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BohemianStalker
06-25-2013, 01:01 PM
Just got fired from my first guild in HEX thanks to stating I would like to multibox. What a shame but it also made me smile a little. Multiboxing has been discussed to death and in 90% of games I played it was not considered as exploiting or cheating - in games like Diablo 3 or Path of Exile.

So what do you HEX guys think, do we have to discuss this to death here too? Shall be the same arguments made?
Or maybe whats the official state?
This might well be my 3rd post where OP_Kyle will respond, I suspect him following me..

Diesbudt
06-25-2013, 01:06 PM
-First off we do not know how the game will launch. It may require separate devices and not allow a second launch on the dame device.
-Second, we do not know CZE's stance. That is the important stance
-Third, If allow each account MUST be on a different credit card (CZE's response on multiple accounts in a stream) because they are not fans of people using multiple accounts (because it shouldn't be needed)
-Fourth, what is the point of multiboxing a raid? That sounds pretty abysmal and boring to me personally. I like to play cards with people, which is my plan in raids.

Brumby66
06-25-2013, 01:11 PM
Actually we do know their stance. Multiboxing is allowed as long as you don't have multiple VIP subscriptions. It will be accepted as long as it is not detrimental to the community. I wish multiboxing was not allowed, but they already said that it is. You will need a cc for each account. I'm sure someone will give a link to where they said this.

RobHaven
06-25-2013, 01:14 PM
Multiboxing is one of those things that I hate, but I have no idea why. I can't put my finger on what it is that I don't like about it, but rest assured that it bothers me to no end.

Regarding your removal from a guild: If I know of someone multiboxing, I'll probably distance myself from them as well. It just doesn't feel right - like it's not in the spirit of the game or something.

Fleckenwhatever
06-25-2013, 01:16 PM
http://cdn0.meme.li/instances/300x300/27541480.jpg

BohemianStalker
06-25-2013, 01:17 PM
You will need a cc only for accounts where you pay for cards no? I cant imagine making cc necessity for every f2p casual..

Diesbudt you may be surprised but people consider fun differently. I love taking care of all the roles, it is like BG2 for me.

hammer
06-25-2013, 01:18 PM
Lol which clan booted you for this....

BohemianStalker
06-25-2013, 01:19 PM
Multiboxing is one of those things that I hate, but I have no idea why. I can't put my finger on what it is that I don't like about it, but rest assured that it bothers me to no end.

Regarding your removal from a guild: If I know of someone multiboxing, I'll probably distance myself from them as well. It just doesn't feel right - like it's not in the spirit of the game or something.

sounds like racist people tbh haha

cavench
06-25-2013, 01:20 PM
The most direct scenario that comes to me right now is joining a 8 player draft, where all 8 players are the same person. Or to a lesser extreme, 2 of the 8 players is the same person, even if the 2nd entry loses first round it still successfully scouted opponent's deck. Unfair advantage.

BohemianStalker
06-25-2013, 01:20 PM
Lol which clan booted you for this....

Dont think it would be good for them, dont see the reason calling mum and yelling about it.. just it is a shame because I wanted to be really dedicated and I like the clan. I thought about adding my experience with multiboxing and adding my long history in competetive pvp. Felt I have something unique to add...well didnt happen :)

BohemianStalker
06-25-2013, 01:28 PM
The most direct scenario that comes to me right now is joining a 8 player draft, where all 8 players are the same person. Or to a lesser extreme, 2 of the 8 players is the same person, even if the 2nd entry loses first round it still successfully scouted opponent's deck. Unfair advantage.

thats not really a problem since there is not so many people who can pay 7 drafts often - well I dont think there are any actually and even if there are, is such a small number it changes nothing, the issue you described is non existent.

You should worry more about the PvE 3 raid multibox..but so little people multibox that i dont think its an issue...the real issue are bots.

hex_colin
06-25-2013, 01:32 PM
The most direct scenario that comes to me right now is joining a 8 player draft, where all 8 players are the same person. Or to a lesser extreme, 2 of the 8 players is the same person, even if the 2nd entry loses first round it still successfully scouted opponent's deck. Unfair advantage.

Entering the same draft more than once on 2 different accounts - clearly cheating! CZE should find ways to detect this without screwing over legitimate uses that look the same, e.g. 2 roommates entering the same draft (but on the same IP). Besides, there is all sorts of mischief by 2+ people working together could get involved in (e.g. making sub-optimal draft choices to pass cards to their friend and enrich their deck), especially in the digital realm, and it wouldn't be "obvious" in the same way one person trying to enter the same draft twice might be.

However, what if I wanted to play 2 distinct drafts at the same time? Maybe I'm yearning for a time when I could multi-table 8 or 12 poker tournaments at one time... That doesn't strike me as cheating, and probably gives your 2 opponents a little advantage.

And, who really cares if you "solo" a raid boss using 2 or 3 accounts? It's not hurting anyone. The raid PVE in this game is virtually set up for "multi-boxing".

Of course, I'm happy to abide by whatever rules CZE decides upon, irrespective of which side of this argument they come down on.

MoikPEI
06-25-2013, 01:46 PM
You will need a cc for each account.
That will kill the game and I would want my money back.

cavench
06-25-2013, 01:48 PM
However, what if I wanted to play 2 distinct drafts at the same time? Maybe I'm yearning for a time when I could multi-table 8 or 12 poker tournaments at one time... That doesn't strike me as cheating, and probably gives your 2 opponents a little advantage.

