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zachawry
06-27-2013, 03:52 AM
I really, really want to like Hex. And, I can't wait until it comes out.

However, the cute bunny rabbits really kind of bug me. In fact, I could never play those cards. Maybe I'm being irrational, maybe I'm being stupid. But I just don't see the reason for the whole sub-theme that looks like it was designed for a six-year-old girl. Most of the other cards are decidedly adult in nature and motif.

So is the whole Hello Kitty aesthetic going to be a big part of the game? Because if so I can just write it off now and not waste any more time slobbering over (the non-Hello-Kitty-parts of) it.

(Again, totally personal preference. I understand that there are adults out there who like the whole 6-year-old girl thing. I don't understand them, but I understand they exist, and if Cryptozoic wants to pursue bunny rabbits because they think it will make them more money, that is their right.)

verozo
06-27-2013, 04:00 AM
I don't really find the rabbits that cute, to the point of comparison with Hello Kitty.

Justinkp
06-27-2013, 04:00 AM
I didn't particularly like them either until I saw they were one of the most ruthless and aggressive races, very much what most would consider "evil". This changes the whole dynamic and makes it interesting-I suspected them to be the nice, friendly race but the fact that they are so warlike the other races actually forced them underground turns the stereotype on its head-the addition of the samurai/Japanese culture theme is kind of cool too (if not original).

They still aren't my first choice to make a deck around (the fast agro decks they seem to fit best in don't appeal much to me anyway) but I don't mind them at all now and find their culture interesting.

Justin

Redbeastmage
06-27-2013, 04:20 AM
Comparing the Shin'Hare to Hello Kitty is pretty ignorant, unless I missed the memo where Hello Kitty characters have a swarm mentality where individual life is meaningless and should be sacrificed for the greater good, where the greater good is the conquering and subjuction of every surface dwelling race.

Have you looked at the Blood Shin'Hare cards?
http://www.hex-datamine.com/card.php?c=10
http://www.hex-datamine.com/card.php?c=234

Maybe I just need to go to more extreme San'rio stores if I can get stuff like that.

mainstager
06-27-2013, 04:24 AM
Can't tell if troll...

zachawry
06-27-2013, 04:41 AM
Not a troll! I live in Japan, and the whole country seems to think it's perfectly normal for adults to plaster their cars in Hello-Kitty-ish cute girls stuff. This drives me crazy, and I'm perfectly willing to admit that it's just my own neurosis.

But look at the art for Runts of the Litter, Battle Hopper, or, my god this awful, Ritualist of the Spring Litter.

How can anyone think this is something desirable for a real TCG that can compete with MTG or SolForge? It just boggles my mind, especially because some of the other art direction is really great.

I guess the answer is that it is just me. Maybe I'll just specialize in crafting decks that kill bunny rabbits, even if it loses to all non-bunny decks.

zachawry
06-27-2013, 04:44 AM
Comparing the Shin'Hare to Hello Kitty is pretty ignorant, unless I missed the memo where Hello Kitty characters have a swarm mentality where individual life is meaningless and should be sacrificed for the greater good, where the greater good is the conquering and subjuction of every surface dwelling race.

But what is the compelling reason to depict this race as bunny rabbits, out of all the possibilities? Talk about a great opportunity for some fantastic, compelling flavor that was completely wasted because someone on the art team has atrocious taste, or wanted to make cards for their little daughter, or who knows....

Chiany
06-27-2013, 04:50 AM
I think you can compare the Shin'Hare more with the Happy Tree Friends, then with Hello Kitty ;)

jai151
06-27-2013, 04:55 AM
But what is the compelling reason to depict this race as bunny rabbits, out of all the possibilities? Talk about a great opportunity for some fantastic, compelling flavor that was completely wasted because someone on the art team has atrocious taste, or wanted to make cards for their little daughter, or who knows....

Dude, have you even read the lore?

What do bunny rabbits do? That's right, mate like crazy and pop out kids. That's the whole point of the race, they have an entire caste of society (the concubunnies) whose job it is to do nothing but screw and pop out soldiers. The whole fun of the race is the dichotomy of the cutesy exterior and the fact that their society is about as dark as it gets.

keldrin
06-27-2013, 04:55 AM
Maybe the idea, was to take a very violent race, and try and soften it a bit with the imagery.
Or, maybe they want to push that they can make something otherwise cute, into something savage, wild, and blood thirsty.
Think Kill Bill, with bunnies.
Besides, I looked at them and started thinking watership down. Not hello kitty.
Anyways. No, doesn't bug me. But, it's not first on my list for character race either. (Subject to change after I can fully see synergy of race with classes)

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 05:07 AM
Is someone really worried about this...? I am baffled.

Remember Child's Play? Aww hes a cute dolly thingy or.... AHHHH ITS STABBING MY EYES OUT RUN FOR YOUR LIVES. A cute exterior is a perfect way for creatures to destroy as it gives a false sense of hope/cuteness.

Sonicrain
06-27-2013, 05:11 AM
google Usagi Yojimbo.

learn something today.

keldrin
06-27-2013, 05:11 AM
Is someone really worried about this...? I am baffled.

Remember Child's Play? Aww hes a cute dolly thingy or.... AHHHH ITS STABBING MY EYES OUT RUN FOR YOUR LIVES. A cute exterior is a perfect way for creatures to destroy as it gives a false sense of hope/cuteness.

Isn't set 3 supposed to be "Bride of Hello Bunny"?

Icepick
06-27-2013, 05:13 AM
Sounds to me like you have an irrational hated of either rabbits or things traditionally considered to be cute (or both!)
I don't see any Hello Kitty style in them at all. And if some of the cards are slightly goofy, it's called having a little fun. Seen the Succulent Roostersaur? How about the fact that the one of the decks in the Annual Arena centres around a giant fire-breathing squirrel? Two separate species of dog-people? The race of sheepmen? How about the mushroom people?
The Shin'hare fit the Hex world pretty perfectly, so I wouldn't let the fact that you perceive some of the cards as being too cute bother you that much. And if it *does* bother you that much, just don't use them. There are plenty of other cards in the game :)

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 05:21 AM
Isn't set 3 supposed to be "Bride of Hello Bunny"?

/clap

Delrusant
06-27-2013, 05:24 AM
I would rather think there is a Monty Pithon fan than an hello kitty fan in the shin'hare designer when will they show the Caerbannog bunny card?? ^-^

And then you have The Mushwocky http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/img/cards/medium/yHDqYou.jpg (http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/card.php?c=86) and then if you really hate bunny you have the perfect card to kill them yourself.

KaosSoul
06-27-2013, 05:30 AM
so you dont mind mushroom ppl, but bunnies who are not cat are an issue? you underestimate the Rutheless Bunny and the love for bloodbath they have

zachawry
06-27-2013, 05:30 AM
Dude, have you even read the lore?

What do bunny rabbits do? That's right, mate like crazy and pop out kids. That's the whole point of the race, they have an entire caste of society (the concubunnies) whose job it is to do nothing but screw and pop out soldiers. The whole fun of the race is the dichotomy of the cutesy exterior and the fact that their society is about as dark as it gets.

I guess it makes more sense that way, at least.

And no, I haven't read the lore. Because...who cares?

Just as when I play chess I don't need to read a bogus backstory about why the white and black kingdoms hate each other, and why an ancient curse has caused the infantrymen to be able to only move forward in straight lines and only attack diagonally, while if they reach the very end of their enemy's lands they can transform into anything due to the power of the ancient special whatnot....

jai151
06-27-2013, 05:33 AM
I guess it makes more sense that way, at least.

