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hex_colin
06-28-2013, 10:12 AM
Much less waiting and gnashing of teeth this week... Thanks CZE!

Xintia
06-28-2013, 10:13 AM
Aww, and here I was hoping for, "Surprise, alpha starts early!" :D

Icepick
06-28-2013, 10:13 AM
Doh, you beat me to it, was just about to post this myself!
Here's the link: http://hextcg.com/pvp-champions-ardent/

I was honestly expecting a lot of similar stuff to the Underworld side but there's a lot of very cool variation here. Awesome stuff.

Kroan
06-28-2013, 10:14 AM
No new card spoilers unfortunatly. Also the last champion seems to have the wrong race associated with it. (Card says Dwarf). And drawing cards doesn't sound very warrior-ish to me :P

Somehow the champions of Ardent seem a bit better than the Underworld. Not that it matters a lot, but the permanent bonuses sure can be handy. Especially giving permanent flying to one of your big troops

Hatts
06-28-2013, 10:15 AM
There is also a new art feature on the Shin'Hare: http://hextcg.com/art-feature-the-shinhare/

hex_colin
06-28-2013, 10:15 AM
Doh, you beat me to it, was just about to post this myself!
Here's the link: http://hextcg.com/pvp-champions-ardent/

I was honestly expecting a lot of similar stuff to the Underworld side but there's a lot of very cool variation here. Awesome stuff.

The Ardent special abilities look more interesting for the most part. Might even have the power edge too - it'll be interesting to hear people's thoughts.

hex_colin
06-28-2013, 10:17 AM
There is also a new art feature on the Shin'Hare: http://hextcg.com/art-feature-the-shinhare/

I'm constantly surprised by how much I like the Shin'hare art. It was good to see it all in one place in this article.

Avaian
06-28-2013, 10:17 AM
Somehow the champions of Ardent seem a bit better than the Underworld. Not that it matters a lot, but the permanent bonuses sure can be handy. Especially giving permanent flying to one of your big troops

The underworld champions, have cheaper abilities in general.

incitfulmonk21
06-28-2013, 10:18 AM
really the permanent flight and all troops get steadfast seem a bit over powered compared to the underworld. maybe the blaze elemental as well.

But the permanent flight for 3 charges is way overpowered compared to the other abilities.

Hemotherapy
06-28-2013, 10:19 AM
Really wish that you could use charges powers as a quick action, the +2/+0 and +1/+1 charge powers would be really cool to use as sort of a "trap" type deal.


^ agreed about the flight/steadfest being a little on the OP side, but in reality, thinking back to blocks in magic there were cards around the same cost that did the same sthings, as long as the sets are balanced around it, it won't be OP

hex_colin
06-28-2013, 10:23 AM
^ agreed about the flight/steadfest being a little on the OP side, but in reality, thinking back to blocks in magic there were cards around the same cost that did the same sthings, as long as the sets are balanced around it, it won't be OP

It's more that these might be so much better than the other bonuses that they end up being the only 2 getting used because of their broad usefulness to multiple deck archetypes.

hex_colin
06-28-2013, 10:24 AM
And the KS update... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts

Shaqattaq
06-28-2013, 10:25 AM
No new card spoilers unfortunatly. Also the last champion seems to have the wrong race associated with it. (Card says Dwarf). And drawing cards doesn't sound very warrior-ish to me :P

Somehow the champions of Ardent seem a bit better than the Underworld. Not that it matters a lot, but the permanent bonuses sure can be handy. Especially giving permanent flying to one of your big troops

We'll resume card previews next week. Champions are the building blocks for decks, so we wanted to get those out first.

As for the error, yeah, I saw that one. Please forgive me. I didn't catch it last night and we're in the process of moving, so I couldn't get to my work computer to correct the error. We'll fix it once our computers are set up again in the new office.

Icepick
06-28-2013, 10:25 AM
The Steadfast ability is only for a turn, don't forget. It's powerful, but I don't think it's overpowered - I doubt it will win you the game unless you were already in a position to win anyway, for example.

