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Kates
08-09-2013, 11:04 AM
I think the idea of guilds is great, and think it is similarly great that so many of you have already aligned yourselves. Will there be a place for newbies in guilds? OR will we be like so many fat kids left on the sidelines of kickball tournament after kickball tournament?

Is it wiser for less experienced players to gain some solo experience before attempting to join a guild? OR would it be a shallower learning curve for us to try to play alongside more knowledgable players?

Yoss
08-09-2013, 11:05 AM
I expect there will be newb-friendly guilds.

hex_colin
08-09-2013, 11:06 AM
I expect there will be newb-friendly guilds.

That will hopefully start by not calling new players "newbs" :P

Pezzle
08-09-2013, 11:21 AM
The types of guilds in Hex will be just as varied as any other game. There is no right answer to your questions. The better questions will define what you want out of a guild experience. Most guilds will be at least reasonably open to new members. Since there is no holy trinity /10/20 person raid style environment, leadership can remain unconcerned about class balance and schedules. In my experience, most guilds do reach a saturation point where adding members only leads to fragmentation inside the guild itself. I would expect Hex to follow those trends. Figure out what you want and find a guild to match.

AbandonAllHope
08-09-2013, 11:34 AM
The easiest way is always to have a friend that you know in a guild and go from there, knowing if that guild is willing to help a new player learn. If you know nobody in Hex, than there will always be situations where you can try and contact any certain Guild leaders and get to know a little about how they are and see which guild you think you would enjoy most in respect to their "appreciation" for new players.

Personally I believe you learn a game much faster in a new player friendly Guild, or in any guild for that matter. Reason being, most Guilds will want their members to become stronger and better to improve their Guild as a whole. This in term means they will usually try to help as many people as possible to learn the game to the best of their capabilities.

So to answer your Questions based on my personal Opinion:
A place for new players in Guilds depends on the type of guild, so you will have to find one that suits you best by interacting with their leaders. Usually this won't leave the fat kids in the sidelines unless you yourself place yourself in that position by not interacting in the guild or trying to make friends.
As for learning the game faster, I believe the most efficient way of learning the game is by joining a Guild that suits you, but this does not mean you won't be able to learn the game by playing it by yourself.

Aradon
08-09-2013, 11:47 AM
I expect Guilds will mostly form for the social interaction with the intent of mirroring a local play group. At almost any local shop, there are people new to the game, or not quite as good as the best players at the shop. I can't imagine there wouldn't be guilds who accept people with less experience. It's not hard to answer questions and be helpful. I'd also fully expect specifically newbie-oriented guilds whose sole purpose is to help players learn to play well. Heck, I'd join a guild like that. If there isn't one by launch, I'll make one like that :P

AbandonAllHope
08-09-2013, 11:54 AM
Even if I am in a guild that the new player in question hasn't joined, I'll always be willing to answer any questions if they sent me a message with questions relating to the game. I probably won't be joining a big guild anyways, I think I'll stick with my 7 friends, so more than enough time to help people outside the guild :D

nicosharp
08-09-2013, 11:55 AM
Our guild is pretty newb friendly. You can't expect older gamers to have all the time in the world to learn everything about the game, or to play at a competitive level, or to retain that knowledge. ;)

Gwaer
08-09-2013, 12:03 PM
Any guild named some variation of "Gwaer's the best" will always be welcome to come to me with any questions they have.

Shadowelf
08-09-2013, 12:35 PM
I love helping new people; i will help anyone that asks nicely anywhere, anytime to the best of my knowledge. When i started playing mtg (1996) at my local shop, there was a nice group of people that answered my questions and taught me the game with great patience and support (both in advice and cards). By helping others i feel i'm repaying some of those people's kindness

keldrin
08-09-2013, 09:49 PM
Basically, the only thing you might encounter, is after the game has been going awhile, the most competitive guilds, may be a bit more selective about who they offer membership to. And, as has been pointed out, there will be guilds that have enough members that they feel they are essentially full.
As for friends, a guild is a great place to make friends. And, as the game moves forward, there will be a lot of new guilds come into being. So, the current guilds, are just the tip of the iceberg.
I prefer a guild, since it's a good place to ask questions and learn. Offers a social environment, to add to the game.
But, you can certainly learn the game and become quite good without one if you desire.
That's personal preference. You may even decide to create your own guild, and then how they deal with new players will be up to you and your new guild mates.
Deck critique/recommendation and testing is potentially a huge advantage to being in a guild.
On PVE side, having a guild to raid with, will likely be a much better experience than random raid groups.

