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View Full Version : Before I dive in: Some questions & a rant...



Spraek
07-10-2013, 10:23 AM
Hey guys! First, let me say that the game looks great. I think I've read/listened to just about everything related to this game over the last day or so. That said, I'm sure missed a few things. If someone can please answer my questions below, I would greatly appreciate it.

1) How are "overpowered" cards going to be handled (ie Vancleef/JTMS)? I know the ultimate goal is to not create them, but sometimes things slip through. Since this is a digital TCG, does CZE just plan to ban the card in competitive play (similar to physical card games), or are they going to nerf/adjust the card? I'm not a collector/speculator but I do tend to play competitively so I am fairly concerned about this (I tend to pick up playsets of good cards I like even if I don't use them right away) I'm especially concerned if the answer is to nerf/adjust cards.

2) Are we going to be able to gift packs/decks to friends? I assume the answer is yes, but I think I missed it.

3) Are there race specific cards in PvP? I've read that in PvP cards are cross-faction so you can build whatever you want. Does this mean that there will be less options for Tribal deck building in PvP? Or when they say cross faction are they specifically referring to the PvP champion you choose to play as?

Finally my rant (sorry!). It's actually pretty petty: Can we please change the name of the "Slacker Backer" to something else? The name really irks me. I'm a civilian contractor and was out of country for the duration of the KS event. Not only do I miss out on all of the sweet KS rewards/bonuses, I have to back the game with substandard contents and a semi-insulting name. :(

Avaian
07-10-2013, 10:31 AM
1) The current form, is a ban of the card in all formats it is causing problems in.

2) You will be able to buy and then trade them directly to your friends, and there is a Mail system.

3) We do not have a full list of the cards for set 1, however there are cards that only target a certain race currently. The Mushwocky (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Mushwocky,-The/86) only eats Shin'hare, there are other examples such as dwarfs. It will not be surprising to see cards that say Underworld troops you control get +1/+1 or something similar.

lordjuzam
07-10-2013, 10:31 AM
1, CZE has said they would ban a card instead of nerfing it. And have said it's one of their top priorities that this won't happen (an overpowered card).

2, afaik you can trade with friends, so yes you can gift them cards. So in short Yes

3, no card has been shown yet in pvp that is faction-exclusive. To my knowledge it are not really the cards that are faction bound but the races of your hero in PvE. So in short, No.

Hopefully this helped, and yeah slacker backer isn't my favorite name either.

Xenavire
07-10-2013, 10:36 AM
I think slacker backer is a standard name used by other kickstart projects - Hex could do something unique though, like a TCG reference - Second main phase backer doesn't have the best ring to it though.

Spraek
07-10-2013, 10:39 AM
Thanks for the quick response guys, I really appreciate it. I'm glad that the answers I received were exactly what I was expecting and looking for. Makes me more comfortable and excited for the game. And as I said, the rant is kinda petty but I had to get it off my chest, haha.

Xenavire
07-10-2013, 10:45 AM
Thanks for the quick response guys, I really appreciate it. I'm glad that the answers I received were exactly what I was expecting and looking for. Makes me more comfortable and excited for the game. And as I said, the rant is kinda petty but I had to get it off my chest, haha.

The rant is not petty, it is a poor name. CZE just followed a trend though, so they might change the name, if people express a desire for a new name.

Gwaer
07-10-2013, 10:46 AM
There will be race specific cards if the previews of talent trees remain in their current form, some of the talents add cards to your deck that you can only get with that particular race class combo at at least that level. It's possible those talents have changed though.

(That only matters in PVE however)

Xintia
07-10-2013, 12:01 PM
I AM a slacker. So the term doesn't bother me so much. I just cry over the KS perks I lost. :p

Shadowelf
07-10-2013, 12:09 PM
The rant is not petty, it is a poor name. CZE just followed a trend though, so they might change the name, if people express a desire for a new name.

