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Shaqattaq
06-21-2013, 03:24 PM
Here’s a preview of Set 1 PVP Champions for you Underworld fans!

http://hextcg.com/pvp-champions-underworld/

PetyrBaelish
06-21-2013, 03:42 PM
Yes! Loving Nin the Shadow cant wait to make a deck around him!

nicosharp
06-21-2013, 03:47 PM
Necrotic charge powers seem a lot better than the others for both the effect and the charge costs..

Dwarf charge powers seem really weak for their charge costs. 6 charges for 1 card? Steep.

Malicus
06-21-2013, 03:53 PM
Bertram and Monika will be strong in their respective artifact and shin'hare decks. I was wondering myself about the steep cost of the card draw but I also keep hearing how powerful card advantage is and that could be the necessary draw although I guess its not gonna be useful to pull that extra resource you need :P.

kelderan
06-21-2013, 03:55 PM
Card advantage can be a beast. I suspect that card started as a 3 charge until internal playtesting. It seems steep, even to me, but I doubt they did it that way without one hell of a lot of consideration.

JoB3nder
06-21-2013, 04:04 PM
I'm actually a little underwhelmed by these charge abilities. Most just don't do much for abilities that will be used once or twice per game.

Vorsa
06-21-2013, 04:28 PM
They are largely quite modest, but I think that's probably best for PvP; wouldn't really want them so strong they define decks, because inevitably only a small minority would be come out ahead and thus defeat the point of offering choices at all.

I pick Bun'jitsu as the stand-out; there's bound to be plenty of troops with stats ahead of the curve but undesirable drawbacks - particularly in blood & wild - that would be great to combine into a single uber-troop with (presumably) no special rules.

E.g. Petulant Wildebeast becomes a cost 1 permanent +3/+3 to another troop, Fang of the Mountain God turning from life sapper into a buff after outliving initial usefulness.

At the very least it's a buffer against unfortunate source/creature draws, since 2 lesser creatures can turn into something pretty intimidating if you cannot afford/draw any heavy hitters.

itsmechrisa
06-21-2013, 04:45 PM
Does anyone else think the Vennen Rogue SUCKS? -1/-0 for 3 charges? Yikes. It might be good against a card that has 1 attack and an ability that activates when it does damage to a champion or something, but really it does suck.

Hmdrake
06-21-2013, 04:55 PM
Yeah, that rogue was super underwhelming.

Kietay
06-21-2013, 04:55 PM
I dont want threshold on champions :c

HyenaNipples
06-21-2013, 04:58 PM
Bun'Jitsu is pretty self-defeating- unless Abominations come with SpellSheild-

All you are doing is condensing your troop force so your opponent will get more traction with their removal cards. Just hold a Murder, Repel, or similar card in your hand until the Charge ability goes off, then use it to eliminate two units for the price of one. Thanks bro!

Armies
06-21-2013, 05:04 PM
Bun'Jitsu is pretty self-defeating- unless Abominations come with SpellSheild-

All you are doing is condensing your troop force so your opponent will get more traction with their removal cards. Just hold a Murder, Repel, or similar card in your hand until the Charge ability goes off, then use it to eliminate two units for the price of one. Thanks bro!
Blood Diamond Deck Bro, Soulmarble into soularmaments now you have +2/2 on both troops transforming and +2/2 on the abom for a total of +6 to whatever the base of the troops were and spellshield and steadfast

BlindMan
06-21-2013, 05:05 PM
Couldn't you use temporary effects to pump one of your guys and then combine them? It seems like the increase would then become permanent. Or like Vorsa said, you could use a creature that would normally be temporary.

Corpselocker
06-21-2013, 05:07 PM
Hrmm, it says at action speed, but has keyword basic...

Lafoote
06-21-2013, 05:07 PM
Bun'Jitsu is pretty self-defeating- unless Abominations come with SpellSheild-

All you are doing is condensing your troop force so your opponent will get more traction with their removal cards. Just hold a Murder, Repel, or similar card in your hand until the Charge ability goes off, then use it to eliminate two units for the price of one. Thanks bro!

Seems that way on the surface, but there could be effects that work with this. It also depends on what happens when the abomination dies. Does it go to the graveyard as a no cost troop? Does it revert back? I trust they're not just slinging a bunch of half ass champions.