Dralon
08-09-2013, 11:21 PM
Any guild I would ever be a part of would go out of their way to help and steward new players, and not treat anyone as a 'noob'. Getting to know people through these forums, other Hex sites, and of course in game once that's an option, will give you a good idea of what guild to try out (or no guild).

Also, never feel bad about changing guilds if you find out it's not a fit for you after you join. I have made many good friends through various MMO's that I started out in guilds with, but as our playstyles changed with life circumstances, and different guilds became more amenable to those styles, or dissolved, we have remained friends none the less.

RElapse
08-10-2013, 12:09 AM
The Syndicate welcomes new players openly and we hope to teach and mentor new players and answer any questions you might have, in order to learn the game.

Barkam
08-10-2013, 12:28 AM
Our guild is pretty newb friendly. You can't expect older gamers to have all the time in the world to learn everything about the game, or to play at a competitive level, or to retain that knowledge. ;)


Woah woah woah. Slow down for a minute... What are we talking about again?

blakegrandon
08-11-2013, 05:14 AM
While I understand WHY there are guilds in Hex, I've kind of come to a personal realization that guilds are bad for gaming communities.

Hear me out before performing your kneejerk reaction of hating the idea that guilds are bad, I grew up with EQ 1 when gaming was relatively new online and there were very few resources to research quests(compare that to today where you can insert quest text or names and out comes a detailed walkthrough for pretty much every game), and where the chat system was awkwardly created.

In today's world are guilds necessary? Do they promote an overall gaming community or do they fragment the community into "cliques"?

Why join a guild? Most people would say it's for the following reason(s):

To be part of a community. (Umm, isn't playing the game and interacting with other people being part of the community)

To be around people that you know and have similar interests in (Hey, news flash, we're all playing the same game...)

To help each other out. (You mean to help a specific number of people out, I'm pretty sure you don't have to be part of a guild to help others out)

To have an "identity" and to be part of something. (Yea, I have an identity, I don't need to be part of a club in order to "fit in")

I'm a realist and while I totally understand WHY people join guilds, I have to question the value guilds add compared to what they detract from the gaming experience. I've joined family oriented guilds, zerg guilds, organized Professional guilds with their own apps, casual guilds, Newb guilds, guilds with sharks with laser beams, and so on and so forth; so it's not like I've never been a part of guilds.

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this kind of thinking and I'm sorry if this is considered a threadjack, but it amuses me to think that we "need" New player friendly guilds, instead of asking ourselves whether guilds are even necessary or even beneficial.

I'll be very hesitant to join a guild given my distaste for some aspects of larger guilds(DPK, Raid requirements, application forms, bank deposits, my first-born child, etc), and as they say I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

It's cute seeing cliques pop up in games that I play to get away from cliques...
:p

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-11-2013, 05:32 AM
So essentially, you're anti-clique. While I can understand your sentiment, guilds (or cliques to use your terminology) are beneficial for a number of reasons. Rather than listing the individual reasons though, I can sum up with this - playing with likeminded people gives you a more efficient pathway towards your goals in the game. As a single example, a group of serious, competitive PvP players getting together and joining/forming a guild means they have immediate access to other likeminded people, and can spend their time talking to guildies about deck ideas and strats, testing decklists, preparing for tournaments and so on. Without the guild, they'd have to go to various forums and chat areas looking for said likeminded people - they'd still be forming their cliques; they'd just have nowhere in game to congregate.

In my opinion, guilds are very useful in today's online games.

blakegrandon
08-11-2013, 06:38 AM
So essentially, you're anti-clique. While I can understand your sentiment, guilds (or cliques to use your terminology) are beneficial for a number of reasons.

Sure, but surely you can see how they can also be detrimental, no?

How is a guild any different from any exclusionary group that in real life could be considered "elitest"


playing with likeminded people gives you a more efficient pathway towards your goals in the game. As a single example, a group of serious, competitive PvP players getting together and joining/forming a guild means they have immediate access to other likeminded people, and can spend their time talking to guildies about deck ideas and strats, testing decklists, preparing for tournaments and so on.

As a "competitive" player I've never felt the NEED to join a group of like-minded players. I have joined "Competitive" Guilds before and in my opinion they actually hinder more than they help because you spend more time being critiqued than you do actually playing.


Without the guild, they'd have to go to various forums and chat areas looking for said likeminded people - they'd still be forming their cliques; they'd just have nowhere in game to congregate.

In my opinion, guilds are very useful in today's online games.

