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View Full Version : Slacker Backer Proposition by a KickStarter Backer



Zarien
07-02-2013, 02:09 AM
Many of us have seen numerous threads in regards to the slacker backer option for those who missed out on the benefits of the Kickstarter. Before I go into my discussion, lets review real quick for those unfamiliar, what the slacker backer option provides along with their value placed in parenthesis.

Slacker Backer- Cost=$50


Hex MMO TCG Alpha Invite (Priceless)
1 Starter Deck ($10)
25 Set 1 Booster Packs ($50)
2 Months enrolled in the VIP program ($8)


As you can see, for those who missed the kickstarter, but wish to be part of the early rush of the Hex TCG gameplay, there is still value beyond the alpha invite when you purchase the Slacker Backer option. However, I wish to discuss the possibility of sweetening the deal for slacker backers, without taking away the value of those who backed the game early via the KickStarter.

Disclaimer
Please take note, as I discuss options, that I myself am a Pro-tier/King backer, many of you have seen me on here for months, and I gain nothing out of proposing these options.

So, as many of us have seen, there is obviously a great deal of enthusiasm by people who wish to back the game, but missed out on the KickStarter. Now, there has been discussion among the forums that many feel the Slacker Backer option reward enough, while there has also been discussion among the forums that people worry about alienating new players who barely missed out on the one month timetable. Let us try to find a happy middle ground.

I would like to propose the adding of content to the Slacker Backer option that does not diminish the value of the KickStarter options. I am not proposing content such as Alternate Art cards as discussed in this thread Slacker Backer Thread 1 (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26038)

I am proposing simple additions of content that adds to the value of the Slacker Backer option without changing its monetary value, where people may try to abuse the additions and buy more Slacker Backer options just because of the good deal. Examples of such additions are listed below with reasons attached for being listed.


Slacker Sleeves -Edit: for all backers before launch perhaps?(The addition of a set of sleeves, that maybe joke about the user being a slacker in backing the project, something to have fun with, but allow the backer to show they backed the game, if not right away, but before the people who join at Live launch) Exclusive sleeves seem to be something people wouldn't want, perhaps we could have the same sleeves for all kickstarter backers and slacker backers since we all will have backed the project before launch. Since it's a simple cosmetic addition, but something neat.


Digital Art Book "The Art of Hex" - (This is provided at the $50 range already for kickstarter backers, and does not have a monetary value attached to it since it is a digital PDF file. Again, something neat to spice the backer project, that doesn't really change the value of the kickstarter backers.)


Princess Cory PVE card/with equipment - (This is debatable, if we were fair, this card was never part of the kickstarter deals, and was instead a gift by cory to celebrate his glory in tcg format. I think this is a fun PvE card that could be added to the slacker backer deal. It was a gift to begin with, why not gift it to those who further back the project a little later? Shouldn't we spread the great Princess Cory's glory with others? If we wanted to make it fairer, maybe take the equipment away or something. Also, this card, along with chest of Hex, does not fall within the Kickstarter Exclusive agreement)


1 Free Booster draft - (Here me out, even the Squire tier gets 3 free booster drafts, why not add 1 free booster draft to the slacker backer option. It provides people an opportunity to test the limited formats of PvP, and adds to the player base to tournaments and the community. We as KickStarter backers stand only to gain by introducing those who might never have played a TCG to the PvP side, since they were willing to still back the project before Alpha/Beta.)



Look, these are just ideas. I'm not proposing adding all of them, but I think it would be wise of us as a community to support the idea of proposing to Cryptozoic to maybe sweeten the deal for Slacker Backers. Listed above is the minimum I think that could be added to sweeten the deal, and obviously you could possibly add a mercenary card or other such additions.We don't lose anything from adding these simple additions, we gain more players who feel as if they are getting more value for their early backing, and we as a community prosper.

Just consider the ideas proposed, propose additions of your own, and give constructive feedback on why you think this could work and why you think we shouldn't add to it. As a backer myself, I feel that none of these options would diminish the value of my early Kick Starter backing but I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts on the matter.

Thank you for your time in reading my wall of text and I appreciate any feedback.

EDIT: Purple feedback on the idea from another thread referencing this one found HERE (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26038&page=4)

keldrin
07-02-2013, 02:16 AM
The Chest-O-Hex card that was to a bonus for the t-shirt purchase, kinda falls into the same category as the Princess Cory card. It wasn't part of the original kickstarter. Was not added for reaching a stretch goal. It was a gift, after they decided to remove it from being given with t-shirt purchase.
A purchase, I might add, that could have been made by a slacker backer, to give them 1 exclusive card, if it hadn't been seperated from the t-shirt purchase.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 02:20 AM
The Chest-O-Hex card that was to a bonus for the t-shirt purchase, kinda falls into the same category as the Princess Cory card. It wasn't part of the original kickstarter. Was not added for reaching a stretch goal. It was a gift, after they decided to remove it from being given with t-shirt purchase.
A purchase, I might add, that could have been made by a slacker backer, to give them 1 exclusive card, if it hadn't been seperated from the t-shirt purchase.

Yeah chest of hex kind of falls into the same category as cory. I figured giving at least the cory would be deemed fair, but I honestly would be fine if players received the chest as well. These are cards I felt should be a widely given thing due to their more fun PvE nature than any real value attached to them.

Shadowelf
07-02-2013, 02:41 AM
Slacker Sleeves -(The addition of a set of sleeves, that maybe joke about the user being a slacker in backing the project, something to have fun with, but allow the backer to show they backed the game, if not right away, but before the people who join at Live launch)


Digital Art Book "The Art of Hex" - (This is provided at the $50 range already for kickstarter backers, and does not have a monetary value attached to it since it is a digital PDF file. Again, something neat to spice the backer project, that doesn't really change the value of the kickstarter backers.)


Princess Cory PVE card/with equipment - (This is debatable, if we were fair, this card was never part of the kickstarter deals, and was instead a gift by cory to celebrate his glory in tcg format. I think this is a fun PvE card that could be added to the slacker backer deal. It was a gift to begin with, why not gift it to those who further back the project a little later? Shouldn't we spread the great Princess Cory's glory with others? If we wanted to make it fairer, maybe take the equipment away or something. Also, this card, along with chest of Hex, does not fall within the Kickstarter Exclusive agreement)


1 Free Booster draft - (Here me out, even the Squire tier gets 3 free booster drafts, why not add 1 free booster draft to the slacker backer option. It provides people an opportunity to test the limited formats of PvP, and adds to the player base to tournaments and the community. We as KickStarter backers stand only to gain by introducing those who might never have played a TCG to the PvP side, since they were willing to still back the project before Alpha/Beta.)



1)Totally agree slacker backers deserve their own sleeves
2)Agreed; Artbook doesn't cost them nothing, giving it to slacker backers is a nice move
3)Agree with Keldrin on this; this reward isn't tied to KS, and i can't see why they wouldn't give it
4)Sounds reasonable;

If i were to add one proposal, that would have been an exclusive merc, the slacker goblin (for example). This will up doations since ur not only attracting new ppl, but i bet there are a lot of KS backers that might buy a copy

Banquetto
07-02-2013, 03:46 AM
1 Free Booster draft - (Here me out, even the Squire tier gets 3 free booster drafts, why not add 1 free booster draft to the slacker backer option. It provides people an opportunity to test the limited formats of PvP, and adds to the player base to tournaments and the community. We as KickStarter backers stand only to gain by introducing those who might never have played a TCG to the PvP side, since they were willing to still back the project before Alpha/Beta.)



This, in particular, I think is a good idea.

Encouraging more people to try out tournament PvP is a good thing for everyone; a free draft is a nice addition to the pack ($7 face value extra onto the $50 pack); and as you say, all the Kickstarter backers get multiple free drafts - which, iirc, were added as stretch goals, so no real reason to object to sharing the love.

blakegrandon
07-02-2013, 04:19 AM
I'm all for doing a slightly better launch bundle.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the kickstarter exclusives are exclusive and why they aren't for offer anymore, and I already have my GK.

The thing is, if you look at say a Collectors edition of a game that is released "traditionally" and then compare it to what the slacker backer offers, it does kind of fall short in the realm of shiny things that they're giving people.

Remember, this is a 100% digital game, there are no boxes to produce, no shipping to take into account, and the game isn't even in alpha yet. I believe they should sweeten the slacker backer significantly(without bringing it to the levels of the kickstarter backers) if they want to push a LOT more of them.

I think what everyone fails to realize is that 2.5 million dollars does not mean they should sit down and call it a day when it comes to pushing income in a free to play game. 2.5 million dollars seems like a lot, but that gets blown through really quickly and they could easily spend 10x that on marketing, staffing, server/game improvements, etc.

I see no reason not to sweeten the Slacker backers and any "Pre-orders" for those that want to follow the game and reward them for waiting, if the kickstarter had been the equivalent to a collectors edition at release, then yes, the slacker backer could be seen as the standard edition.

In before the people thinking we're advocating that the slacker backer=kickstarter bonuses and in before the people that don't understand or care that more players > current # of players.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 04:35 AM
I'm all for doing a slightly better launch bundle.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the kickstarter exclusives are exclusive and why they aren't for offer anymore, and I already have my GK.

The thing is, if you look at say a Collectors edition of a game that is released "traditionally" and then compare it to what the slacker backer offers, it does kind of fall short in the realm of shiny things that they're giving people.