Armies
06-21-2013, 05:08 PM
Couldn't you use temporary effects to pump one of your guys and then combine them? It seems like the increase would then become permanent. Or like Vorsa said, you could use a creature that would normally be temporary.
how many creatures have been spoiled that are temporary? 1? the 3/3 speed rabbit thing that goes back into the deck as a 6/6?

Armies
06-21-2013, 05:09 PM
Hrmm, it says at action speed, but has keyword basic...

aka basic action is still action speed, :P if it said quick action then it would be a quick action.

Reddaye
06-21-2013, 05:21 PM
I hope they reconsider the threshold costs for abilities. It kind of locks champions into certain types of decks, ie: why is the necrotic Warlock required to have Diamond threshold to perform his ability? The necrotic Warrior uses Blood. They seem kind of reversed to me.

Lafoote
06-21-2013, 05:28 PM
Do the champions come in packs, or is each available for all players? No real use for extras, so it will be disappointing to pull them again and again if its the latter.

Keated
06-21-2013, 05:35 PM
Hmm, they seem reasonable to me - the effects may be marginal, but they're way, way less dependent on draws. If many spoiler seasons for Magic have taught me anything, it's to not underestimate cards before you've at least gotten a chance to play them. If card advantage is anywhere near as important as it is in Magic, the cards which either make a dude, kill a dude, or straight up draw you a card will be pretty powerful. I imagine these have been tested extensively and were likely broken at lower costs.

Besides, if the general consensus is that they're all fairly marginal, at least that means they're in balance, especially as basically just an extra add on for your deck :)

Daer
06-21-2013, 05:51 PM
Do the champions come in packs, or is each available for all players? No real use for extras, so it will be disappointing to pull them again and again if its the latter.

They are available to everyone, they don't come in packs.

Gregzilla
06-21-2013, 05:59 PM
E.g. Petulant Wildebeast becomes a cost 1 permanent +3/+3 to another troop, Fang of the Mountain God turning from life sapper into a buff after outliving initial usefulness.

I find zero things wrong with Petulant Wildebeast. Love that card. Sure, it gets shuffled back into your deck first time it's played, but then it becomes a 6/6 Haste for 1. Noooooothing wrong with that at all. :) Especially if ya add the equipment that boosts all of em in your deck.

Armies
06-21-2013, 06:00 PM
I find zero things wrong with Petulant Wildebeast. Love that card. Sure, it gets shuffled back into your deck first time it's played, but then it becomes a 6/6 Haste for 1. Noooooothing wrong with that at all. :) Especially if ya add the equipment that boosts all of em in your deck.
talking about balance from a pvp perspective as there is minimal balance in pve

Doxy
06-21-2013, 06:36 PM
Dwarven Ranger ability is not bad imho. + 1 card is always good.

negativeZer0
06-21-2013, 06:55 PM
Do NOT like the threshold part AT ALL
This takes way too much control away from the deck builder.

Gregzilla
06-21-2013, 06:59 PM
talking about balance from a pvp perspective as there is minimal balance in pve

Well, still... a 3/3 haste for 1 that gets shuffled into your deck and turns into a 6/6 haste for 1? Yeah. That's damn good, I think.

greytemplar
06-21-2013, 07:09 PM
Do NOT like the threshold part AT ALL
This takes way too much control away from the deck builder.

I agree with this. I would prefer they did not have a threshold.

I like most of the champions with the exception of the shin'hare cleric and vennen rogue.
Rogue feels underwhelming for the cost. the cleric feels like it should be a permenant +1/+1 as I'd rather have a temp bonus as a combat trick. Feels a little telegraphic.

wayne
06-21-2013, 07:24 PM
Card advantage can be a beast. I suspect that card started as a 3 charge until internal playtesting. It seems steep, even to me, but I doubt they did it that way without one hell of a lot of consideration.

Yeah, with all the ways dwarf/artifact has to charge up your champion, 3 is probably too cheap.

theeliminator
06-21-2013, 07:41 PM
Why is there only one Vennen?

Deacon_Blues
06-21-2013, 07:46 PM
The flavor of some of these seems way off. Why is a dwarf ranger drawing me cards exactly? Or a Shin'hare ranger birthing bunnies? A few of these cards have clashing flavor and mechanics IMO.

Erebus
06-21-2013, 08:04 PM
Dwarf ranger makes sense, as he's finding a cache of artifacts in his search.