I would welcome this option as well. My playing time is limited, so if I can squeeze in 2 tournies at once I would certainly try. Anyone know Mtgo's policy on simultaneous tournies?

Brumby66
06-25-2013, 01:51 PM
That will kill the game and I would want my money back.


You won't need a credit card to create an account, just to make purchases on the account (there will also be other payment options, but they are still being explored). Sorry if my response confused you.

RobHaven
06-25-2013, 02:10 PM
CZE should find ways to detect this without screwing over legitimate uses that look the same, e.g. 2 roommates entering the same draft (but on the same IP).

The way online poker used to work was that two people using the same or related* IPs or accounts could not sit together unless it was a custom table.

* Any interaction between two accounts made them connected, so they could no longer play together.

hex_colin
06-25-2013, 02:15 PM
Yeah, that limitation might be a small price to pay (for the 2 roommates) to reduce the potential for a single person entering the same tournament twice. 2+ people with more nefarious intent could be at different IPs in loads of other ways though - mobile connections, VPNs, different locations/voice chat, etc.

BohemianStalker
06-25-2013, 02:39 PM
Yeah, that limitation might be a small price to pay (for the 2 roommates) to reduce the potential for a single person entering the same tournament twice. 2+ people with more nefarious intent could be at different IPs in loads of other ways though - mobile connections, VPNs, different locations/voice chat, etc.

It would be better to make automated system watch ing statistic: if account A plays in draft with accoung B more than x (which is propability of two people together in random match ) / by number of matches , then clearly if the equal is like 3x more than it should be, something is rotten here :)

wayne
06-25-2013, 02:42 PM
No to pvp, maybe ok for pve. Not sure how they can stop this effectively, but hopefully it will at least be hard enough that only the most dedicated of exploiters will take advantage of this.

hex_colin
06-25-2013, 02:55 PM
No to pvp...

Really? Is it that black and white? What about the use case where I want to play 2 distinct, and unrelated, tournaments at one time?

stiii
06-25-2013, 03:55 PM
Really? Is it that black and white? What about the use case where I want to play 2 distinct, and unrelated, tournaments at one time?

The main issue is that it leads to making other players wait a lot. It is possible to play two rounds at the same time but not quickly so one player is left sitting about waiting for you to finish playing the other guy. (this is assuming it is the same as MTGO but it seems pretty likely it is similar enough to still have this problem)

Vorpal
06-25-2013, 04:03 PM
I don't think there is any practical way to prevent multiboxing.

My wife and I both plan to play. Maybe others in the apt as well. There's simply no way to tell if the multiple computers connecting from a location is one person on multiple computers or multiple people on a computer each.

Moreover, aside from the VIP thing, I don't think folks really gain anything from the multiboxing (they've already said the free starter you get isn't tradeable, to curb that potential abuse)

Vorpal
06-25-2013, 04:06 PM
The most direct scenario that comes to me right now is joining a 8 player draft, where all 8 players are the same person. Or to a lesser extreme, 2 of the 8 players is the same person, even if the 2nd entry loses first round it still successfully scouted opponent's deck. Unfair advantage.

This is no different than 8 friends living together joining the same draft. or 2 friends being in the same tournament and one scouting for the other.

Do you propose to ban friends who live together from playing?

Note that preventing people from the same IP address winding up in the same draft is a sensible precaution whether or not all those people are the same person and I have no problem with it.

stiii
06-25-2013, 04:06 PM
You can raid with yourself rather than having to find other players.

Vorpal
06-25-2013, 04:10 PM
I don't see one person raiding with 3 accounts instead of two friends at all problematic. If that's what they enjoy, fine. It doesn't negatively impact my own play in any way.

As far as the time issue for being in two different tournaments at once, turns have a time limit already, I believe, so that shouldn't be an issue.

ZeroCool
06-25-2013, 04:11 PM
Really? Is it that black and white? What about the use case where I want to play 2 distinct, and unrelated, tournaments at one time?

umm...don't?

Vorpal
06-25-2013, 04:11 PM
I don't see one person raiding with 3 accounts instead of two friends at all problematic. If that's what they enjoy, fine. It doesn't negatively impact my own play in any way.

As far as the time issue for being in two different tournaments at once, turns have a time limit already, I believe, so that shouldn't be an issue.

ZeroCool
06-25-2013, 04:11 PM
Really? Is it that black and white? What about the use case where I want to play 2 distinct, and unrelated, tournaments at one time?

umm...don't?

stiii
06-25-2013, 04:45 PM
I don't see one person raiding with 3 accounts instead of two friends at all problematic. If that's what they enjoy, fine. It doesn't negatively impact my own play in any way.

As far as the time issue for being in two different tournaments at once, turns have a time limit already, I believe, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Will you still think that if each of your matches involves you waiting for 10 minutes for them to finish another match?

XagoTrunk
06-25-2013, 05:05 PM
-Fourth, what is the point of multiboxing a raid? That sounds pretty abysmal and boring to me personally. I like to play cards with people, which is my plan in raids.
Soloing a raid is highly attractive to some people. I obviously plan on raiding with other people but sometimes I just wanna say fuck it and not have to rely on others to be successful. I often daydreamed when I was raiding in WoW that I could clone myself 24 times and do 25man raids by myself because I was carrying other people too damn hard. Also it allows fun deck combos to be explored like maybe 3x decks with 4 princess cory cards in them and whatnot

Brumby66
06-25-2013, 05:11 PM
Soloing a raid is highly attractive to some people. I obviously plan on raiding with other people but sometimes I just wanna say fuck it and not have to rely on others to be successful. I often daydreamed when I was raiding in WoW that I could clone myself 24 times and do 25man raids by myself because I was carrying other people too damn hard. Also it allows fun deck combos to be explored like maybe 3x decks with 4 princess cory cards in them and whatnot

When I feel like soloing a raid that's what I'll do. I won't be multiboxing it.

stiii
06-25-2013, 05:18 PM
When I feel like soloing a raid that's what I'll do. I won't be multiboxing it.