None of what you stated requires leaving the game in order to congregate IF the game is set up to incorporate deck testing, collaborating on ideas and strats, and having a good communication system set up in the game.

I guess my point is that I see guilds as a hindrance to true collaboration because it creates selective feedback and limits your audience.

Some of my best friends I've met via in game chat, and rarely was it through a guild. It almost seems like sometimes a guild leads to less socializing because people already "have" friends at the outset.

I'd love to see a future system of "guilds" that is less exclusionary and less clique, there should be no need to label your guild "Newbie Friendly", the fact that there are threads like this show an issue with the way guilds are fundamentally set up.

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-11-2013, 07:28 AM
Sure, but surely you can see how they can also be detrimental, no?

How is a guild any different from any exclusionary group that in real life could be considered "elitist"
Well, firstly, elitist only applies to those who are, y'know, acting elitist. Firstly, let's define "elitist" - we can't just use the dictionary definition, as that talks about elitism in an overall society sense, and not in reference to specific video game elitists. A quick Google found me this article (http://gamingpsych.blogspot.com.au/2010/12/video-game-elitist.html), which had this definition of a VG elitist which I feel is apt:

A video game elitist is an individual who only socializes with others that they deem worthy. Within video games they create a clique (commonly a guild or clan) and only allow those individuals to participate in their activities while viewing themselves better than everyone else in the society.

So, a guild in a game is a group that only interacts with people they feel are worthy might be considered elitist. From my ~8 years experience in WoW, most guilds, even the top guilds, aren't entirely like this. They may have an elitist attitude towards their top end raiding or PvP fragments - ie. "you can't raid with us or PvP with us unless you're the best" - but the overall attitude of many, and dare I say most guilds is welcoming to many not-top-tier players. They're friendly places for socialization. To translate to real life, this might be like a group of Magic players who have nights where they'll play with anyone and everyone, just having casual fun games.

But there are definitely elitist fragments in guilds, and some guilds who are entirely elitist. I ask you, is this a bad thing? A group of players getting together, wanting to be the best possible at their goal (ie. be at the top of the food chain for competitive PvP, or be the leading group of players at endgame PvE)? And my opinion is no. These players, getting together, putting their likely high caliber theories and ideas together (after all, they're not likely to get into such a group unless they can demonstrate they have a high level of ability) are likely to come up with strong decklists and strategies, and as a result do very well.

To compare this to real life, the vast majority of Magic pros have high level teams they deckbuild and test with. They don't invite just anyone to join these teams - you have to be good. This follows our definition of elitism, and they've demonstrated that it helps them achieve their goals.



As a "competitive" player I've never felt the NEED to join a group of like-minded players. I have joined "Competitive" Guilds before and in my opinion they actually hinder more than they help because you spend more time being critiqued than you do actually playing.
A competitive player at what? And how competitive? I've not been a top level Magic player myself, but I've seen how these people operate and it's very efficient and productive. And the results speak for themselves.

As a WoW player who actually has participated in competitive raiding, I can tell you that the guilds that do look for the best of the best and don't allow just anyone to raid in their main teams do better than otherwise. When was the last time you saw a no-guild raid claim a world first, or even rank highly in the list? :-P




None of what you stated requires leaving the game in order to congregate IF the game is set up to incorporate deck testing, collaborating on ideas and strats, and having a good communication system set up in the game.
Players won't need to look outside the game. But even if there's good in game chat, it'll require the exact players you're looking for being on at the exact same time as you. You add them to your friends list, have some games, then next time if they're not online, you have to do it all over again. A guild saves all that hassle. Guilds are by no means necessary - my point is that they're highly useful. I suppose it's like saying that "sneakers aren't necessary to go jogging, you can do it in skate shoes". That might be true, but sneakers are still very useful for jogging. ;-)


I guess my point is that I see guilds as a hindrance to true collaboration because it creates selective feedback and limits your audience.
Selective feedback can be a very good thing. You don't want feedback from people who don't know what they're talking about, or are on a significantly different playing level to you. It's inefficient having to work through that feedback. And if you want that wider feedback just in case you're afraid you've missed something? Well, you can always, y'know, go to the in game chat or forums then. :-P You're aren't limited to just your guild.


I'd love to see a future system of "guilds" that is less exclusionary and less clique, there should be no need to label your guild "Newbie Friendly", the fact that there are threads like this show an issue with the way guilds are fundamentally set up.
Different guilds have different purposes. This person in particular isn't too familiar with guilds. There are definitely newbie friendly guilds in most games, and they're a great place for newer players to congregate, as they have similar goals (to get into the game).

blakegrandon
08-11-2013, 08:12 AM
Well, firstly, elitist only applies to those who are, y'know, acting elitist.