Prism
06-28-2013, 10:31 AM
damn... shin'hare are awesome

Also, the permanent +flying champion is nuts

Icepick
06-28-2013, 10:34 AM
Am I missing something with Lady Elizabeth Stewart (http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LadyElizabeth_Web.png)?
She seems to be very underpowered - 5 Charges for a 3/3 troop (with no other special rules) into your hand, that you then have to pay 5 resources to play? This seems like a pretty poor ability, unless I am missing something pretty big here.

Avaian
06-28-2013, 10:37 AM
Am I missing something with Lady Elizabeth Stewart (http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LadyElizabeth_Web.png)?
She seems to be very underpowered - 5 Charges for a 3/3 troop (with no other special rules) into your hand, that you then have to pay 5 resources to play? This seems like a pretty poor ability, unless I am missing something pretty big here.

Inspire.

hammer
06-28-2013, 10:38 AM
Agree permanent flight seems OP and the 3/3 for 5 charge to hand seems terribly weak.

incitfulmonk21
06-28-2013, 10:38 AM
Am I missing something with Lady Elizabeth Stewart (http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LadyElizabeth_Web.png)?
She seems to be very underpowered - 5 Charges for a 3/3 troop (with no other special rules) into your hand, that you then have to pay 5 resources to play? This seems like a pretty poor ability, unless I am missing something pretty big here.

It's a discussion we are having in the guild. It's not as bad as it looks. because it offers card advantage and could see use in a mid range deck but in the end you are probably still better off using a different champ unless you are running an inspire deck which the troop would get a lot of benefit from.

Grubar
06-28-2013, 10:38 AM
Am I missing something with Lady Elizabeth Stewart (http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LadyElizabeth_Web.png)?
She seems to be very underpowered - 5 Charges for a 3/3 troop (with no other special rules) into your hand, that you then have to pay 5 resources to play? This seems like a pretty poor ability, unless I am missing something pretty big here.

I am not saying that it is an awesome ability.. but you have to remember that it is a card from nothing.. and card advantage/a creature to play from nothing are never a bad thing.

Shadowelf
06-28-2013, 10:40 AM
Shin'hare artwork sure looks kewl although i'd prefer if they had previewed one of the less known races

incitfulmonk21
06-28-2013, 10:42 AM
they are doing it based on the poll. so necrotic will be next.

EDIT: Poll is gone but it was up during KS asking which race you want to see next.

Shadowelf
06-28-2013, 10:46 AM
they are doing it based on the poll. so necrotic will be next.

EDIT: Poll is gone but it was up during KS asking which race you want to see next.

Yeah i remember the poll, didn't know that they followed the poll's results of popularity however ;/

Stok3d
06-28-2013, 10:51 AM
Is it sad that I look forward more to these updates than my own paychecks on Fridays?

Vorpal
06-28-2013, 10:52 AM
Interesting. They are very different from the underworld champions: it seems like most of them focus on creating new creatures for you. Most of them seem weaker to me.

The human one that creates a 5 cost creature probably only works at all in an inspire deck, as a creature with that cost will be inspired by just about everyone. However, it is quite true that using 5 charges and 5 resources to create a 3/3 creature with no abilities at all is...terrible.


I also find the coyotle cleric who gains 5 health on 6 charges to be interesting. Normally you wouldn't want to include heal spells in a deck as they don't do anything for you if you don't need them, but with the mild effect most charge abilities seem to have, having an alternate form of healing via charges seems it could be useful.

The sapphire coyotle who grants flight seems extremely good.

The orc warrior shows that, very appropriately, CZE continues to value drawing additional cards extremely highly.

Vorpal
06-28-2013, 10:58 AM
I am not saying that it is an awesome ability.. but you have to remember that it is a card from nothing.. and card advantage/a creature to play from nothing are never a bad thing.

There are a whole bunch of card from nothing champions.

8 charges/0 resources = 6/6 with crush
2 charges/0 resources = 3/1 with speed (dies at end of turn)
6 charges/0 resources = X/X (where X is how man resources you draw from 10 cards, which is probably around 3 or 4)

Then there's

5 charges/5 resources =3/3

That's just an abysmally bad deal. All the others would work just fine in an inpsire deck as well. The adamanthian elite BADLY needs to be put into play rather than into hand.

