM
Hmm, I missed the comments on that update. I hope that's a mistake because that is not at all what the tier describes.

In the last stream they confirmed that Dungeon crawler ONLY affects single non raid dungeons, and Raid leader's effect ONLY affects group PvE raid content.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 08:11 AM
Which stream? I definitely watched all of those. It may be a case of me ignoring things that I deem infathomable.

The raid leader tier is pretty clear.
+1 Card in the opening hand of all players grouped with “The Raid Leader” in non-tournament PVE content FOR LIFE of the game!

I am not exclusively a raid leader so this doesn't effect me, but changing that to only be raids after the fact seems pretty clearly against kickstarters rules. I'd imagine if you wanted to back out of your pledge you would have a leg to stand on. They don't permit changing tier rewards after someone has bid on them.

+100% extra loot drop (gold, items, etc.) from dungeon bosses FOR LIFE of the game! Was also pretty clear. They didn't change that though. Just reaffirmed. There will be no multiplayer dungeons at launch. Perhaps that's where the confusion is?

Diesbudt
06-20-2013, 08:14 AM
Which stream? I definitely watched all of those. It may be a case of me ignoring things that I deem infathomable.

The raid leader tier is pretty clear.
+1 Card in the opening hand of all players grouped with “The Raid Leader” in non-tournament PVE content FOR LIFE of the game!

I am not exclusively a raid leader so this doesn't effect me, but changing that to only be raids after the fact seems pretty clearly against kickstarters rules. I'd imagine if you wanted to back out of your pledge you would have a leg to stand on. They don't permit changing tier rewards after someone has bid on them.

It was not a change. It was a clarification. Plus the word "grouped WITH the raid leader." in the description. So if you want to get technical, that means ONLY PEOPLE GROUPED with raid leader would get a +1 card. Not the raid leader himself. So it has to be in a group for it to work.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 08:17 AM
Yes. I agree he has to be in a group for it to work. That's not in question. Single player dungeons are out. When they add any non tournament multiplayer PVE that isn't a raid it should apply though. Meaning multiplayer dungeons, quests, whatever.

Diesbudt
06-20-2013, 08:19 AM
Yes. I agree he has to be in a group for it to work. That's not in question. Single player dungeons are out. When they add any non tournament multiplayer PVE that isn't a raid it should apply though. Meaning multiplayer dungeons, quests, whatever.

The only multiplayer PvE is raids.... I don't understand what you are getting at now.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 08:21 AM
They have said that there will be multiplayer dungeons. Just not yet. They're working on ways to make multiplayer games more smooth. The tier is worded in such a way that it should apply to those modes. It doesn't say raids in the description unlike DC

Qorsair
06-20-2013, 08:31 AM
When Cory said Raid Leader only works on raids, it was clarification of "DC for dungeons, RL for raids." At this point, the only non-tournament multiplayer PVE is in raids. It was not going back against the Kickstarter descriptions. Raid Leader is still "all non-tournament multiplayer PVE" there has been no clarification to the contrary.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 08:35 AM
So what are you suggesting happens when there is a dungeon that is multiplayer, and not a tournament?

Shadowelf
06-20-2013, 08:44 AM
So what are you suggesting happens when there is a dungeon that is multiplayer, and not a tournament?

DCs get double loot, everybody else is screwed :P

ossuary
06-20-2013, 08:45 AM
So what are you suggesting happens when there is a dungeon that is multiplayer, and not a tournament?

There's no such thing.

Dungeons are single player. You vs. the dungeon. A dungeon that allows more than one person IS a raid. That is the definition of Raid in this game.

All content in which players can group together in PVE, is a raid. End of story.

They did not lie. They did not change the rules. They CLARIFIED.

HTH. HAND.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 08:46 AM
DCs get double loot, everybody else is screwed :P
That's exactly what the raid leader description doesnt say would happen.
Hmm. The way this news was delivered was pretty underhanded, too. In a comment on an article. I'll have to think on that for a while.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 08:49 AM
There's no such thing.

