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View Full Version : The Ultimate Deck Combo... again



chansen005
07-22-2013, 03:33 PM
Before anyone flames me, yes i know this is in the wrong forum, no one looks at strategy and decklist area.

I recently had an idea of a pack raptor deck that eventually drew out as many pack raptors as you have mana, and 4 players who were commenting were talking about their own UNSTOPPABLE sometimes turn 1 win decks... after much reading up and cards I tried to figure out what the hell they were talking about.... it obviously requires the use of at least 1 lotus but how did it work?, then i figured it out. (somewhat)

Start the game with 1 spectral lotus, one source of any color, and 1 asetic aspirant in your hand. choose diamond threshold because you need 2 to play him, and drop him turn one. Because he is summoning sick, you cant transform him yet. wait until turn 2, do whatever you can from your hand, and tap him to turn him into enlightened seeker, on turn 3 you can draw your dream dances, oracle songs, and replicator gambit some time bugs, and infinite combo cards required.... There is no infinite combo that i can conclude without this card.

The other combo someone brought to my attention was Ebonrock turning all troops into artifact troops. that being said i can play a journeyman tactician, and then every pack raptor costs 0, draw some more card.

Either way i fail to see how you can go off turn one, people were hinting at peek, so that you can go through your deck, but you need sapphire threshold to make peek work, so you need to get sapphire from your lotus and not diamond.... i dont see the combo, can someone point me around the last corner?

Yoss
07-22-2013, 03:46 PM
yes i know this is in the wrong forum, no one looks at strategy and decklist area.
You are so lucky no mods are here right now.

Please, no one post here. Go to the Decks forum if you want to talk about this.

EDIT:
OK, now you can post; it's been moved to the right place.

Hemlock
07-22-2013, 04:02 PM
That's certainly a very powerful play. Requiring such a specific opening hand makes it a tad unreliable, in terms of building a deck around it. I've been looking at the Burgamot combo for a while, though, and that excites me more, as you can always Reverse Engineer the Journeyman Technician if you don't see it in the first few turns.

But yeah, you aren't helping the problem of people sticking to General like flypaper.

Mr.Funsocks
07-22-2013, 04:04 PM
You felt the need to knowingly post a second identically-titled thread in the wrong forum?

Well, not identical I guess. No meat in this one.

Sanik
07-22-2013, 05:44 PM
Before anyone flames me, yes i know this is in the wrong forum, no one looks at strategy and decklist area.

Not a great way to start off your post. Please keep it where it belongs next time.

Aradon
07-22-2013, 08:45 PM
Eh, don't limit yourself to one lotus. Turn 1 wins take a good bit of mana. As for my deck, it doesn't use Ascetic Aspirant. Personally, I hate that card, but it is true that if you can flip it, you really ought to win :P

nekoangel
07-22-2013, 11:36 PM
Think the most obvious was dream dance when lock combo to get casting costs to 0. Something like that.

I can see the thread has been moved but its not exactly hard to put it in the right place first time. Helps general get less clutter and saves done posts etc.

jaxsonbatemanhex
07-23-2013, 09:48 AM
It's not Ascetic Aspirant, and it doesn't require Peek. Neither of those cards are in my decklist. For my decklist, it certainly can go off on turn 1 if I pull the trigger then (I think it's about 75-80% chance of hitting infinite at that point, though my setup has a nice side effect in that often even if I don't go infinite, I have a strong board position), but the odds go way up if I pull the trigger on turn 2 instead.

Unfortunately, I personally at least want to leave the door open to challenge for raid firsts, so it's in my best interest to sit on my decklist. Once that's not a possibility anymore though I'm happy to divulge. ^^

nicosharp
07-23-2013, 01:37 PM
The only problem with the turn 1 Ebonrock artifact pack raptor combo is that journeyman technician requires sapphire threshold.

I'd be interested to find out a win condition on turn 1. Most solid decks I am looking at are locks or wins by turn 4 on any consistent basis. I guess I need to theory craft a lot more.

Barkam
07-23-2013, 02:09 PM
You have to take their "win condition" with a grain of salt. They could just be counting dropping a 5/5 creature as a win condition in turn 1 and requiring a nut draw. Hardly a semblance of an ultimate pve deck.

Barkam
07-23-2013, 02:12 PM
The only problem with the turn 1 Ebonrock artifact pack raptor combo is that journeyman technician requires sapphire threshold.

I'd be interested to find out a win condition on turn 1. Most solid decks I am looking at are locks or wins by turn 4 on any consistent basis. I guess I need to theory craft a lot more.

It is really easy with a Lotus. Wild threshold with wild resource card and Sapphire threshold with spectral Lotus.

It is possible to have infinite pack raptors by turn one just highly improbable.

jaxsonbatemanhex
07-23-2013, 02:52 PM
I'd be interested to find out a win condition on turn 1. Most solid decks I am looking at are locks or wins by turn 4 on any consistent basis. I guess I need to theory craft a lot more.
To be fair, I've actually been able to play my decks (on MWS), which has allowed a lot of tuning - though honestly, I haven't tuned in about 2 months given the lack of spoilers that would actually help the deck. Truth be told, I first got a handle on the idea through one fortuitous playtest where I accidentally went infinite (the deck looked a lot different than it does now), and it kind of snowballed from there.

