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View Full Version : Trial of Faith - Worst TCG card ever?



vulture27
06-26-2013, 09:20 AM
Trial of Faith got my attention originally because it has a lot of flavor as a card (the name + art + effect work perfect together). Everyone can imagine this resolving, putting 10+ angels into play, and crushing your opponent with delight. Only problem is then I started to think about how I could use the card....

Best case scenario seems to be playing first, Diamond/Wild deck with Chlorophyllia and Adaptable Infusion Device so that you can play Test of Faith on turn four. That gives your opponent their turn 4, 5, and 6 before the angels are out, and then one more turn before you can attack for a lethal amount. So what can go wrong?

1. Extinction, Judgement, or any other mass removal on your opponents turn 7. Just concede, you lose.

2. Any card that can remove a constant (notice that Trial does not return any of the voided cards if it is destroyed? That is an issue). There haven't been many revealed yet, but effects like this are very common in Magic: The Gathering, expect them to be common in Hex as well.

3. Your opponent has anything around five power worth of troops when you resolve this.
A. Turn three Briar Legion followed by a turn four Briar Legion? You lose.
B. Fang of the Mountain God and almost any two 2-3 drop creatures? You lose.
C. Runts of the Litter and a Bucktooth Commander? You lose.
D. Wild Aura and almost any 2-3 drop creature? You lose.
E. A turn 1-3 orc and a Zoltog on turn 4? You lose.
(I could keep going for a long time with this list, but point made)

But wait, what if we play a control deck and resolve our own Judgement before hand wiping the board? Maybe even play some life gain to put us above 20 life before resolving Trial of Faith? Well, then Trial just became a "Win-more" card. If you already have a dominant board position that is going to win the game, then this really isn't helping you.

All that said, my biggest issue with this card: It makes you set aside all of your cards and stop playing the game for three turns. Why would CZE ever want to encourage its players to stop playing Hex and just watch their opponent play the game solo for three turns? How is that fun for anybody?

_____________________________________________

What can be done to fix it?

1. Make Trial of Faith immune to removal or have it return all voided cards to normal if destroyed. It is already an "All my eggs in one basket" effect, it shouldn't feel suicidal to ever play it.

2. Possibly lower the cost. Trial on turn 3 would give troop based decks fewer options to overrun you, but risks becoming uncounterable/totally overpowered.

3. Lower the number of counters needed to activate to two and give the angels speed. Again, less time for the opponent to react, and it allows you to avoid the mass removal issue.

4. Remove only the cards in your hand for its effect. That allows you to set up a board position where you can weather the storm, and you still get to play the game instead of watch your opponent play solo.

Diesbudt
06-26-2013, 09:27 AM
Trial of Faith got my attention originally because it has a lot of flavor as a card (the name + art + effect work perfect together). Everyone can imagine this resolving, putting 10+ angels into play, and crushing your opponent with delight. Only problem is then I started to think about how I could use the card....

Best case scenario seems to be playing first, Diamond/Wild deck with Chlorophyllia and Adaptable Infusion Device so that you can play Test of Faith on turn four. That gives your opponent their turn 4, 5, and 6 before the angels are out, and then one more turn before you can attack for a lethal amount. So what can go wrong?

1. Extinction, Judgement, or any other mass removal on your opponents turn 7. Just concede, you lose.

2. Any card that can remove a constant (notice that Trial does not return any of the voided cards if it is destroyed? That is an issue). There haven't been many revealed yet, but effects like this are very common in Magic: The Gathering, expect them to be common in Hex as well.

3. Your opponent has anything around five power worth of troops when you resolve this.
A. Turn three Briar Legion followed by a turn four Briar Legion? You lose.
B. Fang of the Mountain God and almost any two 2-3 drop creatures? You lose.
C. Runts of the Litter and a Bucktooth Commander? You lose.
D. Wild Aura and almost any 2-3 drop creature? You lose.
E. A turn 1-3 orc and a Zoltog on turn 4? You lose.
(I could keep going for a long time with this list, but point made)

But wait, what if we play a control deck and resolve our own Judgement before hand wiping the board? Maybe even play some life gain to put us above 20 life before resolving Trial of Faith? Well, then Trial just became a "Win-more" card. If you already have a dominant board position that is going to win the game, then this really isn't helping you.