And no, I haven't read the lore. Because...who cares?

Just as when I play chess I don't need to read a bogus backstory about why the white and black kingdoms hate each other, and why an ancient curse has caused the infantrymen to be able to only move forward in straight lines and only attack diagonally, while if they reach the very end of their enemy's lands they can transform into anything due to the power of the ancient special whatnot....

The writer in me just died a little bit there...

I can't be the only one who actually reads the flavor text and gets into the backstories of the races and world, right?

Icepick
06-27-2013, 05:33 AM
I guess it makes more sense that way, at least.

And no, I haven't read the lore. Because...who cares?

Just as when I play chess I don't need to read a bogus backstory about why the white and black kingdoms hate each other, and why an ancient curse has caused the infantrymen to be able to only move forward in straight lines and only attack diagonally, while if they reach the very end of their enemy's lands they can transform into anything due to the power of the ancient special whatnot....

Chess would be much better that way! :D
But your analogy is flawed because a big part of Hex is the PvE story driven stuff, to which the lore is very important.

Justinkp
06-27-2013, 05:38 AM
google Usagi Yojimbo.

learn something today.

This is exactly what I was thinking of when I mentioned the samurai theme not being completely original.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 05:41 AM
I guess it makes more sense that way, at least.

And no, I haven't read the lore. Because...who cares?

Just as when I play chess I don't need to read a bogus backstory about why the white and black kingdoms hate each other, and why an ancient curse has caused the infantrymen to be able to only move forward in straight lines and only attack diagonally, while if they reach the very end of their enemy's lands they can transform into anything due to the power of the ancient special whatnot....

TCG-RPG. Story matters.

/end post

Hatts
06-27-2013, 05:42 AM
And no, I haven't read the lore. Because...who cares?


Because the lore drives the artwork and mechanics of the cards? Without it we would just have boring generic fantasy tropes. I like that they are turning the cute bunny trope on it's head.

If you don't care about the lore, why do you care about the artwork? It's just another thing to ignore, you shouldn't care what the chess pieces look like to steal your example.

zachawry
06-27-2013, 05:48 AM
The writer in me just died a little bit there...

I can't be the only one who actually reads the flavor text and gets into the backstories of the races and world, right?

I love good flavortext and good art. To me they are what makes the game come alive, what makes you form an emotional attachment to it. And, even though most won't have such a visceral dislike of the cute bunnies as I do, I do bet that the bunnies end up getting in the way of that emotional attachment for a lot of people. Because, high fantasy is high fantasy, and bunnies are bunnies, and they don't really mix. The bunnies just sort of kill the mood for me.

And, I don't read the backstory precisely because I do love fantasy. Have my entire life, including adulthood. But to me the backstories of these games just don't cut it as decent fantasy. Again, personal preference....

Avaian
06-27-2013, 05:53 AM
Shin'hare Design discussion : (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24017)

I suggest giving that a read, it may hit several of your points, or change your thoughts on why they look like they do.

Verdant
06-27-2013, 05:56 AM
Shin'hare are far from cute both in lore and in art. Especially when it comes to their Emperor.

MrSeriousBsns
06-27-2013, 06:06 AM
I guess the answer is that it is just me. Maybe I'll just specialize in crafting decks that kill bunny rabbits, even if it loses to all non-bunny decks.

http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/img/cards/small/cFGYCRt.jpg (http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/card.php?c=22) with the boot equipment in PvE seems right up your alley.

Lafoote
06-27-2013, 06:09 AM
But what is the compelling reason to depict this race as bunny rabbits, out of all the possibilities? Talk about a great opportunity for some fantastic, compelling flavor that was completely wasted because someone on the art team has atrocious taste, or wanted to make cards for their little daughter, or who knows....

If we simply MUST justify the shin'hare...
Rabbits reproduce at an alarming rate. In nature it works out because they are FOOD. Given opposable thumbs and martial weaponry, they would not only cease being food, but also require space for generations of new rabbits. That's as good a recipe for aggressive expansionism as has ever been made.

DjiN
06-27-2013, 06:11 AM
I like dem bunnies :)

Grissnap
06-27-2013, 06:17 AM
Modern day fighting bunnies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_Meow

ossuary
06-27-2013, 06:25 AM
What makes the Shin'Hare so cool is that 1) they are explained in a way that makes sense, and 2) the fact that they made evil bunnies make sense is HILARIOUS. :)

I wrote a blog post a while ago about how the lore makes the game better, if anyone cares. ;) (link in my sig)

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 06:31 AM
Ok I admit. I am offended by the bunnies. I want killer unicorns. :mad:

Icepick
06-27-2013, 06:59 AM
Ok I admit. I am offended by the bunnies. I want killer unicorns. :mad:

Unicorns are already in the game :P http://www.hex-datamine.com/card.php?c=238

Rapkannibale
06-27-2013, 07:08 AM
Art is very subjective so you have the right to not like it.

Personally I am glad that CZE decided to do something new instead if just rehashing all the regular fantasy tropes. Also I'm not that bothered by art. As long as the cards are well drawn and feel like they all belong to the game I am fine. Game mechanics > art for me.

NoahBuddy
06-27-2013, 07:22 AM
i understand some might not like the game being overly cute. i don't think the shin'hare do this.
but when you have a goat race that is summed up like this.


Prominence in woolvir society is based on their martial abilities. Baa’serkers are the fiercest warriors amongst their kind, using fits of rage to fuel their chaotic fighting style. Baa’xers are expert grapplers, keeping their opponents locked down until exhaustion sets in, then pummeling them mercilessly with their fists.

Woolvir females are as fierce as the males, preferring to choke and subdue their adversaries with a brutal form of combat they call jujits’ewe.

this is going too far. Baa'serkers, Baa'xters' and jujits'ewe. Really, CZE, really?
i just threw up in my mouth a little.

the goat race is fine. the names are garbage.

Syeblaze
06-27-2013, 07:26 AM
Honestly, I was a little bit worried about the Shin'Hare myself, when my friend first pointed me to the game. Then I read the lore. Then I wanted to play the bunnies, because they are ruthless, evil, and hilarious. There is nothing better than making babies on the battlefield, and then making those babies fight!

If it bothers you, read the lore. It makes a lot more sense afterwards. I generally don't care about the lore of these kinds of things out side of generalizations (MTG was a little crazy for my tastes), but Hex lore has made me laugh out loud a few times. Its enjoyable, very.

tautologico
06-27-2013, 07:28 AM
Yeah to be honest I'm not crazy about the flavor in HEX, in general. It's personal taste, really. It seems there's a heavy influence from Warcraft art and lore (which is, of course, quite understandable), and so we get a more "jokey" tone in our fantasy. Some people may like it, some people won't.

I don't find evil bunnies really interesting, just inverting an expectation is not a big deal in my book. And the art direction, in general, is not to my tastes. It's not a serious problem, if the game is good the flavor won't be a dealbreaker.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 07:31 AM
Yeah to be honest I'm not crazy about the flavor in HEX, in general. It's personal taste, really. It seems there's a heavy influence from Warcraft art and lore (which is, of course, quite understandable), and so we get a more "jokey" tone in our fantasy. Some people may like it, some people won't.

I don't find evil bunnies really interesting, just inverting an expectation is not a big deal in my book. And the art direction, in general, is not to my tastes. It's not a serious problem, if the game is good the flavor won't be a dealbreaker.