What do you even mean by this?

Surely doing a raid with one person/one account will be almost impossible, I doubt you could do a 25 man raid with 6 people

Brumby66
06-25-2013, 05:23 PM
What do you even mean by this?

Surely doing a raid with one person/one account will be almost impossible, I doubt you could do a 25 man raid with 6 people

It will be almost impossible, but as long as its not totally impossible I'll give it a shot. I don't mind going at it over and over again if I can make a little bit of progress. I usually like to play in a group, but I can understand when you want to just do your own thing. I'd get more satisfaction from going solo than multiboxing.

hex_colin
06-25-2013, 06:14 PM
Will you still think that if each of your matches involves you waiting for 10 minutes for them to finish another match?

Then they'd have lost 10 precious minutes from their clock making it more likely that they'll make a mistake under pressure of time. You should want your opponents to have their attention split. Everyone gets a finite time to play their match - what do you care if they take the time working on another draft, or analyzing every move to death in their match against you and using their full clock that way?

I'd play against someone who was in 2 drafts ALL THE TIME ;)

Given the number of different threads where people are "concerned" about how much time it takes to play their match, I'm beginning to think a good strategy will be to use up as much of the clock as possible in every match. Irritated opponents make bad decisions ;)

MoikPEI
06-25-2013, 06:38 PM
It will be almost impossible, but as long as its not totally impossible I'll give it a shot. I don't mind going at it over and over again if I can make a little bit of progress. I usually like to play in a group, but I can understand when you want to just do your own thing. I'd get more satisfaction from going solo than multiboxing.

I'm going to give it a shot too. My perspective on that kind of thing; time and again 'impossible' tasks in any game are defeated by its community. I can't think of an instance of a designer saying 'it will be impossible to do X" or " it will take Y hours to do this" and not be completely shut down by the pros. As far as I'm concerned the question isn't if raids can be solo'd, but how soon for which ones and by who.

Vorpal
06-25-2013, 06:39 PM
Will you still think that if each of your matches involves you waiting for 10 minutes for them to finish another match?

There's already a time limit built into the game (from what it appears). If there's not, there should be, and not just for a multi boxing chance.

DoctorJoe
06-26-2013, 04:47 AM
Then they'd have lost 10 precious minutes from their clock making it more likely that they'll make a mistake under pressure of time. You should want your opponents to have their attention split. Everyone gets a finite time to play their match - what do you care if they take the time working on another draft, or analyzing every move to death in their match against you and using their full clock that way?

I'd play against someone who was in 2 drafts ALL THE TIME ;)

Given the number of different threads where people are "concerned" about how much time it takes to play their match, I'm beginning to think a good strategy will be to use up as much of the clock as possible in every match. Irritated opponents make bad decisions ;)

I play limited formats quite a bit on MTGO. It is a personal pet peeve of mine if I think someone is multiqueuing and wasting my time, however, I acknowledge that I am being impatient. I also know that not all delays are multiqueuing. Sometimes it is a child/pet/important phone call that causes delays. Sometimes it is a spotty internet connection causing lag and disconnects.

It does provide a clock and play quality advantage, but it comes at the cost of focus. If you know someone who can sit there and wait patiently at their computer for 10 minutes when the game could go at any time without being distracted by the countless other things their machine can do to entertain them, you should give them a cookie.

Additionally, it's typically not just your opponent that you're making wait. The match that's going long on MTGO is probably holding up 6+ other people from starting the next round. I do realize that sometimes it's a couple sweet decks that have a lot of interactions and those matches take time to play, but when my matches go long, that is rarely the case. Anecdotal evidence is no substitute for actual statistics, so take that with a grain of salt as the statistics in this case are probably near-impossible to obtain.

Disclaimer: I have multiqueued on MTGO before. It caused a serious hit to my play quality and all I succeeded in doing was burning my entry fee budget twice as quickly. Maybe it's just sour grapes on my part that some people can do it and I'm no good at it.

I can't see them disallowing multiqueuing even if slow opponents are slightly annoying. It doesn't make much sense to box off part of the community or to not accept money as long as there isn't any occlusion going on.

Arbiter
06-26-2013, 05:47 AM
I doubt that it will be an issue in PVP. I really do not think that CZE will allow you to group queue on 8-man tournaments, and if the pool of people is large enough, may design the queues to keep people in the same guilds (or associated accounts) from the same draft pods.

Quite simply, if three to four people are cooperating in a draft it provides a massively unfair advantage and a negative play experience for everyone else. It basically forces you to draft in groups, and makes it not worth it for a solo player to try drafts.

In pretty much any MMO, go into a group PVP environment and hear people complain about going up against coordinated groups. It discourages people, and basically their only options are find a group or live with it. In Hex it will be magnified because it is pay to PVP. If people find they cannot get a decent draft experience without a group they'll either find a group or stop drafting. Tournament attendances will drop and the rating system won't be worth the memory it's stored in.

Multiboxing PVP would be like the chess champs who can it down and play multiple opponents. If somebody can do it and do it well, good on them.