Shin'hare Ranger just brings Battle Hoppers as fodder so he can take pot-shots from behind a meat wall?

jgsugden
06-21-2013, 08:14 PM
Necrotic Rogue: For a limited event with 40 cards, being able to make your opponent deplete his deck by 1 card per resource you've drawn is nasty. If you assume 17 resources in each deck, you're going to see an opponent run out of cards around turn 21 on average (about 11 turns earlier than normal). At that point they'll have seen an average of 16 non-resource cards if there is nothing else going back into their deck or getting drawn. If you add in a few cards that can deplete decks in other ways, or give you additionl charges...

Necrotic Warrior: That life shift is going to be significant in a fast deck - and Hex looks like a much faster game than MtG.

I think we need to remember that there are multiple ways to get charges. When you play one of these champions in constructed, you might be able to get charges much faster than one per resource. As such, they need to make sure that the game doesn't fall apart because of the champion power.

Virus
06-21-2013, 08:36 PM
Are these the only champions? Since ruby and diamond only have one, it seems like there should be more,

Corpselocker
06-21-2013, 08:41 PM
These are just the Underworld champions.

Does charge bot charge 1 charge or the whole champion? Now that is the question :)

ZacPhoenix
06-21-2013, 09:05 PM
I hope it charges the whole champion. Really good if it does that.

Kietay
06-21-2013, 09:59 PM
I agree with this. I would prefer they did not have a threshold.

I like most of the champions with the exception of the shin'hare cleric and vennen rogue.
Rogue feels underwhelming for the cost. the cleric feels like it should be a permenant +1/+1 as I'd rather have a temp bonus as a combat trick. Feels a little telegraphic.

Please take out all threshholds.

Erebus
06-21-2013, 10:21 PM
Charge bot is one charge. As per the Twitch video. It'd be ridiculous if it was an entire charges needed for activating a power.

FranzVonG
06-21-2013, 10:40 PM
Not sure about the threshold too, I suppose it's there for an easier balancing of the game...
Really like the art btw

BadWolf
06-21-2013, 11:35 PM
It does seem that having a threshold cost on the champion would be a big limiter for the decks you can construct for a champion. I would say maybe during Alpha we could test to see if that is necessary.

Milamber
06-22-2013, 12:37 AM
Cool update,
Some interesting flavour..like someone said earlier its good for PvP that these are game shakingly astounding otherwise with min maxing there'd only ever be very few viable choices...
As they are they seem to have a flavour to what you build your deck around.
Good to see there isn't such a gap that you would straight off the bat never contemplated trying any of them.

Yeah though re the cost value of card draw for dwarves, I did raise an eyebrow at that.
I'm guessing that its because dwarves must have very little access to card advantage and as someone previously posted they must have found that during playtesting that it was to powerful if you built around it.

Interesting though for sure will have to go back and take a deeper look.
But like I eluded to before I like the fact that the nature of the power levels is wide enough that I don't see myself ever trying a large selection of them off the bat

VoidInsanity
06-22-2013, 02:50 AM
DWARF RANGER
Drawing a card for 6 resource is steep if the card drawn is random. If it is draw a card of your choice or draw card type X then it seems worth it but a single random card draw? Seems really weak.

DWARF MAGE
Has the potential to instantly kill anything provided you have the right artifact. Seems good.

DWARF WARRIOR // SHIN’HARE RANGER
Not much to say here. Free unit for 3 resource is good and much better than a card for 6 that you still have to pay to use.

NECROTIC ROGUE
Potentially very good if you combine it with something that sends cards back to the top of someones deck. Seems cheap for what it potentially allows but I'll reserve judgement until I actually get to play around with the game.

NECROTIC WARLOCK
Seems to be one of the strongest out of all of them. For its cost the life you could potentially get back from the use of this ability can easily turn the tide of a game.

NECROTIC WARRIOR
I don't see why you'd want to use this over the warlock if you had the choice. Depends on how this ability synergies with other cards, has the potential to be really strong if you have a deck with cards that benefit from champion life gain and enemy life loss.

SHIN’HARE CLERIC
Many uses, seems really strong and the cost is fair.

SHIN’HARE WARLOCK
Potential game ender but seems highly situational. Would need to see it in action.

VENNEN ROGUE
Seems weak but won't know until I actually get to try it out.

ScholarZero
06-22-2013, 06:21 AM
It seems from watching demos that charging is going to be front-loaded, meaning that you'll get 4-5 charges pretty quickly in the match, but for the most part only keep getting charges if you keep playing resources. The videos I've seen, people pretty much pop off their charge ability as soon as they get it, but some of these "weaker" charge abilities will probably require a bit more finesse.

