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Rapierian
06-28-2013, 11:07 AM
There are a couple of card stats I would love to see while I'm drafting:


the big one: how many copies of the card do I already own?
Also: what's the card going for on the AH? (You know players are already going to do this, why not just display it directly?)

Yoss
06-28-2013, 11:12 AM
Duplicate thread. Click the Hot Topics link in my sig and look for the "Informational Tooltip" item.

Aradon
06-28-2013, 11:12 AM
More relevant to the draft (and probably already in their intended design) are the layout of the cards you've already picked, arrangeable by mana cost.

After spending a little time in the auction house, you'll probably have a good idea what the money cards are, and you should have a good general feel for whether you want a card in a pack for you collection or not, so personally I'm less interested in the features listed here. I'm mostly concerned with having information for deckbuilding.

Tathel
06-28-2013, 11:13 AM
There are a couple of card stats I would love to see while I'm drafting:


the big one: how many copies of the card do I already own?
Also: what's the card going for on the AH? (You know players are already going to do this, why not just display it directly?)


I actually don't know that competitively how many copies are owned will matter much, also unless you are picking a dreg card you can just trade for something after the draft.

I think AH pricing is a bad bad bad idea, IMO it ruins the tournament side and promotes value drafting...

I'd mostly like to see a resource curve graph, number of troops, colour %s

Yoss
06-28-2013, 11:17 AM
I think AH pricing is a bad bad bad idea, IMO it ruins the tournament side and promotes value drafting...
And who are you to say how someone should draft? If someone just wants to value draft, what's it to you? If you're a competitive drafter, a value drafter will just net you more wins because they're making "poor" choices in terms of winning the draft.

I envision the tooltip as being optional (you can turn it off).

Also, I'm pretty sure they'll have deck stats available.

Avaian
06-28-2013, 11:20 AM
And who are you to say how someone should draft? If someone just wants to value draft, what's it to you? If you're a competitive drafter, a value drafter will just net you more wins because they're making "poor" choices in terms of winning the draft.

I envision the tooltip as being optional (you can turn it off).

Also, I'm pretty sure they'll have deck stats available.

There is nothing wrong with people value drafting, but having the prices easily available does promote people to do it, especially newer drafters.

Yoss
06-28-2013, 11:21 AM
There is nothing wrong with people value drafting, but having the prices easily available does promote people to do it, especially newer drafters.
So make the option turned off by default.

Xintia
06-28-2013, 11:22 AM
Well of course people are going to "value draft" no matter what, and in the end it IS their money. Anyone can draft however they choose. I just don't think the game should "encourage" it by placing that information at your fingertips during the draft process. In a competitive format, the game itself should at least attempt to promote "proper" drafting.

Yoss
06-28-2013, 11:25 AM
Here's the "correct" thread for this discussion:
Informational Tooltip (link)

odjn
06-28-2013, 11:36 AM
And who are you to say how someone should draft?

... ummm, he's a player with an opinion stating that opinion a'la "IMO." Not trying to start anything, but if you applied this to your post it would look like, "Who are you to attack someone on the forums?"

Yoss
06-28-2013, 11:49 AM
The "IMO" was not a qualifier for the first part of his sentence ("bad bad bad idea"), it was a qualifier for the second part ("ruins the tournament..."). However, your point is still well taken; I should have been kinder with my words.

EntropyBall
06-28-2013, 12:32 PM
I think the way MTGO displays the drafted cards is a pretty good baseline, but I'd like to see Hex add some functionality.

While I wish they would eliminate the option of rare drafting (there are many threads about this already), I think they should have collection info and AH pricing info available, otherwise it just encourages people to run an "AH account" on a second screen or computer during the draft.

Rycajo
06-28-2013, 12:41 PM
The AH value of a card really does not need to be displayed. Adding too many stats, especially stats that don't affect the current task at hand (draft cards to make a deck), will just overload players with information and reduce the fun factor of playing.

In truth, just like a regular draft scenario, if a player is worried about taking value cards, the player should simply research this before hand. I would probably take less than one minute to research and decide which cards are worth drafting for value alone.