BohemianStalker
06-26-2013, 05:54 AM
When I feel like soloing a raid that's what I'll do. I won't be multiboxing it.

ahh I am going to enjoy my 3x loot :-p

Brumby66
06-26-2013, 06:03 AM
ahh I am going to enjoy my 3x loot :-p

Good thing they reward you for doing it with less than 3.

BohemianStalker
06-26-2013, 06:07 AM
Good thing they reward you for doing it with less than 3.

sure they do except when you do it with three accounts youll get three times the loot and it will be faster, or am I wrong? Thaths the whole purpose of it.

Brumby66
06-26-2013, 06:13 AM
sure they do except when you do it with three accounts youll get three times the loot and it will be faster, or am I wrong? Thaths the whole purpose of it.

I'm betting that the loot tables will be different on 3 player raid and 2 player raid. There will be incentives to challenge yourself. I'd take 1 roll at good stuff over 3 rolls of mediocre stuff. You are also going to have to level up 3 champions, get gear for 3, get cards for 3, etc. I don't know their stance on funneling raid loot to one account. We shall see, but allowing a single player to put 3x loot on the marketplace will destroy the gold economy.

BohemianStalker
06-26-2013, 06:32 AM
I'm betting that the loot tables will be different on 3 player raid and 2 player raid. There will be incentives to challenge yourself. I'd take 1 roll at good stuff over 3 rolls of mediocre stuff. You are also going to have to level up 3 champions, get gear for 3, get cards for 3, etc. I don't know their stance on funneling raid loot to one account. We shall see, but allowing a single player to put 3x loot on the marketplace will destroy the gold economy.

nonsense. it all depends on how many people multibox and it usually is less than 5%. so it doesnt destroy anything. Also I cant imagine the loot table would be different if you play alone or with friends, this way playing with friends would be discouraged because the best stuff would drop only solo.

Brumby66
06-26-2013, 06:37 AM
nonsense. it all depends on how many people multibox and it usually is less than 5%. so it doesnt destroy anything. Also I cant imagine the loot table would be different if you play alone or with friends, this way playing with friends would be discouraged because the best stuff would drop only solo.

I didn't say solo would have different loot. I said duo would, which still encourages friendly playing. As far as the less than 5% multiboxing, I doubt it. Many people already have multiple accounts due to multipledging. If everything is tradable from raids then they can all be bought on the AH. If everything can be bought on the AH then that kind of defeats the purpose. If things are nontradable then I don't really care and you can multibox to your heart's content.

BohemianStalker
06-26-2013, 07:16 AM
I didn't say solo would have different loot. I said duo would, which still encourages friendly playing. As far as the less than 5% multiboxing, I doubt it. Many people already have multiple accounts due to multipledging. If everything is tradable from raids then they can all be bought on the AH. If everything can be bought on the AH then that kind of defeats the purpose. If things are nontradable then I don't really care and you can multibox to your heart's content.

I can mutlibox to my hearts content even if you care. they already confirmed its ok...and yea its less than 5%in diablo where you could make serious money all of people I knew no one multiboxed...same in poe..multiboxers are rare.

Brumby66
06-26-2013, 07:31 AM
I can mutlibox to my hearts content even if you care. they already confirmed its ok...and yea its less than 5%in diablo where you could make serious money all of people I knew no one multiboxed...same in poe..multiboxers are rare.

If there is money to be made from multiboxing then a lot of people will do that. I'll even do it. They already said that they won't be dealing with the secondary market on items. It is waaaay easier to multibox a card game than a real time game...

1) I can farm items very easily.
2) I can sell items for real cash with it being legal.
3) Everything is tradable (if it is, which I hope is not the case.)

You don't think there is a problem with that? and they said that it's confirmed as long as it's not detrimental to the community or seen as exploiting. You don't know what their definitions of detrimental or exploitation are therefore you cannot say that your scenario is confirmed.

MoikPEI
06-26-2013, 08:29 AM
3) Everything is tradable (if it is, which I hope is not the case.)

I believe it was confirmed by the devs in one Spectral Lotus Garden thread or another that everything except account flags like Raid Leader are tradeable.

Brumby66
06-26-2013, 08:35 AM
I believe it was confirmed by the devs in one Spectral Lotus Garden thread or another that everything except account flags like Raid Leader are tradeable.

I think that was in reference to the KS stuff. If everything in PvE is tradable then it defeats the purpose of progression. If this is the case then I'll just sell everything on the PvE side. Most games have items to chase and incentivize progression. If you can just buy everything then it really will be a letdown for me. I'll see what they have planned, as I already have too many concerns with the PvE. Maybe they will put all of my concerns to rest. We shall have to wait and see.

RobHaven
06-26-2013, 09:42 AM
I believe it was confirmed by the devs in one Spectral Lotus Garden thread or another that everything except account flags like Raid Leader are tradeable.

I don't think that's right. What about the faction specific stuff? Can that be traded?

Diesbudt
06-26-2013, 09:44 AM
I don't think that's right. What about the faction specific stuff? Can that be traded?

What faction specific stuff...?

Are you talking the PvE cards you can earn/buy in PvE if you choose X faction over Y? If so I believe that is tradable also. Just cannot obtain the other faction stuff without trading.

ramseytheory
06-26-2013, 09:53 AM
If there is money to be made from multiboxing then a lot of people will do that. I'll even do it. They already said that they won't be dealing with the secondary market on items. It is waaaay easier to multibox a card game than a real time game...