Remember, this is a 100% digital game, there are no boxes to produce, no shipping to take into account, and the game isn't even in alpha yet. I believe they should sweeten the slacker backer significantly(without bringing it to the levels of the kickstarter backers) if they want to push a LOT more of them.

I think what everyone fails to realize is that 2.5 million dollars does not mean they should sit down and call it a day when it comes to pushing income in a free to play game. 2.5 million dollars seems like a lot, but that gets blown through really quickly and they could easily spend 10x that on marketing, staffing, server/game improvements, etc.

I see no reason not to sweeten the Slacker backers and any "Pre-orders" for those that want to follow the game and reward them for waiting, if the kickstarter had been the equivalent to a collectors edition at release, then yes, the slacker backer could be seen as the standard edition.

In before the people thinking we're advocating that the slacker backer=kickstarter bonuses and in before the people that don't understand or care that more players > current # of players.

Yeah I'm definitely not advocating turning the Slacker Backer into a Kickstarter 2.0 deal where everyone wants to back at that level. I'm only advocating, like you also said, that we just sweeten the deal a little. Adding a few shiny things, like sleeves/a merc or corey card, with maybe a free draft isn't really much. But, it adds enough that people who back at the slacker backer level won't feel completely left out because they missed the project by a day or two, they still get a great deal (but not a kickstarter level deal) and we all win as a community for increasing our playerbase and helping the newer backers feel more included at the start of the beta.

Kingrags
07-02-2013, 04:56 AM
1)Totally agree slacker backers deserve their own sleeves
2)Agreed; Artbook doesn't cost them nothing, giving it to slacker backers is a nice move
3)Agree with Keldrin on this; this reward isn't tied to KS, and i can't see why they wouldn't give it
4)Sounds reasonable;

If i were to add one proposal, that would have been an exclusive merc, the slacker goblin (for example). This will up doations since ur not only attracting new ppl, but i bet there are a lot of KS backers that might buy a copy

Love the slacker goblin idea. I'm sure a few kickstarter backers would get it as well and it's nice to feel like you got something exclusive and special.

hammer
07-02-2013, 05:05 AM
As others have stated I think adding the Digital Art Book "The Art of Hex" to the slacker backer is a great idea-
This would mean anybody that backed at $50+ would recevie a copy. Since it is not tradeable it will not have a monetary value attached and the digital release should be easy to accomodate. More importantly I dont think the Art Book was ever badged as being exclusive to the Kickstarter backers. Seems like a great option.
In terms of Sleeves - What about a set of sleeves which all backers (kickstarter and Slackers) receive with something related to experiencing Alpha. As a momento somthing like a cool with the following text "Here since Alpha"

Daken
07-02-2013, 05:31 AM
As being a Slacker Backer myself I am bias as to what comes of this thread. From my personal perspective when you look at the values offered in the current Slacker Backer model you get a great deal and I couldn't pass that up. To add more incentives and rewards would be a nice touch (I mean who doesn't want more free stuff).
But thank you for creating threads, idea, and conversations about how to make this community and game better. It is unique to see constructive ideas and happiness in a forums setting these days.
So for now I'm going to sit back and watch what you Kickstarter guys would like to see added.

Skirovik
07-02-2013, 06:07 AM
As I have said in previous threads, I am all for giving Slacker Backers something extra. Heck, I'm even donating 25 booster packs to the cause. (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25664)

However, I feel strongly against anything that would make me feel like I need to purchase a Slacker Backer myself. The exclusive sleeves are fine, I even agreed with that in another thread. Adding an exclusive merc is something I am definitely against though. After spending as much as my income would allow on my current pledge, I do not want to feel like I have to spend more money on another pledge before the game's release. Adding a merc would do that not only for me, but I fear for many others. This is not what you should be asking for.

The OP's ideas are all brilliant and I cannot recommend them enough. But you have to draw the line somewhere and I feel mercs are on the wrong side of that line.

I hope this post didn't come across as too negative. I honestly do want to encourage more Slacker Backers.

Shadowelf
07-02-2013, 06:19 AM
As I have said in previous threads, I am all for giving Slacker Backers something extra. Heck, I'm even donating 25 booster packs to the cause. (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25664)

However, I feel strongly against anything that would make me feel like I need to purchase a Slacker Backer myself. The exclusive sleeves are fine, I even agreed with that in another thread. Adding an exclusive merc is something I am definitely against though. After spending as much as my income would allow on my current pledge, I do not want to feel like I have to spend more money on another pledge before the game's release. Adding a merc would do that not only for me, but I fear for many others. This is not what you should be asking for.

The OP's ideas are all brilliant and I cannot recommend them enough. But you have to draw the line somewhere and I feel mercs are on the wrong side of that line.

I hope this post didn't come across as too negative. I honestly do want to encourage more Slacker Backers.

I only proposed as a means to attract more ppl or collect more money. But fear not, they aren't that greedy and they have already proven that

Skirovik
07-02-2013, 06:22 AM
I only proposed as a means to attract more ppl or collect more money. But fear not, they aren't that greedy and they have already proven that

I think the focus should be on "more players" rather than "more money". In terms of the Slacker Backer, they both come to the same conclusion, but I would rather not strain the current backers. I'm glad CZE aren't that greedy, that's why I backed as much as I could. :D

blakegrandon
07-02-2013, 06:52 AM
I think the focus should be on "more players" rather than "more money". In terms of the Slacker Backer, they both come to the same conclusion, but I would rather not strain the current backers. I'm glad CZE aren't that greedy, that's why I backed as much as I could. :D

Players=Money.

The more you give players for their money the more money AND players you get.

It's a really simple equation. CZE is a gaming company, not a non-profit that once they collect 2.5 million can sit back on their laurels.

My hope is that they'll do a "Collector's Edition" at launch for those that missed the Kickstarter, not for me, because I won't need it, but for those that didn't hear about the game within the ONE month time frame that it was available.

For the record I missed 3 out of the 4 weeks of the kickstarter because I was out of town, people could easily be away from the internet for months(think of troops being deployed), and to ignore them as potential players/money because they "have enough" is short-sighted.

I and others personally feel that the slacker backer could use a boost given that there is no physical distribution, it's purely digital, and the game isn't even in alpha.

Dollar value priority should be:
Kickstarter>Slacker Backer>Collectors edition release>standard release>Free to play.

I'm glad CZE isn't "greedy" but I don't want to see them out of business in a few years because they didn't monetize the game and inject fresh blood.

Part of staying healthy is offering enticing preorders, getting new blood whether online or via brick and mortar stores, and advertising.

You can "advertise" a game across the internet, but human nature craves incentives and "deals", using loss leaders in digital products should be a no brainer, companies do the same thing with physical products all day long and it works.

Xtopher
07-02-2013, 07:42 AM
I'd actually prefer Crypto wait to make any changes to slacker backer until after alpha starts. I think we've got plenty of people for an alpha test. Further, I haven't seen any numbers on how many slacker backers they've already sold. If they've sold many, even more reason to hold off.

Hatts
07-02-2013, 07:59 AM
I'd actually prefer Crypto wait to make any changes to slacker backer until after alpha starts. I think we've got plenty of people for an alpha test. Further, I haven't seen any numbers on how many slacker backers they've already sold. If they've sold many, even more reason to hold off.

I agree, I think people are making a big assumption that the slacker backer is not selling well, and another in thinking it needs more value.

That said I am all for adding in existing KS bonuses that don't cost CZE money or time. The art book and the book by the mystery author are both good examples, they are already paid for by the KS backers and can sweeten the pot for free.

ZeroCool
07-02-2013, 08:14 AM
For me, I think those who were late to the game and are now "Slacker Backers" are still getting a good deal. I don't think anything needs to be added.

Those of us who backed the project when it was first posted are a bit more entitled to our rewards. The early bird catches the worm...

Xintia
07-02-2013, 08:20 AM
Sure the KS rewards are drool worthy. Yeah I'm mad at myself for not pitching in when I could. But I wasn't willing to put my money on the line at the time, and so I missed out. I certainly won't say no if CZE decides to pitch some more stuff my way as a "Slacker," but I feel like I'm getting my money's worth for what I'm putting in. No amount of perks can cover up a poor product so I would much rather they focus on making Hex the best game it can be instead of pursuing more "pre-orders" by coming up with new or more benefits. Whether you KS'd, "slacked off," or waited for the full release, no one will keep playing if the game isn't fun. :)

blakegrandon
07-02-2013, 08:23 AM
For me, I think those who were late to the game and are now "Slacker Backers" are still getting a good deal. I don't think anything needs to be added.

Those of us who backed the project when it was first posted are a bit more entitled to our rewards. The early bird catches the worm...

I'd agree with this argument if there was a huge media campaign prior to the launch of the kickstarter, or if it was after launch and the "Collectors edition" had sold out.

It's silly to say that If you didn't get in Pre-alpha you're "late" to the "party" when the party hasn't even started!

This is coming from someone that got a GK, I want to see Hex flourish, and part of that requires offering enough incentives to hit the buy/preorder/take all my money buttons.

The beauty of Hex is that it's a purely digital game, there is no physical media, which means a $50 price tag should be able to carry a LOT more content than a traditional $50-60 price tag.

Again:


Dollar value priority should be:
Kickstarter>Slacker Backer>Collectors edition release>standard release>Free to play.

The thing is everyone talks about 10k backers like that's a huge number, Hex should be aiming for a 500k opening day launch if they don't want to become another niche game.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe Hex will listen to all the people opposed to opening up the club of exclusivity, but I hope Hex explodes in popularity and you do that by bringing in lots of fresh blood, not by saying you're late to the party.

