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View Full Version : WoW TCG - Kill it or String Along?



Stok3d
07-13-2013, 11:46 AM
I'm very unsure how popular that game is. I've never played it. However, when I played WoW and saw the special inserts on ebay that were redeemable for WoW ingame loot, it was my perception that most of the value was contained in the inserts. Now you have a WoW TCG game coming out that is actually created by Blizzard (Hearthstone). I realize this is an online game, but lets face it--online is a better format anyway. It's possible that even Blizzard's themselves is trying to phase out the paper product.

In addition, CZE is also putting out Hex. CZE is by no means a large company--at least from my perception. Hex has the potential to become THE massive cash cow for the company. In all actuality, it already has. If CZE plays their cards right by continually reinvesting in Hex, I believe the company revenue will increase multifold to what it is today.

Now I ask you this, is it a good idea to split resources with that of the WoW TCG that has what could be considerd to have a downhill future or put all your eggs in one basket for Hex? Maybe I'm incorrect by thinking about everything that goes into that game, but why would there even still be cash tournament payouts? Seems they'd just hope to move those players over to Hex and stop promoting the paper product.

I guess I'm just thinking out loud with this as we aren't dictating these type of managerial moves, but to me it seems silly to continue on with cash Tourns, advertisement, and development there when they just laid a golden egg and named it Hex. The obvious answer is "If it's still making money, then why stop". This is true to a point. If you know the future looks bleak and non-profitable, stop while you can. At least don't persist with expensive tourns etc. Also, you may already know about the quality of the team / employees and know how they contribute better to Hex. Or... are these ppl doing the WoW TCG one in the same that are doing Hex? Are we losing possible development time because of the WoW TCG?

jollytothegreen
07-13-2013, 11:49 AM
The door is thata way. ->

ZeroCool
07-13-2013, 11:56 AM
Did CZE license WoW from Blizzard or is Blizzard paying CZE to produce the WoW TCG?

Very important question.

Stok3d
07-13-2013, 11:57 AM
Did CZE license WoW from Blizzard or is Blizzard paying CZE to produce the WoW TCG?

Very important question.

That is a VERY important question. Great Point. I dunno.

Chiany
07-13-2013, 12:00 PM
Did CZE license WoW from Blizzard or is Blizzard paying CZE to produce the WoW TCG?

Very important question.

I think the first, but not sure.

But to respond to the OP:

I played the wow tcg from the start, but sold my collection a few months before I heard of Hex.
the wow tcg currently is attracting still some good numbers of players, but I think that a short while after Hex is officially released it will start to see dropping attendance.

But this is pure speculations, since I haven't been paying much attention to it the last months.

Gorgol
07-13-2013, 12:00 PM
That is a very important question indeed. I don't think Blizzard would want to compete with themselves in the card game market.

cervidal
07-13-2013, 12:04 PM
Y'know, why put all those resources into a paper M:tG game when the online version is so superior? Everyone knows online format is better. Why keep putting money into events cash prize pay outs?

Get out of the house and do some socializing, OP. Not all games are best played from your basement chair in front of a monitor.

HyenaNipples
07-13-2013, 12:52 PM
I predict that the world will be a better place if this thread just stops at this point and is never seen again.

Gorgol
07-13-2013, 12:53 PM
If Blizzard wants it to die, it will die. Otherwise it will keep on trucking like it is now.

Shadowelf
07-13-2013, 12:56 PM
As long as wow tcg attracts a sufficient amount of players and has satisfactory sales, i don't see why they will stop supporting it; As for hex being superior, its debatable; there are people that like the socializing aspect of physical card games, the feel of cards, the wow background, or even travelling for events. So i don't see this as a valid argument.

Xintia
07-13-2013, 01:09 PM
Don't forget Blizzard is also making their own psuedo dTCG in Hearthstone which could be considered a more direct competitor to HEX. I think that would be a more relevant issue to Blizzard and CZE's ongoing relationship, whatever it might be.

Badger
07-13-2013, 01:10 PM
My first thought is that they would phase wow out, but in reality the two could coexist. Wow is very different from hex and it a fixes some of the problems that have put a lot of people off magic (while creating a few small new ones).
This in the first year that I haven't played Wowtcg since it was released so I know how amazing the game can be. It may hold on to the niche that it occupies quite nicely. I'll never play it again though.

Gorgol
07-13-2013, 01:12 PM
Don't forget Blizzard is also making their own psuedo dTCG in Hearthstone which could be considered a more direct competitor to HEX. I think that would be a more relevant issue to Blizzard and CZE's ongoing relationship, whatever it might be.

You keep thinking that, because its clear while both are card games one is for the ultra super casual (hearthstone) and one is for everyone else (Hex)

Xintia
07-13-2013, 01:17 PM
You keep thinking that, because its clear while both are card games one is for the ultra super casual (hearthstone) and one is for everyone else (Hex)

Hence my use of the terms "pseudo dTCG" and "could be considered." I am aware that Hearthstone is a different sort of animal, but competition is competition, and profits are profits. I think Hearthstone is the product that has more of an effect on the question posed by the OP than the physical WoW TCG.