Yeap it is enough that those ppl lost the chance that KS presented; calling slackers is something meh. Late bird backers (like KS' early bird tier) sounds somewhat better. I don't think its too offensive though to deserve a change; it only adds salt to injury for some

Yoss
07-10-2013, 01:33 PM
Finally my rant (sorry!). It's actually pretty petty: Can we please change the name of the "Slacker Backer" to something else? The name really irks me. I'm a civilian contractor and was out of country for the duration of the KS event. Not only do I miss out on all of the sweet KS rewards/bonuses, I have to back the game with substandard contents and a semi-insulting name. :(
We had a thread about this (multiple times even), AND I emailled them directly asking for a new name like "Beta Backer". No love.

ramseytheory
07-10-2013, 01:42 PM
I think every other Kickstarter I've followed has called post-Kickstarter backers "slacker backers" - it's become the standard terminology. Probably CZE just doesn't want to risk confusion.

Dralon
07-10-2013, 01:42 PM
I guess I am way too old, and worry about too many real life offenses to let the name slacker bother me. No offense to those it does offend is intended.

Xenavire
07-10-2013, 02:46 PM
I guess I am way too old, and worry about too many real life offenses to let the name slacker bother me. No offense to those it does offend is intended.

Thats a mouthful.

And to be honest, it doesn't bother me, I know the name is meant to be catchy as a marketing ploy - it does that. Sadly some people find the way it is said to be offensive, and CZE could do something fun with it, but if not it shouldn't bother anyone - they are playing it safe, which makes sense.

Then again, perhaps being a slacker/lazy person lessens it's impact on me. Don't get me wrong, I get things done, and quickly, it just takes me longer to start.

RedAntler
07-10-2013, 03:00 PM
LOTS of people picked up extra KS tiers to sell later - they're selling them here here http://www.hexrealms.com/forumdisplay.php?322-Marketplace

Obviously the prices have been jacked way up but if you can afford it I'd highly recommend it. This will probably be your last chance to get one

Banquetto
07-10-2013, 03:12 PM
I think slacker backer is a standard name used by other kickstart projects - Hex could do something unique though, like a TCG reference - Second main phase backer doesn't have the best ring to it though.

"Sideboard backer"?

Xenavire
07-10-2013, 03:32 PM
"Sideboard backer"?

Good one! But can people be offended by it? *thinks*

Nthanel
07-10-2013, 05:06 PM
I hope everyone on that site selling and buying an account gets banned.

Gorgol
07-10-2013, 05:18 PM
I hope everyone on that site selling and buying an account gets banned.

ME too

Xenavire
07-10-2013, 05:19 PM
I hope everyone on that site selling and buying an account gets banned.

If CZE can track them, they will. They did already receive payment for those accounts, so those accounts would fall under any terms of service etc, and I am assuming that selling and buying accounts is against the terms of service. So the logical move would be to ban them - a little bit sad since the rewards would never be redeemed, but that is due to the dishonesty of others.

Gorgol
07-10-2013, 05:21 PM
If CZE can track them, they will. They did already receive payment for those accounts, so those accounts would fall under any terms of service etc, and I am assuming that selling and buying accounts is against the terms of service. So the logical move would be to ban them - a little bit sad since the rewards would never be redeemed, but that is due to the dishonesty of others.

Yeah, it was stated selling accounts is against ToS so if they catch them the banhammer cometh

Shadowelf
07-10-2013, 05:26 PM
If CZE can track them, they will. They did already receive payment for those accounts, so those accounts would fall under any terms of service etc, and I am assuming that selling and buying accounts is against the terms of service. So the logical move would be to ban them - a little bit sad since the rewards would never be redeemed, but that is due to the dishonesty of others.

Account selling is definately against TOS. Here is the thread that Kyle confimed this http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25761&page=2&p=260416#post260416


I hope everyone on that site selling and buying an account gets banned.

Yeah same here

Xenavire
07-10-2013, 05:50 PM
Account selling is definately against TOS. Here is the thread that Kyle confimed this http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25761&page=2&p=260416#post260416



Yeah same here

Yeah, I vaguely remembered a thread like that, but wasn't sure if he had said it was against the terms of service, or just frowned upon. I guess he was more clear in that thread. But that does help my point - CZE will be happy to cut those people off.

jgsugden
07-10-2013, 06:33 PM
It will be relatively easy to identify the accounts that are being sold given the information that was required to be given when the account was acquired. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to feel scammed.

Xenavire
07-10-2013, 06:41 PM
It will be relatively easy to identify the accounts that are being sold given the information that was required to be given when the account was acquired. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to feel scammed.