1) I can farm items very easily.
2) I can sell items for real cash with it being legal.
3) Everything is tradable (if it is, which I hope is not the case.)

You don't think there is a problem with that? and they said that it's confirmed as long as it's not detrimental to the community or seen as exploiting. You don't know what their definitions of detrimental or exploitation are therefore you cannot say that your scenario is confirmed.

Wait, what? Outside of raids and tournaments, going through a dungeon with two characters at once will take exactly twice as long as going through a dungeon with one character, so multiboxing will be useless. In tournaments multiboxing would be potentially abusive, but difficult due to the queue system and quite possibly banned. (I certainly hope so.) In raids, multiboxing would give you three times the item yield, which honestly wouldn't be enough of an incentive for me to go through the hassle of levelling up three separate accounts.

Also, PVE stuff is definitely all tradeable, as it should be. You can have items to chase and incentivise progression without forcing that progression to be through a long, drawn-out grind until the RNG feels generous enough to drop the specific gear that you need. (You do realise that champions gain abilities by levelling up as well as by getting new cards and equipment, right?)

Diesbudt
06-26-2013, 09:56 AM
Wait, what? Outside of raids and tournaments, going through a dungeon with two characters at once will take exactly twice as long as going through a dungeon with one character, so multiboxing will be useless. In tournaments multiboxing would be potentially abusive, but difficult due to the queue system and quite possibly banned. (I certainly hope so.) In raids, multiboxing would give you three times the item yield, which honestly wouldn't be enough of an incentive for me to go through the hassle of levelling up three separate accounts.

Also, PVE stuff is definitely all tradeable, as it should be. You can have items to chase and incentivise progression without forcing that progression to be through a long, drawn-out grind until the RNG feels generous enough to drop the specific gear that you need. (You do realise that champions gain abilities by levelling up as well as by getting new cards and equipment, right?)

Not only level up, but since every stage and/or opponents action requires one to press that nice priority button (to pass not playing a counter/action) one would have to go from screen to screen to screen to click it each and every stage.

I know just watching the 1v1 stream, there was like 3-5 button clicks require per opponent's turn. That would get so annoying.

And yes champions can level up to 50? And it may take a while in the end. And some levels they gain new abilities and get stronger and such. So leveling up 3 accounts would be difficult, since dungeons are solo. So one cannot (like WoW/D3) just have all the characters pressing the same button at once.

Brumby66
06-26-2013, 10:02 AM
Wait, what? Outside of raids and tournaments, going through a dungeon with two characters at once will take exactly twice as long as going through a dungeon with one character, so multiboxing will be useless. In tournaments multiboxing would be potentially abusive, but difficult due to the queue system and quite possibly banned. (I certainly hope so.) In raids, multiboxing would give you three times the item yield, which honestly wouldn't be enough of an incentive for me to go through the hassle of levelling up three separate accounts.

Also, PVE stuff is definitely all tradeable, as it should be. You can have items to chase and incentivise progression without forcing that progression to be through a long, drawn-out grind until the RNG feels generous enough to drop the specific gear that you need. (You do realise that champions gain abilities by levelling up as well as by getting new cards and equipment, right?)

That's a good point on the dungeon running part assuming that you have to repeat the dungeon to reflag for the raid. On the point of everything in PvE is tradable, to my knowledge they have not said that. How is there incentive to go for items if they are all tradable? Who wants to chase an item that you can just get on the AH? That isnt incentivizing completing a raid. Like I said before, if that's how pve is then I'll be selling everything on that side of the game. I don't advocate multiboxing nor do I really want to partake in it.

keldrin
06-26-2013, 09:43 PM
It would be better to make automated system watch ing statistic: if account A plays in draft with accoung B more than x (which is propability of two people together in random match ) / by number of matches , then clearly if the equal is like 3x more than it should be, something is rotten here :)

See, in MTG I only would go to a tournament if I had friends going. The chance to match up against a friend, and possibly eliminate them from the tournament is lots of fun. But doesn't mean I'm up to anything bad.

keldrin
06-26-2013, 09:49 PM
I will be sitting on 2 accounts. I'm not planning on multi boxing raids. However, if the situation was legal, and I was having difficulty getting the grouping/deck builds I thought I needed to beat a certain raid boss, I might consider running a second account for that purpose.
If we assume that beating raids, is a kind of puzzle, and each person in the raid has to bring the right pieces to work with their teammates to beat that raid. Then potentially, you may not always have access to the people with the needed deck builds.
This problem magnifies, if you are trying to beat a raid, with a combination that is not the normal consensus for winning. Since it might involve decks that other PVE players may not have assembled.

DreamPuppet
06-26-2013, 10:10 PM
That's a good point on the dungeon running part assuming that you have to repeat the dungeon to reflag for the raid. On the point of everything in PvE is tradable, to my knowledge they have not said that. How is there incentive to go for items if they are all tradable? Who wants to chase an item that you can just get on the AH? That isnt incentivizing completing a raid. Like I said before, if that's how pve is then I'll be selling everything on that side of the game. I don't advocate multiboxing nor do I really want to partake in it.

If you're multiboxing whats from stopping you from running 2-3x instances of the same dungeon at a time? The only thing stopping people are decks, if a guy wants to spend $$ on getting multiple competitive PVE decks then thats his choice, just like the guy running 50 WoW accounts at $750 a month.

