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hammer
07-26-2013, 01:31 PM
Seriously awesome I love control and counter magic is the card I have been waiting for. Now to build extinction control or rage fire control.
Happy Hammer

Nthanel
07-26-2013, 01:32 PM
The gear basically makes it a force of will.

Blare731
07-26-2013, 01:34 PM
Yeah I really loved the card previews today, I think counter magic is a great example of the cards we can expect to prevent the issue of removal from the game that the community has brought up.

Kslidz
07-26-2013, 02:03 PM
cant wait to be playing arch mage wrenlocke and counter magic and extinction all day long gonna play some hard core control

Unhurtable
07-26-2013, 03:03 PM
Murder now costs 5 instead of 3.

Ugh... Mah murdahs!

Mr.Funsocks
07-26-2013, 03:15 PM
Woooo counterspells. Best deck type!

Shadowelf
07-26-2013, 04:14 PM
So if you counter let's say murder for the second time, it now costs 7 ?

Armies
07-26-2013, 04:18 PM
my warlock inquisitors cost 5 base line ahhhhh

Rycajo
07-26-2013, 04:49 PM
Possibly best card to counter in constructed? Pack Raptor.

Armies
07-26-2013, 04:55 PM
most people would be happy enough to have you use a copy of your counter spell on pack raptor, your 3 cost spell for my 1 cost and now my other raptors are 3 cost, still have one less control card to deal with the bigger threats.(from experience pack raptors are very very very luck based and it would be better to counter eye of creation then to deal with the pack raptors directly)

Rycajo
07-26-2013, 05:26 PM
most people would be happy enough to have you use a copy of your counter spell on pack raptor, your 3 cost spell for my 1 cost and now my other raptors are 3 cost, still have one less control card to deal with the bigger threats.(from experience pack raptors are very very very luck based and it would be better to counter eye of creation then to deal with the pack raptors directly)

This is true. There are any number of bombs that are more of a threat than a pack raptor. I just thought Pack Raptor is especially vulnerable to the increased resource cost as it triples the cost of future raptors. This is especially true in the wild west format where the raptor would generally be a cantrip as well as a troop.

jaxsonbatemanhex
07-26-2013, 05:28 PM
Zomg... the power level... /brainassplode

It's effectively 3 mana 'removal' that not only hits everything (albeit, with the drawback of only being able to do it at one point - while the spell is being cast - unlike other removal that can be used any time), but has a serious impact after that. The potential of this card cannot be overstated - adding 2 mana to a card, in effect, changes most cards from something playable to something not in a normal deck. For a 3 mana counterspell, that is enormous.

Quite honestly, seeing as they're not willing to nerf cards and I don't want to see any bans, I hope this gets changed before alpha/beta. While it's hard to tell without having the full spoiler and seeing if a control deck that holds 3 mana open is viable, this seems too good on paper (and at common?!?), especially in sapphire/blood control which will also have access to Murder and Extinction for those times that you can't leave mana open.

verozo
07-26-2013, 05:51 PM
IMO, having a +2 cost to the next cast of the same spell instead of perm might work better. Perm +2 seems too OP

Xenavire
07-26-2013, 07:57 PM
Just counter their counter magic. Suddenly they need a lot more mana to deal with your threats. Plus your original spell gets to stick around.

Nthanel
07-26-2013, 08:00 PM
Except if they have the equipment that makes it so you can't interrupt counter magic.

Armies
07-26-2013, 08:05 PM
Except if they have the equipment that makes it so you can't interrupt counter magic.
only matters in pve most people are more interested in balance for pvp as opposed to the crazy stuff in pve

Xenavire
07-26-2013, 08:15 PM
Yeah, didn't think I needed to mention thats a PvP move. Besides, since it is currently the only interrupt in the game we know about, the equipment would be a BAAAAAD choice. A slot wasted for the offchance that the opponent will A) have the card in their deck, and B) have it at the right time?

No, the only real chance for that tactic is in PvP, for now.

Armies
07-26-2013, 08:17 PM
there is another interrupt but its a temporary one, in the form of Void Leech Phantasm

LargoLaGrande
07-26-2013, 11:47 PM
The gear basically makes it a force of will.