All that said, my biggest issue with this card: It makes you set aside all of your cards and stop playing the game for three turns. Why would CZE ever want to encourage its players to stop playing Hex and just watch their opponent play the game solo for three turns? How is that fun for anybody?

_____________________________________________

What can be done to fix it?

1. Make Trial of Faith immune to removal or have it return all voided cards to normal if destroyed. It is already an "All my eggs in one basket" effect, it shouldn't feel suicidal to ever play it.

2. Possibly lower the cost. Trial on turn 3 would give troop based decks fewer options to overrun you, but risks becoming uncounterable/totally overpowered.

3. Lower the number of counters needed to activate to two and give the angels speed. Again, less time for the opponent to react, and it allows you to avoid the mass removal issue.

4. Remove only the cards in your hand for its effect. That allows you to set up a board position where you can weather the storm, and you still get to play the game instead of watch your opponent play solo.

It is def. not the worst TCG card ever. I remember one card in the first Pokémon set when I was young that I couldn't imagine anyone ever using. (Don't remember what it was though)

However I see some possibilities for this card. Yes they are few. And yes more on the PvE side of the game. But still, it isn't the worst.

Now to comment on the card: I think it is perfectly fine quite honestly. Sure there is a lot of drawbacks, however if you were to buff it/help it even slightly, then it could potentially become over the top powerful.

Vorpal
06-26-2013, 09:33 AM
It looks like a superbly thematic card, that is unrealiable (gimmicky?). I don't expect it to see a lot of play in competitive PvP decks (though I can definitely see it being extremely useful in pve) though it might well win games, it won't be reliable.

In a way it reminds me of the one turn kill decks in Might and Magic, Duel of Champions. These decks stall and play no creatures, just delaying/stalling cards, while the opponent furiously beats away at their life as fast as they can. Then, they drop their pumped up super monster with charge and haste and double attack and what not and win in one turn. Or they die before they get there.

Even if such games do not involve a lot of interaction, they are generally over pretty quickly.

Trial of Faith is basically a : can my opponent rip away 20 life in 3 turns while I do nothing?

If yes, then you lose. If no, then you have a pretty good chance of winning (barring mass extinction, for example)

KaosSoul
06-26-2013, 09:35 AM
Trial of Faith is Quite Good in Pve, you need to think a bit outside the Box =p, if you play Extinction your self, with its equips, you got 2 turns no creatures then your 3rd turns comes and you drops your angels. Yes its an Insane Gambit but Worst? nah its bad kinda, we will see Professional PVP Deck with it? yes because alot of player like the chalenge of making seemingly bad card become great

Avaian
06-26-2013, 09:37 AM
Trial of Faith (http://www.hex-datamine.com/card.php?c=182)

It is an interesting card in my opinion, but not a great card.

I can see it in a diamond/sapphire control deck, with Wyatt the Sapper (http://www.hex-datamine.com/card.php?c=245) as your champion.

We also don't know if there are any cards that increase the amount of tokens added or if there will be cards that can add faith counters.

Diesbudt
06-26-2013, 09:39 AM
It looks like a superbly thematic card, that is unrealiable (gimmicky?). I don't expect it to see a lot of play in competitive PvP decks (though I can definitely see it being extremely useful in pve) though it might well win games, it won't be reliable.

In a way it reminds me of the one turn kill decks in Might and Magic, Duel of Champions. These decks stall and play no creatures, just delaying/stalling cards, while the opponent furiously beats away at their life as fast as they can. Then, they drop their pumped up super monster with charge and haste and double attack and what not and win in one turn. Or they die before they get there.

Even if such games do not involve a lot of interaction, they are generally over pretty quickly.

Trial of Faith is basically a : can my opponent rip away 20 life in 3 turns while I do nothing?

If yes, then you lose. If no, then you have a pretty good chance of winning (barring mass extinction, for example)

Exactly. And in a raid you could have your 2 partners hold onto any quick actions to help protect your behind during your "cocoon" process.