Dralon
07-13-2013, 01:20 PM
CZE is more than WoWTCG and more than Hex. They put out a ton of other games and products. Just because they have a new product, "Hex", they do not need to 'retire' another successful property. WoWTCG is still successful for them, many of us still collect the cards while never playing in tournaments (Me) and hundreds turn out for their Tournament snd live events.

Hearthstone will be a great game and I look forward to it, and it shares some things in common with WoWTCG, but is much different. They can easily coexist. Hearthstone will also compete with Hex for a some market share, but I also think they can coexist.

Mr.Funsocks
07-13-2013, 01:20 PM
I predict that the world will be a better place if this thread just stops at this point and is never seen again.

Yeah... that wasn't gonna happen... Sadly...

Helbendt
07-13-2013, 01:22 PM
As long as wow tcg attracts a sufficient amount of players and has satisfactory sales, i don't see why they will stop supporting it; As for hex being superior, its debatable; there are people that like the socializing aspect of physical card games, the feel of cards, the wow background, or even travelling for events. So i don't see this as a valid argument.
Don't forget WoWTCG having notably larger mechanical differences from M:tG than Hex does. I'm not saying that's THE main source of its longevity, but it's probably pretty important.

nekoangel
07-13-2013, 01:24 PM
If anything wow is loosing development because of hex...... I this thread isn't very constructive in all honesty.
Paper games are far from dead and i feel this will be the case for many years to come.

Hearthstone doesn't have them same audience as wow or hex you need to realise this.

Also remember wowtcg probably funded the first two years of hex and is an ip of blizzard, all these factors are to be considered.

Lastly for a company with a moto fans first how bad would it look to shut a perfectly well game down?

Gorgol
07-13-2013, 01:43 PM
If anything wow is loosing development because of hex...... I this thread isn't very constructive in all honesty.
Paper games are far from dead and i feel this will be the case for many years to come.

Hearthstone doesn't have them same audience as wow or hex you need to realise this.

Also remember wowtcg probably funded the first two years of hex and is an ip of blizzard, all these factors are to be considered.

Lastly for a company with a moto fans first how bad would it look to shut a perfectly well game down?
I agree. It won't die unless Blizzard wishes it (if that's even possible contractually) WoWTCG will continue on for a long time.

Miwa
07-13-2013, 01:56 PM
As long as it makes money, WoWTCG will stick around (well, that and as long as there's a license). I'd expect that Hex will probably leech a bunch of their player base though, depending on what the players think of CZE. Well, that and Hearthstone will probably leech off some of the player base too.

Cross promotion is pretty easy from WoWTCG to Hex too, so they'll probably market to those folks. Have to think their potential margin on Hex is higher than WoWTCG, due to no licensing costs. And not having to get things approved.

Nekojin
07-13-2013, 03:38 PM
In addition, CZE is also putting out Hex. CZE is by no means a large company--at least from my perception.
This is an inaccurate perception. Any company that can do nationwide (worldwide!) marketing and production of a collectible card game is, pretty much by definition, a large company. You can't achieve that with a ten-man crew in a single office.

From the art design to the marketing to the production to the distribution - this is an expensive market to compete in. While a startup company might be able to get a self-made game published and distributed, and possibly even achieve nationwide distribution (although it wouldn't be easy), by the time they're into their second and third game, they're unquestionably getting into "major leagues" territory. And going by their website, CZE has at least 24 games (http://www.cryptozoic.com/games) in current production.

They're not a small company, any more than Blizzard was a small company before WoW.

felmare
07-13-2013, 06:29 PM
no one really cares what blizzard is doing. chances are that if Jay Wilson touched any part of Hearthstone it will blow hardcore. Blizz is turning away from the fans and not listening hence the failure of D3. Where as CZE is listening to us as mentioned in the interview today on knightsoftheround. I dont think it is a matter of CZE vs WOW/Blizz its a matter of CZE converting current/possible/previous MTG and MTGO players.

Tonier
07-13-2013, 06:39 PM
They're not a small company, any more than Blizzard was a small company before WoW.

They are a small company. I and a few other WoWTCG players have had a tour of their now-former office space. Blizzard takes a very active part in the development of the game a major part of it being art design.


You can't achieve that with a ten-man crew in a single office.

I don't know their exact staff size, but ten isn't too far off. 20 is probably closer to the truth.

panzer
07-13-2013, 06:50 PM
I can see the OP's point, why create a conflict of interest if WOW already has a card game. Obviously CZE could translate an already established (and from what I understand very fun) WOW TCG into digital. If I had to make a guess Blizzard will cancel the licensing of WOWTCG in favor of hearthstone (no need to compete against itself).

I'd like to take this time to thank Blizzard for not letting CZE make Hearthstone as I doubt we would have HEX.

stiii
07-13-2013, 09:12 PM
I wonder what the OP would say if in five years time the position was reversed and CZE were releasing a new game and people were wondering if they should kill off hex.