Like the Rogue. He seems underwhelming - why would I want to -1/-0 someone? I just don't see that making a dent. Now maybe 4 cost for a -1/-1 would be great? Then again, we don't know all the cards that are available, so maybe there's some interactions that can hinge on giving someone a -1, and having a stock of them "on command" will make using those cards easier. Or maybe there are cards that generate a lot of threshold that work well with this guy.

Jormungandr
06-22-2013, 06:33 AM
My thoughts on these guys at first glance :

Dwarf Ranger : card draw is a very powerful effect. Remember that charge powers don't deplete your resources at all, or in any other way impede your turn. You just essentially get a free card every 6 or less turns. Especially with charge bot reducing that timer. If you flood out a bit with resources, you get another draw to get you back on track. If you don't flood out, you still get an extra draw at 6 resources when you're either at or close to the point where you can afford to play two spells in a turn. I suspect that once people play with this they'll realize it's pretty good. That being said, you can really only rely on it happening once in a game. And depending upon how fast the aggressive decks are in the format, you might not get to 6 resources some games.

Dwarf Mage : Removal is awesome. This champion only works with an artifact heavy deck, but dwarves seem to already push you towards artifacts pretty hard, so this is a good, if situational, champion.

Dwarf Warrior : Free worker bots every few turns is nothing to sneeze at. They're defensive, and only 1/1's, but they're artifacts, and they seem like in the right deck, they'd be handy. Worst case, you get chump blockers to leave back while you swing in with the rest of your team.

Necrotic Rogue : The rogue is very specific to a mill strategy, so if you have a deck that wants that it seems good. For any other deck, it seems pretty useless. You generally aren't going to win a game through mill unless you've got a deck specifically built to do so. Just the champion won't be enough. The game will still go 20 or 30 turns depending upon the format, and your deck should be able to win in less time than that, as should your opponent's.

Necrotic Warlock : Lifedrain on a troop for a turn is nice, but it doesn't apply pressure to your opponent much. You will still kill your opponent in the same number of turns as you would have without it. It's life gain, which is tough to evaluate. If you've got a more powerful board presence than your opponent, your life total isn't *that* important. He'll have to keep some of his troops back to block, and so he'll be attacking you with less. So adding lifedrain is nice, but not essential. If you have troops that react to lifegain, or troops that pay attention to your life total, etc, the warlock may be good. And it's not bad for a slower deck, as one thing that lifegain does do well is make an aggressive strategy from your opponent more difficult to pull off. But overall, I'm not terribly impressed with the warlock.

Necrotic Warrior : Ping your opponent / gain one life for free every couple of turns seems good to me in most decks. You should be able to rely on that to do 3 or 4 points of damage over the course of the game, which is not insignificant. That can put enough extra pressure on your opponent that they can't attack with as many troops, and that may end up being more beneficial than lifegain alone. Also, assuming the board is gummed up with troops, this gives you a little bit of reach while your armies sit there staring at each other.

Shin'hare Cleric : Don't like the shin'hare cleric too much. I think it'll be useful for sure, but it's a little bit awkward. Since it's a basic action rather than a quick action, you can't use it as a combat trick, so you have to buff one of your troops before you attack which allows your opponent to block accordingly (or let it through). Assuming they block it, you don't gain too much, and if they let it through, it's essentially 2 damage for 4 charge without the lifegain, so it's strictly worse than the necrotic warrior's ability. If I understand the way basic actions work, you can't even buff up one of your troops with it on the opponent's turn to discourage them from attacking. That being said, there are going to be situations where this power is very good, and if you build a deck with this power in mind, it makes some types of creatures better. I just still wish that it was a quick action, but that almost certainly would have been too powerful, for threat of activation alone.

Shin'hare Ranger : 0/1 creature every 3 resource isn't bad. Shin'hare decks seem to have things to do with extra troops, so this seems quite good for that sort of deck. Extra sacrifice fodder / chump blockers fits right into the strategies I've seen for shin'hare.