So you don't believe elitism is a big issue in gaming?




So, a guild in a game is a group that only interacts with people they feel are worthy might be considered elitist. From my ~8 years experience in WoW, most guilds, even the top guilds, aren't entirely like this. They may have an elitist attitude towards their top end raiding or PvP fragments - ie. "you can't raid with us or PvP with us unless you're the best" - but the overall attitude of many, and dare I say most guilds is welcoming to many not-top-tier players. They're friendly places for socialization. To translate to real life, this might be like a group of Magic players who have nights where they'll play with anyone and everyone, just having casual fun games.

You and I played very different versions of WOW then, I played since WOW first came out(and for dozens of MMORPGS prior) and there has always been a toxic element when it comes to guilds.

They're friendly places for socialization when you are IN the guild, my argument is that they're unnecessary because they're creating cliques where none need to be created.

Guilds are walls constructed to create cliques, walls are constructed to keep people out, not to build a community.

Guilds in real life would be a country club where you have to be X to get in, not like your local gaming group where everyone is invited.




But there are definitely elitist fragments in guilds, and some guilds who are entirely elitist. I ask you, is this a bad thing?

Yes, that's my entire argument, that elitism tears apart a community rather than building one up. I worship no false idols and the only difference between the elite and regular gamers IS time and money(which I will get into later).



To compare this to real life, the vast majority of Magic pros have high level teams they deckbuild and test with. They don't invite just anyone to join these teams - you have to be good. This follows our definition of elitism, and they've demonstrated that it helps them achieve their goals.


I disagree, I grew up in a gaming store and everyone was welcome to train with the best players. We fostered a community, we didn't segment our gamers based on their skills and what "they" could bring to the table.



A competitive player at what? And how competitive? I've not been a top level Magic player myself, but I've seen how these people operate and it's very efficient and productive. And the results speak for themselves.

At one point I was training on the pro circuit for Starcraft 1, DOTA, and Starcraft 2.

I also played Pokemon and MTG competitively. My dad was a much better player than I was and went to the pro tour multiple times. We owned a gaming store that was INCLUSIVE to everyone and we had tons of Pro Players get their start in our store. Hell it's been closed for almost a decade and there are still weekly get togethers.





As a WoW player who actually has participated in competitive raiding, I can tell you that the guilds that do look for the best of the best and don't allow just anyone to raid in their main teams do better than otherwise. When was the last time you saw a no-guild raid claim a world first, or even rank highly in the list? :-P


As a ex-WOW player that participated in competitive raiding since the game came out, I laughed at guilds that wanted me to prove my E-Peen ability. I had my shit together, the guilds I joined knew I had my shit together, and any guilds I joined did allow pretty much anyone to raid with them.




Different guilds have different purposes. This person in particular isn't too familiar with guilds. There are definitely newbie friendly guilds in most games, and they're a great place for newer players to congregate, as they have similar goals (to get into the game).

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because I definitely feel there are toxic elements when it comes to guilds and that a modern game shouldn't need guilds in order to foster a community.

At the end of the day guilds that AREN'T Noob friendly need to realize that they were at one point Newbs too.

But hey, who am I to call for people to stop being elitist and to embrace each other?

Dangit... I sound like a hippie. Normally I'm the one calling for elitists to be elitist just to piss off the hippies, what the heck has happened here???

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-11-2013, 08:48 AM
So you don't believe elitism is a big issue in gaming?
I do not. In the popular games I've played, having elitist segments has actually helped the community at large - for the record, these elitist segments aren't always, or even usually antisocial or rude. They just have criteria as to who or what they listen to, and what ideas they'll accept or not (ie. if an idea sounds outlandish and isn't coming from a reputable source, they won't accept it - for example, the Channel Fireball team wouldn't accept me telling them that Heroes' Reunion is going to be a top tier card M14 standard).


You and I played very different versions of WOW then, I played since WOW first came out(and for dozens of MMORPGS prior) and there has always been a toxic element when it comes to guilds.
I also played WoW from very early on in the vanilla, and I never had toxic experiences with guilds. What experiences are you talking about? I never had a player refusing to talk to me because I wasn't in a guild, or a guild having a go at me, or anything like that. Are you talking about how guilds might have guild-member group runs, or might prefer to play with guild members rather than otherwise? That's generally because it's more efficient. Efficiency is a good thing, and much moreso when you get to the higher levels of gameplay.