Just because one "universe" doesn't follow the views you have installed in your mindset as a good fantasy place does not mean it is "more jokey".

Because if parallel universes exist, and you traveled to them. Some Earth Rabbits evolved into humanoid type creatures and not us, and are quite like those cards. So maybe there is more reality in this card game than 1 thinks.

Artwork is subjective though. Everyone has different tastes. Cannot please everyone.

tautologico
06-27-2013, 07:32 AM
this is going too far. Baa'serkers, Baa'xters' and jujits'ewe. Really, CZE, really?
i just threw up in my mouth a little.

the goat race is fine. the names are garbage.

Yikes, when I posted about not being crazy about the flavor I hadn't even seen this post yet. This is what I said about having a more humorous fantasy, sometimes it gets cheesy, but some people may like it.

Kami
06-27-2013, 07:32 AM
As long as they give the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch to the human race, the evil bunnies shouldn't bee to much of a problem. :)

Seriously speaking though, I prefer the more Pratchett-esque style of fantasy they're going for here. It does allow for more creative freedom since you don't have to take everything as seriously.

Besides, it gives great contrast for when things do get dark and gloomy. Has anyone read Brian Jacques' Redwall series?

tautologico
06-27-2013, 07:35 AM
Just because one "universe" doesn't follow the views you have installed in your mindset as a good fantasy place does not mean it is "more jokey".

Because if parallel universes exist, and you traveled to them. Some Earth Rabbits evolved into humanoid type creatures and not us, and are quite like those cards. So maybe there is more reality in this card game than 1 thinks.

As I said, it's me, these are my tastes. It's not that I don't like fantasy and humor (I like Terry Pratchett, by the way), it's my instinctive, gut reaction to the whole thing (including art direction and etc). I don't think you (or anyone else) can say my preferences are "wrong", anymore than I can say people who like the flavor in HEX are wrong. I'm not saying that now and I didn't say it before.

ZeroCool
06-27-2013, 07:37 AM
If that's your only compliant, I think you're really going to enjoy Hex.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 07:38 AM
As I said, it's me, these are my tastes. It's not that I don't like fantasy and humor (I like Terry Pratchett, by the way), it's my instinctive, gut reaction to the whole thing (including art direction and etc). I don't think you (or anyone else) can say my preferences are "wrong", anymore than I can say people who like the flavor in HEX are wrong. I'm not saying that now and I didn't say it before.

And I never said you were wrong either (and edited the artwork is very subjective, so can't comment there). Just you really can't call it "jokey" as that is used as a degrading term, when that can be said for some of the more horror fantasy, since something like that may not be as interesting.

Same as warcraft is in no way jokey. Sure they throw easter eggs EVERYWHERE. And sure the graphics are brighter colors. However I think that is what makes it appeal and makes it feel more fantasy like than realistic graphics.

jai151
06-27-2013, 07:52 AM
To note, the Woolvir are sheep people, not goats.

KJ_TO
06-27-2013, 08:04 AM
The answer is you probably aren't the only one that is bothered but you seem to be in the minority of people as most people posting are not bothered or are able to look past the fact that not everything will meet a single person's preferences.

I appreciate a fantasy world that isn't only made for a bunch of guys.... My daughter likes the bunnies but not enough that she didn't make a 31/31 Mushwokey out of their corpses....

Vorpal
06-27-2013, 08:04 AM
The humans, elves, and coyotle are far more hello kitty than the shin-hare.

None of them are really hello kitty at all, but if you were to rank the infinitesimal similarities between them and hello kitty, the shin hare, with their brutal tactics, ambition to conquer the whole world, adherence to blood magic and sacrifices, and utter disregard for loss of life, wouldn't even be in the top 3 races closest to hello kitty.

Basically, the only kind of person who thinks the shin-hare are too hello kitty probably thinks books like watership down are too hello kitty.

Atomzed
06-27-2013, 08:19 AM
i understand some might not like the game being overly cute. i don't think the shin'hare do this.
but when you have a goat race that is summed up like this.

this is going too far. Baa'serkers, Baa'xters' and jujits'ewe. Really, CZE, really?
i just threw up in my mouth a little.

the goat race is fine. the names are garbage.

I personally love the names! A parody kind of humor. And because they are not the main races, I'm fine with CZE having more artistic leeway.

As someone has said, different people have different taste. A person's mead may be someone's else poison.

Vomitlord
06-27-2013, 08:21 AM
I would understand a complaint about yet more vampires, elves and zombies (I love them all by the way) more than one about bunnies.

HyenaNipples
06-27-2013, 08:31 AM
Not a troll! I live in Japan, and the whole country seems to think it's perfectly normal for adults to plaster their cars in Hello-Kitty-ish cute girls stuff.

First, claiming to not be a troll is EXACTLY what a troll would say! Second, he then goes on to troll an entire country with a single compound sentence.

EntropyBall
06-27-2013, 08:33 AM
Just you really can't call it "jokey" as that is used as a degrading term, when that can be said for some of the more horror fantasy, since something like that may not be as interesting.

Sorry, but lore in Hex is more "jokey" than traditional fantasy. Cards like the Succulent Roostaur and the entire Woolvir name and backstory are clearly put out there to make people laugh. Personally I agree with one of the previous posters that the Wolvir Baa'serkers and Baa'xers are more lame than funny, but I have no issue with them going outside the traditional fantasy archetypes.

As far as the Shin'hare, I disagree with the OP and fully expect to see a Shin'hare with the flavortext of: "That’s the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on!"

tautologico
06-27-2013, 08:39 AM
If that's your only compliant, I think you're really going to enjoy Hex.

That's my hope, and if the game is really good I know I'll grow fonder of the lore in time. This has happened with me before, I don't think Warcraft lore is that great but I like it because I loved all of the games (even spent a good amount of time in WoW).

tautologico
06-27-2013, 08:44 AM
Just you really can't call it "jokey" as that is used as a degrading term, when that can be said for some of the more horror fantasy, since something like that may not be as interesting.

I didn't mean it as a degrading term, sorry (English not my first language and all). Just that it is more humorous than most traditional fantasy. You see people in this very thread saying they laughed reading the Shin'hare lore, and people comparing it to Terry Pratchett, so I think the idea that it is more humorous is warranted.

Vibraxus
06-27-2013, 08:47 AM
I sortof see the cute bunnies as a reference to the killer bunny of Monty Python, not Hello Kitty.

RanaDunes
06-27-2013, 08:56 AM
I almost closed the video and moved away from hex when I saw those bunnies....
And if I wasn't an MTG player and watching that this game actually play almost exactly like it, I wouldn't have pledged because of those bunnies.

Big big big turn off for me but I can't complain the game seems flawless everywhere else. Just having annoying "hello kitty" character is way more merciful than having retarded game mechanic forced on you.

The_Shatner
06-27-2013, 09:00 AM
The art style is more cartoony than Magic. I think that's all the OP is trying to say. Matter of personal opinion if you like that or not.

Icepick
06-27-2013, 09:02 AM
I have to say, I find peoples reaction to the Shin'hare very odd. I don't see why people have such a problem with the idea of a race of rabbit-people, and yet no one seems to have a problem with the race of monkeys walking around like they rule the place. Goddamn humans.

Justinkp
06-27-2013, 09:09 AM
Sorry, but lore in Hex is more "jokey" than traditional fantasy. Cards like the Succulent Roostaur and the entire Woolvir name and backstory are clearly put out there to make people laugh. Personally I agree with one of the previous posters that the Wolvir Baa'serkers and Baa'xers are more lame than funny, but I have no issue with them going outside the traditional fantasy archetypes.

