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View Full Version : 25th Card Breakdown Video - with bonus math!



MrSeriousBsns
06-26-2013, 04:05 AM
Hello!

The daily video engine keeps on chugging, this time looking at Relentless Corruption (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn3DXbUqiwQ) (with 4 others since the last time I posted).

I feel like the series has been going at a decent clip and with this video I was really happy to finally use the math that Jax the Hexer came up with regarding Escalation.

As I mentioned in his thread, the "8 draw average" feels like a nice rule of thumb to use when viewing any card with escalation, and I definitely wanted to give credit where credit was due. So, the link to his video is in my comments section as well as right here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz7XgYVR1mg)!

I'm very pleased to have been given so much feedback so far, and really hope you guys can let me know if you have any other thoughts/suggestions/criticisms!

ZeroCool
06-26-2013, 04:49 AM
Thanks for the updates homie.

MrSeriousBsns
06-26-2013, 05:59 AM
And just so I beat anyone else to it - I must have been massively sleep deprived when I interpreted the special ability on this one. Video annotations, don't fail me now!

ramseytheory
06-26-2013, 07:23 AM
I still really don't see why people rate Relentless Corruption as a card outside of a mill deck. Am I just missing something basic here?

The first time you play it, it's worthless. If you manage to play two copies, you've managed to essentially gain one card at the cost of six resources, which is still bad. Even if you manage to play three copies, you've managed to essentially gain four cards for nine resources and a lot of trouble, which is acceptable but not stellar compared to e.g. Pact of Pain or even Oracle Song. The card doesn't really shine until you play four copies. Even then, compare the effects of playing four Relentless Corruptions to the effects of playing four Ragefires or Chronic Madnesses - each an instant win barring shenanigans.

It's actually slightly worse than that, since the cards they give you are coming out of your opponent's deck rather than yours and so are likely to be less useful. A lot of the time, about half your potential draws are going to be off-colour mana, and most of the rest are going to be cards that don't fit your deck. Imagine drawing Inferno as a control deck, or an Adaptable Infusion Device as a mono deck - they're extreme cases, but they illustrate the point. Whenever you're facing a deck built around any kind of synergy (e.g. shin'hare, inspiration, lifegain, mill or dwarves), or even a deck with a different curve to yours (rush versus control), a card from that deck is going to be far less useful to you than a card from your deck.

Occasionally in limited play it might take a bomb out of an opponent's deck, yes, but when you're only going to be milling 1-3 cards in most games the chance of doing so is minimal.

MrSeriousBsns
06-27-2013, 02:25 AM
Well, I think you actually hit the nail on the head in your example. By drawing that Inferno out of your opponents deck, you have stopped him from being able to put you on the clock when he would have otherwise drawn and (likely) played it.

Removing cards from your opponents deck might be hit or miss, but I still think its a very nice control mechanic. Its less about what you'd actually play from the draw (although there will certainly be situations where what you draw is actually something you want to play) and more about what you've taken from them. Sure its a bit slow, but I think with other control mechanics and some card draw, the likelihood of triggering the escalation mechanic is going to be pretty good.

ramseytheory
06-27-2013, 08:02 AM
I still disagree. In general, when milling, the possibility that you remove a game-winning card from your opponent's deck has to be balanced against the far more likely possibility that you get them closer to drawing it. In the example I gave, maybe with the current game state I'm not worried so much about the Inferno as I am about the Te'talca immediately below it. Personally I think it's a wash, so milling is more or less useless unless either you specifically know the top card of your opponent's deck is good or you're trying to mill someone to death. The first case almost never comes up, and the fact that it sometimes does isn't particularly relevant to evaluating cards - even Zodiac Shaman will be a game-winning draw sometimes. For an actual mill deck you're probably better off going with more cost-effective cards like Fate Rack, Chronic Madness and Sabotage.

I think a useful comparison is Omen of Oblivion. Like Relentless Corruption it's rare, but it costs a third of the resources, it's a lot more splashable at 1 threshold, it shows you your opponent's entire deck, it lets you choose which card you want to remove with certainty, and in the event that your opponent actually draws the card it wastes their draw and you get to do the whole thing again. I would say that even that isn't too useful in constructed play, since when your opponent has four copies of a card removing one of them isn't that helpful, but I can see it being very powerful in limited. The only advantages Relentless Corruption has over it are the escalation and the card draw. When other escalation cards are so much more powerful and the card draw is so small and heavily biased towards useless cards, to my mind that's not enough to save it.

To give some perspective, if Relentless Corruption applied to the top two cards of an opponent's deck from the start (possibly with cost 4 rather than 3), I'd consider it a much better card. It would be excellent in a mill deck, and at the very least playable in any control deck with a decent draw engine.

e: We do both agree that Void Leech Phantasm is an amazing card, though.

Ju66ernaut
06-27-2013, 08:40 AM
Thanks Ramsey