As it stands, the orc's blaze elemental will work much much better in inspire decks than this thing.

Icepick
06-28-2013, 10:58 AM
Inspire.

I guess the 5 cost does make it a good target for Inspire, and if you were running an Inspire-heavy deck you could buff the thing to pretty powerful levels, but that's true of any 5 cost troop. I guess the fact that it's a free card is the bigger thing here (we know from the Underworld Champions that they cost extra cards in your hand pretty highly), but even if it *is* a free card, it's still a fairly poor card for 5 cost. Compare it to the Aggressive Warhulk - also a 3/3 at 5 cost, but it also has Crush and an ability to give it +1/+0.
I know card advantage is supposed to be a super big deal, but if the card you are getting is as unimpressive as this one, is it really an advantage? *shrug*

Devaux
06-28-2013, 11:00 AM
Guys, the one orc lets you draw a card! Though we already knew that one. The only one of these that we didn't already know that jumps out at me is the one that grants flight.

Life gain is "neat" but I wouldn't take it over any of the others.

Squirrel titan is funny but not something I care about.

Of the humans I like the +1/+1 ability most but even then only for limited. That sort of effect (especially without costing a card or resources) can kind of break combat even as a basic action.

Gonna build a deck with literally nothing but resources for that one orc (not (ok maybe but only for funsises).

Grubar
06-28-2013, 11:09 AM
There are a whole bunch of card from nothing champions.

8 charges/0 resources = 6/6 with crush
2 charges/0 resources = 3/1 with speed (dies at end of turn)
6 charges/0 resources = X/X (where X is how man resources you draw from 10 cards, which is probably around 3 or 4)

Then there's

5 charges/5 resources =3/3

That's just an abysmally bad deal. All the others would work just fine in an inpsire deck as well. The adamanthian elite BADLY needs to be put into play rather than into hand.

As it stands, the orc's blaze elemental will work much much better in inspire decks than this thing.

This is true, but none of those other abilities put a card into your hand? I can think of a particular aesthetic who is aspiring to something who likes having cards in your hand.

As I previously stated, I don't think it is an awesome ability, but I don't think you really put enough thought into its uses before dismissing it as a bad ability.

Avaian
06-28-2013, 11:10 AM
There are a whole bunch of card from nothing champions.

8 charges/0 resources = 6/6 with crush
2 charges/0 resources = 3/1 with speed (dies at end of turn)
6 charges/0 resources = X/X (where X is how man resources you draw from 10 cards, which is probably around 3 or 4)

Then there's

5 charges/5 resources =3/3

That's just an abysmally bad deal. All the others would work just fine in an inpsire deck as well. The adamanthian elite BADLY needs to be put into play rather than into hand.

As it stands, the orc's blaze elemental will work much much better in inspire decks than this thing.

The 8/8 requires 3 wild threshold, which will make it poor in an Inspire deck.
The 3/1 haste, dies at end of the turn and has a cost of 3. The low cost can miss a couple inspires, and the death at the end of turn slightly limits in a non-burn deck.
The rock elemental, could be better, but we don't know the cost of the elemental.

Grubar
06-28-2013, 11:14 AM
I guess the 5 cost does make it a good target for Inspire, and if you were running an Inspire-heavy deck you could buff the thing to pretty powerful levels, but that's true of any 5 cost troop. I guess the fact that it's a free card is the bigger thing here (we know from the Underworld Champions that they cost extra cards in your hand pretty highly), but even if it *is* a free card, it's still a fairly poor card for 5 cost. Compare it to the Aggressive Warhulk - also a 3/3 at 5 cost, but it also has Crush and an ability to give it +1/+0.
I know card advantage is supposed to be a super big deal, but if the card you are getting is as unimpressive as this one, is it really an advantage? *shrug*

It can be against certain match ups. against control with lots of sweepers, being guaranteed a 3/3 for 5 charges can do wonders for how you play out your first 4 turns. You should also keep in mind limited play. Knowing that on turn 5 if I hit all my land drops that I can be guaranteed a 3/3 creature that I don't lose card advantage playing seems decent. Especially with the current quality of midrange creatures we have.