You still need the 2 Sapphire threshold though, the gear only lets you ignore its mana cost.

Chiany
07-27-2013, 01:05 AM
What is this Sapphire Shard you can discard in pve instead of paying the cost?
Simply a sapphire resource?

Kroan
07-27-2013, 03:08 AM
Zomg... the power level... /brainassplode

It's effectively 3 mana 'removal' that not only hits everything (albeit, with the drawback of only being able to do it at one point - while the spell is being cast - unlike other removal that can be used any time), but has a serious impact after that. The potential of this card cannot be overstated - adding 2 mana to a card, in effect, changes most cards from something playable to something not in a normal deck. For a 3 mana counterspell, that is enormous.

Quite honestly, seeing as they're not willing to nerf cards and I don't want to see any bans, I hope this gets changed before alpha/beta. While it's hard to tell without having the full spoiler and seeing if a control deck that holds 3 mana open is viable, this seems too good on paper (and at common?!?), especially in sapphire/blood control which will also have access to Murder and Extinction for those times that you can't leave mana open.
I think you're overvalueing this card. Take a step back, breath, and think please :P The card first of has heavy blue requirement, which will be tough on turn three in a multicolor deck. (Assuming you go sapphire blood control or sapphire diamond control, which seem most obvious). Most people can play around it and since there has not yet been any good quickaction draw cards you're basically skipping a turn.

It's a fine card, but not as powerful as people make it out to be. It's cancel with an upside and while playable (in constructed) it's nothing to go bonkers over. We've seen plenty cancel's with an upside in magic...

In limited this card is most likely your 23rd card or something. These things will table like there's no tommorow.

Dropbear
07-27-2013, 08:07 AM
This'll probably be a SD Control's best friend until it rotates out. Even without seeing a years worth of cards I'm putting this in the "holy shit" catgory. You could potentially shut down some cards to a 7 mana cost, making them completely worthless.

jaxsonbatemanhex
07-27-2013, 08:59 AM
I think you're overvalueing this card. Take a step back, breath, and think please :P The card first of has heavy blue requirement, which will be tough on turn three in a multicolor deck. (Assuming you go sapphire blood control or sapphire diamond control, which seem most obvious). Most people can play around it and since there has not yet been any good quickaction draw cards you're basically skipping a turn.

It's a fine card, but not as powerful as people make it out to be. It's cancel with an upside and while playable (in constructed) it's nothing to go bonkers over. We've seen plenty cancel's with an upside in magic...

In limited this card is most likely your 23rd card or something. These things will table like there's no tommorow.
Firstly, the "counter target spell" part of it is exactly Cancel, in terms of mana cost and color requirement. 2 threshold on turn 3 in a 2 color deck is very doable, even with just basic resources (I actually made a wild/sapphire midrange decklist a while back which, despite having Thunderbird for 2 threshold on turn 2 and Void Leech for 3 threshold on turn 4, didn't actually have any threshold conflicts between drops, just because of the way they were set up (for example, my wild 3 drops were single threshold, meaning that Thunderbird into 3-drop was fine. Likewise, I only had a sapphire 1-drop, so it could segway perfectly into a Thunderbird or Succulent Roostasaur (1 threshold wild) 2 drop, which then flowed perfectly into the 3 drop, and so on).

Essentially, threshold shouldn't be an issue unless your 2 drops are double threshold of the other color in your deck. And then you should be looking into that issue during deck construction, and probably eliminating one card or the other.

However, without Mana Leak in standard we've seen Cancel, Dissipate and Render Silent all played as a 3 mana counterspell. And I can tell you now, +2 to the cost of all other copies of the countered card is far more upside than "the countered spell gets exiled" and "the player can't cast anymore spells this turn".

You're somewhat right about limited - on the one hand, no-one will be taking it for the +2 cost effect because the chances of that actually being relevant in limited are very, very slim. On the other, it's not overly expensive, and while you have to hold mana open for it, it's the best removal in sapphire atm (albeit, its only competition is Cerulean Grand Strategist and the new Polymorph spell). It'll table as much as cancel does in Magic, but it's far from the worst card in limited, and as far as 3 mana counterspells go in constructed (compared to MTG) it's very, very good.