Dungeons are single player. You vs. the dungeon. A dungeon that allows more than one person IS a raid. That is the definition of Raid in this game.

All content in which players can group together in PVE, is a raid. End of story.

They did not lie. They did not change the rules. They CLARIFIED.

HTH. HAND.

Thats blatantly false. They've said many times that multiplayer dungeons are a thing they're working on. A raid is a single encounter with multiple stages against a very difficult boss. A multiplayer dungeon could be very different than that. The issue is that traditionally speaking multiplayer tcg with priority takes a very long time but they will experiment with ways to speed it up.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 08:52 AM
Personally I thought it was pretty clear early on that the Dungeon tier was for only single-player activities, and the Raid Leader tier was only for raid-related activities. Notwithstanding Cory's gaff on one of the streams, that was definitely clarified during the Kickstarter.

It also explains why Grand King became so popular - apart from the obvious value, it was a way to easily get the benefits in both dungeons and raids.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 08:57 AM
Also, if RL was supposed to get the benefit in regular dungeons, the DC tier was almost completely pointless. Why bother with the DC tier if you could get the the vast majority of the benefit and more for the same price by choosing RL?

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 08:57 AM
It honestly clearly seemed to me that DC was for single player, and RL was for multiplayer. The wording of RL specifically keeps it open for all multiplayer encounters that aren't part of a tournament or PVP

Once again. Not talking about single player dungeons. Just future talked about multiplayer ones.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 09:02 AM
It honestly clearly seemed to me that DC was for single player, and RL was for multiplayer. The wording of RL specifically keeps it open for all multiplayer encounters that aren't part of a tournament or PVP

Non-PVP "multiplayer encounters" is just a synonym for "raid" in Hex. There's no good reason for them to further differentiate playable PVE content. If it's designed for 1 person, it's a dungeon. If it's designed for multiple people, it's a raid, irrespective of whether or not the actual content is a series of "bosses" versus other encounters (whatever that may be) that are designed for multiple people.

To argue otherwise is just semantics.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 09:08 AM
I am currently at a hospital on wifi on my cellphone, but I can link to two separate instances of Cory talking about future multiplayer dungeons when I get home. Raids are unlocked after dungeons and meant for people to face very very difficult fights together. I honestly don't know what will differentiate a multiplayer dungeon from a raid other than difficulty? Perhaps it could be real time play, perhaps it could be people working together in separate fights during a common goal. I've no idea. Only that it has been specifically mentioned multiple times.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 09:21 AM
I am currently at a hospital on wifi on my cellphone, but I can link to two separate instances of Cory talking about future multiplayer dungeons when I get home. Raids are unlocked after dungeons and meant for people to face very very difficult fights together. I honestly don't know what will differentiate a multiplayer dungeon from a raid other than difficulty? Perhaps it could be real time play, perhaps it could be people working together in separate fights during a common goal. I've no idea. Only that it has been specifically mentioned multiple times.

I bet they will be treated as raids and thus the RL bonuses would be applicable because the RL tier was designed to make cooperative content easier, irrespective of it's difficulty level. Even if 2 or 3 players were doing different things in the same multi-player instance, presumably it would be because they were all working towards some end-state goal - that's the basic definition of a raid. You've seen this in very limited ways in WOW raids - Thorim in Ulduar, the start of Thaddius, etc. The MMOTCG format allows that sort of async activity in much different and more significant ways.

The DC tier will only provide its bonuses in single-player dungeons.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 09:22 AM
I am currently at a hospital on wifi on my cellphone...

Also, hope everything is ok! Good hospital visit (new child) FTW?

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 09:28 AM
My cousin is having a liver biopsy, nothing major I'm just the transportation.

Shadowelf
06-20-2013, 09:46 AM
My cousin is having a liver biopsy, nothing major I'm just the transportation.

Hope everything will be ok.