Shin'hare Warlock : In the right sort of deck you can turn a turn-long buff into a permanent larger creature. Especially in a shin'hare deck where you have some creatures to spare. Let's say you cast a wild growth on a battle hopper and then sacrifice it and another battle hopper to this ability. Instead of having two 0/1's, you have a 4/6. That's not bad, and it's not unlikely that that will be an option as early as turn 4. It's definitely situational, but if you can build a deck with this power in mind, you can get cheap large creatures pretty early. It also provides a (risky) way to build a large creature to break through a clogged board. You can even sac two large abominations to create a huuuge abomination. That does kind of put all of your eggs in one basket, but if the opponent can't find an answer, it can end a game pretty quickly.

Vennen Rogue : This one is pretty lackluster. Permanent power reduction seems kind of good, but it takes three charges, so you'll be doing it 2 or 3 times over the course of a game. It's a good way to blank out a relatively early drop by your opponent, but remember that the first turn you'll be able to use this is at or around turn 3. Creatures played on turn three will generally have more than 1 attack. If you use all the activations on an opponent's best creature over the course of the game you reduce its power by 3 or so. It may still have a non-zero power. It also can still block one of your creatures, even with 0 attack.

Vorpal
06-22-2013, 09:55 AM
The vennen rogue looks weak. All the others look good/interesting.

6 charges for an extra card sounds fair. Card advantage is huge.

It would be laughably undercosted at 3 charged.

snarvid
06-22-2013, 09:58 AM
On Dwarf Ranger - what the World Serpent said. Also, in a classic draw game where the board stabilizes and both sides are drawing to maintain board presence / counter opponents boatd presence, being able to draw even one extra card for "free" (not counting opportunity cost of a different champ) will, all else being equal, net you a win. The ability should go off 1-2 times in such a game.

It is also an ability that benefits many decks, while, say, a 0/1 hopper or being able to do artifact cost in DD are only valuable with a deck built to support them.

Vorpal
06-22-2013, 10:02 AM
Also, not only do I not mind the thresholds, I like them and think they may even be necessary.

Every other card basically has thresholds, I don't see why the champion's charge powers shouldn't as well. It undoubtedly makes it easier to balance and creates more thematically appropriate decks.

If direct damage removal, for example, is supposed to only really show up in ruby decks and wild decks are supposed to struggle at it, then it would be silly to allow the dwarf mage to be running around in a wild deck blowing things up.

Likewise if a certain archetype of deck is supposed to have trouble getting lifedrain, then allowing the necrotic warlock to hand out lifedrain to whoever he wants is also bad.

I hope they keep the thresholds and even expand on them:

I'd like to see some dual element champions in future expansions that might make sense in a sapphire/diamond deck, or a blood/ruby one. Maybe two different charge powers, each on a different threshold? Or a really good charge power that takes a threshold of two diamond and two sapphire?

snarvid
06-22-2013, 10:48 AM
Also, not only do I not mind the thresholds, I like them and think they may even be necessary.

Every other card basically has thresholds, I don't see why the champion's charge powers shouldn't as well. It undoubtedly makes it easier to balance and creates more thematically appropriate decks.

If direct damage removal, for example, is supposed to only really show up in ruby decks and wild decks are supposed to struggle at it, then it would be silly to allow the dwarf mage to be running around in a wild deck blowing things up.

Likewise if a certain archetype of deck is supposed to have trouble getting lifedrain, then allowing the necrotic warlock to hand out lifedrain to whoever he wants is also bad.

I hope they keep the thresholds and even expand on them:

I'd like to see some dual element champions in future expansions that might make sense in a sapphire/diamond deck, or a blood/ruby one. Maybe two different charge powers, each on a different threshold? Or a really good charge power that takes a threshold of two diamond and two sapphire?

Agree. I like threshold on champs, seeing it as a continuation of an existing mechanic rather than a way to shoehorn in another color's effects.

Necrotic Warlock I like with either evasion, steadfast, or rage. While it doesn't change your clock, it does change your opponents. I don't think it will be amazing constructed, but seems draft worthy.

jgsugden
06-22-2013, 10:56 AM
I agree that the thresholds make sense and are likely necessary. They are effectively a free card in your deck. However, I would not be surprised to see threshold less champions at some point, as well as champions with multiple colorthresholds.

If you want to compare MtG and Hex, the Champions act as an accelerant, giving you an additional 'thing' to do with no equivalent cost in traditional MtG. This results in us putting more resources into play faster, and is one of serveral reasons I see Hex games being much faster than MtG. Thus, I think the better Champions will be the ones with lower charge costs so that they can impact the game faster. Monika'shin (0/1 for 3) will be good, Bertram (1/1 Defensive for 3) will be good, as will Gozzog (steal 1 life from other champion for 2), I think. I also think Nin (Bury top 2 cards fo opponents deck for 2) is going to have some special uses. If you get a regular way to look at an opponent's top cards (Sylvan Library, etc... from MtG), this becomes a lockdown strategy.