As far as i recall no dungeon or raid equipment drops are bound and they keep saying that people have no idea how rare some items will be, maybe legendary equipment will be like in vanilla WoW where most people thought they were just a myth and not like in recent WoW where every brain dead player can get one.

keldrin
06-27-2013, 12:00 AM
As far as i recall no dungeon or raid equipment drops are bound and they keep saying that people have no idea how rare some items will be, maybe legendary equipment will be like in vanilla WoW where most people thought they were just a myth and not like in recent WoW where every brain dead player can get one.
I heard tale of the possible legendary equipement in yon dungeon. The village elder says it was told of since the days of his great grandfather. But though rumors of findings have been heard, and many have ventured into the dark in search, all known have returned with not but chests of gold.

Slish
06-27-2013, 01:21 AM
I dont know why. But OP comes over as very cocky/arrogant. Not a pleasant person.
That's probably why he wants to do raid alone and clone himself as well..

Stok3d
06-27-2013, 06:53 AM
I haven't read through all the posts, but I personally don't see any advantage to someone playing three accounts at the same time PVE other than ease in finding someone to play with that has a desired deck.

This also isn't multiboxing in the traditional sense. 1 key stroke won't broadcast to all accounts--it can't. Honestly, it sounds more of a hassle than fun. I may play my wife's account once to try it maybe in a 2man dungeon when they come out. But seems more trouble than it's worth.

BohemianStalker
06-27-2013, 07:16 AM
I dont know why. But OP comes over as very cocky/arrogant. Not a pleasant person.
That's probably why he wants to do raid alone and clone himself as well..

No, I just enjoy it while you like to define truth according to your views.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 07:42 AM
No, I just enjoy it while you like to define truth according to your views.

Which is fine. If it isn't against the rules and you enjoy it, more power to you.

I just see this as being way too much to be enjoyable in any sense. And not because mulitboxing in general (I have done it on WoW and D3) But that was easy. I can bind all my abilities to one button and play them all at once.

However since dungeons are single player. You have to either play 3 dungeons at the same time taking turns (which would take the same time as 1 at a time, just they all complete at same time instead, unless one dies) there is no joy in that (to me).

Add in each time an opponent (in a raid) has a stage in the turn sequence changed, or plays a troop, or casts and action... each account has to press that nice pass priority button (unless one of them have something to play). And that means going between the 3 accounts and pressing it. 3-5 times minimum per opponent turn. And since Raids are supposed to take a while, that to me seems like it would get very boring and annoying fast.

Basically I do not see multiboxing in a TCG near as useful, fun or enjoyable as I would in a game like warcraft or D3. Warcraft it was enjoyable... until 1 died, then having to get him back with the group was a pain in the ass.

BohemianStalker
06-27-2013, 10:12 AM
Which is fine. If it isn't against the rules and you enjoy it, more power to you.

I just see this as being way too much to be enjoyable in any sense. And not because mulitboxing in general (I have done it on WoW and D3) But that was easy. I can bind all my abilities to one button and play them all at once.

However since dungeons are single player. You have to either play 3 dungeons at the same time taking turns (which would take the same time as 1 at a time, just they all complete at same time instead, unless one dies) there is no joy in that (to me).

Add in each time an opponent (in a raid) has a stage in the turn sequence changed, or plays a troop, or casts and action... each account has to press that nice pass priority button (unless one of them have something to play). And that means going between the 3 accounts and pressing it. 3-5 times minimum per opponent turn. And since Raids are supposed to take a while, that to me seems like it would get very boring and annoying fast.

Basically I do not see multiboxing in a TCG near as useful, fun or enjoyable as I would in a game like warcraft or D3. Warcraft it was enjoyable... until 1 died, then having to get him back with the group was a pain in the ass.

This is not topic regarding setting up your multibox experience, however I will still reply, since you are the one of few people who dont spam my topic and your post also

The value of multiboxing dungeons is low because they are appealing to much broader public. Also all the dungeon crawlers will initially flood the market with their 2x loot bonus, which will devaluate the dugeon loot value even further. While raids are harder and there is no possible kickstarter bonus to them, that loot will be worth much more ( how much more? that we can only speculate for now)

I believe there will be a button which will make you pass all of your "priority checks" this turn. Which in practical sense means you will waste about 1-2 sec, clicking this button on both secondary and terciary account. That does not really stand to me like a big disadvantage.

The enjoyment to me comes from looting 3x times of what I would normally loot while giving +10% time. The second big part of my enjoyment comes from playing the three accounts like a thematic party. For instance I might play a blood necromancer - direct creature kills, siphoning, zombies, diamond cleric - healing, paladins, angels and rpyromancer - lots of direct damage. It makes me think about my play experience as if I was playing baldurs gate or planescape torment again. Hell I even might do some Planescape thematic decks and call them after characters - Nameless one deck with lots of discards and drawing cards , Morte deck with some funny effects - like moof gang and stuff, modron deck - "logical" deck based on many conservative and few key experimental artefacts and so on :)

BohemianStalker
06-27-2013, 10:12 AM
Which is fine. If it isn't against the rules and you enjoy it, more power to you.

I just see this as being way too much to be enjoyable in any sense. And not because mulitboxing in general (I have done it on WoW and D3) But that was easy. I can bind all my abilities to one button and play them all at once.

However since dungeons are single player. You have to either play 3 dungeons at the same time taking turns (which would take the same time as 1 at a time, just they all complete at same time instead, unless one dies) there is no joy in that (to me).