As far as the Shin'hare, I disagree with the OP and fully expect to see a Shin'hare with the flavortext of: "That’s the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on!"

Definitely agree that the Woolvir stuff is a bit much for my taste and also agree about the Shin'hare.

World building is hard to do well. Hex annoys me a little because I like a lot of their ideas quite a bit but some are too far into "jokey" for me. Personally it makes it harder to take the serious stuff in the way intended despite someone stating that the opposite was true for them.

But as most people understand its all personal opinion and its impossible to please everyone. I'll just focus on the parts I like and ignore the rest as best as possible while hoping that the game evolves more towards my tastes.

hex_colin
06-27-2013, 09:24 AM
Honestly, when I first saw that there was a race of bunnies, I thought "WTF".

But, the whole race concept in genius! The whole "multiplying like bunnies" thing being used is the pursuit of world domination. Classic! Definitely a fun take on the "death by tokens" mechanics that pop up in every TCG.

Turtlewing
06-27-2013, 09:35 AM
The Shin'hare strike me as more the "monty Python rabbit" than "hello kitty".

The point of them is the juxtaposition of the cute furry appearance, with the fascist genocidists with aspirations of world domination.

It's also a similar joke to the Niblonians from Futuramma.

justfletch
06-27-2013, 09:37 AM
For me, it's all about the puns. More puns = less appealing. The Woolvir are the biggest offenders (especially the ebon-hued troop called "Baa' Baa'"). Silly cards (a la Succulent Roostasaur) don't bother me as much, especially since they are usually standalones that don't really connect with the "real" lore.

I'd prefer a more straight-faced approach, but these examples of CZE's sense of humor are pretty much in line with the company personality that was shown all thorough the Kickstarter. In other words, we knew what we were getting in to. As long as the game is good, I'll overlook the parts that don't do much for me personally.

That said, I think CZE has done a good job with making the Shin'hare an interesting race beyond the easy surface joke of "cute bunnies as enslaving killers." I think a lot of it is pretty clever, actually. Even the "Concubunny" pun made me grin.

Ju66ernaut
06-27-2013, 09:43 AM
I think the Shin'hare are a fun, smart new addition to the Hex experience. It's a very unique idea and I haven't found the cards to be super cutesy. It gives the game broader appeal if nothing else.

NoahBuddy
06-27-2013, 09:46 AM
To note, the Woolvir are sheep people, not goats.

my baa'd. sheeple then.

(maybe i'm coming around on the idea)

NoahBuddy
06-27-2013, 09:51 AM
but I have no issue with them going outside the traditional fantasy archetypes.\

I agree as an avid reader of fantasy fiction i tire of elves and dragons sometimes. it just seems that they are everywhere. and that is what makes the shin'hare cool.

tautologico
06-27-2013, 09:53 AM
Definitely agree that the Woolvir stuff is a bit much for my taste and also agree about the Shin'hare.

World building is hard to do well. Hex annoys me a little because I like a lot of their ideas quite a bit but some are too far into "jokey" for me. Personally it makes it harder to take the serious stuff in the way intended despite someone stating that the opposite was true for them.

But as most people understand its all personal opinion and its impossible to please everyone. I'll just focus on the parts I like and ignore the rest as best as possible while hoping that the game evolves more towards my tastes.

I agree with a lot of this. It's hard to take some parts seriously when other parts are openly intended to be funny. I think that's part of what turns me off of the lore.

tautologico
06-27-2013, 09:57 AM
\

I agree as an avid reader of fantasy fiction i tire of elves and dragons sometimes. it just seems that they are everywhere. and that is what makes the shin'hare cool.

Being different from the norm is certainly a plus, but by itself it doesn't make anything cool. I could make a fantasy world with a popcorn race, I bet there's no other fantasy world with such a race, but I think it would be hard to make it cool :)

Gwaer
06-27-2013, 10:07 AM
Suicide bombing popcorn people? They live out their lives as little cornlets, and then when war comes... The only weapon they have... is eachother.
Also, yes you're the only person with this problem. You're confusing japanese kawaii culture with bunnies that do blood sacrifices to dominate their planet. I lived in japan for ages, and it's nothing at all alike.

Hibbert
06-27-2013, 10:13 AM
This argument is exactly the same as the one I saw after the last WoW expansion was revealed. It boiled down to "LOL wut? pandas r for kidz". Even though the Pandarens literally started as a joke race(one of Blizzard's April Fool's Day jokes), they managed to be a very well rounded race, lore wise. They did skew towards the "jokey" side, but they still managed to have some really dark and/or serious moments too.

I'm expecting a similar duplicity from the shin'hare: a cute exterior hiding evil/vicious behavior. I'm hoping for something that turns out like a PG-13 version of South Park's Woodland Christmas Critters.

ramseytheory
06-27-2013, 10:54 AM
I love the shin'hare as a race, but I really don't like the wider tendency towards punning. The woolvir make me wince, and the concubunnies make me cringe.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 10:55 AM
Suicide bombing popcorn people? They live out their lives as little cornlets, and then when war comes... The only weapon they have... is eachother.
Also, yes you're the only person with this problem. You're confusing japanese kawaii culture with bunnies that do blood sacrifices to dominate their planet. I lived in japan for ages, and it's nothing at all alike.

I don't know... Japan did do Kamikaze piloting in WW2.

Ok. Ok that was bad. But worth it!

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 10:57 AM
This argument is exactly the same as the one I saw after the last WoW expansion was revealed. It boiled down to "LOL wut? pandas r for kidz". Even though the Pandarens literally started as a joke race(one of Blizzard's April Fool's Day jokes), they managed to be a very well rounded race, lore wise. They did skew towards the "jokey" side, but they still managed to have some really dark and/or serious moments too.

I'm expecting a similar duplicity from the shin'hare: a cute exterior hiding evil/vicious behavior. I'm hoping for something that turns out like a PG-13 version of South Park's Woodland Christmas Critters.

Joke race? The Pandarens were in some of the original Warcraft games too. So it wasn't like they were a joke for WoW. or invented just for WoW.

Which this kills me...

Walking talking cows, wolves, space goats, and so on. No those were fine. But the minute pandas were added, a lot of people started calling WoW a joke/childish game.

tautologico
06-27-2013, 10:59 AM
Joke race? The Pandarens were in some of the original Warcraft games too. So it wasn't like they were a joke for WoW. or invented just for WoW.

They were a joke initially. From the WoWwiki:



The pandaren started as a creation of the Blizzard artist Samwise Didier and an April Fool's joke, but they got a massive response from Warcraft fans. In the first BlizzCast episode launched on Jan. 10, 2008, Samwise recalled the process to the creation of the Pandaren April Fool's page: "But so we put that up in there and everyone was like “Oh my God! A PANDA RACE? That’s kind of cool!” And I’m like “Are you kidding me, really? You want to see pandas in Warcraft III or whatever?”" Soon, they were included in the Warcraft III expansion and Chris Metzen began to write them into the game lore. Due to this popularity, pandaren were rumored to be the new playable Alliance race to be introduced in the Burning Crusade expansion.
.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Pandaren#A_history_of_rumors

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 11:00 AM
They were a joke initially. From the WoWwiki:

.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Pandaren#A_history_of_rumors

Pandarens were in warcraft III. Years before WoW ever launched.