Of course, we may still see a number of cards that interrupt a Champion's ability to operate. If so, we may be making far too much of these abilities.

Moon_Knight
06-22-2013, 12:52 PM
I would love to see the Vennen Rouge be a Quick action that would be a great way to make him better.
Other than that I think that the champions are in great balance. Sure some are build around but that’s fine.
Also the artwork is amazing!
At least that’s my opinion.
Keep up the great work CZE!!!

Kilo24
06-22-2013, 04:05 PM
Count me among those who dislike threshold on champions. They reduce the number of champion choices from 20 to 4 for a mono-shard deck, and likely to a not-much-higher number for a multi-shard deck given the unreliability of threshold generation.

And, yeah; the Vennen Rogue is kind of weak.

Fai
06-22-2013, 09:10 PM
Im not a big fan of the thresholds either.
Are these all the Underworld champions or does each race have a version of every class?

Chiany
06-22-2013, 09:26 PM
Are these all the Underworld champions or does each race have a version of every class?

For now they are, mostlikely there will be new ones next set or block.

ZacPhoenix
06-22-2013, 09:45 PM
The thresholds ensure they stay thematically linked to the classes and overall shard strategies. I think some asymmetry in a game makes it less sterile and more interesting. I'm in favour of them.

Fai
06-22-2013, 11:51 PM
For now they are, mostlikely there will be new ones next set or block.

Thats too bad but atleast theres more to look forward to in expansions.

Vomitlord
06-23-2013, 04:40 AM
The thresholds ensure they stay thematically linked to the classes and overall shard strategies. I think some asymmetry in a game makes it less sterile and more interesting. I'm in favour of them.

This.

Also people are judging charge powers with half the cards as yet unrevealed.

Personally I want the champion powers underwhelming.I want the game to be about deck building and skill, not your choice of champion.

Vorpal
06-23-2013, 04:43 AM
The thresholds ensure they stay thematically linked to the classes and overall shard strategies. I think some asymmetry in a game makes it less sterile and more interesting. I'm in favour of them.

Exactly. It also makes it easier to balance by limiting what kinds of abilities are available to which shard type decks.

jestersmind
06-23-2013, 09:08 AM
I play MtG commander format exclusively for the past couple years, and personally I think the threshold is required and actually make deck building better. You can build a deck around a champion or pick the champion that works best with the deck you built. Either way, you .

Furthermore, the abilities are relatively weak in the grand scheme of things until you remember that you don't even use resources to activate them.

In a competitive game I imagine the dwarf ranger is not great, I mean you are likely only going to draw one or two free cards. The free unit champions are exploitable.

I think nin could end up being used regularly given the low cost, if they make milling a viable competitive strategy.

I think nec warrior will be viable, while you just work your deck he slowly leeches life from the opponent, his threshold is only one blood, this is great for standard play or limited.

My 2 cents

facade
06-23-2013, 10:41 AM
The reason for the apparent weakness of the vennen rogue might be due to it's versatility.

Of the ten champions shown so far, only two of them directly address opponent creatures, the vennen rogue and dwarf mage. Dealing with creatures is usually prized pretty highly, especially in draft. The dwarf mage, however, is conditional on using artifacts.

Currently, the vennen rogue is the only champion that affects the opponent's creatures that doesn't put requirements on the deck you build.

Vorpal
06-23-2013, 01:38 PM
It's certainly true that some will shine in draft and others will do better in constructed.

Delrusant
06-23-2013, 03:13 PM
Threshold of one alow easy two shards decks whereas threshold of 2 needs a lot more reflection and playtesting before choosing it for multi-shard.

As for monoshard we need to see the ardent champions before being completely critical (as the threshold will be limiting not really the faction of the hero).

I do think that for PvP, it is good that the powers are not too big and that you may see different theme between draft and constructed because of number of charges required.

Then for the moment we associate charge with lands but for the dwarves at least some cards give a charge to the hero so some synergies may appear within the rest of the set.


I do also think that they may want to promote some "basic play theme" before going more peculiar with new PvP champions in further sets.