Add in each time an opponent (in a raid) has a stage in the turn sequence changed, or plays a troop, or casts and action... each account has to press that nice pass priority button (unless one of them have something to play). And that means going between the 3 accounts and pressing it. 3-5 times minimum per opponent turn. And since Raids are supposed to take a while, that to me seems like it would get very boring and annoying fast.

Basically I do not see multiboxing in a TCG near as useful, fun or enjoyable as I would in a game like warcraft or D3. Warcraft it was enjoyable... until 1 died, then having to get him back with the group was a pain in the ass.

This is not topic regarding setting up your multibox experience, however I will still reply, since you are the one of few people who dont spam my topic and your post also have a constructive value.

The value of multiboxing dungeons is low because they are appealing to much broader public. Also all the dungeon crawlers will initially flood the market with their 2x loot bonus, which will devaluate the dugeon loot value even further. While raids are harder and there is no possible kickstarter bonus to them, their loot will be worth much more ( how much more? that we can only speculate for now).

I believe there will be a button which will make you pass all of your "priority checks" this turn. Which in practical sense means you will waste about 1-2 sec, clicking this button on both secondary and terciary account. That does not really stand to me like a big disadvantage.

The enjoyment of multibox comes to me from looting 3x times of what I would normally loot while giving +10% time. The second big part of my enjoyment comes from playing the three accounts like a thematic party. For instance I might play a blood necromancer - direct creature kills, siphoning, zombies, diamond cleric - healing, paladins, angels and pyromancer - lots of direct damage. It makes me think about my play experience as if I was playing baldurs gate or planescape torment again. Hell I even might do some Planescape thematic decks and call them after characters - Nameless one deck with lots of discards and drawing cards , Morte deck with some funny effects - like moof gang and stuff, modron deck - "logic" based deck on many conservative and few key experimental artefacts and so on :)

stiii
06-27-2013, 10:27 AM
I haven't read through all the posts, but I personally don't see any advantage to someone playing three accounts at the same time PVE other than ease in finding someone to play with that has a desired deck.

This also isn't multiboxing in the traditional sense. 1 key stroke won't broadcast to all accounts--it can't. Honestly, it sounds more of a hassle than fun. I may play my wife's account once to try it maybe in a 2man dungeon when they come out. But seems more trouble than it's worth.

The gain is in speed. You can play through a raid with you controlling all three players faster than you can play through the same raid three times. You end up with more loot.

hex_colin
06-27-2013, 10:35 AM
The gain is in speed. You can play through a raid with you controlling all three players faster than you can play through the same raid three times. You end up with more loot.

Not convinced. While I'm making my plays, the other members of the raid can be planning their actions for their upcoming turns. If I'm playing all 3 decks, I don't have that extra preparation/thinking time. There's a good chance 3 people can run a raid 3 times in the same time or faster than it would take someone to multi-box "solo" it. I don't see an advantage either way. People should be able to play the game however they'd like as long as they are not cheating/exploiting/taking advantage of others.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 10:39 AM
This is not topic regarding setting up your multibox experience, however I will still reply, since you are the one of few people who dont spam my topic and your post also have a constructive value.

The value of multiboxing dungeons is low because they are appealing to much broader public. Also all the dungeon crawlers will initially flood the market with their 2x loot bonus, which will devaluate the dugeon loot value even further. While raids are harder and there is no possible kickstarter bonus to them, their loot will be worth much more ( how much more? that we can only speculate for now).

I believe there will be a button which will make you pass all of your "priority checks" this turn. Which in practical sense means you will waste about 1-2 sec, clicking this button on both secondary and terciary account. That does not really stand to me like a big disadvantage.

The enjoyment of multibox comes to me from looting 3x times of what I would normally loot while giving +10% time. The second big part of my enjoyment comes from playing the three accounts like a thematic party. For instance I might play a blood necromancer - direct creature kills, siphoning, zombies, diamond cleric - healing, paladins, angels and pyromancer - lots of direct damage. It makes me think about my play experience as if I was playing baldurs gate or planescape torment again. Hell I even might do some Planescape thematic decks and call them after characters - Nameless one deck with lots of discards and drawing cards , Morte deck with some funny effects - like moof gang and stuff, modron deck - "logic" based deck on many conservative and few key experimental artefacts and so on :)

And that is all I was wondering why you enjoy it. Because as I said to me, it wouldn't be. And I can see the value in raids as you get 3x loot that you can distribute how you please. But the dungeon running will not be faster as you can't play at once as a "multibox" so is instead just 3 accounts in separate dungeons. So overall speed and loot gain wouldn't be increased.

stiii
06-27-2013, 10:57 AM
Not convinced. While I'm making my plays, the other members of the raid can be planning their actions for their upcoming turns. If I'm playing all 3 decks, I don't have that extra preparation/thinking time. There's a good chance 3 people can run a raid 3 times in the same time or faster than it would take someone to multi-box "solo" it. I don't see an advantage either way. People should be able to play the game however they'd like as long as they are not cheating/exploiting/taking advantage of others.

Surely no matter how long it takes you to think it can't ever take longer? You don't gain any time by having extra players. If the raid takes 30 minutes total for you then playing 3 copies of the raid at worse you do exactly the same thing and each copy require you to spend 30 minutes on it.

I am however also fine with people doing it.

hex_colin
06-27-2013, 11:08 AM
Surely no matter how long it takes you to think it can't ever take longer? You don't gain any time by having extra players. If the raid takes 30 minutes total for you then playing 3 copies of the raid at worse you do exactly the same thing and each copy require you to spend 30 minutes on it.

I am however also fine with people doing it.