They're friendly places for socialization when you are IN the guild, my argument is that they're unnecessary because they're creating cliques where none need to be created.
You say that there need to be no cliques. I agree that there don't need to be. However, that's only because you're using the word need. I don't need to go to uni, but if I want to advance my intellect, it's something I should do. In my opinion, 'cliques' - which I feel is a derogative term anyway, so I'm going to start calling them specific groups - specific groups in a game are a good thing. It's very easy to explain this logically. Let's say my goal is to be one of the top PvP players in Hex. Without a guild or similar grouping system, I have to seek out and assess every player who claims to have a similar goal, until I can find enough players who both have that goal and have the means to help me (and in return I'll likely be helping them), and then I'll be continually collaborating with this player from then on out. With a guild system, I or another player can establish a guild and clearly state that as our goal (that is, to be the best PvP players around), and we can all gravitate towards this guild, without having to 'interview' a hundred players who either aren't interested in being top PvP players, or who are but don't actually have the right stuff.


Guilds are walls constructed to create cliques, walls are constructed to keep people out, not to build a community.
This is a very pessimistic view. Guilds are groups for people with similar mindsets to go and meet people with similar mindsets, and work with those people towards similar goals, be it having fun in Hex, being the best at PvE or PvP, trying to collect every card, trying to learn how to play, and so on.


Guilds in real life would be a country club where you have to be X to get in, not like your local gaming group where everyone is invited.
You're talking about specific high end guilds with a competitive goal, who may refuse entry to certain people because they'll detract from reaching that goal - and from my experience, most high end guilds aren't even like that. They'll be more than happy to let people in to socially play with them. I was in one of the best guilds on my server when I stopped playing WoW, and I'd say about 80% of our members weren't even raiders.

Essentially, an analogy in real life would be, say, a competitive guild - which seems to be this exclusive type of guild that you're worried about - would be akin to, say, a group of Christians that get together to socialize and chat. They might turn away someone of a different religion (and judging from Christian doctrine I imagine they would be very welcoming), but that person might find they don't have much in common with the group. Similarly, a hardcore competitive guild probably wouldn't turn someone away, but that person might find they don't have much in common with the min-max at any cost guild members.


Yes, that's my entire argument, that elitism tears apart a community rather than building one up. I worship no false idols and the only difference between the elite and regular gamers IS time and money(which I will get into later).
Not necessarily. Usually the 'elite' in a game are there because of experience and skill. Admittedly, they may devote more time and money into a game in order to gain that experience and skill, but that's the means, not the end. Arrogant, exclusive elitists might damage a community, but having elite, competitive players in a game isn't a bad thing.


I disagree, I grew up in a gaming store and everyone was welcome to train with the best players. We fostered a community, we didn't segment our gamers based on their skills and what "they" could bring to the table.
Let me turn it around on you. Say that you live near the players on the Channel Fireball team. They're getting ready for the next Pro Tour. You ask to play with them when they next decktest, and they agree, because they're nice people like that (and most of them are). You bring a not-top-tier deck, misplay, and then when talking about deck choices make some wild and unlikely claims, like that Merfolk of the Pearl Trident is a sleeper card that will take the PT by storm. Do you think they'd prefer to decktest with you again, or someone up to their own calibre?

They'll probably be happy to casually game with you or to chat with you here and there, but when it comes to top level play they'll probably look for people up to their mettle, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.


At one point I was training on the pro circuit for Starcraft 1, DOTA, and Starcraft 2.

I also played Pokemon and MTG competitively. My dad was a much better player than I was and went to the pro tour multiple times. We owned a gaming store that was INCLUSIVE to everyone and we had tons of Pro Players get their start in our store. Hell it's been closed for almost a decade and there are still weekly get togethers.
Cool bananas. Have you ever been near the top of the game? Or legitimately professional? :-P I'm not trying to be rude, but besides a prodigy here and there, having the right competitive mindset is usually quite beneficial for a high level player, if not a necessity. Now, the competitive mindset isn't "be rude to those who aren't as good" or "don't talk to anyone who isn't at the same level" - but it is about maximising the time and resources you have to get as good as possible. Guilds help you do that.