Diesbudt
06-26-2013, 09:41 AM
Trial of Faith (http://www.hex-datamine.com/card.php?c=182)

It is an interesting card in my opinion, but not a great card.

I can see it in a diamond/sapphire control deck, with Wyatt the Sapper (http://www.hex-datamine.com/card.php?c=245) as your champion.

We also don't know if there are any cards that increase the amount of tokens added or if there will be cards that can add faith counters.

It also doesn't prevent you from drawing cards and playing cards like the 2nd stage of 3 of AA. So the card you draw each turn can help protect you. Add in the champion you showed, possible to stay protected in that time frame.

Is it a great card? No. But it isn't so bad it won't see play. Just require certain decks.

Qorsair
06-26-2013, 09:46 AM
Obviously, as many people have mentioned, this is more of a PVE card that will very rarely see play in PVP.
In PVE, I could see this being used in the Arena PVE dungeon, where they said the rewards will be greater for more dramatic victories.

Unhurtable
06-26-2013, 10:06 AM
This card will not be played on with only 20 life in mind. Soothing Breezes + other cards will help you buff your life up before you begin. Imagine the following scenario.
Turn 1 : Diamond + Adamantian Scrivener
Turn 2 : Diamond + Soothing Breeze
Turn 3 : Diamond + a 2-3 cost Diamond Troop
Turn 4 : Diamond + Soothing Breeze + a 2 cost Diamond Troop
Turn 5 : Diamond + Trial of Faith

Now this might be a lucky hand (except if your entire deck consists of only soothing breeze, 1-3 costing Diamond Troops and 4 Trial of Faiths) but you are still sitting somewhere between 25-35 Life unless your opponent manages to assassinate 3 of your troops with spells or simply having stronger units. Dealing 15 damage to an opponent in 3 turns is certainly very possible after a couple of turns in the game, but dealing 15 damage to an opponent in the 5 first turns with him having 3 blockers? A bit harder. You might even sacrifice troops in blocking without knowing the trial of faith is coming.

Would I ever play this competitively? Don't think so, since there will most likely be Constant-destroying spells that will ruin the entire plan. If there aren't I would still be hesistant to play it since a good opponent with a good deck could deal 35 damage in 3 turns. Even in a good scenario (lets say you survive with 10 life) they have still built their resources and might have champion-damaging cards still in their deck.

Of course this is all speculation. There could be cards that make this card perfectly playable (such as walls that give life on entering the battlefield). Another strategy could be to simply do a grand assault before playing this card in order to thin out the enemys possibility of dealing heavy damage the next coming turns.

Mugaaz
06-26-2013, 10:13 AM
Not every card is meant for constructed tournament play by spikes. Some cards are designed for less competitive games, casual play, specific demographics, etc. If you look at other TCGs, they all have plenty of very popular, and sometimes very expensive cards that have seen little or no competitive play. There is nothing wrong with that. Different strokes.

Diesbudt
06-26-2013, 10:15 AM
Not every card is meant for constructed tournament play by spikes. Some cards are designed for less competitive games, casual play, specific demographics, etc. If you look at other TCGs, they all have plenty of very popular, and sometimes very expensive cards that have seen little or no competitive play. There is nothing wrong with that. Different strokes.

Just like Exodia was in Yugioh during Set 1. It was not smart to try and win by exodia in set 1, as there was nothing to help it along. Come set 3+ there was more draw power and searching and etc. that exodia was now a possible win possibility.

Rycajo
06-26-2013, 10:15 AM
It also doesn't prevent you from drawing cards and playing cards like the 2nd stage of 3 of AA. So the card you draw each turn can help protect you. Add in the champion you showed, possible to stay protected in that time frame.

Is it a great card? No. But it isn't so bad it won't see play. Just require certain decks.

The ability to draw and still play while this is out shouldn't go unnoticed. Sure, since everything you had was voided, you are relying on top decking something to help, but it is still there. Especially if you have done a little Peeking before playing Trial of Faith.