Fireblast
06-28-2013, 11:16 AM
Lady Elizabeth Stewart is definitely meant to make sure you have a troop for your 5drop.
She requires ONLY 1 diamond threshold cause the inspire deck will/could be all 3 human shards...

~

Icepick
06-28-2013, 11:19 AM
It can be against certain match ups. against control with lots of sweepers, being guaranteed a 3/3 for 5 charges can do wonders for how you play out your first 4 turns. You should also keep in mind limited play. Knowing that on turn 5 if I hit all my land drops that I can be guaranteed a 3/3 creature that I don't lose card advantage playing seems decent. Especially with the current quality of midrange creatures we have.

Yeah, I suppose so. I guess it comes down to how you interpret what you are paying for. Being able to guarantee that you have that troop available once you hit 5 Resources is probably worth something.

Devaux
06-28-2013, 11:19 AM
I guess the 5 cost does make it a good target for Inspire, and if you were running an Inspire-heavy deck you could buff the thing to pretty powerful levels, but that's true of any 5 cost troop. I guess the fact that it's a free card is the bigger thing here (we know from the Underworld Champions that they cost extra cards in your hand pretty highly), but even if it *is* a free card, it's still a fairly poor card for 5 cost. Compare it to the Aggressive Warhulk - also a 3/3 at 5 cost, but it also has Crush and an ability to give it +1/+0.
I know card advantage is supposed to be a super big deal, but if the card you are getting is as unimpressive as this one, is it really an advantage? *shrug*

To me that's not even the right question. The extra card is great (almost regardless what it is and in this case it's a 3/3 which is relevant). The problem is the tempo it'll cost you. I suppose you'll eventually get to the point where you're out of things in hand to cast and then the fact that this card is inefficient will matter less but that's not the point. One of the coolest thing about champions to me is the fact that they let you do things without resources so you can do multiple things on turns where other wise you could only do one thing. This does that..... sort of.

In a vacuum its fine. But we aren't in a vacuum and there are 19 other champs we have to choose from.

Vorpal
06-28-2013, 11:19 AM
This is true, but none of those other abilities put a card into your hand? I can think of a particular aesthetic who is aspiring to something who likes having cards in your hand.

As I previously stated, I don't think it is an awesome ability, but I don't think you really put enough thought into its uses before dismissing it as a bad ability.

I don't think there's any advantage to having the card go to your hand and have to pay 5 resources to put it into play, vice putting it into play immediately. You get the card advantage either way.

It's clearly a very weak ability compared to the others. That's what makes it bad.

Vorpal
06-28-2013, 11:21 AM
Gonna build a deck with literally nothing but resources for that one orc (not (ok maybe but only for funsises).

It would really only need to be about 1/2 to 2/3 resources.

A 6 charge 6/6 monster on turn 6 is nothing to sneeze at.

Avaian
06-28-2013, 11:24 AM
Gonna build a deck with literally nothing but resources for that one orc (not (ok maybe but only for funsises).

That is an interesting idea, do something like 4 Shrine of prosperity, 4 charge bot, and 52 ruby sources. I could see it working well, not high level but it could win games.

Devaux
06-28-2013, 11:26 AM
Dear lord what deck am I playing that is made up 2/3 of resources?? 40 resource cards in a 60 card deck? You'll cast like 2 spells per game just so that you can get a "free" creature on turn 6 that is -on average- a 6/6. No thanks.

Vorpal
06-28-2013, 11:30 AM
Dear lord what deck am I playing that is made up 2/3 of resources?? 40 resource cards in a 60 card deck? You'll cast like 2 spells per game just so that you can get a "free" creature on turn 6 that is -on average- a 6/6. No thanks.

As pointed out above, there are many cards that would help when compared to a purely resource deck. You can only play 1 resource a turn, which means only one charge a turn. There are cards that let you charge faster and play more than one resource a turn, which it would be wise to include if you can do so without diluting the potential power of a 10 card draw too much.