As for the DC, there is another clarification to be made; u don't really get double the loot, just a second roll on the given loot; again confirmed by Cory in one of his streams and again KS fails to provide an accurate description

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 10:04 AM
As for the DC, there is another clarification to be made; u don't really get double the loot, just a second roll on the given loot; again confirmed by Cory in one of his streams and again KS fails to provide an accurate description

That was always my understanding. It would have been much less valuable if "double" had equated to "2x", especially when you consider equipment drops that you only ever really need 1 of. Getting 2 different loot rolls is definitely preferable IMHO.

RobHaven
06-20-2013, 10:23 AM
Am I the only one who sees this kind of stuff as nitpicking? It seems to me like people are trying to catch CZE on a technicality. As someone else already pointed out: Live by the sword, die by the sword. There is no mention of the Raid Leader getting the bonus, only those grouped with the RL. Now we can reasonably assume that this means "all members of the group the RL is in" - which would include them. Can't we apply the same level of reason to the fact that it should be mulitplayer only?

Arguing about it is a fruitless endeavor; I'm sure CZE already has a firm policy in place and will handle the matter accordingly [without first consulting our thread(s)]. The only reason I jumped in is because it kind of bothers me when I see people trying to eek out a little more blood from the stone based on technicalities. Let's all just accept that it is what it is.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 10:41 AM
It's not nitpicking when someone reads a clear description and shells out 250 bucks and then doesn't get what was described. No.

In fact if they meant for it to be raids only, just like the DC is dungeons only, why wouldn't they have simply said non tournament raids, rather than the wording they used? It Is an intentional omission of the word raid. It's clear when they wrote it they had other things in mind. For them to narrow that in a comment of a clarification adhering to the wording of a different tier is pretty low. I hope that it doesn't play out like that.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 10:52 AM
It's not nitpicking when someone reads a clear description and shells out 250 bucks and then doesn't get what was described. No.

The only way someone would potentially not get "what was described" would be if Cryptozoic decides to segment PVE content in 3 ways (single-player dungeons, multiplayer dungeons, and raids) AND then doesn't give RL bonuses to "multiplayer dungeons".

However, they also clarified, in writing, and before the end of the KS (so that people had the opportunity to change their pledges), that the RL benefits only apply to "raids".

Either way, Cryptozoic has done what they could have been expected to to make their position clear.

And, as I stated previously, I'd be surprised it they ended up truly differentiating/segmenting "multiplayer dungeons" from "raids" with respect to RL benefits.

ZeroCool
06-20-2013, 10:55 AM
Oh, we're still talking about this?

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 10:59 AM
Oh, we're still talking about this?

We are!

P.S. How are Acid Burn, Cereal Killer and the Fantom Phreak doing these days? ;)

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 11:00 AM
Or there can be dungeons where you have an npc with you that can be changed out for a friend instead? There's no need for it to be fragmented. Multiplayer dungeons could be done solo or with friends. And as I said. Narrowing the scope of the raid leader tier even in writing is generally against kick starter rules. You cannot take away only add to them. Finally, even if you were going to go ahead and narrow the scope of a tier in writing. Doing it in one line in a comment is not the way to do it. They had it in an update that DC will be functioning as written. Then in a comment, btw RL won't. If we should release multiplayer PVE and call it anything other than a raid, you're screwed.

Ultimately, I think that's what it comes down to for me. Dungeons are wide open, they have said they're going to be messing with the number of enemies, and allies, and doing all sorts of crazy things. Something like 40 dungeons at launch. Raids on the other hand seem much more limited, there are way fewer of them. There are tons of unexplored realms of possibility for multiplayer pve that wouldn't fit the description of what a "raid" is. From the description of the tier it seemed that these things would apply. Any "multiplayer pve non tournament pve for life" is very clear to me. Just as DC's description of 100% increased loot from dungeon bosses is clear.