Anyone trying to buy an account needs to A) know about the kickstarter, and B) willing to look for a buyer. If the person can find that sort of information, and it never crosses their mind what the consequences might be for taking such an action, or even researching what might happen if they were to buy an account and were caught, then they deserve to lose out.

All it takes is a single thread here to get all the information you need.

In short, if they tried to buy an account, they had to know on some level it was wrong, and a risk. So in reality, they would have scammed themselves.

Gwaer
07-10-2013, 07:17 PM
One) People cannot be bound to a TOS that does not exist, you will have to agree to it when you log into your hex account the first time, you can't be bound by it before that.
Two) If they're doing it smart they're trading the email information that they bought the KS with, and the buyer will get the email and respond just as the seller would have if they didn't sell the account.
Three) Why does it matter to you? Don't engage in it if you don't agree. No reason to wish to ban them all. I'd not sell my KS accounts right now, I might very well do it after release though. If I have to go to some deep dank corner of the internet then so be it. I'm very much hoping that CZE puts in a safe and secure way to do it in game before that time comes.

Gorgol
07-10-2013, 07:31 PM
One) People cannot be bound to a TOS that does not exist, you will have to agree to it when you log into your hex account the first time, you can't be bound by it before that.
Two) If they're doing it smart they're trading the email information that they bought the KS with, and the buyer will get the email and respond just as the seller would have if they didn't sell the account.
Three) Why does it matter to you? Don't engage in it if you don't agree. No reason to wish to ban them all. I'd not sell my KS accounts right now, I might very well do it after release though. If I have to go to some deep dank corner of the internet then so be it. I'm very much hoping that CZE puts in a safe and secure way to do it in game before that time comes.
And if/when you do sell it I hope it too gets banned. Especially then because the ToS will have been signed by then.

Gwaer
07-10-2013, 07:36 PM
At that point, I cannot complain if it happens. Now however is a different story. =)

Nthanel
07-10-2013, 09:19 PM
Actually They can do that now. No ToU needed. They stated that they will have no tolerance of this so all they really need to do is Cancel that pledge and refund the money, assuming they really care that much. Because According to Kickstarters ToS that we ALL agreed with when using their service as backers: "Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backerís pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward." Also I am pretty sure selling KS Tiers can be considered distributing and that also Violates the agreement when you signed up for kickstarter. Granted I am not a lawyer, but that's just what it says me on the whole thing.

Gorgol
07-10-2013, 09:29 PM
Actually They can do that now. No ToU needed. They stated that they will have no tolerance of this so all they really need to do is Cancel that pledge and refund the money, assuming they really care that much. Because According to Kickstarters ToS that we ALL agreed with when using their service as backers: "Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward." Also I am pretty sure selling KS Tiers can be considered distributing and that also Violates the agreement when you signed up for kickstarter. Granted I am not a lawyer, but that's just what it says me on the whole thing.
Oh wow, I did not know that. This makes me very happy. Screw all the people who are trying to sell their tiers.

Gwaer
07-10-2013, 09:37 PM
They can refund any pledge at any time, they have to identify the accounts that are being sold, which is much more difficult. I suppose they could just refund every account. That way they'd be sure to get them all.

Shaqattaq
07-11-2013, 10:38 AM
They can refund any pledge at any time, they have to identify the accounts that are being sold, which is much more difficult. I suppose they could just refund every account. That way they'd be sure to get them all.

Not actually that difficult considering the internet savvy of some sellers.

As a warning, I would be more worried about purchasing an account and then having that seller file a chargeback on their pledge. We've already had a few accounts do that-- likely with the plan to both profit from the account itself and get their money back from the initial backing-- and those accounts will not be receiving their rewards. Pretty dicey, high-risk situation if you ask me.

Xenavire
07-11-2013, 10:47 AM
Not actually that difficult considering the internet savvy of some sellers.

As a warning, I would be more worried about purchasing an account and then having that seller file a chargeback on their pledge. We've already had a few accounts do that-- likely with the plan to both profit from the account itself and get their money back from the initial backing-- and those accounts will not be receiving their rewards. Pretty dicey, high-risk situation if you ask me.