Grubar
06-28-2013, 11:32 AM
I don't think there's any advantage to having the card go to your hand and have to pay 5 resources to put it into play, vice putting it into play immediately. You get the card advantage either way.


you must have missed my reference. I gave you an example of a card that wants you to have it in your hand and not directly into play.

809

And with only half of the set spoiled.. who knows if there will be more?

Devaux
06-28-2013, 11:33 AM
As pointed out above, there are many cards that would help when compared to a purely resource deck. You can only play 1 resource a turn, which means only one charge a turn. There are cards that let you charge faster and play more than one resource a turn, which it would be wise to include if you can do so without diluting the potential power of a 10 card draw too much.

I still don't see it. Now not only am I drawing 2-4 spells per game but also those spells are only going to help me play more resources of which I already have plenty of?

I'm prepared to be wrong about this when the game comes out but until such a day I'm not going to lend it any more thought. And this is from somebody with a burning desire to play Legacy Lands in MTG.

Avaian
06-28-2013, 11:35 AM
you must have missed my reference. I gave you an example of a card that wants you to have it in your hand and not directly into play.

809

And with only half of the set spoiled.. who knows if there will be more?

I have a deck idea based around him, and was thinking of using Herczeg, but the Steward may be better thanks, to the access of another troop. (The deck: http://www.hex-datamine.com/deck.php?s=25,39,67,83,84,92,94,112,119,131,187,19 2,214,217&qt=2,2,4,2,2,13,11,4,4,4,4,2,2,4)

Avaian
06-28-2013, 11:37 AM
I still don't see it. Now not only am I drawing 2-4 spells per game but also those spells are only going to help me play more resources of which I already have plenty of?

I'm prepared to be wrong about this when the game comes out but until such a day I'm not going to lend it any more thought. And this is from somebody with a burning desire to play Legacy Lands in MTG.

Shrine of Prosperity, increases the amount of charges the top source of your deck gives you, and Charge Bot gives you a charge. There are also cards that let you make sources in wild.

Devaux
06-28-2013, 11:44 AM
Shrine of Prosperity, increases the amount of charges the top source of your deck gives you, and Charge Bot gives you a charge. There are also cards that let you make sources in wild.

Yes I'm aware. They still fall under the category of "only going to help me play more resources which I already have plenty of".

Now if you're trying to convince me this deck is a remotely good idea then talk about Soul Marble not the shrine.

Avaian
06-28-2013, 11:50 AM
Yes I'm aware. They still fall under the category of "only going to help me play more resources which I already have plenty of".

Now if you're trying to convince me this deck is a remotely good idea then talk about Soul Marble not the shrine.

The deck idea would ignore your resources, its goal would entirely be charged based. The goal is to get to 6 charge power as quickly and as often as possible, while at the same time having enough sources in your deck so the troop you make is large. Thanks to the simplicity of the deck, it wouldn't hurt to mulligan all the way down to 1 card in search of a Shrine in your starting hand.

Icepick
06-28-2013, 11:50 AM
Is anyone else a little disappointed that the Mammoth Squirrel Titan uses the same art as Wild Growth?

Fireblast
06-28-2013, 11:55 AM
Placeholder

~

Devaux
06-28-2013, 11:58 AM
The deck idea would ignore your resources, its goal would entirely be charged based. The goal is to get to 6 charge power as quickly and as often as possible, while at the same time having enough sources in your deck so the troop you make is large. Thanks to the simplicity of the deck, it wouldn't hurt to mulligan all the way down to 1 card in search of a Shrine in your starting hand.

Yes I understand the point of the deck. It sounds like trading both your legs to make your arm a few inches longer in an attempt to reach the top of a bookshelf.

Fireblast
06-28-2013, 12:24 PM
Yes I understand the point of the deck. It sounds like trading both your legs to make your arm a few inches longer in an attempt to reach the top of a bookshelf.

Nice one :D

~

Vorpal
06-28-2013, 12:42 PM
you must have missed my reference. I gave you an example of a card that wants you to have it in your hand and not directly into play.

809

And with only half of the set spoiled.. who knows if there will be more?