As a ex-WOW player that participated in competitive raiding since the game came out, I laughed at guilds that wanted me to prove my E-Peen ability. I had my shit together, the guilds I joined knew I had my shit together, and any guilds I joined did allow pretty much anyone to raid with them.
What's your definition of competitive then? Because we both know that guilds that let bad players raid with them don't do as well as guilds that have the best players all pulling their weight. A guild that truly wishes to compete and go for realm and world firsts is not so loose with their selection policies.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because I definitely feel there are toxic elements when it comes to guilds and that a modern game shouldn't need guilds in order to foster a community.
You have a pessimistic view on guild that I don't think is shared by many (argument to the majority, I know), and I've had mostly good experiences with guilds. Actually, the only bad experiences I've had with guilds is when my goals didn't line up with theirs, and I'm fine with that. The upside to finding a guild that has the same goals at you is totally worth it.


At the end of the day guilds that AREN'T Noob friendly need to realize that they were at one point Newbs too.
How many guilds aren't actually newb friendly though? Most guilds are accepting of new players, and will invite them in to hang out and be social, even if they're a top tier PvP or PvE guild. The OP didn't realise this, and asked if there would be any guilds specifically for new players, and I'm sure there will be.


But hey, who am I to call for people to stop being elitist and to embrace each other?
This is a dirty statement, I feel. You've almost claimed here that anyone who supports the ideas of guilds supports rude elitists (at least, the feeling I've gotten from you is that all elitists are the kind that won't socialise or be friendly with not-top-tier players) and will exclude large sections of the playerbase. Guilds aren't about exclusion - that's a pessimistic view. Guilds are about finding likeminded people in order to get the most out of your playtime and gaming experience.

Gwaer
08-11-2013, 10:30 AM
Pretty much all of my best experiences involve guilds. I'm real life friends with about 20 people I met in a wow guild. We have a Facebook group and all keep in touch. None of us play wow anymore. But we still try new games and play together. I don't talk to anyone that was in my EQ1 guild. But I still look back on them fondly and regret that we drifted apart. Guilds have consistently been a major positive experience in my gaming history.

blakegrandon
08-11-2013, 01:59 PM
Guilds have consistently been a major positive experience in my gaming history.

Shrugs, maybe I've just seen too much guild drama, too much infighting, and too much elitism in guilds over the years. Have there been positive experiences? Absolutely, but most of them occurred from playing the game, not because I was in a guild.

I just hope they crack down on guild spamming in game... I really dislike it when I either have to turn off chat or put people I don't know on ignore just to be able to talk to others.

Maybe I'll make my own guild, will be the most non-Competitive competitive guild ever.

One thing that baffles me is how do people assume that they'll get their chosen guild name? Back in my day we formed guilds organically in the game while walking up hills both ways, but we had bard speed so really it was all good...

Dralon
08-11-2013, 04:00 PM
There will always be cliques, and there will always be elite players who want to stay in that clique and those who will play with non elites too ( and know how to without being condescending). This is true both at physical game shops and in online games. There is no reason though because of those facts, to have a blanket statement that all guilds are bad for games. Elite, exclusive guilds, casual guilds, and all those in between, can be great for players and for the game.

Yoss
08-11-2013, 05:40 PM
That will hopefully start by not calling new players "newbs" :P
I suppose my slang might be off, but my understanding is that "newb" is not derogatory; it is descriptive of a new player, and everyone is a newb at some point. "Noob" is derogatory, indicating inability to progress beyond "newb". YMMV.

Jormungandr
08-11-2013, 06:04 PM
I suppose my slang might be off, but my understanding is that "newb" is not derogatory; it is descriptive of a new player, and everyone is a newb at some point. "Noob" is derogatory, indicating inability to progress beyond "newb". YMMV.

If so, I think that's not necessarily universally accepted. Calling someone a Newb or a Noob is just a difference in spelling from where I'm sitting. I was not previously aware of a difference in meaning, and I've seen both spellings used in a derogatory fashion. I think the best plan is to use "new player" when talking about new players if you don't want to inadvertently be insulting. That's just my two cents, though, and perhaps the difference in meaning is more accepted than I think.

Gwaer
08-11-2013, 06:15 PM
I don't think there's much difference between spellings either, but I support the usage of both. Virtually anything can be used in a derogatory fashion. I can talk down to someone calling them a new player just as easily as a noob. Noob's easier to type, I've called myself a noob many times when I am new at something. It really shouldn't be insulting.

Kami
08-11-2013, 06:19 PM
The way I always understood it is:

Newb (i.e. newbie) is a player who is new or inexperienced but is willing to learn.

Noob is an insult and typically is a player who may be new or inexperienced but is cocky and pretends to know better than players who are actually better than them. Generally unwilling to learn.