LargoLaGrande
06-27-2013, 11:08 AM
Pandarens were in warcraft III. Years before WoW ever launched.

Did you read his post at all? That's exactly what the quote from wowwiki says.

Vorpal
06-27-2013, 11:19 AM
Pandarens were in warcraft III. Years before WoW ever launched.

They were a joke in III, which as we all know, was a step backwards from the glory of Warcraft II.

That said, the occasional joke is just fine by me.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 11:22 AM
Did you read his post at all? That's exactly what the quote from wowwiki says.

Yes. As I am pretty sure Pandas were added prior to that April fools. An April fools joke that did take place however was Pandas being added to WoW (not the warcraft universe in general). I remember that joke. It also talked about turning the Warsong Gultch BG into a separate DOTA type game. I was disappointed when that was just an April fools joke. That sounded like a cool idea...

And that statement of them being added in BC is true. They originally slated Pandas for alliance and Blood Elves for horde in BC. However, they wanted something more to drive the lore of Outland through and the basis behind the burning legion and used the Draenei instead.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 11:23 AM
They were a joke in III, which as we all know, was a step backwards from the glory of Warcraft II.

That said, the occasional joke is just fine by me.

Yet talking cows are fine?

Where does one draw the line of joke and not joke? Once a bear is added?

This is what kills me with people calling the pandas a joke. Sure talking cows, and space goats, and even werewolves that can control themselves. That all makes sense. But walking talking Pandas? No that must be a joke!

keroko
06-27-2013, 11:24 AM
/laugh

mammals, in general, are terrifying. Intelligent and cruel.

shinhare are supremacists and eugenicists who are about as far from 'cute' as you get.

I guess you don't like the anthro-fur or some such. But you've got spider men too, and that's just silly because they have 10 legs?

did you know your non-neutered dog could open your throat in less than 5s if it wanted to in your sleep?

shin'hare will eat you!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1QARxTGs4A

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 11:32 AM
@Keroko Why does it have to be a non-neutered dog???

jai151
06-27-2013, 11:41 AM
Yet talking cows are fine?

Where does one draw the line of joke and not joke? Once a bear is added?

This is what kills me with people calling the pandas a joke. Sure talking cows, and space goats, and even werewolves that can control themselves. That all makes sense. But walking talking Pandas? No that must be a joke!

Um, the Pandas were quite literally a joke. They were designed as an April Fools gag for Warcraft 3.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 11:51 AM
Um, the Pandas were quite literally a joke. They were designed as an April Fools gag for Warcraft 3.

To be fair. Most of their April fools jokes. Were some of the better ideas blizzard has come out with. Would that mean the jokes are better than the non jokes, thus turning everything but the pandas into jokes because they were not as cool of an idea? Does what I typed even make sense? Because I sure as hell do not know.

jai151
06-27-2013, 11:53 AM
To be fair. Most of their April fools jokes. Were some of the better ideas blizzard has come out with. Would that mean the jokes are better than the non jokes, thus turning everything but the pandas into jokes because they were not as cool of an idea? Does what I typed even make sense? Because I sure as hell do not know.

I don't know, but I do know I would have played the hell out of the Bard hero class.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 11:54 AM
I don't know, but I do know I would have played the hell out of the Bard hero class.

Me too... again another great idea they had...

And the tinfoil hat for your character that would make them not be visible on the armory while worn... I mean they jokes were GREAT ideas. Didn't they also say a librarian class one time too? Again so would have been something I played.

Chance
06-27-2013, 12:03 PM
I love how every troll thread ends with 8 pages of pure adoration and love for hex/crypt. At first I figured it should be closed but I'd rather see this troll crushed by shin'hare fanboys. We will blot out your sun with rainbows and positive posts!

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 12:06 PM
I love how every troll thread ends with 8 pages of pure adoration and love for hex/crypt. At first I figured it should be closed but I'd rather see this troll crushed by shin'hare fanboys. We will blot out your sun with rainbows and positive posts!

I don't know about you, but to me it looks like the thread had a few pages at the end about WoW and Pandas... or maybe I am losing my mind?

jai151
06-27-2013, 12:07 PM
We will blot out your sun with rainbows and positive posts!

Then we shall fight in the multicolored shade!

...Oh, wait, damnit, I'm on the wrong side of that statement. Carry on.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 12:09 PM
Then we shall fight in the multicolored shade!

...Oh, wait, damnit, I'm on the wrong side of that statement. Carry on.

Actually a better comment is... can a rainbow really blot out the sun, when all a rainbow is, is the color spectrum from a reflection of the sun in the sky with water particles? If it blotted out the sun, the rainbows would cease to exist from the point of view of the people being "fired upon".

Vorpal
06-27-2013, 12:09 PM
Yet talking cows are fine?

Where does one draw the line of joke and not joke? Once a bear is added?

This is what kills me with people calling the pandas a joke. Sure talking cows, and space goats, and even werewolves that can control themselves. That all makes sense. But walking talking Pandas? No that must be a joke!

Talking cows are just minotaurs writ goofy.

Generally anything in established mythology is considered completley fine, and anything outside that is considered a joke. Hence, the saber toothed rabbit being HILARIOUS and SUBVERSIVE and a fire breathing dragon being ho hum.

jai151
06-27-2013, 12:10 PM
Actually a better comment is... can a rainbow really blot out the sun, when all a rainbow is, is the color spectrum from a reflection of the sun in the sky with water particles? If it blotted out the sun, the rainbows would cease to exist from the point of view of the people being "fired upon".

But then I'd be losing the 300 reference.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 12:12 PM
Talking cows are just minotaurs writ goofy.

Generally anything in established mythology is considered completley fine, and anything outside that is considered a joke. Hence, the saber toothed rabbit being HILARIOUS and SUBVERSIVE and a fire breathing dragon being ho hum.

Are you versed in Chinese mythology? I am not, just asking. But it wouldn't be surprising if I looked hard enough I could find a few mythological creatures of walking talking pandas. I mean one of them is about some monkey - man on a journey that ended up being the influence of Dragonball Z.

Most mythology us Western Global people are exposed to is European. Or more Egyptian/Greek/Roman. So of course we overlook the nice Chinese mythology.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 12:13 PM
But then I'd be losing the 300 reference.

You can change it to:

This is Hex!

then proceed to kick him down a hole with ravenous bunnies waiting to devour.

snarvid
06-27-2013, 01:00 PM
As someone whose parents at one point thought the same as the OP did when selecting a video to entertain the kids, I can only say:

Watership Down

Icepick
06-27-2013, 01:31 PM
The bottom line is, if someone doesn't like the Shin'hare it doesn't really matter. There are plenty of other races to choose from, all of which will eventually get enough cards to make entire decks themed around that race. It's a shame if you dislike them that strongly, but given all the other stuff in the Hex universe it's a big of a stretch to say that the Shin'hare detracts from it in any way.

Diesbudt
06-27-2013, 01:44 PM
The bottom line is, if someone doesn't like the Shin'hare it doesn't really matter. There are plenty of other races to choose from, all of which will eventually get enough cards to make entire decks themed around that race. It's a shame if you dislike them that strongly, but given all the other stuff in the Hex universe it's a big of a stretch to say that the Shin'hare detracts from it in any way.

To be fair I lost lots of sleep as a child because of the chucky doll in Child's Play.

Maybe they just got too scary for some people and now cant look at real bunnies the same way again?