Yoss
06-28-2013, 12:42 PM
While I wish they would eliminate the option of rare drafting (there are many threads about this already)
Links? Even with a forum search I don't see those "many threads", but maybe I just don't know what to look for.

1) How could they possibly eliminate rare drafting?
2) Even if you could, why would you?

Yoss
06-28-2013, 12:44 PM
The AH value of a card really does not need to be displayed. Adding too many stats, especially stats that don't affect the current task at hand (draft cards to make a deck), will just overload players with information and reduce the fun factor of playing.
If it's optional and turned off by default, I think you're covered.


In truth, just like a regular draft scenario, if a player is worried about taking value cards, the player should simply research this before hand. I would probably take less than one minute to research and decide which cards are worth drafting for value alone.
There will be hundreds of cards. You're saying you can remember 400 cards and their price info, and how many you own, while still having capacity to pay attention to what you're drafting?

Rycajo
06-28-2013, 12:51 PM
I'm saying that, just like with a physical draft, a player would likely already know the handful of cards that are truly worth any money. Or do you think the list of singles that are worth taking for value alone will exceed typical levels?

But as you say, if the information is optional and turned off by default, that would be fine.

Aradon
06-28-2013, 12:55 PM
There will be hundreds of cards. You're saying you can remember 400 cards and their price info, and how many you own, while still having capacity to pay attention to what you're drafting?

Yeah. I think that I can remember if a card has value, if I'm at all concerned about it. And I think I can remember if I need/want to acquire any cards in particular. If you think otherwise, I think you're overestimating the number of cards that'll be worth money/rare-drafting. Pretty much every common & 90% of the uncommons will be pennies, so you're really just looking at the value of rares. And especially if you're an experienced player, you won't even wonder about the value of some cards (for example, Trial by Faith was recognized by most players as pretty bad in most cases).

Like I said, maybe other players can't keep that straight, but I think a lot of them that are concerned with value would get an idea pretty quickly from browsing the AH. I remember that being the case in MTGO as well. But I was just giving my opinion.

Quasari
06-28-2013, 01:08 PM
Putting the value on the tool tip requires that the system be a commodities market. An auction based market would not work as there will be a lot of variance and would take quite a bit of effort on the system to figure out a market value. I still think that a bid/ask system is a bit unfeasible with how the cards are(in that they are all separate entities, not just x quantity of y...there's a lot with the tech that could go wrong with this system with the amount of data that goes into each card), however thats an argument for another thread. Just pointing out that asking for that on the tooltip makes an assumption on something we aren't sure of.

Devaux
06-28-2013, 01:18 PM
While I don't have a problem with rare/value drafting (they're your packs. its your prerogative) I don't think CZE providing pricing info in the tooltip is a great idea. Seems like a trap for new players. It seems like the sort of feature that an add-on could handle. The people who care could get the add-on and customize to their heart's content. I'm in favor of CZE giving us the cleanest permutation of the interface out of the box.

Hatts
06-28-2013, 01:24 PM
Yeah. I think that I can remember if a card has value, if I'm at all concerned about it. And I think I can remember if I need/want to acquire any cards in particular. If you think otherwise, I think you're overestimating the number of cards that'll be worth money/rare-drafting. Pretty much every common & 90% of the uncommons will be pennies, so you're really just looking at the value of rares. And especially if you're an experienced player, you won't even wonder about the value of some cards (for example, Trial by Faith was recognized by most players as pretty bad in most cases).

Why not use your drafts (especially at the end of packs) to fill out your collection? It's extra hassle to sell your extra commons / uncommons and buy what you are missing. I'd prefer to know if I should draft that common sapphire or common blood when they are all that's left in the deck and I am drafting ruby.

I have horrible memory for this type of thing, why remember numbers when you can look them up? Even better, why look it up when the information could be available to you during the draft? Knowing how many corpseflies I have or the price of a blood harbinger is useless knowledge and shouldn't be retained.

Aradon
06-28-2013, 01:37 PM
I'm not suggesting you have to trade for the rest of your collection, especially if we can turn extras into crafting components instead. It's not too hard to remember which cards you still need, though, not when the choice is presented to you between a handful of cards at the end of a pack.