ZeroCool
07-02-2013, 08:34 AM
I'd agree with this argument if there was a huge media campaign prior to the launch of the kickstarter, or if it was after launch and the "Collectors edition" had sold out.

It's silly to say that If you didn't get in Pre-alpha you're "late" to the "party" when the party hasn't even started!

This is coming from someone that got a GK, I want to see Hex flourish, and part of that requires offering enough incentives to hit the buy/preorder/take all my money buttons.

The beauty of Hex is that it's a purely digital game, there is no physical media, which means a $50 price tag should be able to carry a LOT more content than a traditional $50-60 price tag.

Again:


Dollar value priority should be:
Kickstarter>Slacker Backer>Collectors edition release>standard release>Free to play.

The thing is everyone talks about 10k backers like that's a huge number, Hex should be aiming for a 500k opening day launch if they don't want to become another niche game.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe Hex will listen to all the people opposed to opening up the club of exclusivity, but I hope Hex explodes in popularity and you do that by bringing in lots of fresh blood, not by saying you're late to the party.

The HEX Kickstarter did well over 2 million dollars so regardless of the media campaign/any promotion being done people still knew about it. I'm not saying people are late to the party, they're just on time for it while the thousands of backers were the ones who are early to it. Personally, I would of liked one of the slots that was full, but it was full therefore I couldn't get it. Just like when the Kickstarter ended, people couldn't back anymore until they created the Slacker Backer which I think is more than generous.

Those who backed the game via Kickstarter shouldn't be tempted to also put a Slacker Backer pledge in. Doesn't seem right to me.

blakegrandon
07-02-2013, 08:45 AM
The HEX Kickstarter did well over 2 million dollars so regardless of the media campaign/any promotion being done people still knew about it.

You do realize that kickstarter is actually a pretty vocal minority when it comes to the amount of people actually using it right? Kickstarter has only 610,000 likes on facebook, and their user base isn't as large as they'd lead you to believe. Also consider there are TONS of people that don't follow kickstarter, and kickstarter doesn't necessarily represent a majority or even a good amount of people a product would cater to.

Saying people "knew" about it is clearly demonstratively false given the amount of people that learned about it AFTER the kickstarter ended.


I'm not saying people are late to the party, they're just on time for it while the thousands of backers were the ones who are early to it.

Except, no one here is asking that the slacker backers get what the rest of the party is getting. We're asking that they get another slice of cake because they're still EARLY to the party.



Personally, I would of liked one of the slots that was full, but it was full therefore I couldn't get it. Just like when the Kickstarter ended, people couldn't back anymore until they created the Slacker Backer which I think is more than generous.
Those who backed the game via Kickstarter shouldn't be tempted to also put a Slacker Backer pledge in. Doesn't seem right to me.

I'm not arguing to give them stuff kickstarter backer's haven't gotten or have gotten, I'm not saying to make it so tempting that those of us that backed the kickstarter feel we HAVE to get the slacker backer pledge.

I'm stating that appealing to MORE people is a good thing, and giving more value on a purely digital game is easy.

I'm saying that even with 2.5 million dollars that's peanuts compared to Hex's potential and that Cryptozoic is a For Profit company designed to provide long-term value.

Hatts
07-02-2013, 08:48 AM
Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe Hex will listen to all the people opposed to opening up the club of exclusivity, but I hope Hex explodes in popularity and you do that by bringing in lots of fresh blood, not by saying you're late to the party.

Correct me if i am wrong but I haven't seen anyone ask CZE to close the slacker backers to keep their access to the alpha and beta exclusive.

You keep accusing CZE of sitting back on their laurels and creating a club of exclusivity without offering any proof of them doing so. In fact it's demonstrably not so, by the fact that they are offering the slacker backer with discounts that won't be available at launch and early access to the game.

I don't disagree with giving more to the slacker backers, but I do disagree that this is a problem that CZE needs to solve and I think you are jumping to conclusions without data to back it up.

blakegrandon
07-02-2013, 08:54 AM
Correct me if i am wrong but I haven't seen anyone ask CZE to close the slacker backers to keep their access to the alpha and beta exclusive.

I've seen kickstarter backers that are adamantly against slacker backer's getting anything else. Which I disagree with on the basis that it's not even launch time yet.



You keep accusing CZE of sitting back on their laurels and creating a club of exclusivity without offering any proof of them doing so. In fact it's demonstrably not so, by the fact that they are offering the slacker backer with discounts that won't be available at launch and early access to the game.

No, I keep seeing backers say that CZE doesn't need more money, I keep seeing people act like kickstarter backer's are the only ones CZE should listen to.

The way I look at it is pretty simple, if Slacker backer rewards NOW are the best that people can purchase, then what incentives will they offer at launch?

If you look at a traditional retail launch would you qualify slacker backer as being worth $50 once you take away the retail distribution and store cuts?


I don't disagree with giving more to the slacker backers, but I do disagree that this is a problem that CZE needs to solve and I think you are jumping to conclusions without data to back it up.

It's up to CZE to decide whether it's a problem that CZE needs to solve, that doesn't mean we can't voice our opinions on it.

I'm basing my beliefs off of watching hundreds of game launches either flop or succeed, the ones that succeed are the ones that bring in as many people as possible.

incitfulmonk21
07-02-2013, 08:55 AM
I am torn between the ideas.

While I certainly don't mind adding more to the slacker backer option. I also think CZE at some point has to draw the line at it's generosity (Which has been endless even in the current slacker backer option.)

If the community continues to get everything it want's it is inevitable at some point they will want something they can't have and their will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

We saw this happen in the KS campaign when the community already had so much and decided to flame and cry about an addition that had not direct benefit to them (Even though it really did).

I know one day I won't be able to have all the cards and sleeves but would prefer for it not to happen before the game even launches so my only dissenting argument to the thread would be no to sleeves the book (only because it was a KS offer and they said it would never be available again) and the mercenary.

Certainly yes to chest o hex as it was part of the still ongoing t-shirt. And yes to a free draft because every good drug dealer knows the first hit's on the house :).

blakegrandon
07-02-2013, 09:02 AM
While I certainly don't mind adding more to the slacker backer option. I also think CZE at some point has to draw the line at it's generosity (Which has been endless even in the current slacker backer option.)


I agree completely, but I do feel there needs to be a balance between being stingy and giving away the house.

If we look at what slacker backer gives:
$50- Donation – Slacker Backer
HEX MMO TCG alpha invite (Fall 2013) as a special thank you for contributing .
1 Starter Deck (in addition to your free Starter Deck at account creation)
25 Set 1 Booster Packs
2 months of VIP Program (1 pack per week, access to an exclusive tournament and deck tools)

For a fully digital game with no physical distribution that does anything but WOW me personally.

Maybe they should consider a Slacker Backer Deluxe edition? IE a collectors edition for those that missed out on kickstarter?

Obviously it would be inferior to the kickstarter tiers, but it could provide a bit more while providing CZE with more income up-front.

Remember, for a Free to Play Game, offering incentives digitally will hook more people, which means a larger player base, which means more money for CZE, fewer queues for people waiting to play, and more of a community.

I'm still waiting for the guy to assume that I missed the kickstarter... I'm purely looking at the slacker backer option from the view of people that will have missed out on the pre-alpha kickstarter party.

Rydavim
07-02-2013, 09:22 AM
I backed during the Kickstarter, and even ended up being able to snipe by desired tier. Just want to start with that, as Slacker Backers of the community might be slightly bias on this issue.

I think everything the OP @blakegrandon (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26041&page=3) suggested is completely reasonable. Over the past several weeks, I've seen many threads of people who discovered Hex after the Kickstarter had ended. These posts range from disappointment, to anger, to entitlement, and some were more reasonable than others.

The Slacker Backer is still a good deal, especially since you get to play the game sooner. But they won't really get anything 'special' for backing. I don't feel like any of the OP's suggestions diminish my investment or value, nor do they go back on Cryptozoic's promise to keep KS rewards exclusive to KS. Obvious Cryptozoic has no obligation to listen to this thread, and some of the reactions here are a bit disappointing to see from the community. The more players we get, the bigger and better the launch will be. Giving people a little extra motivation to jump onto ship Hex early helps everyone, and doesn't hurt anyone.

+1 blakegrandon

Hatts
07-02-2013, 09:24 AM
For a fully digital game with no physical distribution that does anything but WOW me personally.

I think your GK bias is showing here. I know 2 people personally who thought the slacker backer is a good deal and bought in and there is a stickier thread at the top of the forum filled with people who agree.

There is plenty of evidence that the slacker backer is doing well, the burden of proof is on you now and your opinion is not enough.

Shadowelf
07-02-2013, 09:34 AM
No amount of perks can cover up a poor product so I would much rather they focus on making Hex the best game it can be instead of pursuing more "pre-orders" by coming up with new or more benefits. Whether you KS'd, "slacked off," or waited for the full release, no one will keep playing if the game isn't fun. :)

This just needs to be highlighted :)

The only reason i want slacker backer to be as attractive as it can be, is that i want as many ppl playing the game as possible; that will be a win to me, not that i was lucky to back KS earlier than some. So i don't mind to 'hand over' some of my KS rewards, if that means that there will be half a million ppl playing at launch. And i would gladly pay $50 to get a slacker backer as well, but that's just me i guess

Xtopher
07-02-2013, 09:42 AM
I think if Crypto gets a lower than expected response to the slacker backer option, they will act to make it more appealing. If Crypto feels their overall player numbers are too low once alpha starts, again, they will act to attract people to the game. Ditto for closed beta. Ditto for open beta or launch.