RobHaven
06-20-2013, 11:08 AM
Personally I don't really care. If they call the multiplayer dungeons "dungeons" or "raids" won't matter to me. I don't care if the bonuses are given to either, both, or neither. With or without the bonus I'm going to farm the content so much that I'll be reported as a bot.

That being said, the original issue was whether or not the bonus applied to single player content.

I simply want to change from raid leader to guild master now that I understand that "+1 Card in the opening hand of all players grouped with “The Raid Leader” in non-tournament PVE content FOR LIFE of the game!" doesnt apply to single player dungeons and only multiplayer ones.
Whether or not we want to argue about the nomenclature used for multiplayer PvE content doesn't change the legitimacy of a claim that the reward description is misleading [with regards to single player content]. Personally, I don't really see the reward tier being read that way...but I'm also borderline illiterate, so who knows.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 11:11 AM
Or there can be dungeons where you have an npc with you that can be changed out for a friend instead? There's no need for it to be fragmented. Multiplayer dungeons could be done solo or with friends. And as I said. Narrowing the scope of the raid leader tier even in writing is generally against kick starter rules. You cannot take away only add to them. Finally, even if you were going to go ahead and narrow the scope of a tier on writing. Doing it in one line in a comment is not the way to do it. They had it in an update that DC will be functioning as written. Then in a comment, btw RL won't. If we should release multiplayer PVE and call it anything other than a raid, you're screwed.

That's a very harsh interpretation of both the rules and Cryptozoic's actions. If it came to any sort of legal action I doubt that it would be seen as a narrowing of scope.

I think we have a completely different mindset about Kickstarters though. I pledge money to see projects I believe in come to fruition. The rewards are cool, but I don't really ever expect that I have a 100% certainty of getting everything I was promised (luckily I haven't been disappointed yet, on KS anyway). I don't see the pledge descriptions as legally binding contracts between me and the project creator. I'm willing to take it in good faith that they'll deliver what their interpretation of what they expected/planned to deliver, not what I or anyone else expected them to.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 11:17 AM
Whether or not we want to argue about the nomenclature used for multiplayer PvE content doesn't change the legitimacy of a claim that the reward description is misleading [with regards to single player content]. Personally, I don't really see the reward tier being read that way...but I'm also borderline illiterate, so who knows.

It's single-player content - you're not grouped (for the purposes of the content anyway, ignoring the potential to be in a group) with anyone while you're doing it. Why would you ever expect the bonus in that circumstance?

That's a particularly self-serving interpretation of the language in the KS RL pledge level.

Also, Cryptozoic can easily make their RL pledge statement completely valid by only allowing you to enter single-player content if you're not grouped, thereby easily conforming with the language of the pledge.

RobHaven
06-20-2013, 11:17 AM
You believe in them about $9,250 more than I do.

I kid! I kid! I have full faith in this company.
Generally speaking, I'm with you on the stance. I don't want to hold this company to the fire over some wording when everything else they've done has been so generous.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 11:23 AM
You believe in them about $9,250 more than I do.

I kid! I kid! I have full faith in this company.
Generally speaking, I'm with you on the stance. I don't want to hold this company to the fire over some wording when everything else they've done has been so generous.

We'd all be much happier with this attitude/outlook :)

Personally, I'm upset that no one commented on the Hackers joke. Clearly, you're all too young to get the reference! ;)

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 11:25 AM
I don't have a raid leader tier at all. The lowest applicable tier i have is GK, which would provide me both benefits. I will not be upset whichever way they go, but I will definitely be able to understand people being upset should RL bonus not apply to any instance of Non-Tournament Multiplayer PVE. Since that is specifically what the tier says.