Slish
06-27-2013, 01:53 PM
I agree with both 'sides' here. OP is a bit overexaggerating. The shin'are are pretty ruthless and agressive. So to compare it to Hello Kitty is a bit extreme. But on the other side he is right. WHY THE HELL choose bunny's as a serious race...

I never really liked it either. Its weird. Which is what Cryptozoic tried to achieve I guess..
But Im not that disgusted by it as the OP.

Still, me personally would have liked it more to let it just stay with the more classic races and some additions like the necrotic and vennen is nice. The coyotle are a bit weird too... But less bad than the bunnies.

facade
06-27-2013, 02:14 PM
Funny story related to the OP about bias in regards to the lore:

One of my friends has an interesting (i.e. inflexible) moral code in that he has very clear lines about what he deems acceptable. Even though he loves playing Magic, his moral code prevents him from using black mana. Necromancy, ritual sacrifice, pacts with demons... he will have none of it. He even turns multiplayer games into personal crusades as he will vow the destruction of any player playing with black mana.

Anyways, I was showing him HEX since the parallels to MtG are obvious and it looks like a pretty good game. He was interested in the game, but predictably he decided that blood magic was reprehensible and vowed to never play a deck with Blood resources. What I found a little more intriguing is that as he read some of the lore, he eventually decided that he will not play decks using any of the cards from underworld races. He will not let his morals be compromised by any faction that will make alliances with zombies (the necrotic), with one exception.... the shin'hare.

In the image in this article (http://hextcg.com/the-internship-experience/), you'll see a lovely scene of Shin'hare celebrating an Easter-like holiday. And this changed everything for him. In his mind, the hyper-aggressive, oppressive, murderous bunnies are okay to play as because they celebrate Easter. Though sometimes his self-righteous attitude grates my sensibilities, I just love watching his moral gymnastics as we discuss this new game. (Of course, Blood Shin'hare decks are still out of the question, but small steps to the dark side I suppose).

arastor
06-27-2013, 02:16 PM
I agree with both 'sides' here. OP is a bit overexaggerating. The shin'are are pretty ruthless and agressive. So to compare it to Hello Kitty is a bit extreme. But on the other side he is right. WHY THE HELL choose bunny's as a serious race...

I never really liked it either. Its weird. Which is what Cryptozoic tried to achieve I guess..
But Im not that disgusted by it as the OP.

Still, me personally would have liked it more to let it just stay with the more classic races and some additions like the necrotic and vennen is nice. The coyotle are a bit weird too... But less bad than the bunnies.

More or less sums up my views. I have grown to accept the rabbits, but it seemed like a very odd choice for a game that seemed serious.

Miwa
06-27-2013, 02:25 PM
I'm way more scared of folks digging the Coyotle than I am of the Shin'hare...

kraluk
06-27-2013, 02:44 PM
More or less sums up my views. I have grown to accept the rabbits, but it seemed like a very odd choice for a game that seemed serious.

I feel the same, at first the bunnies left an impression close to 'My little Pony' around the early days of the kickstarter which made me reluctant to pledge, but as I looked over the rewards, what kind of cards, CZE's goals and whatnot I jumped on the bandwagon ignoring the bunnies as a whole.

This was the first card (champion) of the shin'hare which didn't leave me with a qualiming feeling:
807

Vorpal
06-27-2013, 02:51 PM
Rabbits are really just rats with longer ears and larger libido anyway, and rats are a common villain in fantasy.

jonsnow2000
06-27-2013, 03:00 PM
Personally I love the art style oh the 'Hare cards. And that's coming from a guy who usually can't stand the cutesy kids stuff. I love the irony about this. Cute, funny named bunnys but they are as dark and twisted as it gets. From what CZE has shown us so far my favorite race.

hex_colin
06-27-2013, 03:16 PM
As someone whose parents at one point thought the same as the OP did when selecting a video to entertain the kids, I can only say:

Watership Down


One of the most depressing movies/songs ever....


Is it a kind of dream,
Floating out on the tide,
Following the river of death downstream?
Oh, is it a dream?

There's a fog along the horizon,
A strange glow in the sky,
And nobody seems to know where you go,
And what does it mean?
Oh, is it a dream?

Bright eyes,
Burning like fire.
Bright eyes,
How can you close and fail?
How can the light that burned so brightly
Suddenly burn so pale?
Bright eyes.

Is it a kind of shadow,
Reaching into the night,
Wandering over the hills unseen,
Or is it a dream?

There's a high wind in the trees,
A cold sound in the air,
And nobody ever knows when you go,
And where do you start,
Oh, into the dark.

Bright eyes,
burning like fire.
Bright eyes,
how can you close and fail?
How can the light that burned so brightly
Suddenly burn so pale?
Bright eyes.

Bright eyes,
burning like fire.
Bright eyes,
how can you close and fail?
How can the light that burned so brightly
Suddenly burn so pale?
Bright eyes.

tautologico
06-27-2013, 03:24 PM
I'm way more scared of folks digging the Coyotle than I am of the Shin'hare...

Well, furries play games too.

snarvid
06-27-2013, 03:27 PM
One of the most depressing movies/songs ever....

Yet also possessed of more graphic throat-tearing violence than Road House.

Miwa
06-27-2013, 04:05 PM
I so hope there's a 3 wolf moon card...

fitzle
06-27-2013, 04:33 PM
I like these bunnies and the Coyotle and the Vennen for being different! I wish that Crpt had even gone farther in dropping the standard fantasy tropes. Dwarves and Necros have some slight twists but really not much beyond standard fare. But the humans are just so human and the elves are just so elvish and the orcs are totally orcy. Lore wise these don't stir a whole lot of excitement but maybe as more lore is known they will gain some nuance.

snarvid
06-27-2013, 05:01 PM
Our dwarves are different. So, so different.

Undead were never a standard "race" prior to wow. And these are different by virtue of, potentially, being the purest manifestation of the will of Hex in the game.

justfletch
06-27-2013, 05:04 PM
I really like the Coyotle. I think the choice of aesthetic and culture make them one of the most interesting races. Can't wait to see more of them.

Yoss
06-27-2013, 07:31 PM
Most of this discussion belongs in the Story & Lore section:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=104

Facilier
06-27-2013, 07:39 PM
Makes me kinda sad to see such determined opinions of: it's not serious fantasy if there is humour in it. Makes it seem like people feel unnecessarily confronted by the game in daring to make them deal with the ideas "rawr! Imma crush your dudes!" and "ok, that's kinda funny at the same time".

Some people used to think midgets are funny from just the way they look. Somehow Tolkien managed to rebrand them to "hobbits" and now they are part of so-called high fantasy. Why would the creations of a fantasy world lose validity from adding races other than green humans, pointy-eared humans, small humans, etc? Imagine the rage a great shin'hare warrior must feel, rising from a litter of dozens, to become a guardian of his people, noted among thousands, and the humans belittle him as a cute bunny wabbit?

I think the fantasy world gains authenticity from the actions of alien races appearing comedic to those unfamiliar with them, and from even the most violent and depraved citizens of the world rising above their circumstances through humour. Even here on Earth some of the professionally violent people I know are also some of the funniest, because the alternative of the perpetual immersion in inhumanity is... well... inhuman.

keroko
06-27-2013, 08:00 PM
dirty little seeecrets - chase rarity


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQSz6gKdhO8

if they start pumping shin'hare preview videos like the above, then you have warrent to complain.

but seriously, do the cards have to make you feel 'tough' or 'masculine' to be enjoyable to use or for you to appreciate their art?

keroko
06-27-2013, 08:02 PM
as for the coyotle...