We have no idea how many players at one time their system can support right now. What would be really bad is to get too many people and a negative, unplayable, unfun experience. They may never regain customers they lose from that.

So, I'm prepared to assume, for the time being, that someone at Crypto is thinking about these things and making the necessary choices/decisions for the good of all of us and them. We don't have enough information to dictate policy.

blakegrandon
07-02-2013, 09:43 AM
I think your GK bias is showing here. I know 2 people personally who thought the slacker backer is a good deal and bought in and there is a stickier thread at the top of the forum filled with people who agree.

There is plenty of evidence that the slacker backer is doing well, the burden of proof is on you now and your opinion is not enough.

I'm looking at it objectively and comparing the slacker backer to other game's releases, frankly I just don't see a wow factor in the slacker backer. It has nothing to do with my GK.

What evidence do you have that the slacker backer is doing well?

I don't HAVE to prove anything, I don't HAVE to lobby for additional perks for slacker backers, just like I don't HAVE to give away two boxes of my GK's packs.

Your anecdotal evidence is not enough to convince me that slacker backer is fine as is, I personally have talked to people that look at the slacker backer and aren't impressed, and they didn't know about the kickstarter.

The slacker backer is still a Pre-order for a game that isn't even in alpha. What are they going to offer for launch, a package that is of less "value" than the cost to buy it?

Hatts
07-02-2013, 10:04 AM
I
So, I'm prepared to assume, for the time being, that someone at Crypto is thinking about these things and making the necessary choices/decisions for the good of all of us and them. We don't have enough information to dictate policy.

Well said, I agree completely. Everything I've seen so far shows that CZE is both generous to their backers while at the same time very cognizant of what they need to do to remain solvent and keep Hex running for as long as possible. Those two things are often at odds, and they have consistently made the right decisions in my books.

ossuary
07-02-2013, 10:26 AM
As a KS backer myself, with no "skin in the game," so to speak, I have no problem with the Slacker Backer option being slightly upped in value.

I disagree on the idea of custom sleeves, or custom mercs, as these would be things the earlier KS backers wouldn't inherently have access to, and I don't think that's fair to the people who found and believed in Hex first.

That being said, anything that we can give to Slacker Backers that does not detract from the KS backers, such as giving them the artbook PDF, and the Princess Cory and Chest-O-Hex cards, I am completely in favor of.

I also really like the idea of giving them all a free booster draft. As has been pointed out, even a $20 KS backing would get you THREE drafts, so I think it's reasonable to give the latecomers ONE for free. This doesn't harm any KS backer, and on the whole I think it would be even better for CZE's business... statistically speaking, a non-zero percent of people who try the free draft will like it, and become paying PVP players as a result, that might otherwise not have ever tried the tournaments / drafts. It would probably have a good return on investment for CZE to offer this, and might even increase the number of Slacker Backer pledges for those people who are on the fence. :)

+1!

Turtlewing
07-02-2013, 10:34 AM
I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.

I think the Slacker Backer is a good enough preorder deal that if I had missed the KS I'd buy it at slacker backer now, so I don't see it needing to be improved (remember no amount of sweetening the deal will completely eliminate the "I missed out no fair" pouting without going far enough to start it's own "you said these were exclusive how dare you make them available again" rage).

On the other hand the OP's suggestion does a good job of adding perceived value without honing in on any KS exclusives so all of those ideas would seem like fair game if CZE decided to sweeten the pot.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 10:52 AM
As a KS backer myself, with no "skin in the game," so to speak, I have no problem with the Slacker Backer option being slightly upped in value.

I disagree on the idea of custom sleeves, or custom mercs, as these would be things the earlier KS backers wouldn't inherently have access to, and I don't think that's fair to the people who found and believed in Hex first.

That being said, anything that we can give to Slacker Backers that does not detract from the KS backers, such as giving them the artbook PDF, and the Princess Cory and Chest-O-Hex cards, I am completely in favor of.

I also really like the idea of giving them all a free booster draft. As has been pointed out, even a $20 KS backing would get you THREE drafts, so I think it's reasonable to give the latecomers ONE for free. This doesn't harm any KS backer, and on the whole I think it would be even better for CZE's business... statistically speaking, a non-zero percent of people who try the free draft will like it, and become paying PVP players as a result, that might otherwise not have ever tried the tournaments / drafts. It would probably have a good return on investment for CZE to offer this, and might even increase the number of Slacker Backer pledges for those people who are on the fence. :)

+1!

I can definitely understand everyone's sentiment in regard to exclusive sleeves, which is why I feel like sleeves for all backers before launch might be something they could do. At the minimum I think the other additions, like you said, make the slacker backer stand out more and give a better deal, without detracting from kick starter backers value.

JaFa
07-02-2013, 10:52 AM
I am a slacker backer, as I found out about HEX a week after the Kickstarter ended. When I first saw the slacker backer option I wasn't that impressed, and I'm still not. My reaction was... meh. I ONLY decided to back the project because of that thread with the community driven offer for some free boosters. It was an impulse buy based on the good vibe I got from the game. If I stumbled upon HEX now, I'd probably pass on the slacker backer deal and wait for release.

I think people need to start thinking of HEX as a computer game, not a physical TCG or MtG. The competition in computer games and the digital world is fierce. I could take my $50 to the Steam summer sales and get a bunch of established ready-to-play games. Right now all HEX is is promises. There are no reviews, no player youtube vids, no metascores, nothing. Why should anybody gamble on a phantom game without anything to entice them?

Chiany
07-02-2013, 10:58 AM
There are no reviews, no player youtube vids, no metascores, nothing. Why should anybody gamble on a phantom game without anything to entice them?

Because they believe in the company behind it.
I've played several Crypto games, even some tcg's from them, and I believe they can make this a success.

I wouldn't have pledged as much if there were no "free" goodies for me in it, but I still would have plegded alot.

Nthanel
07-02-2013, 11:09 AM
The problem , I think, with this idea is that if they sweeten the pot a little more and then more people join they start asking for them to sweeten the pot a little more, and so on. Its just people who come after will never be satisfied and the real question is where does it stop?

Zarien
07-02-2013, 11:16 AM
The problem , I think, with this idea is that if they sweeten the pot a little more and then more people join they start asking for them to sweeten the pot a little more, and so on. Its just people who come after will never be satisfied and the real question is where does it stop?

Honestly? I don't feel that will be the case. Its not like we see a dozen threads a day about how bad the slacker backer deal is. Many of the slacker backers know that they are still getting a deal, and want alpha access as well. I don't think making the slacker backer option a little more enticing to new backers/current slacker backers, without hurting the kickstarter backer values, is going to create some hungry unsatisfied horde of backers craving more.

Will there be one or two asking? Yes, there always is. But I think that for most of the slacker backer people they will be happy with any additional content. Heck, it might even endear people more to cryptozoic that aren't as familiar with their awesome kindness and amazing company values already.

Gwaer
07-02-2013, 11:35 AM
I think it's more of an issue of CZE trying to get away from the incredible rewards they offered to KS backers.

Basically, they were too nice to us, they don't want people to get the impression that they will just give their stuff away, as the lowers the value of the goods. The S-Backer deal is more in line with a regular promotion. The KS stuff is over, never will deals even remotely as sweet as that be had again.

But that doesn't mean the community can't step up, I'm going to be raffling a full singleton set of KS exclusives to S-Backers, or 200 set 1 packs, others have already donated a great many packs themselves to sweeten the pot for them. Everyone in this thread who is for increasing bonuses to them should donate some of your own stuff in the S-backer sticky thread.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 11:54 AM
I think it's more of an issue of CZE trying to get away from the incredible rewards they offered to KS backers.

Basically, they were too nice to us, they don't want people to get the impression that they will just give their stuff away, as the lowers the value of the goods. The S-Backer deal is more in line with a regular promotion. The KS stuff is over, never will deals even remotely as sweet as that be had again.

But that doesn't mean the community can't step up, I'm going to be raffling a full singleton set of KS exclusives to S-Backers, or 200 set 1 packs, others have already donated a great many packs themselves to sweeten the pot for them. Everyone in this thread who is for increasing bonuses to them should donate some of your own stuff in the S-backer sticky thread.

I agree with you with them wishing to distance themselves from that "giving" vibe. I think in this case though, offering a booster draft benefits cryptozoic as much as it benefits us. 1 booster draft gives the person a taste, and provides a catalyst to hook slacker backers into drafting more, so crypto profits in the end while also displaying their generosity. And the Hex of Art pdf file is something I felt should be shared more anyways. It's art, its digital, and it doesn't cost anything.

Gwaer
07-02-2013, 11:57 AM
That 'its digital so it doesn't cost anything' line would be the death of this game.

blakegrandon
07-02-2013, 12:04 PM
That 'its digital so it doesn't cost anything' line would be the death of this game.

Can you please quote where anyone's said it's digital so it doesn't cost anything?

I've stated that because it's a digital distribution it costs significantly less than a physical distribution when there are no boxes, no discs, no art books, no retailer cut, no shipping, and no other "physical" costs.

If a game costs X to make and is 100% digital, it should be able to include more digital perks than a game that cost X to make but that has physical rewards.