So, in short, buyer beware? Thanks for chiming in Shaqattaq!

Gorgol
07-11-2013, 11:22 AM
Not actually that difficult considering the internet savvy of some sellers.

As a warning, I would be more worried about purchasing an account and then having that seller file a chargeback on their pledge. We've already had a few accounts do that-- likely with the plan to both profit from the account itself and get their money back from the initial backing-- and those accounts will not be receiving their rewards. Pretty dicey, high-risk situation if you ask me.

Oh snap

Shadowelf
07-11-2013, 11:24 AM
Not actually that difficult considering the internet savvy of some sellers.

As a warning, I would be more worried about purchasing an account and then having that seller file a chargeback on their pledge. We've already had a few accounts do that-- likely with the plan to both profit from the account itself and get their money back from the initial backing-- and those accounts will not be receiving their rewards. Pretty dicey, high-risk situation if you ask me.

Thanks for bringing this up.

This is not the only case u may be scammed though. Buyer can retract his money after getting his codes, and seller's may fill in a ticket that his account was stolen. Not to mention the fact that if somehow cze becomes aware of the sale, ur newly bought account may be banned. So buyers/sellers beware; personally i wouldn't buy an account in secondary market whatever the cost under those circumstances

Gwaer
07-11-2013, 11:38 AM
Not actually that difficult considering the internet savvy of some sellers.

As a warning, I would be more worried about purchasing an account and then having that seller file a chargeback on their pledge. We've already had a few accounts do that-- likely with the plan to both profit from the account itself and get their money back from the initial backing-- and those accounts will not be receiving their rewards. Pretty dicey, high-risk situation if you ask me.
I agree, very dicey. That's why I hope CZE comes up with a way to support it, and securely initiate it in the future. =)

Kalium
07-11-2013, 11:43 AM
Well if you have an "Early Bird"... why not a "Second Mouse"?

For those that didn't know... early bird may get the worm but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

Kalium

Xenavire
07-11-2013, 11:58 AM
Well if you have an "Early Bird"... why not a "Second Mouse"?

For those that didn't know... early bird may get the worm but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

Kalium

Clever. Depressing, but clever. That poor first mouse.

Gwaer
07-11-2013, 12:17 PM
Also it implies that I am a first mouse, and I'm pretty sure is some sort of threat against my person =/

Diesbudt
07-11-2013, 12:31 PM
Also it implies that I am a first mouse, and I'm pretty sure is some sort of threat against my person =/

Thanks for your sacrifice so your brethren the second mouse can eat some cheese.

Mr.Funsocks
07-11-2013, 01:07 PM
That also implies that the "Second Mouse" option would be BETTER than the KS ones. Since, y'know... the second mouse not only doesn't die a slow, painful death, but also gets yummy cheese.

Gwaer
07-11-2013, 01:17 PM
I suppose we get heaven, and they just get cheese.

Yoss
07-11-2013, 01:35 PM
I agree, very dicey. That's why I hope CZE comes up with a way to support it, and securely initiate it in the future. =)
Yes, account transfer is a Hot Topic (link), second to last item on the list. For those who missed it, there are lots of good arguments in favor of a supported, official way to transfer accounts. However, implementing real money transactions (RMT) would most likely be a prerequisite for the transfer proposal to work. RMT is the third to last item on the Hot Topics list. Everyone please go read up on the issue.

(P.S. Hey Gwaer, we can actually agree on something! :p)

Xintia
07-11-2013, 02:27 PM
Yoss. Fighting the good fight to keep threads on topic since.......... well, only last month. But give him credit. It's exhausting work. ;)

Xenavire
07-11-2013, 08:13 PM
That also implies that the "Second Mouse" option would be BETTER than the KS ones. Since, y'know... the second mouse not only doesn't die a slow, painful death, but also gets yummy cheese.

Maybe the slacker backer is third mouse? And the KS backer is second mouse? Who the hell was first mouse though? I dread to think.

dogmod
07-11-2013, 08:23 PM
Maybe the slacker backer is third mouse? And the KS backer is second mouse? Who the hell was first mouse though? I dread to think.

First mouse was cryptos bank accounts pre-kickstarter. Yoss pimps threads like it is going out of style.