I'll leave it to Walt Disney.... The Coyote's Lament. Watch this and wish they'd made apeture labs with him in the 50s... maybe they did.

the disney park in California is one of the centers of america - just ask any American God.

Coyote's lament


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnSCOcwgjKs

Willzyx
06-27-2013, 08:22 PM
Pandaren (http://www.wowwiki.com/Pandaren).


Thread over.

Malicus
06-27-2013, 09:15 PM
The bunnies don't strike me as cutesy but even if they did what is so awful about Hello Kitty. Hating cute things or thinking its not OK for anyone to like cute things is the same as suggesting if you don't like cars you aren't a real man or suggesting that a man cannot wear salmon. Anyone can like anything - you don't have to like it but if what other people do bothers you so much look for the reason why since its your problem :).

EntropyBall
06-27-2013, 09:17 PM
I love how every troll thread ends with 8 pages of pure adoration and love for hex/crypt. At first I figured it should be closed but I'd rather see this troll crushed by shin'hare fanboys.

I hate how people have taken to calling someone a troll whenever they see a viewpoint they disagree with. Several times on these forums I've seen someone express a minority opinion and then get accused of trolling, when really they were just trying to have an honest discussion. That is not what a troll is.

Also, I literally laughed out loud when reading about the guy who won't use black mana. If that is true (hell, even its not) that is hilarious.

Rtsands45
06-27-2013, 10:34 PM
I, personally, would be more bugged if Hex had a Yugioh sub-theme. God I hate that game, just a bunch of stupid OTKs.(one turn kills)

SeaOfInsanity
06-27-2013, 11:09 PM
Comparing the Shin'Hare to Hello Kitty is pretty ignorant, unless I missed the memo where Hello Kitty characters have a swarm mentality where individual life is meaningless and should be sacrificed for the greater good, where the greater good is the conquering and subjuction of every surface dwelling race.

Damn, someone beat me to it so i'll just say read up on some lore before making more comparisons.
I for one think it was pretty clever to take something like rabbits and visualise a cruel and militant race out of it.
Not to mention a certain Monty Python scene comes to mind right now.

Facilier
06-28-2013, 03:43 AM
And chronologically-speaking wouldn't talking bunnies with their own agenda be more of an Alice in Wonderland sub-theme than Hello Kitty?

TZHX
06-28-2013, 04:18 AM
Rabbits are evil. Haven't you seen Watership Down?

zachawry
06-28-2013, 04:26 AM
Funny story related to the OP about bias in regards to the lore:

Not a bias, just personal preference or taste. Which I stated numerous times.

(A taste that has been reiterated by many on this thread who have said they feel the same way, although probably less strongly.)

zachawry
06-28-2013, 04:33 AM
Because the lore drives the artwork and mechanics of the cards? Without it we would just have boring generic fantasy tropes. I like that they are turning the cute bunny trope on it's head.

I'm no game designer, but do you really think the lore drives the mechanics and not the other way around? Do you think the creative team makes a design of killer procreating rabbits and tells the development team to make a core game mechanic based around this idea? I highly, highly doubt it.

I'm pretty sure that it's a two-way, give-and-take kind of thing, but I would by really, really surprised if in essence the mechanic/strategic element didn't come first.

The cutesy thing bugs me, yes, but also, taking and using rabbits as-is is just a huge lost opportunity for something original and neat, like the Vennen. No, everything doesn't have to be elves, dwarves, and dragons, but if you're going to step off the beaten-fantasy path, why not really step off and do something more imagination-busting than wabbits?

Malicus
06-28-2013, 04:37 AM
I'm no game designer, but do you really think the lore drives the mechanics and not the other way around? Do you think the creative team makes a design of kill procreating rabbits and tells the development team to make a core game mechanic based around this idea? I highly, highly doubt it.

I'm pretty sure that it's a two-way, give-and-take kind of thing, but I would by really, really surprised if in essence the mechanic/strategic element didn't come first.

I can easily see it going either way.

Jinxies
06-28-2013, 04:38 AM
I don't get why someone who don't care about lore gives a crap about card art or flavour text at all... If you have no interest in the world or a slightly more immersive experience then why would it matter... The Shin'Hares are one of the few new interesting fantasy races I've seen in recent years and a generally a great concept... Even their art is grim and cool (mostly for the blood cards, as it should be). It feels like the OP looked at 1-2 cards and said "this is stupid I'm gonna go whine on the forums) with out bothering to look any deeper than that.

I mean I get personal taste but from the OP it's so obvious that he didn't even care to look any further than that initial first impression and it kinda makes me want to slam my face into the desk :rolleyes:

Justinkp
06-28-2013, 04:45 AM
I hate how people have taken to calling someone a troll whenever they see a viewpoint they disagree with. Several times on these forums I've seen someone express a minority opinion and then get accused of trolling, when really they were just trying to have an honest discussion. That is not what a troll is.

Also, I literally laughed out loud when reading about the guy who won't use black mana. If that is true (hell, even its not) that is hilarious.

I've noticed the same thing and been annoyed by it.

I guess the community is so good in general with so few real trolls that people feel they have to find some_somewhere_.

Justinkp
06-28-2013, 04:56 AM
I'm no game designer, but do you really think the lore drives the mechanics and not the other way around? Do you think the creative team makes a design of killer procreating rabbits and tells the development team to make a core game mechanic based around this idea? I highly, highly doubt it.

I'm pretty sure that it's a two-way, give-and-take kind of thing, but I would by really, really surprised if in essence the mechanic/strategic element didn't come first.

The cutesy thing bugs me, yes, but also, taking and using rabbits as-is is just a huge lost opportunity for something original and neat, like the Vennen. No, everything doesn't have to be elves, dwarves, and dragons, but if you're going to step off the beaten-fantasy path, why not really step off and do something more imagination-busting than wabbits?

As I said when I first saw them I agreed. Then I read the lore and found them to be a unique and interesting race. They aren't just "wabbits" they're aggressive ruthlessly expansionist samurai who don't care about the value of individual life. Continuing to just say they're cutesy, unimaginative wabbits just makes you look ignorant at this point. Its fine if you still don't like them, but continuing to miscontrue what they actually are for your first impression of them does start to make you look like a troll

And as to your next point where you claim that your viewpoint has been reiterated by many, not that I've seen, certainly not by many and certainly not about the shin'hare. Many, including myself, have expressed distaste for such things as the Woolvir but support for the shin'hare has been almost unanimous.

And its a preference when you have it, and a bias wihen other people have it ;) Just like what's teaching to some is brainwashing to others.

jai151
06-28-2013, 05:40 AM
I'm no game designer, but do you really think the lore drives the mechanics and not the other way around? Do you think the creative team makes a design of killer procreating rabbits and tells the development team to make a core game mechanic based around this idea? I highly, highly doubt it.

Actually, you'd be surprised. Look at the Innistrad block of Magic, for example. Lore/creative completely drove that block.

Stok3d
06-28-2013, 09:07 AM
Not a troll! I live in Japan, and the whole country seems to think it's perfectly normal for adults to plaster their cars in Hello-Kitty-ish cute girls stuff. This drives me crazy, and I'm perfectly willing to admit that it's just my own neurosis.