Saying the game is free to play is great, but it goes against human nature which is that people tend to become more attached to things that they have invested in.

I just hope Hex snags enough people to make the game thrive when it comes out and I stand by my belief that the slacker backer looks "ok" and doesn't wow me, independent of the fact that I got a GK.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 12:09 PM
Can you please quote where anyone's said it's digital so it doesn't cost anything?

I've stated that because it's a digital distribution it costs significantly less than a physical distribution when there are no boxes, no discs, no art books, no retailer cut, no shipping, and no other "physical" costs.

If a game costs X to make and is 100% digital, it should be able to include more digital perks than a game that cost X to make but that has physical rewards.

Saying the game is free to play is great, but it goes against human nature which is that people tend to become more attached to things that they have invested in.

I just hope Hex snags enough people to make the game thrive when it comes out and I stand by my belief that the slacker backer looks "ok" and doesn't wow me, independent of the fact that I got a GK.

I think in this case, he is referencing me saying the art book is digital. However, I am referencing content already created, in a pdf file, for kickstarters. Tacking that content onto the slacker backer, is literally just sending an already created digital pdf file, which in this process, wouldn't cost much, beyond the time to set up the automated delivery.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 12:29 PM
Purple feedback about this thread response HERE (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26038&page=4)

Hibbert
07-02-2013, 01:04 PM
As an alternative to adding anything to the slacker backer, what if there were some new exclusives that could be earned by playing the alpha? There will be a post alpha wipe, but that doesn't stop them from flagging accounts that complete certain alpha testing actions. Something like play X games or complete the arena PvE dungeon. Then when the beta/retail rolls around, those accounts get the alpha exclusives.

It'd be nice to reward the people that help out with the testing. Plus the achievements could be time intensive enough that people who bought up a ton of accounts to resell later wouldn't be able to get them on all the accounts. It might suck for anyone that ends up missing alpha(Late August-Early September is gonna be a bad time for most students), but since it wasn't a promised bonus when they donated it's not like a bait-and-switch or anything.

Gwaer
07-02-2013, 01:11 PM
As an alternative to adding anything to the slacker backer, what if there were some new exclusives that could be earned by playing the alpha? There will be a post alpha wipe, but that doesn't stop them from flagging accounts that complete certain alpha testing actions. Something like play X games or complete the arena PvE dungeon. Then when the beta/retail rolls around, those accounts get the alpha exclusives.

It'd be nice to reward the people that help out with the testing. Plus the achievements could be time intensive enough that people who bought up a ton of accounts to resell later wouldn't be able to get them on all the accounts. It might suck for anyone that ends up missing alpha(Late August-Early September is gonna be a bad time for most students), but since it wasn't a promised bonus when they donated it's not like a bait-and-switch or anything.
I'm entirely for this.

ramseytheory
07-02-2013, 02:34 PM
As a non-slacker backer:

I actually very much like the idea of exclusive sleeves - Producer doesn't seem to come with Immortal sleeves, so it's already established that it's going to be impossible for us to ever get all of them. (And I believe Cory has said sleeves are one of the few areas he's giving himself full creative freedom for, so we can expect things like sleeves for turning up to cons, rare sleeves in primal chests and so on - they're definitely a fun thing rather than a collector-friendly thing.)

The free draft is also an excellent idea - I'm sure benefit of getting people hooked on draft would outweigh the cost to CZE. The Princess Cory and Chest of Hex cards would be nice additions as well, since they were never billed as Kickstarter exclusives. I don't think the artbook was, either, although that's presumably a more expensive product so CZE might want to hold back.

Put me down on the list of people who wouldn't want an exclusive mercenary addition, though - that would make me feel pressured to get slacker backer on top of backing, which I think is the main thing to avoid.

majin
07-02-2013, 05:42 PM
i just realized a very BIG problem with this thread. if the slacker backer had some added perks, i might be tempted to buy one or two which will make my wallet cry again :( :( :(

Zarien
07-02-2013, 06:13 PM
i just realized a very BIG problem with this thread. if the slacker backer had some added perks, i might be tempted to buy one or two which will make my wallet cry again :( :( :(

Lol, I did address that in my original post. So far the perks we've discussed don't really increase the value of the slacker backer, but add some neat additions. Your post is why many of us have discussed not adding a mercenary or exclusive slacker backer only sleeve, and why I edited my post to include all alpha/beta backers to get the sleeves.

Skirovik
07-02-2013, 06:14 PM
Players=Money.

The more you give players for their money the more money AND players you get.

It's a really simple equation. CZE is a gaming company, not a non-profit that once they collect 2.5 million can sit back on their laurels.

My hope is that they'll do a "Collector's Edition" at launch for those that missed the Kickstarter, not for me, because I won't need it, but for those that didn't hear about the game within the ONE month time frame that it was available.

For the record I missed 3 out of the 4 weeks of the kickstarter because I was out of town, people could easily be away from the internet for months(think of troops being deployed), and to ignore them as potential players/money because they "have enough" is short-sighted.

I and others personally feel that the slacker backer could use a boost given that there is no physical distribution, it's purely digital, and the game isn't even in alpha.

Dollar value priority should be:
Kickstarter>Slacker Backer>Collectors edition release>standard release>Free to play.

I'm glad CZE isn't "greedy" but I don't want to see them out of business in a few years because they didn't monetize the game and inject fresh blood.

Part of staying healthy is offering enticing preorders, getting new blood whether online or via brick and mortar stores, and advertising.

You can "advertise" a game across the internet, but human nature craves incentives and "deals", using loss leaders in digital products should be a no brainer, companies do the same thing with physical products all day long and it works.

At first I thought my post was not well written, since you completely missed what I was saying, but then I read a few more pages of this thread and noticed you seem to not completely read/comprehend posts before replying and arguing against them. I like your passion, but your posts aren't always as helpful as they could be.

Back on-topic, I definitely like the free draft idea and am happy to see in the other thread that CZE are considering the Princess Cory card and Chest o' Hex (I think it was those two).

Not sure how I feel on the Alpha bonuses though. Depending on when Alpha begins, I might either get plenty of time to play it or not much at all.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 06:29 PM
At first I thought my post was not well written, since you completely missed what I was saying, but then I read a few more pages of this thread and noticed you seem to not completely read/comprehend posts before replying and arguing against them. I like your passion, but your posts aren't always as helpful as they could be.

Back on-topic, I definitely like the free draft idea and am happy to see in the other thread that CZE are considering the Princess Cory card and Chest o' Hex (I think it was those two).

Not sure how I feel on the Alpha bonuses though. Depending on when Alpha begins, I might either get plenty of time to play it or not much at all.

I wouldn't be too worried about the alpha bonus idea that was discussed. It's not something I see CZE doing, and it really doesn't relate to the subject at hand, though I appreciated the input of the idea from the poster. Also, yes, the thread you were talking about with the CZE feedback was talking about both the Princess Cory card and Chest o' Hex, which, as a minimum like we all discussed, I think we can agree should be added and would be really cool of them to do.

Xtopher
07-02-2013, 06:44 PM
Have faith that if Crypto wants more players than they have currently for alpha, they will make marketing decisions that will make that happen. This is not the right time to attract a bunch more players to the game and I really don't understand why anyone thinks it necessary that we have more people for an untested and unproven game.

Beta will be the time to have some nifty offers to bring more people in, not alpha. Allow the most enthusiastic of us (I think almost everyone here is tied for first place, in that regard), who will stick with the game because of their investment and not quit because of an initially negative alpha experience work to get the game in good order and THEN push to bring more people in.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 06:54 PM
Have faith that if Crypto wants more players than they have currently for alpha, they will make marketing decisions that will make that happen. This is not the right time to attract a bunch more players to the game and I really don't understand why anyone thinks it necessary that we have more people for an untested and unproven game.

Beta will be the time to have some nifty offers to bring more people in, not alpha. Allow the most enthusiastic of us (I think almost everyone here is tied for first place, in that regard), who will stick with the game because of their investment and not quit because of an initially negative alpha experience work to get the game in good order and THEN push to bring more people in.

I think you're missing out on a little information or something my friend. Alpha is only going to be about two weeks long, tops, and only tests a few PvE functions, then we go straight into beta. I'm not sure what your discussion has to do about what we're discussing. The only reason someone brought up alpha, was because they were discussing the hope that CZE give a title or some silly cosmetic reward for testing alpha, which also has nothing to do with what this thread is about. This thread is only about the possibility of making slacker backer a little more rewarding for those who backed at that level, without hurting our kickstarter value.

We're discussing this because we want to embrace slacker backers and welcome them to the community, but not have them feel left out entirely because they missed out on a month long deal. This isn't about marketing or drawing more people in. This is about diminishing the rift felt by some between slacker backers and kickstarters, because in the end, every backer is an important part of our community, and those of us who backed early, want those who back the game later to come into the community pumped and ready to try what we all know is going to be an amazing game. Which is why we've been discussing simple ways of doing that. Please everybody try to keep to the topic at hand, thank you.

felmare
07-02-2013, 07:00 PM
I think you're missing out on a little information or something my friend. Alpha is only going to be about two weeks long, tops, and only tests a few PvE functions, then we go straight into beta. I'm not sure what your discussion has to do about what we're discussing. The only reason someone brought up alpha, was because they were discussing the hope that CZE give a title or some silly cosmetic reward for testing alpha, which also has nothing to do with what this thread is about. This thread is only about the possibility of making slacker backer a little more rewarding for those who backed at that level, without hurting our kickstarter value.