Also of note: we haven't seen any board wipes that are quick actions. Since you get the angels at the start of your turn, you would get at least one turn with the legion of angels. Better make it count.

Madican
06-26-2013, 10:20 AM
Think of it less as letting the opponent play solo and more as you charging up for a fatal blow. If they can take you down beforehand then good on them, if they fail though they're going to get hit with a brutal counterattack.

Vorpal
06-26-2013, 10:27 AM
The ability to draw and still play while this is out shouldn't go unnoticed. Sure, since everything you had was voided, you are relying on top decking something to help, but it is still there. Especially if you have done a little Peeking before playing Trial of Faith.

Also of note: we haven't seen any board wipes that are quick actions. Since you get the angels at the start of your turn, you would get at least one turn with the legion of angels. Better make it count.

It would be hilarious if the angels finally arrived in a blaze of glory and trumpets, but they were exhausted and had to rest for a bit first.

Diesbudt
06-26-2013, 10:28 AM
Think of it less as letting the opponent play solo and more as you charging up for a fatal blow. If they can take you down beforehand then good on them, if they fail though they're going to get hit with a brutal counterattack.

Better yet! Use MMO terms.

Kill him before his enrage timer is up!

Rycajo
06-26-2013, 10:47 AM
It would be hilarious if the angels finally arrived in a blaze of glory and trumpets, but they were exhausted and had to rest for a bit first.

I hadn't even thought about the troop trauma or whatever they call it. The Angels coming in exhausted or unable to act makes the card much, much worse.

Vorpal
06-26-2013, 10:50 AM
I'm going to assume angels have haste or quickness or whatever the equivalent is that makes them not start out unable to act.

ramseytheory
06-26-2013, 11:06 AM
I'm going to assume angels have haste or quickness or whatever the equivalent is that makes them not start out unable to act.

Actually they don't (http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/cards&search=angel), so they're probably going to have summoning sickness.

funktion
06-26-2013, 11:16 AM
At some point, there's going to be some really stupid combo interaction with this card... and then you'll be singing a completely different toon.

Vorpal
06-26-2013, 11:41 AM
Actually they don't (http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/cards&search=angel), so they're probably going to have summoning sickness.

Hahaha, that's hilarious!

In that case this card is good as dead in PvP. Who is going to roll around with a deck that draws neither constant removal nor creature removal in 8 turns? No one, that's who.

All they have to do is void your trial of faith in the 3 turns it's taking to go off or hold onto an exctinction even to play while all your glorious heavenly host is laying on their backs dizzy from the summoning sickness.

This card will still be good in pve though, particularly as the equipment for it remedies two of the biggest problems of the card.

HyenaNipples
06-26-2013, 11:47 AM
Winning with Trial of Faith is at least worthy of massive props.

Avedecus
06-26-2013, 12:02 PM
Actually they don't (http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/cards&search=angel), so they're probably going to have summoning sickness.

IIRC, that was the Angel previewed with the Angel Mercenary (that produces Angels). It's entirely possible that the Trial Angels won't be exhausted.

SomeoneRandom
06-26-2013, 12:23 PM
They all use the same token, "Angel" I am 99% sure they will not be able to attack the turn you get them. However I think it's a lot easier to go off than people think and even a trial with just a couple cards can win you the game. I like it as well because its a zombie-plauge immune way to win despite them also running extinction. I think it will see PvE play and the occasional pvp play. I forgot resources aren't in play so you still can draw answers or help in the turns ahead and cast them.

Syeblaze
06-26-2013, 12:27 PM
Welp, that depends on when cards become unsick. Since they come in at the beginning of the turn, your upkeep happens after. By most rules, they would be ready to go, since sickness is cleared at upkeep. This means the turn its pops, you win unless they have a bunch of chump blocks with fpying. Either way, it puts you in a good position. I'd say you use it during a stalemate when the board is mostly empty

Aradon
06-26-2013, 12:31 PM
Welp, that depends on when cards become unsick. Since they come in at the beginning of the turn, your upkeep happens after. By most rules, they would be ready to go, since sickness is cleared at upkeep. This means the turn its pops, you win unless they have a bunch of chump blocks with fpying. Either way, it puts you in a good position. I'd say you use it during a stalemate when the board is mostly empty

This is incorrect by MtG rules. I dunno if WoWTCG worked differently, but the MtG rule is that 'Creatures have summoning sickness unless they have been continuously controlled by you since the start of your turn.'