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. Probably paying too much attention to actually working. :P

That being said, I don't think it's a 3:1 efficiency gain if you're able to solo "multi-box". The solo multi-boxer will likely complete all of the turns needed slower than 3 people doing it together.

Rtsands45
06-27-2013, 11:15 AM
I could not care less. Little 8 man drafts will matter little if you you play 8-4. More than likely they will be losing money. In bigger tournaments like world qualifiers one would be hard pressed and mentally drained after a couple of rounds of multiboxing. For pve, it really does not matter either as it is Free 2 Play.

stiii
06-27-2013, 11:17 AM
Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. Probably paying too much attention to actually working. :P

That being said, I don't think it's a 3:1 efficiency gain if you're able to solo "multi-box". The solo multi-boxer will likely complete all of the turns needed slower than 3 people doing it together.

You are just so reasonable what sort person on the internet admits they might be wrong :)

It will depends a lot on how good the players are and how exactly raids function. However from my experience in magic with two headed giant (2v2) it was quicker for me to play both decks at the same time because I didn't have to discuss with my team mate what we were doing and why. the extra physical action was less than the time spent discussing what to do.

Vorpal
06-27-2013, 11:21 AM
There is no difference to the rest of the world if someone is running through a raid with two buddies or with a multibox setup, so I don't see any reason to be concerned over it.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 11:35 AM
You are just so reasonable what sort person on the internet admits they might be wrong :)

It will depends a lot on how good the players are and how exactly raids function. However from my experience in magic with two headed giant (2v2) it was quicker for me to play both decks at the same time because I didn't have to discuss with my team mate what we were doing and why. the extra physical action was less than the time spent discussing what to do.

I agree. The only time I have ever not been able to play multiple decks at once as fast if not faster than on a team was when I played 2 decks People gave me to play in a (2v2) that I had no idea what was in each deck. So it took some time inbetween turns.

DrVanPorcine
06-29-2013, 08:42 PM
I'm presently playing RIFT and it can take over 1-2 hours to find a group to play in dungeons...
I don't have a lot of time to sink in the game so multiboxing give me the possibility to enjoy the game content.

I hope I will be able to 'multibox' in Hex for the same reason...

jgsugden
06-29-2013, 09:58 PM
MMO. mMo. Multiplayer.

As with so many things, going it alone may be possible, but you'll have a lot more fun if you do it with someone that gets you and shares your passions. Whether they allow multiboxing or not, I strongly believe that you'll be better off building up a group of people so that you can experience the game with them.

jaxsonbatemanhex
06-29-2013, 10:03 PM
While I can't say what CZE's stance on multiboxing is, they have confirmed that having multiple accounts is fine (as long as you don't sign up to VIP with each). So they could very well be fine with multiboxing. And why wouldn't they; after all, one single player is going to have to have 3 serious decks on their own to multibox a raid, so they're potentially spending 3x as much money as they would by finding two others. Seems like good business to allow multiboxing.

jgsugden
06-29-2013, 10:06 PM
I agree. The only time I have ever not been able to play multiple decks at once as fast if not faster than on a team was when I played 2 decks People gave me to play in a (2v2) that I had no idea what was in each deck. So it took some time inbetween turns.Lots of studies on multi-tasking are out there. One very common finding is that people that think they're great multi-taskers overestimate their capability to multi-task dramatically. Another is that once they've been shown conclusively that they're not as good at it as they thought they were, they tend to get worse at it.

jaxsonbatemanhex
06-29-2013, 10:26 PM
Just keep in mind that unless you have three RL accounts, there's a big benefit to not multiboxing, provided you can actually source RLs to help you out. ;-)

XagoTrunk
06-29-2013, 10:48 PM
Just keep in mind that unless you have three RL accounts, there's a big benefit to not multiboxing, provided you can actually source RLs to help you out. ;-)
https://imageshack.com/scaled/large/259/g4c5.jpg

jaxsonbatemanhex
06-29-2013, 10:59 PM
Geez Xago, you even have 3 playsets of the PvE exclusive cards... I think you'll be just fine multiboxing. :-P

stiii
06-30-2013, 08:45 AM
Lots of studies on multi-tasking are out there. One very common finding is that people that think they're great multi-taskers overestimate their capability to multi-task dramatically. Another is that once they've been shown conclusively that they're not as good at it as they thought they were, they tend to get worse at it.

While this might be true I'm not sure playing three decks in the same event really counts as multi tasking.

heavenscreed
06-30-2013, 11:23 AM
*throws two cents into the jar*

i think multi-boxing should be allowed as long as only one subscription is being used by the player, pretty much what CZE stated. I've met countless milti-boxers in other mmo's cause nobody wants to be a bit- er... healer in a group. In this situation they would focus on the healer aspect and play another class that required little "maintenance" in combat. These kind of players could be very helpful to anyone in the PvE side of things. The example i could think of is two people playing on three accounts and have one build defender/healer for a raid, like the situation above.

Then again there will always be people who try to abuse the system so who knows what we'll see >.>

grey0one
06-30-2013, 06:12 PM
Non-ranked play, such as pve content, don't care. You're just spending more money w/ cryptazoic than I would for the same enjoyment.

Turnament play, you can throw games, see other decks that you haven't played and generally have an unfair edge that a single player doesn't have access to. That should be banned. Yes, you could do the same thing with a group of individuals, but that's called collusion and should be penalized as well.

Edit; I guess I'm saying is that a multiboxer should have the same restrictions as a group of individuals working together. Collusion = cheating in tournaments, but not in pve.