Kroan
07-27-2013, 10:00 AM
As I said, it's certainly playable, but what did you say? "/brainassplode". I'm sure you agree with me that a card like Mana Leak would be far better (well, basically you already agreed on that). Heck, I wonder if a card like Essence Scatter wouldn't be better from what we've seen so far.

Getting to 2 Sapphire turn 3 might not always be a problem, but with limited color fixing it will make your deck less relaible. Something you're striving for in constructed. Seeing your opp. playing something turn 3 putting even more pressure on you while you have counterspells in your hand but not the treshhold to react is terrible akward to say the least. I'm not sure how to respond on your "presonal experience", since well... it's personal :P Basic math should be able to determine how often it would occur to not have the second sapphire on turn 3.

I want to point out aswell that a counterspell is only as good as your quickactions in the format. "Skipping" your turn hoping your opponent will play something worth countering without a backup plan is kinda akward. Your opponent might just aswell chose to not play something and keep attacking you... and you just skipped your turn doing nothing. For now we have Murder, which is fine, but what you really want is something in the lines of drawing cards.

Lastely, you have to wonder how often the "permanent increase of 2" will be relevant. It's a neat bonus, don't get me wrong, but for example in magic's current standard i'd rather have dissipate than that. (As it's a graveyard based metagame obviously)

Again; it's a fine card. Surely a 4-of in any control deck (seeing that it's all we have)... but to be talking about a possible "ban"? I don't think so... Not even close.

In limited, rating this as removal is a serious mistake :)

jaxsonbatemanhex
07-28-2013, 01:58 AM
In limited, sometimes you have to take removal you don't want to - it's not like you're going to end up with 7murder.dec :-P

It's just amazing how much of an upside this has when our biggest game to compare to is Magic, which currently has a few 3 mana counters in standard, which don't even compare to this level of upside. It probably won't come up - but when it does, it'll likely be relevant (after all it makes most cards have a cost that would usually make you not include them), and even when it doesn't, it's still a playable card.

No denying that 2 mana counterspells are better though, even slightly conditional ones like Mana Leak (which has always been a great card). But then, 2 mana black removal is better too. :-P

My brain probably assploded from the sheer difference in power between this and Magic's 3 mana counters.

LargoLaGrande
07-28-2013, 11:25 AM
I don't know if any of you have drafted M14 yet, but cancel is still a fabulous card in limited. I wouldn't want more than 1-2 (and 2 is pushing it, Essence Scatter + Cancel is better than 2x Cancel) but if you have it in hand, and ever get up on board position it's just so good.

Grissnap
07-28-2013, 07:58 PM
It's a decent card, but the sky is definitely not falling.

jaxsonbatemanhex
07-29-2013, 04:30 AM
Having thought about the card some more, I think I was too dramatic in my assessment - it's far better than pretty much every Magic 3 mana counterspell, and even some of the four mana versions, but it's still a 3 mana counterspell - and typically, you'd much prefer a 2 mana conditional counterspell like Negate, Essence Scatter, Mana Leak, Remand etc.

The upside, though, means that in a vacuum it's far better than Cancel, Hinder, Dissipate etc - but people tend to only run 3 mana counterspells in a format when they need more counters but decent cheap variants aren't around.

HyenaNipples
07-29-2013, 05:52 AM
I played Counterspell some on Halfmind's Hex Lackey CCG Plug-In. It was a constructed match, and I was facing off against a life gain deck which had just used their third Eternal Youth to pop up to around 40 health. I managed to counterspell the fourth one and beat back down for the narrow win. Counterspell is awesome.

IN the rematch I lost to Soul Marble. If you're doing any pre-alpha play constructed... I play 2 Chaos Keys in every deck now ;p

snarvid
07-29-2013, 05:53 AM
there is another interrupt but its a temporary one, in the form of Void Leech Phantasm

And with equip you can sac Cerulean Mirror Knight to change the target of a spell that's targeting one of your troops. PVE only, tho.