If you just want to draw a card for that transcended limit, I suspect the sapphire dwarf that draws cards will be much better, as you're probably going to need the special capabilities of sapphire to get your ascended up and running.

Vorpal
06-28-2013, 12:47 PM
Gonna build a deck with literally nothing but resources for that one orc (not (ok maybe but only for funsises).

Let's take this, from the top, once more, slowly.

You will draw and play one resource a turn. You will get one charge a turn. No more, no less.

The earliest you can get even a single monster out will be turn 6 and he will be a 10/10.

Now, if we add in things like charge bots or shrine of prosperity or any ruby card version of that wild card that lets you play resources, you will be getting MORE than one charge per turn.

Having your first monster be an 8/8 monster out on turn 4 is way way way better than having your first monster be a 10/10 out on turn 6. You'll probably have lost long before turn 6 if you have literally nothing but resources.

There are cards that will charge your champion much faster than a deck of nothing but resources, because of the one resource card a turn limit.

IF you want to play this champion, there are much better ways to go about it than having a deck of all resources.

Devaux
06-28-2013, 01:22 PM
Let's take this, from the top, once more, slowly.

You will draw and play one resource a turn. You will get one charge a turn. No more, no less.

The earliest you can get even a single monster out will be turn 6 and he will be a 10/10.

Now, if we add in things like charge bots or shrine of prosperity or any ruby card version of that wild card that lets you play resources, you will be getting MORE than one charge per turn.

Having your first monster be an 8/8 monster out on turn 4 is way way way better than having your first monster be a 10/10 out on turn 6. You'll probably have lost long before turn 6 if you have literally nothing but resources.

There are cards that will charge your champion much faster than a deck of nothing but resources, because of the one resource card a turn limit.

IF you want to play this champion, there are much better ways to go about it than having a deck of all resources.

My remark about a deck of entirely made of resources was a joke which was designed to show how impractical I thought the ability was.

Let me reply slowly. I understand the point of the deck you're proposing and I think it's ridiculous.

Vorpal
06-28-2013, 01:56 PM
My point is the joke deck you made was a BAD joke deck and my joke deck is much better.

If you're going to make a joke deck you may as well do it properly.

Avaian
06-28-2013, 02:21 PM
My remark about a deck of entirely made of resources was a joke which was designed to show how impractical I thought the ability was.

Let me reply slowly. I understand the point of the deck you're proposing and I think it's ridiculous.

:( I would agree with what you said if the deck wasn't a just below average to average deck.

The deck I see with current cards is 4 Shrine of Prosperity, 4 Charge Bot, and 52 Ruby Sources with Tetzot as your champion.

To beat it, you would need to destroy the Shrines of Prosperity, overwhelm your opponent, kill off every Rock elemental, or defeat it before it can get a foothold.

A deck made by an average player would have chances to one or more of those but are generally inconsistent. (Average players, are the ones who won't own several copies of every card and will makes mistakes sometimes. Average players won't have the ideal decks or be able to play them well.)

If you are unable to stop the deck by turn 12, then your chances of winning are low. For a deck consisting of 8 non-source cards to be viable is crazy, but just because it goes against the norm doesn't mean it is bad.

Hemlock
06-28-2013, 03:12 PM
Hm. Such a deck would have no issues mulling endlessly until you get a Shrine in your opening hand. If you do, then you'd be able to get a ~9/9 elemental on the board by turn 4, and probably another by turn 7.

Of course, any decent deck would have an answer to this. Inner Conflict, Repel, Murder, and Runt of the Litter all destroy this strategy, and any aggro deck worth its salt would outpace it.

That said, if you use Tetzot (or Elizabeth/Polonius, I suppose) with Trial of Faith, getting an Elemental out there right after you void your board could be incredibly helpful. I always thought that the card was trash, but now I'm seeing some promise...

Captain_Obvious
06-28-2013, 03:44 PM
~With the way you guys are analyzing a joke, remind me to never take you to a comedy club~

Corpselocker
06-28-2013, 04:32 PM
I'm going to take the sapphire hero that gives permanent flight and give all my sapphire creatures that have flight some more flight...

That guy is pretty sick with the Cerulean Mirror Knight on the board.