It looks to me like you do need to wait a turn before you can kill them with your army.

Syeblaze
06-26-2013, 12:44 PM
This is incorrect by MtG rules. I dunno if WoWTCG worked differently, but the MtG rule is that 'Creatures have summoning sickness unless they have been continuously controlled by you since the start of your turn.'

It looks to me like you do need to wait a turn before you can kill them with your army.

Huh. Learn something new everyday. Seems kinda inconsistent to me. If you ready your troops and resources during upkeep and untap steps, that's when I would expect the sickness to go away. My idea may yet stand, of course, if hex does something different

Aradon
06-26-2013, 01:01 PM
Things ready during the untap step. However, I've seen no mention of an Untap step in this game. They use 'At the start of the turn,' so I dunno if they've merged untap and upkeep together.

Syeblaze
06-26-2013, 01:13 PM
So, again, unclear. I love the flavor of the card, so it would be fitting the flavor if they could act.

Delrusant
06-26-2013, 01:37 PM
Well it is a trial of faith in yourself, your luck of something, if you win the trial you should be ahead otherwise you were not faithfull enough. It is a gambling card, I would see it as the PvP equivalent of the merc Mephistoleus: complete randomness.

You draw during the wait can be put in play : relies also on lucj to get good draw after wipe.


It could be also used in an "highlander" setting where constant removal would belower and draw after trial of faith would be relatively better (as you have less control with only one card of each)

wayne
06-26-2013, 06:17 PM
Changing this card in the way OP has suggested would make it really strong in raid or other team modes.

Grissnap
06-26-2013, 06:39 PM
Things ready during the untap step. However, I've seen no mention of an Untap step in this game. They use 'At the start of the turn,' so I dunno if they've merged untap and upkeep together.

In WoW TCG, "At the start of the turn," is a trigger that, oddly enough, triggers when a players turn begins. Just like MTG, a card needs to have been continuously controlled by you since the start of your turn in order to attack. Unfortunately for these Angels, the Trial of Faith works like this: [Start of the Turn]-> Trial of Faith effect goes on the chain -> Destroy Trial of Faith, Put Angels into Play

Unfortunately, as you can see, the Start of the Turn has already passed by the time the Angels have entered play. Start of the Turn its not an ongoing period of time, its a single point in time that needs to have occured in order for the card to trigger. Since the Angels were not in play at the start of the turn, they are unable to attack.

CZE will not do anything differently. It's pretty clear that the Angels will not be able to attack the turn they come into play.

In PvP terms, I have a very low opinion of this card. Not the worst TCG card ever, I would say that honor goes to War Party Hitching Post (non-loot version, WoW TCG), but pretty bad. I would say its the equivalent of playing Dan in Street Fighter.

KaosSoul
06-26-2013, 08:25 PM
so if you can put an constant or an instant that give Speed to all creature on the last turn your all good for a Flying Madness Bloodbath

Avedecus
06-26-2013, 08:28 PM
Or they just won't come into play exhausted because CZE might decide they don't want them to.

Aradon
06-26-2013, 08:36 PM
Being exhausted or not is a completely separate issue. Exhausted means it's been tapped, and therefore can't do things that require tapping (or block). They'll come in with summoning sickness, or 'troop trauma' in Hex, which means they'll be untapped, and can block, but they won't be able to attack or activate abilities with a tap symbol on them. And is CZE wants to allow these guys to swing immediately, they'll have it clearly say that the angels gain speed, or they'll amend the angel token to have speed on it.

Erep
06-26-2013, 08:53 PM
Resolve the card under Eye of Creation, that way you can have cards resolve after it, and maintain board presence. At least that is some effective way to play it, however unlikely it may be to work.

But there are cards in other TCGs that are worse.