In regards to the wincons though, with my decklist, there are 2 that are always in the deck, and depending on the raid situation I can easily accommodate any other wincon if something in particular is required for that encounter.

nicosharp
07-23-2013, 04:27 PM
It is really easy with a Lotus. Wild threshold with wild resource card and Sapphire threshold with spectral Lotus.

It is possible to have infinite pack raptors by turn one just highly improbable.
You could have the board state to win turn 2 with infinite raptors, but do you have the win turn 1? That is basically what I am asking. Burn and speed troops is all I can think of, and potentially some hero charge powers.

vulture27
07-24-2013, 02:27 PM
Couldn't say exactly what decklist is going to go off on turn one, but some interesting things to note....

Spectral Lotus + glove equipment = Holy c**p this is the most broken thing ever. Combining the abilities of multiple Magic:The Gathering cards that were each banned for being too powerful.

Void Marauder + glove equipment (assuming the effect becomes an ability on the card and thereby only working when each Marauder is in play) = This card is easily a combo mechanic with card draw actions and a win condition with burn spells. Which leads me to.....

Dream Dance + boots equipment = If the boots work as written this is insane. You just need two copies (maybe three depending on the order the abilities trigger) to make every spell in your deck free and to draw the entire deck. Don't expect that to make it past Alpha testing if it hasn't already been changed.

Edit: Archmage Wrenlocke is also interesting with the Marauder - Play one action and potentially draw several cards.

Aradon
07-24-2013, 04:10 PM
Vulture, two Dream Dances will just reduce all costs to 0, it can't draw the whole deck. You need to put the other Dream Dance on top of your library, which you then draw, making it card-neutral. With Wrenlocke, though, yeah. You draw the whole deck. It also has the bonus of making the two dream dances cost only 3 or 4 mana to cast three times. The limiter on this combo is that it's actually pretty hard to reliably get two dream dances into your hand.

jaxsonbatemanhex
07-24-2013, 05:42 PM
Vulture, two Dream Dances will just reduce all costs to 0,
How many you need will depend on precisely how the boots work.

Halfmind
08-04-2013, 09:33 AM
I've been able to consistently win turn one with three avenues of victory in the deck. Unfortunately, it does require a fully leveled Merc. I'm now testing for guaranteed victory conditions by turn three (Merc perk free) for powerleveling purposes, and I'm just about there. I expect to see some cards balanced over Alpha/Beta, but it sure is fun to theorycraft while we wait!

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-04-2013, 01:47 PM
99.85% turn 2 going-infinite rate under raid settings with the potential to be higher if an ability works differently to how I worked with it, and this in a decklist that came out before the equipment for the Sliver of the Immortal Spear (free mulligan) and Master Theorycrafter (reduce cost of a card in your deck) came to light, which could potentially boost those odds further, though admittedly it's tough to find room in the deck for them.

Essentially, they'll either nerf one or two cards to the point where they won't get played much, or they'll include some raid mechanics that will screw with what we're trying to do - and I can think of quite a few that would work. :-3

Ben
08-05-2013, 06:59 AM
Vulture, two Dream Dances will just reduce all costs to 0, it can't draw the whole deck. You need to put the other Dream Dance on top of your library, which you then draw, making it card-neutral. With Wrenlocke, though, yeah. You draw the whole deck. It also has the bonus of making the two dream dances cost only 3 or 4 mana to cast three times. The limiter on this combo is that it's actually pretty hard to reliably get two dream dances into your hand.

Cory already said "Nothing will reduce the cost of a card to 0." so, two Dream Dances will cap a card to 1 cost not 0.

LargoLaGrande
08-05-2013, 11:59 AM
The twitch stream from two months ago shows Technical Geniuses reducing artifact costs to zero (see: http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg/b/412717902 at around 25:50). Also, when they were showing off the decks that would be on that stream they mentioned the synergy between Technical Genius and 1 cost artifacts(http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg/b/412300360 at 41:10). Since this was streamed at least a month after when Cory stated that nothing would reduce to zero you have to assume that he was either mistaken, or there was a shift in design philosophy. Also, see the extra text on Archmage Wrenlocke, he wouldn't need that if nothing could reduce costs to zero.

Aradon
08-05-2013, 01:20 PM
Indeed, it's been shown that costs can be reduced to zero. Some cards will be unable to do so, such as Archmage Wrenlocke, but you can find about a handful of explicit examples illustrating things reducing costs to zero already in the cards spoiled. A lot of it is a result of equipment, but there's plenty of reason to believe that costs can be reduced to zero.

Eierdotter
08-06-2013, 04:58 AM
you need to play several dream dance or dwarves to reduce the cost of a card to 0, so it is not something you get every time. having the cost finally reduced to 0 is a reward for stacking those cards effects.

I think cory based his statement to permanent cards with effects like "Quickactions you play have their cost reduced to 0"