Aradon
08-11-2013, 06:31 PM
The way I always understood it is:

Newb (i.e. newbie) is a player who is new or inexperienced but is willing to learn.

Noob is an insult and typically is a player who may be new or inexperienced but is cocky and pretends to know better than players who are actually better than them. Generally unwilling to learn.

This matches my experience/expectations as well.

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-11-2013, 10:30 PM
I'm with Kami, Yoss and Aradon - my experiences have lead to newb being a reference to a newbie player, some who's new at the game, but generally polite and friendly, whereas a noob is someone who isn't very good at the game but is overly arrogant considering (like, for example, a terrible WoW player who claims to be better than everyone and will act like you've committed murder if you try to give any constructive criticism).

WWKnight
08-12-2013, 04:31 AM
While I understand WHY there are guilds in Hex, I've kind of come to a personal realization that guilds are bad for gaming communities.

Hear me out before performing your kneejerk reaction of hating the idea that guilds are bad, I grew up with EQ 1 when gaming was relatively new online and there were very few resources to research quests(compare that to today where you can insert quest text or names and out comes a detailed walkthrough for pretty much every game), and where the chat system was awkwardly created.

In today's world are guilds necessary? Do they promote an overall gaming community or do they fragment the community into "cliques"?

Why join a guild? Most people would say it's for the following reason(s):

To be part of a community. (Umm, isn't playing the game and interacting with other people being part of the community)

To be around people that you know and have similar interests in (Hey, news flash, we're all playing the same game...)

To help each other out. (You mean to help a specific number of people out, I'm pretty sure you don't have to be part of a guild to help others out)

To have an "identity" and to be part of something. (Yea, I have an identity, I don't need to be part of a club in order to "fit in")

I'm a realist and while I totally understand WHY people join guilds, I have to question the value guilds add compared to what they detract from the gaming experience. I've joined family oriented guilds, zerg guilds, organized Professional guilds with their own apps, casual guilds, Newb guilds, guilds with sharks with laser beams, and so on and so forth; so it's not like I've never been a part of guilds.

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this kind of thinking and I'm sorry if this is considered a threadjack, but it amuses me to think that we "need" New player friendly guilds, instead of asking ourselves whether guilds are even necessary or even beneficial.

I'll be very hesitant to join a guild given my distaste for some aspects of larger guilds(DPK, Raid requirements, application forms, bank deposits, my first-born child, etc), and as they say I donít care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

It's cute seeing cliques pop up in games that I play to get away from cliques...
:p

While I havent been overly active in the wider Hex community while I have been building up my website, I do feel you are WAY OFF BASE in regards to this community and this community alone.

There is a lot of good will and friendly nature between the current guilds, which I do not find surprising. To start a guild 4 months before a game launches is to have a commitment to healthy community. So while we are all under different affiliations, we are all here to see the goal of a healthy, vibrant, Hex community.

The Hex content creators on Youtube give each other regular shout outs, the big guilds of this game all act as shepards, and acitvely and helpfully help out those seeking answers. While your past experience of guilds have probably tainted the idea, its in the Hex community where I am seeing Guilds do waht guilds are meant to do. Make the wider community healthier.

I think as long as these established guilds stay big and at the forefront, they will be an example to all future guilds and our community will be a very strong and healthy one.

blakegrandon
08-12-2013, 07:29 AM
While I havent been overly active in the wider Hex community while I have been building up my website, I do feel you are WAY OFF BASE in regards to this community and this community alone.

First, none of my argument pertained to this community in particular, I was discussing whether or not guilds are really necessary in today's gaming world. I believe that while they can be a good thing they can also lead to people keeping to themselves as opposed to getting to know others.

Second, While I agree with you that for the most part the community is healthy and vibrant now, can you say the same of ANY online game forum that has launched?

Once release rolls around I'll probably stop going to the forums, I really don't mean to sound pessimistic but I've never seen an online game's forum stay healthy and non-toxic once release rolls around.

I just hope this game gets to the popularity that WOW once had, without the forums that WOW has... :-p

Shadowspawn
08-12-2013, 08:13 AM
Hi Kates,

Please head over to the Guild Forums for more details on various guild styles, etc. I am the Guildmaster of Alchemy and a Guildmaster KS backer (meaning all guild members get 10% xp bonuses). As an FYI, I am a "newb" to TCG's myself... having just started learning on Magic: Duels of the Planeswalkers. We are going to be a "structured casual" guild, meaning it will be VERY newb friendly. Check out some of the other guilds. I don't plan on growing the guild to more than 50-75 people ( I like medium sized guilds), but if that is your cup of tea then check out the under construction guild website here:

http://hexalchemy.enjin.com/

Have fun!