You're absolutely right about it being risky to donate to any KS, Hex may never launch. Any project could fail and you get nothing. You likely do not have any legal standing, but you certainly have a good argument for a refund if the game is successful, and the digital reward you were offered is not what you got. Should you feel the need to pursue one. *shrug* I'm not sure what the situation would be like if a company succeeded from KS money, and then just didn't pay out their tiers? Are they legally binding purchases in the event of a successful launch? Or is it the goodness of their heart that they provide them. If a company fails, and ends up not existing the question is moot, I've not heard of any instances of people just not getting their stuff even though the project launches successfully.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 11:26 AM
We'd all be much happier with this attitude/outlook :)

Personally, I'm upset that no one commented on the Hackers joke. Clearly, you're all too young to get the reference! ;)

On BBS's in 1988 up to that awful movie my handle was always Razor. After that stupid movie came out everyone in their brother was taking my nick, so I didn't comment on it intentionally.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 11:31 AM
There's a huge gap between "successful project that didn't give people the stuff that they were promised" and "successful project that delivered the rewards that were intended and promised and that (in this case) were clarified before the close of the Kickstarter".

We can debate all day whether or not their clarification was obvious enough, but they did make it. And their stance is a reasonable interpretation of what the wrote in the original pledge level. Is it somewhat flawed? Yes. But we're not all perfect all of the time. And I expect that not having the extra card in "multiplayer dungeons" (if they end up being different from raids) won't really be too much of a detriment to enjoying the game.

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 11:37 AM
There's a huge gap between "successful project that didn't give people the stuff that they were promised" and "successful project that delivered the rewards that were intended and promised and that (in this case) were clarified before the close of the Kickstarter".

We can debate all day whether or not their clarification was obvious enough, but they did make it. And their stance is a reasonable interpretation of what the wrote in the original pledge level. Is it somewhat flawed? Yes. But we're not all perfect all of the time. And I expect that not having the extra card in "multiplayer dungeons" (if they end up being different from raids) won't really be too much of a detriment to enjoying the game.

My question was about legal standing of pledges in general. Not equating this to not delivering goods at all.

I would say that we will just have to disagree about it being a reasonable interpretation, when they're talking about multiple types of multiplayer pve on one hand. and promising a reward with all of them in their description, and then with the other limiting it in a non visible place to just raids.

BossHoss
06-20-2013, 11:38 AM
we'd all be much happier with this attitude/outlook :)

personally, i'm upset that no one commented on the hackers joke. Clearly, you're all too young to get the reference! ;)
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ossuary
06-20-2013, 11:47 AM
Personally, I'm upset that no one commented on the Hackers joke. Clearly, you're all too young to get the reference! ;)

I didn't comment originally because it was so many posts up by the time I saw it. But I got it. ;)

Personally, I'm miffed the "Is this VIP abuse" thread finally died just AFTER I made my McDonald's coupon joke. I thought it was quite apt. :p

Gwaer
06-20-2013, 11:51 AM
I didn't comment originally because it was so many posts up by the time I saw it. But I got it. ;)

Personally, I'm miffed the "Is this VIP abuse" thread finally died just AFTER I made my McDonald's coupon joke. I thought it was quite apt. :p
Could always bump it. Someone else probably will anyway =/

Turtlewing
06-20-2013, 01:14 PM
It's single-player content - you're not grouped (for the purposes of the content anyway, ignoring the potential to be in a group) with anyone while you're doing it. Why would you ever expect the bonus in that circumstance?


A group of one is still a group.

hex_colin
06-20-2013, 01:18 PM
A group of one is still a group.

No, it's not. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/group

1: two or more figures forming a complete unit in a composition

2a : a number of individuals assembled together or having some unifying relationship
b : an assemblage of objects regarded as a unit
c (1) : a military unit consisting of a headquarters and attached battalions (2) : a unit of the United States Air Force higher than a squadron and lower than a wing

3a : an assemblage of related organisms —often used to avoid taxonomic connotations when the kind or degree of relationship is not clearly defined
b (1) : two or more atoms joined together or sometimes a single atom forming part of a molecule; especially : functional group <a methyl group> (2) : an assemblage of elements forming one of the vertical columns of the periodic table
c : a stratigraphic division comprising rocks deposited during an era

4: a mathematical set that is closed under a binary associative operation, contains an identity element, and has an inverse for every element

Turtlewing
06-20-2013, 03:00 PM
2a : a number of individuals assembled together or having some unifying relationship


let number of individuals be 1

by this definition i have a group containing one individual.