We're discussing this because we want to embrace slacker backers and welcome them to the community, but not have them feel left out entirely because they missed out on a month long deal. This isn't about marketing or drawing more people in. This is about diminishing the rift felt by some between slacker backers and kickstarters, because in the end, every backer is an important part of our community, and those of us who backed early, want those who back the game later to come into the community pumped and ready to try what we all know is going to be an amazing game. Which is why we've been discussing simple ways of doing that. Please everybody try to keep to the topic at hand, thank you.
well said. i do agree that the slacker perks are lack luster to the KS. i personally am seriously stoked about this game and wish that i had people tell me about the kickstarter 2 days earlier...

Xtopher
07-02-2013, 07:13 PM
It's overly optimistic to believe alpha will only last for a couple weeks. They don't even have a working game yet we all can play. I don't know how many alpha tests you've participated in, but alpha is not the right time for what you're proposing.

There's plenty of time to embrace late comers and it will be more effective to do so during beta.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 07:22 PM
It's overly optimistic to believe alpha will only last for a couple weeks. They don't even have a working game yet we all can play. I don't know how many alpha tests you've participated in, but alpha is not the right time for what you're proposing.

There's plenty of time to embrace late comers and it will be more effective to do so during beta.

Once again my friend, I think you should go back and read a couple of the threads that discuss questions like found herehttp://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=23180
Or maybe go back and watch some of the streams on the Hex twitch stream found here http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg/b/404773267

It's been publicly known, since before the kickstarter ended that the alpha is only going to last about two weeks. It's been stated already that the alpha will start about two weeks before the beta, so likely late august, and then the beta is supposed to start in september.

What we're proposing, are additions to features that are going to be implemented in a short 2 months, so now IS the time to be discussing the opportunities here to alter what the slacker backer provides for those who back the game from now until then, and those who have already purchased the slacker backer option.

While I really appreciate your enthusiasm in discussion in this thread, please take the time to read some of the sticky pages and then try to keep the discussion of this thread on-topic. Thank you.

Xtopher
07-02-2013, 07:47 PM
I'm very much on topic. Alpha may start in August. Beta may start in September, but there are no guarantees. This is not the time for adding attractiveness to attract more players. Be patient, wait until the game is load tested and we've had an oppotunity to test as many of the most complex card interactions that we can and then make the push for packages to attract new players.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 08:06 PM
I'm very much on topic. Alpha may start in August. Beta may start in September, but there are no guarantees. This is not the time for adding attractiveness to attract more players. Be patient, wait until the game is load tested and we've had an oppotunity to test as many of the most complex card interactions that we can and then make the push for packages to attract new players.

Sir, you are very much not on topic. The topic at hand is not the alpha or beta test. It is what I originally posted here http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26041

Also, once again, please do your research and actually go through those streams, or if you have, please review them. Because the CZE team themselves discuss the time windows for alpha and beta.

Xtopher
07-02-2013, 08:20 PM
Unfortunately, the issue is more complex than the simplistic argument you're putting forth. You don't like my points because they don't mesh with the narrative of the future you've convinced yourself will occur. Instead of dealing with reality, it's easier for you to paint me as being ignorant instead of trying to adjust your myopic vision to the realities of producing a successful online tcg launch.

If you'd set your ego aside you would see that those that disagree with you share your vision for a successful game. You might take a moment to think instead of essentially spamming the same message relentlessly.

majin
07-02-2013, 08:23 PM
Lol, I did address that in my original post. So far the perks we've discussed don't really increase the value of the slacker backer, but add some neat additions. Your post is why many of us have discussed not adding a mercenary or exclusive slacker backer only sleeve, and why I edited my post to include all alpha/beta backers to get the sleeves.

you got a good point. i really want others to feel they are still special as they are still backing a game that doesn't exist yet. even if they aren't KS backers, they are still putting their faith on CZE which is why I believe they should be rewarded for this.

i do love the alpha reward idea for doing quests / playing drafts / arena as I love doing quests on GW2 and I even proposed a similar idea on an old thread.

at least we got a blue reply on the other thread and all we can do is wait on what CZE thinks about our ideas.

Zarien
07-02-2013, 08:30 PM
Unfortunately, the issue is more complex than the simplistic argument you're putting forth. You don't like my points because they don't mesh with the narrative of the future you've convinced yourself will occur. Instead of dealing with reality, it's easier for you to paint me as being ignorant instead of trying to adjust your myopic vision to the realities of producing a successful online tcg launch.

If you'd set your ego aside you would see that those that disagree with you share your vision for a successful game. You might take a moment to think instead of essentially spamming the same message relentlessly.

I honestly can't tell if you're being obstinate or trolling. Once again, and this is the last time i'll address you, because now you're just becoming toxic to the thread, this thread has NOTHING TO DO WITH ALPHA OR BETA. This thread is ONLY to discuss the possibility of enriching the slacker backer deal for backers who were late to the table, nothing about the marketing of the actual deal, or about the timetable of alpha and beta. If you're upset because I pointed out the common knowledge about CZE's plans for alpha testing and beta, then I apologize, but this is their statement, not mine.

There is literally nothing complex about a statement issued from Cory and the CZE development team stating their timeframe for alpha and beta testing. That subject, and what you're talking about though, doesn't have anything to do with this thread. If you continue to feel strongly about this and wish to discuss the timetable and whatever in the world you think this thread is discussing, please, make a new thread, and i'll gladly continue the discussion there with others. This thread though, is once again, and I'm reiterating it because you don't seem to be getting it, is only about the slacker backer rewards.

Like I said, that's all I have to say to you about it in this thread, thank you.

Xtopher
07-02-2013, 08:36 PM
Like I said, that's all I have to say to you about it in this thread, thank you.
Much appreciated. :)

Monarch
07-02-2013, 09:11 PM
I really don't see why players are objecting to Slackers getting their own sleeves. Granted, I can see the art department objecting because it does mean more work for them. But the players? I don't get it.

Slacker sleeves should just be absolutely hideous. Unique, of course. But still, something like taking the default card-back, and maybe folding a corner, giving it a couple scratches, use it in your digital bike-spokes for a week. Then the KS folks don't feel too robbed, and the Slackers still get something a little fun. Sleeves like the backs of those commons you threw in a box in the garage, which has since flooded and had a BBQ set on top of it.

Shadowelf
07-03-2013, 03:35 AM
I really don't see why players are objecting to Slackers getting their own sleeves. Granted, I can see the art department objecting because it does mean more work for them. But the players? I don't get it.


They object because they don't want to feel forced to buy slacker backer due to sleeves (i'm all in for it however and i wouldn't mind)

Zarien
07-03-2013, 08:39 AM
They object because they don't want to feel forced to buy slacker backer due to sleeves (i'm all in for it however and i wouldn't mind)

What shadow said. People who are completionists don't want to feel like they have to buy it in order to collect an exclusive sleeve. I personally don't have issue with this, because CZE already said we won't ever be able to collect everything, and sleeves are just that, sleeves. But, I do understand why people feel this way and I can see their line of reasoning. I think sleeves for all backers would be cool as well, but thats an art department thing and a time consumer, so we will have to wait and see what CZE says later.

CrownZero
07-03-2013, 09:36 AM
1)Totally agree slacker backers deserve their own sleeves
2)Agreed; Artbook doesn't cost them nothing, giving it to slacker backers is a nice move
3)Agree with Keldrin on this; this reward isn't tied to KS, and i can't see why they wouldn't give it
4)Sounds reasonable;

If i were to add one proposal, that would have been an exclusive merc, the slacker goblin (for example). This will up doations since ur not only attracting new ppl, but i bet there are a lot of KS backers that might buy a copy

I agree on all counts.

Zarien
07-03-2013, 12:38 PM
you got a good point. i really want others to feel they are still special as they are still backing a game that doesn't exist yet. even if they aren't KS backers, they are still putting their faith on CZE which is why I believe they should be rewarded for this.

i do love the alpha reward idea for doing quests / playing drafts / arena as I love doing quests on GW2 and I even proposed a similar idea on an old thread.

at least we got a blue reply on the other thread and all we can do is wait on what CZE thinks about our ideas.

Exactly, people who are backing the game right now are still backing in the blind. Maybe not to the extent some of us backed with the kickstarter, but they are still putting their faith into the games success (rightfully so) and rewarding them with a few additions to the slacker backer that doesn't diminish the kickstarter, certainly doesn't hurt us. I too look forward to a reply.

Shadowelf
07-03-2013, 12:51 PM
Exactly, people who are backing the game right now are still backing in the blind. Maybe not to the extent some of us backed with the kickstarter, but they are still putting their faith into the games success (rightfully so) and rewarding them with a few additions to the slacker backer that doesn't diminish the kickstarter, certainly doesn't hurt us. I too look forward to a reply.

My sentiments exactly :)

ramseytheory
07-03-2013, 01:49 PM
People objecting to not being able to collect all the sleeves without paying $50 seems quite strange to me, given that to get all the sleeves you would already need to have paid $10,000 for the Producer sleeves. (And I don't think they come with the Immortal sleeves, so add another $5,000 for that.) I think it's fairly clear at this point that sleeves are designed as a fun extra rather than a collect-a-thon, and that trying to get all of them really isn't going to be feasible or fun. So why not let the slacker backers in on it?