Kates
08-12-2013, 04:49 PM
The OP didn't realise this, and asked if there would be any guilds specifically for new players, and I'm sure there will be.

Not exactly. I wasn't asking if there would be guilds specifically for new players. I was asking to what degree guilds would be welcoming to new players. Your post seems to be somewhat contradictory on this. You say that competitive guilds will both welcome and socialize with new players, but had previously stated that guilds with bad players don't do as well as those with better players. The latter point is exactly what I'm afraid of. Many of you have suggested the best way to learn is from a friend. I do already have an in-game friend and have concerns about holding him back during raids because of the learning curve for me.

I think good arguments have been made both for and against guilds. It would seem that it depends on the guild and the individual player as to whether it would be an overall positive experience. I suppose this like many other things discussed on these forums can only really be decided once we start playing. Thanks for the advice!

Shadowspawn, I'll definitely check it out.

RobHaven
08-13-2013, 05:41 AM
Kate, remember when that dude Beard came by to hang out? He's a guy I met through my WoW guild. All of my favorite memories from WoW came from playing with my brother, Beard, and other friends - almost all of which I only know because my brother brought me into their guild. I'm a couple of years removed from WoW and I still talk to/hang out with a few of those guys.

Point being that the most important aspect of a guild for me - and I suspect for you also - will be the relationships you can develop. You're in the game weekly - daily for some people - with your guildmates (aka guildies); you're working through content, learning from each other, and having fun taking on challenges. These are experiences and memories to build a friendship on, and that has proven to be pretty strong for me. If you're the type of person who enjoys engaging others, learning from and about others, and diving head-first into anything in your way, then you'll probably find yourself quickly building a number of friendships with those around you.

I suspect that even if you don't start in a guild with friends, you will absolutely end in a guild with friends.

ps: I promise you, you will not be holding anyone back. We'll have fun playing together, and we'll learn the content together. Some of us have a head-start on deck building, but none of us have experienced the PvE. Everyone in the game will be learning it (from scratch) at the same time.

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-13-2013, 06:17 AM
Your post seems to be somewhat contradictory on this. You say that competitive guilds will both welcome and socialize with new players, but had previously stated that guilds with bad players don't do as well as those with better players. The latter point is exactly what I'm afraid of.
Sorry if it seemed contradictory, but that wasn't the intent.

Essentially, a competitive guild, be it PvP or PvE (or even both) will usually not be entirely open-door when it comes to top level playing. Now, as most competitive people know, they'll at least hear out anyone or give them a chance, but one of the key resources that any person has available to them is time, so it needs to be rationed wisely - so basically, when it comes to competitive PvP theorycrafting and decktesting, a competitive player is going to do it with the people they know are the best. When it comes to competitive raiding (which in Hex's case is going for various firsts, be it a world first or a person's first clear of a raid, or some other sort of first), they're going to go with the people that have proven they're up to the challenge, or at least have given signs that they are.

However, most of these guilds will be welcoming of most, and in all likelihood all friendly, social players that want to join. Let's say new-to-TCGs Jim joins the top PvP guild on the server. The people in the guild will be friendly with him and chat, and might offer him deckbuilding advice and have casual games with it, join him on raids and all that - but when it comes to decktesting to try and find the decks that dominate the meta, or preparing for a big upcoming tournament like a world qualifier, they're likely going to talk to the people in the guild that are on top of their game.

I remember in my last guild on WoW, it was a competitive raiding guild. About 90% of players weren't competitive raiders, and we all just hung out, chat, did various dungeon runs and LFR versions of raids, and had a great time. If anyone wanted advice on anything, I was more than happy to help, and if anyone had an idea they thought would be good in our main team raid runs, I'd listen to it, even if it came from someone that hadn't ever raided seriously before - ideas should be judged on their merit, not on the experience of the person stating it. The one differentiating factor was that when it came time to form up for our main team's raid runs, I wouldn't expect to see most of those people, and everyone was fine with that. Though the odd time we were short people and one of the not-usually-a-main-raider members got invited to fill a spot, we'd certainly give them a chance.

TL;DR - while being in a guild labelling themselves competitive won't be for everyone, those guilds are in all likelihood going to be very welcoming and friendly of all players. As far as I know most of the guilds labelling themselves as competitive atm are also very welcoming of new and social players.