NyXDaE
06-23-2013, 04:36 PM
Are the majority of the Champions male characters? I know two of the races for the underworld are all male, but that make me think then that the others should favor female champions to mix it up.

mydragoon
06-23-2013, 07:06 PM
i'm ok with treshold. i think it makes deckbuilding even more challenging, which is fine with me.

but correct me if i'm wrong here about the charges. we get 1 charge per resource deployed. unlike mana, they dun get replenished at each turn. if this is correct... then i see some powers being not very useful...

example: Dwarf Ranger's power to draw 1 card costs 6 charges. meaning you lay 6 resources to just get 6 charges. i think at most, we'll only see this power being used twice.

personally, i'm more interested in abilities that dun require activation, if any. maybe a bonus or ability that applies to a mono-deck or triggered when a certain condition is met -- like as long as no troops are in play, or sth...

ZacPhoenix
06-23-2013, 08:43 PM
What will be interesting is how the champions affect the way you draft, and having to think of what champions will work best with the cards you have selected.

PetyrBaelish
06-23-2013, 08:52 PM
Are the majority of the Champions male characters? I know two of the races for the underworld are all male, but that make me think then that the others should favor female champions to mix it up.

I second this we need more female champions and cards in general.

AstronauticFrog
06-23-2013, 10:47 PM
Based on the layout of the champion cards, with each having an attack of 0 and 20 life printed on the card, I think we can expect Cryptozoic to play around with both those numbers later on. I could see them going with somewhat the way Heroes are designed in their WoWTCG.

CoFaX
06-24-2013, 01:34 AM
So only 10 champs for PvP and more then 48 for PvE(for every fraction)? Nice news... Who wanna Dwarf priest?

Estar1
06-24-2013, 06:53 PM
So only 10 champs for PvP and more then 48 for PvE(for every fraction)? Nice news... Who wanna Dwarf priest?

Theres 20 pvp champs, there will be 10 ardent champs as well (tho u can play a underworld champs in a human deck if u want to)

CoFaX
06-24-2013, 10:32 PM
Theres 20 pvp champs, there will be 10 ardent champs as well (tho u can play a underworld champs in a human deck if u want to)
Why only 20? Or they will give us 20 for PvE too? Or it will be all 48-96 champions for PvE and only 20 for PvP? The same problem with WoW TCG... I was hoped that they give us chance to create our champion with class/race combination... Sad news for me.

Verdant
06-25-2013, 12:56 AM
Based on the layout of the champion cards, with each having an attack of 0 and 20 life printed on the card, I think we can expect Cryptozoic to play around with both those numbers later on. I could see them going with somewhat the way Heroes are designed in their WoWTCG.
They already are. Mercenary Aethynia gets +10 health on last dungeon attempt.

As for Dwarf Ranger with 6 charges, don't forget that there are ways to gain charges without playing resources, and they are right up Dwarves' alley.

Avignon
06-25-2013, 02:48 AM
Anyone who doesn't like the fact that there are thresholds needs to understand that they are there to be part of deck building. When you make a deck in WoW TCG, a big part of what you are doing is how your champion (Hero in WoW TCG) interacts with your deck. A lot of decks are built around the champion.

Making a 60 card deck, then getting upset because the champion that matches your strategy has a high threshold or is a different shard colour is not the games fault.

Furthermore, in limited/sealed, a critical thing to think about is "by going this shard, what champion options do I have and how do they impact what I should be looking for". If you end up with the milling artifact, you need to understand that to make best use of it you need to consider Nin who uses sapphire. Its an extra thing to think about that you would not need to worry about in MTG, but adds another level of complexity to the game which makes it heaps more fun.

Chiany
06-25-2013, 03:09 AM
Anyone who doesn't like the fact that there are thresholds needs to understand that they are there to be part of deck building. When you make a deck in WoW TCG, a big part of what you are doing is how your champion (Hero in WoW TCG) interacts with your deck. A lot of decks are built around the champion.


Indeed, and I love that they added it this way in Hex too.

btw Love your Signature!!

Avignon
06-25-2013, 03:34 AM
Indeed, and I love that they added it this way in Hex too.

btw Love your Signature!!

Thanks, kudos to Greyguard in our guild Elementary. He made it for me, and makes them for anyone for $50. Well actually thats not entirely true, but if you offered him $50 he probably would!

Greyguard
06-25-2013, 11:32 PM
Thanks for the compliments Chainy! makes my work all the more worthwhile!