Marsden
06-20-2013, 03:02 PM
let number of individuals be 1

by this definition i have a group containing one individual.

You do know what the 's' at the end of individuals means, right?

Turtlewing
06-20-2013, 03:16 PM
You do know what the 's' at the end of individuals means, right?

In this context it means that it can refer to a variety of quantities. An example of similar usage is: "put any empty boxes over there." There may be no empty boxes, or only one empty box, but the speaker doesn't care how many there are so uses the plural.

Marsden
06-20-2013, 03:21 PM
Yeah, whatever. There is literally no way you can read "2a : a number of individuals assembled together or having some unifying relationship" as a single person unless you're trolling.

'number of' = implies plural
'individualS' = implies plural
'assembled together' = impossible with only one person
'unifying relationship' = impossible with only one person.

Turtlewing
06-20-2013, 03:42 PM
Yeah, whatever. There is literally no way you can read "2a : a number of individuals assembled together or having some unifying relationship" as a single person unless you're trolling.

'number of' = implies plural
'individualS' = implies plural
'assembled together' = impossible with only one person
'unifying relationship' = impossible with only one person.


one is a number.

Plural is used because the singular is incorrect for quantities that may not be singular. it does not exclude the possibility of a singular entity. "this allows one or more keys to open the same door", "we can tolerate between 1 and 5 system failures", "do we have 2 or 1 engines on this model?"

"assembled together or having a unifying relationship" can be satisfied by a spacial relationship to an external frame of reference such as being in a specified location (does not require the location be shared).

The definition implied that a group consists of more than one individual because most do, but does not exclude groups composed of one individual.

Anyway back to the context of Hex, if you don't count as a group when by yourself than you don't get the raid leader bonus when soloing raids (seems odd). If you get the bonus while soloing raids, than the description is incorrect if you don't also get the bonus in single player dungeons (should have specified multi-player content).

Marsden
06-20-2013, 03:45 PM
you're trolling.

as above

Genocidal
06-20-2013, 03:45 PM
Telling that you have to nitpick at the secondary definition to try and make your argument, when the primary definition clearly states two or more. If the second definition was meant to include a single person, it would say "an individual or number of individuals".

Jonesy
10-20-2013, 06:38 PM
Wow how did this thread go on 8 pages? As someone who has played lots of muds/mmos I consider being solo to be a group of one and to get all group affecting effects that I generate on myself when I'm alone. Furthermore I focused on the all non-tournament pve content part.

Anyways, just thought I'd say that they switched my tiers rather quickly with no problem.

keldrin
10-20-2013, 07:09 PM
If they do it, they'd better keep it from the public eye. As an example, some dude might have picked up Raid Leader for $250 solely based on the fact that there were only 'x' amount of Raid Leader+ pledges (same can be said for Collector etc). Allowing switches now would negate all that.

Well, I did pick up Raid leader based partly on the low number sold. It scared me, when I thought that it might be really difficult to get in a raid leader group with any kind of regularity.
That said, I really don't care if there are more out there. My gut feeling is, even if the entire tier sold out, they will still be in high demand. And it still will be difficult to get in raid leader groups on a regular bases.

mudkip
10-20-2013, 07:27 PM
Wow how did this thread go on 8 pages? As someone who has played lots of muds/mmos I consider being solo to be a group of one and to get all group affecting effects that I generate on myself when I'm alone. Furthermore I focused on the all non-tournament pve content part.

Anyways, just thought I'd say that they switched my tiers rather quickly with no problem.
I dont think it was worth bumping this thread to say that, you could have just edited your first post.

Kami
10-20-2013, 08:41 PM
Please don't necro very old threads. ^^;