Quasari
06-26-2013, 08:55 PM
By itself the card looks pretty bad, I say there may be a number of cards that might make it a nice combo card, but for right now with what we know I doubt it'll see any competitive constructed and be a very uncommon pick in a deck for limited. Might be fun in PvE.


I would say its the equivalent of playing Dan in Street Fighter.

Dan can still be competitive at least(at least in SFIV, hes a joke in all the other games). He's not the 100% best pick, but he's nothing to sneeze at, SFIV is pretty well balanced, the tiers aren't that far apart. Plus you get cool videos like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncsHQ_psTEg)

Grissnap
06-26-2013, 09:32 PM
By itself the card looks pretty bad, I say there may be a number of cards that might make it a nice combo card, but for right now with what we know I doubt it'll see any competitive constructed and be a very uncommon pick in a deck for limited. Might be fun in PvE.

Dan can still be competitive at least(at least in SFIV, hes a joke in all the other games). He's not the 100% best pick, but he's nothing to sneeze at, SFIV is pretty well balanced, the tiers aren't that far apart. Plus you get cool videos like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncsHQ_psTEg)

See, perfect metaphor. ;)

Unhurtable
06-27-2013, 12:39 AM
so if you can put an constant or an instant that give Speed to all creature on the last turn your all good for a Flying Madness Bloodbath

Last turn before playing Trial of Last turn after?
Before : Its a contant you control, ergo, it is voided by Trial of Faith as far as we know.
After : It would have to cost 2, since you will be able to draw 3 cards before the angels arrive.

SomeoneRandom
06-27-2013, 12:57 AM
Last turn before playing Trial of Last turn after?
Before : Its a contant you control, ergo, it is voided by Trial of Faith as far as we know.
After : It would have to cost 2, since you will be able to draw 3 cards before the angels arrive.

Resources don't get removed by Trial, so you will have all the resources you had when you cast it.

Grissnap
06-27-2013, 12:59 AM
Why would it have to cost 2? You will have 5 resources minimum available.
Edit: Ahhh, okay, thats what his assumption was.

But yes a Lord Alexander, the Courageous would work. (Or Lord Alexander in the GY with a Blessing the Fallen would work too).

Unhurtable
06-27-2013, 01:18 AM
Resources don't get removed by Trial, so you will have all the resources you had when you cast it.

RIGHT..... Once the resource cards are played they are no longer considered cards.... Forgot about that, still too stuck on MTG thinking.

My impression of this card just improved significantly. I can actually see this card being played now, as you can draw stuff like Blinding Light or other high-cost troops during the buildup time. Its still a gamble though, but a much safer gamble.

Aradon
06-27-2013, 09:59 AM
It'd be a lot easier to set up with Peek. You could tell if you're about to draw into anything that'll stabilize you, like Extinction or Judgement, and if it's too dangerous, just not cast it. That's pretty much all I got, though :P

Alequel
06-27-2013, 10:54 AM
Just one thing I have realized about the card it does not remove your mana base because unlike magic in hex you dont actually have land/source cards that would be exiled with this effect, so whatever else you draw after playing this enchantment you are still able to cast it. Yes it is a very risky move but it is not as terrible as you think it is imo. It would have been if it removed your mana sources as well though.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 11:02 AM
Just one thing I have realized about the card it does not remove your mana base because unlike magic in hex you dont actually have land/source cards that would be exiled with this effect, so whatever else you draw after playing this enchantment you are still able to cast it. Yes it is a very risky move but it is not as terrible as you think it is imo. It would have been if it removed your mana sources as well though.

If it removed the mana sources, this would be literally a last ditch effort or final move aka a Trial by faith! :D

Rtsands45
06-27-2013, 11:26 AM
I have seen worse cards in TCGs. Sorrows path in mtg most likely the most useless card ever.

Xintia
06-27-2013, 11:36 AM
See this is precisely the kind of card that I would be crazy enough to try and make work in a competitive constructed format... which is why I never did very well in those formats in Magic. Of course, when you can't afford to buy the chase rares in the "best" decks, you make due with the oddballs. :p