Yoss
07-03-2013, 01:57 PM
Sleeves for Slacker Backers! I've been saying it for weeks (link)!

cavench
07-03-2013, 02:23 PM
People objecting to not being able to collect all the sleeves without paying $50 seems quite strange to me, given that to get all the sleeves you would already need to have paid $10,000 for the Producer sleeves. (And I don't think they come with the Immortal sleeves, so add another $5,000 for that.) I think it's fairly clear at this point that sleeves are designed as a fun extra rather than a collect-a-thon, and that trying to get all of them really isn't going to be feasible or fun. So why not let the slacker backers in on it?

Yes Immortal has its own exclusive sleeve, and if it is tradeable it is worth a LOT more than producer's sleeve. There are 14 producers but ... THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE immortal.

Edit: If I'm that immortal, I would be the champion of tradeable sleeve campaign.

Zarien
07-03-2013, 03:31 PM
People objecting to not being able to collect all the sleeves without paying $50 seems quite strange to me, given that to get all the sleeves you would already need to have paid $10,000 for the Producer sleeves. (And I don't think they come with the Immortal sleeves, so add another $5,000 for that.) I think it's fairly clear at this point that sleeves are designed as a fun extra rather than a collect-a-thon, and that trying to get all of them really isn't going to be feasible or fun. So why not let the slacker backers in on it?

You make some good points, which is why I initially put it down as an idea. I think making the sleeve for all backers kind of makes everyone happy, but I would love to see some kind of funny torn up slacker backer sleeves as a joke or something for people to display as well.

incitfulmonk21
07-03-2013, 03:41 PM
Yes Immortal has its own exclusive sleeve, and if it is tradeable it is worth a LOT more than producer's sleeve. There are 14 producers but ... THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE immortal.

Edit: If I'm that immortal, I would be the champion of tradeable sleeve campaign.

The producers get all sleeves below their tier. This includes immortal. Sorry to disappoint.

Edit: apparently I am wrong. Who knew :).

IndigoShade
07-03-2013, 04:33 PM
Producer's each get an exclusive sleeve that they design for themselves. Even if there's 14 producers, each one will have a sleeve that is unique.

Shadowelf
07-03-2013, 05:21 PM
Producer's each get an exclusive sleeve that they design for themselves. Even if there's 14 producers, each one will have a sleeve that is unique.

Yeap and the same is true for primal and immortal tiers

Also all sleeves Dragon Lord and up are exclusive to their respective tiers

ossuary
07-03-2013, 07:27 PM
I hadn't thought of that.

Okay, given this "new" evidence, I would reverse my opinion on the Slacker sleeves and say let them have their own custom sleeves... but they should be ugly, kind of embarrassing sleeves to denote their late status. ;)

Monarch
07-03-2013, 07:32 PM
They object because they don't want to feel forced to buy slacker backer due to sleeves (i'm all in for it however and i wouldn't mind)

That's what I don't understand, though. Nobody will be able to get all the sleeves without an extreme amount of money (as someone mentioned above, they would need Producer/Immortal) AND they would need to win every single tournament (as Cory said that sleeves may be a common reward for such achievements).

But, just because I don't understand it doesn't make it invalid. That's why my suggestion was to make the Slacker Backer sleeves a bit of a parody or joke. Make 'em ugly! They're Slackers! But still give them something, IMO.

johnnysmith
07-04-2013, 03:23 AM
Actually to be fair to the late comer they should open up the kickstarter option with maybe a 10% late comer fee. I really don't see any harm other then getting more backers for the game. The current slacker option is a joke even if they double up. After reading thru all the comments I am proposing the following:

1. Slacker Sleeves
2. Digital Art Book
3. Slacker only PVE card
4. 3 month of free PVP drafting
5. Hex MMO TCG Alpha/Beta Invite
6. 2 x Starter Deck (Slacker only theme)
7. 25 Set 1 Booster Packs
8. 3 Months enrolled in the VIP program

majin
07-04-2013, 03:53 AM
1. Slacker Sleeves
2. Digital Art Book
3. Slacker only PVE card
4. 3 month of free PVP drafting
5. Hex MMO TCG Alpha/Beta Invite
6. 2 x Starter Deck (Slacker only theme)
7. 25 Set 1 Booster Packs
8. 3 Months enrolled in the VIP program

#3 => won't probably happen as it will cause issues with KS backers
$4 => impossible, even king backers $120 don't get this perk

Shadowelf
07-04-2013, 04:12 AM
Actually to be fair to the late comer they should open up the kickstarter option with maybe a 10% late comer fee. I really don't see any harm other then getting more backers for the game. The current slacker option is a joke even if they double up. After reading thru all the comments I am proposing the following:

1. Slacker Sleeves
2. Digital Art Book
3. Slacker only PVE card
4. 3 month of free PVP drafting
5. Hex MMO TCG Alpha/Beta Invite
6. 2 x Starter Deck (Slacker only theme)
7. 25 Set 1 Booster Packs
8. 3 Months enrolled in the VIP program

You know i would have been all over this offer if it was real :)

Zarien
07-04-2013, 09:05 AM
Actually to be fair to the late comer they should open up the kickstarter option with maybe a 10% late comer fee. I really don't see any harm other then getting more backers for the game. The current slacker option is a joke even if they double up. After reading thru all the comments I am proposing the following:

1. Slacker Sleeves
2. Digital Art Book
3. Slacker only PVE card
4. 3 month of free PVP drafting
5. Hex MMO TCG Alpha/Beta Invite
6. 2 x Starter Deck (Slacker only theme)
7. 25 Set 1 Booster Packs
8. 3 Months enrolled in the VIP program

yeah #3 and #4 won't ever happen and are unreasonable. An exclusive pve card that kickstarters couldn't have access to would create a crap storm. And 3 months of free drafts, assuming this is at the minimum once a week deal, is still a $84 value, which stacks on top of the booster packs. That's what we we dicussing when we said not changing the monetary value of the slacker deal to a great extent that it becomes an attractive option for kickstarters to back a bunch. You could argue for 3 free drafts, with the minimum of 1.

Adding to the vip program part of the deal isn't the right direction either. Kickstarter backers don't even get access to the free vip portion of the backing until the Champion $85 tier, so increasing the amount of months for the slacker backer isn't really the right realistic direction that they would change.

2 starter decks instead of 1 I think is okay, since at the $50 tier for kickstarter you get 4 starter decks. I still think the slacker backers should get Princess Cory and Chest of Hex. The digital art book I still agree with along with some kind of dirty/torn joke slacker sleeves would be awesome.

One thing you have to remember, is they don't HAVE to give anything extra. They received their backing way beyond what they expected for kickstarter. The slacker backer tier is still a good value, it's just not the a kickstarter value, but they are still running a business and they don't gain much from making it similar to a kickstarter value when they will sell all of those packs/drafts etc to you anyways at launch. Because who are we kidding, you wouldn't be here on the forums if you weren't already sold enough to play the game.

However, that's why we aren't beseeching them to make the slacker backer deal as good as a kickstarter deal (because kickstarter people are crazy, and will triple-quadrouple back such a deal if it existed still). Instead we're asking to just sweeten the deal a little with stuff that won't hurt us kick starters or their future profit, simple stuff, but stuff you would still really love to have. Let's try to aim more for achieving that first.

QuartZ
07-04-2013, 01:50 PM
I love the ideas, adopt the slackers!
In regards of the digital artbook, wouldn't be easier if someone just upload it and make it avaiable to everybody? Or we are not allowed to do this?

Zarien
07-04-2013, 01:52 PM
I love the ideas, adopt the slackers!
In regards of the digital artbook, wouldn't be easier if someone just upload it and make it avaiable to everybody? Or we are not allowed to do this?

Obviously thats an option through other means, but I doubt you'll see much support behind it, and it will be frowned upon. I think everyone would rather just receive it without having to feel guilty about the work around.

Shadowelf
07-04-2013, 01:53 PM
I love the ideas, adopt the slackers!
In regards of the digital artbook, wouldn't be easier if someone just upload it and make it avaiable to everybody? Or we are not allowed to do this?

I bet that this will be against some ToS found somewhere (uploading), but you know u can always email it.

ramseytheory
07-04-2013, 01:56 PM
I love the ideas, adopt the slackers!
In regards of the digital artbook, wouldn't be easier if someone just upload it and make it avaiable to everybody? Or we are not allowed to do this?

I believe they're planning to put the artbook on sale later, so this would be piracy.

Prophecy
07-04-2013, 03:05 PM
Hmm I got slacker backer read the sticky got excited about the community and all that, this thread makes the community seem even more awesome looking out for and watching the backs of people that missed out on the initail deals. Whats the art book I d be tempted to pony up money for it if they ship to europe.

Banquetto
07-04-2013, 03:06 PM
yeah #3 and #4 won't ever happen and are unreasonable. An exclusive pve card that kickstarters couldn't have access to would create a crap storm. And 3 months of free drafts, assuming this is at the minimum once a week deal, is still a $63 value, which stacks on top of the booster packs.

Isn't 3 months of free drafting 12-13 drafts (depending on whether a month is a month or four weeks), at a value of $84-$91?

Shadowelf
07-04-2013, 03:17 PM
Isn't 3 months of free drafting 12-13 drafts (depending on whether a month is a month or four weeks), at a value of $84-$91?

Yeap 4 drafts a month is $28 (4x$7) x 3 (months) = $84

Zarien
07-04-2013, 04:02 PM
Isn't 3 months of free drafting 12-13 drafts (depending on whether a month is a month or four weeks), at a value of $84-$91?