I stopped reading replies here as I see you answered your own question--there is obviously a large marketing base for it.
If you have such a distaste for cute bunnies, then never play them. Actually, you can now secretly squirm in glee when you play these decks and mutilate the furry innocent little creatures every time. I'm presume you'll play an anti-bunny deck ^ ^

cavench
06-28-2013, 09:44 AM
I think today's update is in direct response to this thread. Yeah, these bunnies are no Hello Kitties.

http://hextcg.com/art-feature-the-shinhare/

ElvenMercenary
06-28-2013, 10:01 AM
Now I want to see a Hello Kitty Themed set of parody cards that re-imagines them with Shin'Hare flavor. I'm thinking Wretched Brood but instead of the realistic newborn bunnies it would be a bunch of realistic disgusting Hello Kitty style cats.

XaosII
06-28-2013, 10:05 AM
While part of me wishes the art for Hex to have taken itself a bit more serious, i suppose its still good for the game to have its own uniqueness to the world.

I'm more afraid of long term and future sets if they intend to stick with these races and themes. Eventually it'll get boring.

Hatts
06-28-2013, 10:06 AM
I think today's update is in direct response to this thread. Yeah, these bunnies are no Hello Kitties.

http://hextcg.com/art-feature-the-shinhare/

I think you're right. Hello Kitty is the last thing that comes to mind when seeing that art, Hello Awesome is more like it.

Zophie
06-28-2013, 10:34 AM
This is how I feel every day of my life:

http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/WretchedBrood.jpg

HyenaNipples
06-28-2013, 11:27 AM
Shower.

Devaux
06-28-2013, 11:30 AM
Haven't read everything that was said here but I felt similarly to OP at first but the more I see of the shin'hare the more I like them and feel like they have a place in the world. This is facilitated by the fact that I love a good weenie deck.

keroko
06-28-2013, 03:11 PM
!YOU WILL LEARN TO LOVE!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQcccIfy7mE

AmineHsu
06-28-2013, 10:46 PM
To the OP:
Your first few posts come off extremely troll-ish, you you starting right out of the gate with insults and hyperbole and proceeding to make borderline racist sweeping generalization comment.

Later on you seem to calm down and start making what I would consider valid arguments (even if I don't agree with them) but your early comments and the way you seem to be going way over the top and making some comments that express opinions that are honestly going to be hard for people to believe (Caring so strongly about the thematic of the art, but not caring in the slightest about the Lore, especially in a game that has a such a strong commitment to have a strong lore base) make it very easy to write you off as a troll.

Personally, I think the Shin'hare are great they're extremely unique (even the Vennan could easily just be seen as male driders) and I get the feeling there is really places for the race to go.

keroko
06-29-2013, 12:37 AM
first delivered of the grand concubunny are fed on teeth of the lesser newborn.
later to flesh and meal.
a crown in time, and rarely sickness.

mmimzie
06-29-2013, 01:01 AM
This thread has gotten kind of weird and abit bashy toward the OP. The art style for some of the races are abit brighter than magic. CZE is going more for a FUN art style with dark undertones while Magic goes for a more 'cool' art style (akin to gamer blue).

AmineHsu
06-29-2013, 02:13 AM
I'm not bashing OP. It was stated people were calling OP a troll just because they disagreed with him, I'm pointing out legitimate issues with how he initially pursued this topic that would lead people to assume he's a troll.

Let me play devil's advocate here:

His first post (and the topic title even) makes a demeaning comparison, he suggests that people who like Shin'hare like stuff made for 6 year olds (a type of activity commonly associated with creepy (or worse) types of people), makes a veiled threat to pull support if shin'hare are given prominence, and then suggests that that Crypto is trying to cash in on people who like things made for 6 year olds (aka Creepy (or Worse) people).

In his next comment he starts off with an inaccurate and borderline racists generalizations, suggests people who like shin'hare are like people who plaster their car with Hello Kitty stuff. He goes on to claim the art for a few Shin'hare card are self-evidently awful, and ends it off with a suggestion that anyone who likes shin'hares are lacking in mental capacity and that the Shin'hare's inclusion will lead to Hex's fiscal failure in the face of it's competitors.

He does preface both comments as being his opinions, but does so in both cases in a way that expresses disbelief that anyone could think otherwise.

Now, I'm going to give OP the benefit of the doubt and assume he's sincere albeit bad at expressing himself and a bit rude. That said, it's not beyond belief that many people looking at this thread would think OP is a troll especially if they just read the first few posts (which they might because they think he's a troll).

Malakili
06-29-2013, 08:08 PM
If the game mechanics are good I couldn't frankly give a shit what the art on the cards looks like.

Ashbury137
06-29-2013, 11:36 PM
When I first saw that the Shin-Hare were a violent race of rabbits, my first thoughts went to Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail, not Hello Kitty. Anyone else?

SeaOfInsanity
06-30-2013, 12:10 AM
When I first saw that the Shin-Hare were a violent race of rabbits, my first thoughts went to Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail, not Hello Kitty. Anyone else?

Yep, I went there when I replied to this post.

zachawry
06-30-2013, 07:52 AM
To the OP:
Your first few posts come off extremely troll-ish, you you starting right out of the gate with insults and hyperbole and proceeding to make borderline racist sweeping generalization comment.

Later on you seem to calm down and start making what I would consider valid arguments (even if I don't agree with them) but your early comments and the way you seem to be going way over the top and making some comments that express opinions that are honestly going to be hard for people to believe (Caring so strongly about the thematic of the art, but not caring in the slightest about the Lore, especially in a game that has a such a strong commitment to have a strong lore base) make it very easy to write you off as a troll.

Personally, I think the Shin'hare are great they're extremely unique (even the Vennan could easily just be seen as male driders) and I get the feeling there is really places for the race to go.

OK, granted, the first post was a bit heated. All I can say is that, I really do care about the flavor, but not at all about the lore.

I don't see why that's a contradiction. I've played MTG for a long time, and I love the art and the flavortext...At it's best, it really stirs the imagination. ("The soul of the world has returned....")

And yet, the few times, I've tried reading backstories to MTG, I've cringed at how bad it is. Same with the little bit of lore I've read for Hex and Solforge. So bad. So trite. Let me just play the game and enjoy the cards.

(As for Japan, Japanese people see nothing inherently wrong or misplaced about spewing over-the-top cuteness everywhere, including for all genders and age groups. So what I said wouldn't even be considered negative stereotyping! They see nothing inherently contradictory about having a coming-of-age ceremony newly-minted "adults" at Tokyo Disneyland, which is at once what I love and what really bugs me about the country.)

Rtsands45
06-30-2013, 08:45 AM
Why in God's name is this still on the first page. Please let it die and fall into the forum abyss.

keroko
06-30-2013, 11:09 AM
well, its a thing... people who're fanboying a particular alternative to anything will pick what looks 'weak' and point at it. Its natural, you're trying to unravel or destroy something so you look for the cracked stone or loose earth right?

bunny rabbits 'stick out' - so poke a finger in their eye! Its not the most cunning of tactic in a swat of offense against a nascent tcg.

The art style of one or more of the artists involved in creation of hex cards and game assets might not appeal to some. Hopefully something like having a rabbit race or a coyote race doesn't infringe on mass appeal of the product. I don't think it will.

I for one am very pleased that the art style is as varied as it is across the races, and look forward to more - of all types. As long as its good.

tautologico
06-30-2013, 06:17 PM
well, its a thing... people who're fanboying a particular alternative to anything will pick what looks 'weak' and point at it. Its natural, you're trying to unravel or destroy something so you look for the cracked stone or loose earth right?


So you're saying that if someone doesn't like some aspect of HEX, they're a fanboy for another card game? We have to love everything about the game or else we're "trolls" or "fanboys"?