Stok3d
07-13-2013, 09:17 PM
I'd like to take this time to thank Blizzard for not letting CZE make Hearthstone as I doubt we would have HEX.

This and CZE has complete freedom to do w/e visions they please. Also, I truly believe Hearthstone is a big benefit for Hex and all TCGs in general. I believe Hearthstone is going to introduce MILLIONS of ppl to a TCG who have never played one. I say this because I know for a fact that if you play the beta then you get an in-game mount for WoW. That being the case, most everyone who plays WoW will at least try to get the mount. There are currently 8-10mil ppl who play WoW and I guarantee at least 5 million will at least play some of the New hearthstone TCG for the WoW mount.

Now that they get an introduction to a simplistic low lvl TCG, they may be more inclined to expand their horizons and play a better & more indepth game called Hex. All that they need to do is hear about the game. I'm sure CZE will have some ads on Wowhead and mmo-champions and guess what... we're set!!!

Yes, thank you again Blizzard :)

Gorgol
07-13-2013, 09:21 PM
I'm sure CZE will have some ads on Wowhead and mmo-champions and guess what... we're set!!!

Yes, thank you again Blizzard :)
I only found out about Hex originally because their frontpage had the Kickstarter video on their news post.

Syeblaze
07-14-2013, 12:14 AM
I only found out about Hex originally because their frontpage had the Kickstarter video on their news post.



Blizzards news post? Well there you go. Obviously, Blizzard is not considering cze as direct competitors. In any case, the only game that the wowtcg really competes with is paper mtg. Hearth Stone is aimed at a different crowd than Hex. Hex does not compete with wowtcg, either, since the medium is fundamentally different, and where you play it are different as well. People are acting like real cards are gonna go away. They aren't. But online is new pastures, you don't need to go anywhere, meet anyone, or anything. However, you don't get to go out and meet anyone either. Fundamentally different. My prediction is that cze will support and put new things together for wowtcg till they run out of wow.

nekoangel
07-14-2013, 12:16 AM
I can see the OP's point, why create a conflict of interest if WOW already has a card game. Obviously CZE could translate an already established (and from what I understand very fun) WOW TCG into digital. If I had to make a guess Blizzard will cancel the licensing of WOWTCG in favor of hearthstone (no need to compete against itself).

I'd like to take this time to thank Blizzard for not letting CZE make Hearthstone as I doubt we would have HEX.

You need to re read some posts.

Since the Cryptozoic only liscence wow tcg they don't grt full control over it and with hex this gives them a chance to not only make a new genre but have full control over content etcetera.

Hearthstone hex and wowtcg are not competing with each other as they are different formats and aimed at different audiences.

So as much as it seems a conflict t of interest in reality they just wanted a game that was wholly there own where they could smash the systems we already have in the past with the limitless digital format.

sayuu
07-14-2013, 03:01 AM
Did CZE license WoW from Blizzard or is Blizzard paying CZE to produce the WoW TCG?

Very important question.

easily answered, Blizzard is paying CZE to produce the WoWtcg after upperdecks mishandling of the game.

Patrigan
07-14-2013, 03:16 AM
easily answered, Blizzard is paying CZE to produce the WoWtcg after upperdecks mishandling of the game.

I am fairly certain this is wrong. Where's the gain for Blizzard to even have the TCG?

sayuu
07-14-2013, 03:19 AM
I am fairly certain this is wrong. Where's the gain for Blizzard to even have the TCG?

Profits go to blizzard with a % going to CZE.


And it is correct, that wording was used when the game switched producers. . .

Patrigan
07-14-2013, 05:42 AM
Profits go to blizzard with a % going to CZE.


And it is correct, that wording was used when the game switched producers. . .

Sadly, it's still wrong, however, you seem to be pretty certain about your case, so I'm not gonna bagn my heaad against a wall. However, I do suggest not speculating, unless you have a CZE employee who can verify it for you. With other words don't form an opinion, unless someone from CZE explicitly said something to you about the license.

Tonier
07-14-2013, 05:29 PM
Profits go to blizzard with a % going to CZE.


And it is correct, that wording was used when the game switched producers. . .

I'm also pretty sure this is wrong.

Shrennan
07-14-2013, 05:33 PM
Did CZE license WoW from Blizzard or is Blizzard paying CZE to produce the WoW TCG?

Very important question.

I am 99.9% sure it's the latter. I think Cory created the WoW TCG while under Blizzard (or he was working with Blizzard to create it). I may be completely wrong though. ^_^

Either way, Blizzard still has full control over the WoW TCG so if Crypto would stop supporting it then Blizzard could just employ someone else to continue it. I really don't think Crypto is going to outright abandon the WoW TCG, even assuming Hex is successful on a very unprecedented level.

Gorgol
07-14-2013, 05:47 PM
I am 99.9% sure it's the latter. I think Cory created the WoW TCG while under Blizzard (or he was working with Blizzard to create it). I may be completely wrong though. ^_^
I seem to recall him talking about that in an interview, though I can't be bothered enough to go search it out. Curse him for doing so many interviews! :p