Yeah I was tired and typing on my Ipad when I initially wrote that, in my head all of a sudden instead of 4 weeks in a month it was 3 weeks. Brain wasn't functioning properly, had just woken up lol.

johnnysmith
07-04-2013, 09:27 PM
If you are worry about the current KS backer then upgrade them too. I believe lots of KS backer will donate for the slacker also if you make it much more attractive. Don’t just throw us a bone give us something more. It will benefit everyone in long term if you upgrade the entire backer.

Skirovik
07-04-2013, 09:40 PM
If you are worry about the current KS backer then upgrade them too. I believe lots of KS backer will donate for the slacker also if you make it much more attractive. Donít just throw us a bone give us something more. It will benefit everyone in long term if you upgrade the entire backer.

As I've said before, Slacker Backer should not be something KS Backers feel obligated to buy into. It should be something that new players who missed out on the KS can benefit from.

Most (if not all) KS backers put in as much money as they possibly could (I know I did). I think it would be unfair to encourage spending more money at this point. Wait till the game is out at least...

That said, hopefully everyone is aware of how supportive I am of the Slacker Backers and hope more join in. I think the art book is the best idea yet and encourage other KS backers to help support the Slacker Backers in this thread (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25664).

Zarien
07-04-2013, 10:02 PM
As I've said before, Slacker Backer should not be something KS Backers feel obligated to buy into. It should be something that new players who missed out on the KS can benefit from.

Most (if not all) KS backers put in as much money as they possibly could (I know I did). I think it would be unfair to encourage spending more money at this point. Wait till the game is out at least...

That said, hopefully everyone is aware of how supportive I am of the Slacker Backers and hope more join in. I think the art book is the best idea yet and encourage other KS backers to help support the Slacker Backers in this thread (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25664).
Well said.

AstaSyneri
07-05-2013, 12:18 AM
As I've said before, Slacker Backer should not be something KS Backers feel obligated to buy into. It should be something that new players who missed out on the KS can benefit from.

Most (if not all) KS backers put in as much money as they possibly could (I know I did). I think it would be unfair to encourage spending more money at this point. Wait till the game is out at least...

That said, hopefully everyone is aware of how supportive I am of the Slacker Backers and hope more join in. I think the art book is the best idea yet and encourage other KS backers to help support the Slacker Backers in this thread (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25664).

Excellent summary.

Yes, give Slackers the Art book, a free draft and Slacker Sleeves, but include the latter in the KS tiers as well.

Many KS backers will feel tapped out and asking them to back yet another time would generate a world of bad feelings, imho.

Zarien
07-05-2013, 09:10 AM
Excellent summary.

Yes, give Slackers the Art book, a free draft and Slacker Sleeves, but include the latter in the KS tiers as well.

Many KS backers will feel tapped out and asking them to back yet another time would generate a world of bad feelings, imho.

Lol yeah, no matter how good a deal the slacker backer was, i'm already tapped out. I spent everything I had backing the game already lol.

Shadowelf
07-05-2013, 09:29 AM
Lol yeah, no matter how good a deal the slacker backer was, i'm already tapped out. I spent everything I had backing the game already lol.

Heh same here but u know i can't get enough of hex :p

Zarien
07-07-2013, 01:43 PM
We didn't see any feedback this friday update. I wonder if we might hear of anything by next friday.

Shadowelf
07-07-2013, 02:49 PM
We didn't see any feedback this friday update. I wonder if we might hear of anything by next friday.

Hmm yeah they said they will look into it, so they either still looking into it, or done looking and the result is radio silecne aka no

ossuary
07-07-2013, 03:27 PM
Things take time. Patience, grasshopper. :)

They'll let us know when they have something to say. I certainly wouldn't want them to rush into a decision flippantly. Better to wait for a well thought out response after they've had a chance to carefully weigh the options and ramifications.

Zarien
07-16-2013, 05:40 PM
Yeah, I mean it doesn't really affect me. I'm already heavily invested money wise into the game and couldn't afford more if I wanted to. I would just like to here a "yes, we're just trying to figure out how" or "no, we don't think this is for the best" answer so we could drop it altogether. Though with as many threads I see about "where can I download the alpha?" it would probably still get brought up a ton anyways >_>. It's as if people are averse to reading a sticky nowadays.

MrSalty
07-16-2013, 07:27 PM
slacker backers chose not to fund the kickstarter and that was your choice. they are being nice enough to even offer the slacker backer option. you dont deserve anything else. stop with all the threads.

Gorgol
07-16-2013, 07:38 PM
slacker backers chose not to fund the kickstarter and that was your choice. they are being nice enough to even offer the slacker backer option. you dont deserve anything else. stop with all the threads.
Your forum name suits you

Zarien
07-16-2013, 07:45 PM
slacker backers chose not to fund the kickstarter and that was your choice. they are being nice enough to even offer the slacker backer option. you dont deserve anything else. stop with all the threads.

I love troll posters like this that have very few posts, and don't read the original post to know the actual content of whats being discussed. You couldn't even read far enough to realize i'm not a slacker backer, i'm a pro-tier backer and i'm posting for the benefit of them, not myself. But please, continue to troll with your "salty" nonconstructive posts. Cory has already professed how much he "loves" you guys.

Shadowelf
07-17-2013, 03:38 AM
I love troll posters like this that have very few posts, and don't read the original post to know the actual content of whats being discussed. You couldn't even read far enough to realize i'm not a slacker backer, i'm a pro-tier backer and i'm posting for the benefit of them, not myself. But please, continue to troll with your "salty" nonconstructive posts. Cory has already professed how much he "loves" you guys.

Please don't discourage him ; trolls are unhealthy for the forums but you deprieve mods from their sport :D And its troll hunting season as Cory mentioned :)

ossuary
07-17-2013, 05:23 AM
I find it particularly amusing that someone with only 3 posts says "stop with all the threads," especially since this thread in particular was dead and gone off the main page for a week and a half until someone randomly and arbitrarily resurrected it yesterday to add a "yeah, me too" post. ;)

LioAstartes
07-17-2013, 06:21 AM
second that, well said =)

Atomzed
07-19-2013, 05:01 PM
Necro....

because I want to thank Zarien for starting the OP. CZE did sweeten the deal on the slacker backer :) Proof that CZE reads the forums and listens to the ideas, and will consider them seriously (whether they take it whole-sale or change it to fit their vision, is another story).

Shadowelf
07-19-2013, 05:25 PM
Yeap we gave them our support with the KS and they have not forgotten; not only that they love to constantly prove it :)

And yeah a big thanks to Zarien for his initiative

TAEGA
07-19-2013, 05:57 PM
I would also like to thank Zarien for this thread and to all others who supported it. To me this is what a community is all about.

thanks again everyone. :D

In2gamez
07-22-2013, 07:08 AM
slacker backers chose not to fund the kickstarter and that was your choice. they are being nice enough to even offer the slacker backer option. you dont deserve anything else. stop with all the threads.

Yeps we didn want to fund the kickstarter. Not in any chance there could have been some other circumstance why some people including me could not fund the kickstarter, yeah like you said we DIDN want to fund it. Yups we dont deserve it. glad the other 99.8% are more understanding.

Shadowelf
07-22-2013, 07:29 AM
Yeps we didn want to fund the kickstarter. Not in any chance there could have been some other circumstance why some people including me could not fund the kickstarter, yeah like you said we DIDN want to fund it. Yups we dont deserve it. glad the other 99.8% are more understanding.

Heh don't concern yourself with him, it 's not worth it. ;)

In2gamez
07-23-2013, 03:55 AM
Heh don't concern yourself with him, it 's not worth it. ;)

I wont but i just cant stand it sometimes ;)

Justinkp
07-23-2013, 05:00 AM
I thought there had been a thread that suggested pretty much the same modifications to the slacker backer that CZE implemented.

Good job Zarien!

ossuary
07-23-2013, 05:16 AM
Yeah, basically they took almost all of Zarien's suggestions and added exactly that. Except for the free booster draft, and custom "slacker" sleeves (which I can see, because a free draft = money, and sleeves = work).

Shadowelf
07-23-2013, 05:17 AM
I thought there had been a thread that suggested pretty much the same modifications to the slacker backer that CZE implemented.

Good job Zarien!

Yeap you remember correctly here it is http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26038&highlight=throw+bone

Zarien
07-23-2013, 05:38 AM
Yeap you remember correctly here it is http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26038&highlight=throw+bone

That was the thread that caused me to post a more fleshed out thread. I referenced it, but my biggest issue with that thread was that we weren't getting anywhere because we kept suggesting stuff like AA cards that CZE wouldn't likely approve. So I was way too bored and saw we hadn't discussed the art book and princess cory card stuff much and decided to propose that along with some of the other ideas I had seen floating around. A shame the booster draft didn't get added.

Shadowelf
07-23-2013, 06:01 AM
That was the thread that caused me to post a more fleshed out thread. I referenced it, but my biggest issue with that thread was that we weren't getting anywhere because we kept suggesting stuff like AA cards that CZE wouldn't likely approve. So I was way too bored and saw we hadn't discussed the art book and princess cory card stuff much and decided to propose that along with some of the other ideas I had seen floating around. A shame the booster draft didn't get added.

You took the initiative on expanding on the other thread by posting one of your own, the community corresponded and the purpose was accomplished; you don't need to clarify or even apologize (maybe you aren't but your post has that tone). Anyways kudos to the both of you :)