And I don't mean to say they shouldn't implement the feature. But I do mean to say that I am not interested in it, myself. If there are mostly people like me, then I would say they probably shouldn't implement the feature. But it sounds like there are more people who want the extra information.

Then again, there are a thousand little ways the client could be tweaked to an individual's preference, and every time the discussion comes up, there's basically a side that says, "Just make it optional and off by default, and everything's okay!" Which is true, but that's a lot of development put into very minor/niche features and options. And just think what that option menu would look like :\
I personally like the availability of mods that could be installed separately that can tweak the interface for you, and this seems like a prime candidate.

Banquetto
06-28-2013, 01:38 PM
Links? Even with a forum search I don't see those "many threads", but maybe I just don't know what to look for.

1) How could they possibly eliminate rare drafting?
2) Even if you could, why would you?

I too am curious about this. I haven't seen anything along these lines. I'm not even sure what the phrase "eliminate rare drafting" means. It seems self-contradictory. "Drafting" = you pick cards. "Rare drafting" = you make your decision based on keeping the card, not on what will benefit you in the draft tournament. "Eliminate rare drafting" = ???. How can you eliminate one possible way of decision-making without eliminating the decision??


There will be hundreds of cards. You're saying you can remember 400 cards and their price info, and how many you own, while still having capacity to pay attention to what you're drafting?

There won't be 400 rare and legendary cards, and it's pretty easy to remember that the value of a common card is "zero" and the value of an uncommon card is "so close to zero that who cares?"

Yoss
06-28-2013, 06:40 PM
While I don't have a problem with rare/value drafting (they're your packs. its your prerogative) I don't think CZE providing pricing info in the tooltip is a great idea. Seems like a trap for new players. It seems like the sort of feature that an add-on could handle. The people who care could get the add-on and customize to their heart's content. I'm in favor of CZE giving us the cleanest permutation of the interface out of the box.
Such a feature should be turned OFF by default. Also, I agree about the 3rd party comment (I've commented on at least two prior threads about API availability), but so far we have no idea if an informational API will even be available for 3rd party development. In the absense of an API, we must petition for 1st party development.


Then again, there are a thousand little ways the client could be tweaked to an individual's preference, and every time the discussion comes up, there's basically a side that says, "Just make it optional and off by default, and everything's okay!" Which is true, but that's a lot of development put into very minor/niche features and options. And just think what that option menu would look like :\
I personally like the availability of mods that could be installed separately that can tweak the interface for you, and this seems like a prime candidate.
Excellent points. And so we're back to an old thread topic: Hex API (link). They need to enable 3rd party development for things that are too niche or just weren't thought of.

Hibbert
06-28-2013, 08:12 PM
Links? Even with a forum search I don't see those "many threads", but maybe I just don't know what to look for.

1) How could they possibly eliminate rare drafting?
2) Even if you could, why would you?

The topic of rare drafting seemed to come up repeatedly(thankfully it seems to have gone away), though often in just general drafting threads, or threads discussing free drafting tiers. Here (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=23253) are a few (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=23656) examples. (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24340)

Most of the "solutions" were worse than the "problem" of rare drafting. I use quotes because they weren't really solutions and rare drafting isn't really much of a problem. The truth is that most people are going to draft a money card in a regular draft anyway(because even if you are out to win, a big card can end up funding more drafts without too much opportunity cost to your deck). If people want to draft all the "trash" rares, it has an equal potential for taking a useful card for someone's deck(a trash rare that's great in limited) or freeing up a awesome common bomb, so that's a wash there.

The only real potential problem with rare drafting is that someone who blocks out some free time to spend drafting might end up getting multiple rare drafters that don't stick around to play. That'd be pretty annoying if you were looking forward to some Hex, and ended up sitting in bye matches. Even then, you get the consolation of a much better chance of winning more prizes.

Auriok
06-29-2013, 12:05 AM
More relevant to the draft (and probably already in their intended design) are the layout of the cards you've already picked, arrangeable by mana cost.
I'm less interested in the features listed here. I'm mostly concerned with having information for deckbuilding.


Please no features. Like this!
Dont remove adventange i have over casual players for actually using my memory to remember what i have already picked, what other cards did this booster have and stuff like thath :/