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nearlysober
08-12-2013, 01:10 PM
PAX is unfortunately the same weekend as Dragoncon and on Friday's update we heard Cory, Ben & Chris will be at Dragoncon, but HEX will not be playable.

Looks like at least Kyle will be at PAX though, he'll be a panel speaker at "Digital Dealing: The Up and Coming World of Digital CCGs"... which unfortunately slotted up against my favorite annual panel "Penny Arcade Make-a-Strip!".

CZE always has a good presence at PAX, I always look forward to hanging out in their tourney room playing some WoWTCG (and the Penny-Arcade: Gamers vs. Evil tourney last year).

I'm hoping that the reason that HEX will not be playable at Dragoncon is because it will be playable at PAX :)

Anyway... one way or another it'd be nice to get some info on what is coming to PAX...

elfstone
08-16-2013, 04:38 AM
Id love to know as well, im volunteering to help demo some 40k games and/or helping run a 40k tourney, and would love to know what day(s) I should slot as my go have fun days :)

nearlysober
08-16-2013, 11:37 AM
Hopefully some news today :)

Or maybe they want to keep it a surprise for after GenCon... but since PAX is one of the biggest gaming conventions/festivals around AND it's coming up soon... i hope something cool is in store for it.

syphonhail
08-17-2013, 12:06 AM
Looking at the exhibitors map, I do not see crypto.

nearlysober
08-20-2013, 02:25 PM
That is... extremely disappointing.

Skipping the largest gaming convention in the US, one that Cryptozoic has frequently come to in the past, while launching their most important project ever... odd business choice.

the_artic_one
08-20-2013, 04:11 PM
They're probably skipping it since it's so close to GenCon. The fact that they picked Gencon over PAX shows that their primary target is TCG players, not Gamers. It makes sense, Hex is more about being a TCG than being a video game.

Xenavire
08-20-2013, 04:17 PM
They're probably skipping it since it's so close to GenCon. The fact that they picked Gencon over PAX shows that their primary target is TCG players, not Gamers. It makes sense, Hex is more about being a TCG than being a video game.

Probably the same reason they are not attending Gamescon in Germany (well, that and the task of attending would be difficult for them.) It would be a huge chance for them to get some international coverage, and it seems at first glance to be an odd decision, but they probably see it as being too difficult for the payout.

I do see less people who play TCG's attending Gamescon than the typical hardcore PC and console gamers, so I can see their point, but it would still give them a wider coverage if they attended.

Vengus
08-20-2013, 04:22 PM
I guess time and money are the reasons why they aren't going to every convention. For example going to Gamescom would mean sending people overseas and with Gamescom lasting 5 days, having to fly, etc they would be gone for a week. With the game hopefully going alpha next month I don't think they would want to waste 3 weeks on going to conventions even with the wide coverage.

Madican
08-20-2013, 04:23 PM
They'll probably attend PAX next year, once Hex has been officially released. Keep in mind that right now the community is mostly composed of Kickstarter or Slacker backers. It's going to grow exponentially after Hex opens to everybody.

Xenavire
08-20-2013, 04:32 PM
I guess time and money are the reasons why they aren't going to every convention. For example going to Gamescom would mean sending people overseas and with Gamescom lasting 5 days, having to fly, etc they would be gone for a week. With the game hopefully going alpha next month I don't think they would want to waste 3 weeks on going to conventions even with the wide coverage.

I fully understand, 5 days is brutal with the dev time lost. But they have barely any European exposure, and they have a huge potential playerbase here - I know from experience that playing MTG here can be a pain in the ass. (MTG can be substituted with almost any TCG in this example. Just trying to show they have the potential to gain a large base who are unhappy with the options they currently have.)

Miwa
08-20-2013, 04:33 PM
That is... extremely disappointing.

Skipping the largest gaming convention in the US, one that Cryptozoic has frequently come to in the past, while launching their most important project ever... odd business choice.
They didn't skip the largest gaming con. They were just at it. Well, if you aren't counting Essen.

Shadowelf
08-20-2013, 04:42 PM
I would love if they come to Europe (they said they will in the future), but maybe their main priority is to have the game up and running before expanding overseas; fitting all the apples in the same basket at the same time, may be more than they can handle at the moment, concering time and resources. Also strategically and economically speaking, you first establish a self-sustaining base then attempting to expand

Xenavire
08-20-2013, 04:49 PM
I would love if they come to Europe (they said they will in the future), but maybe their main priority is to have the game up and running before expanding overseas; fitting all the apples in the same basket at the same time, may be more than they can handle at the moment, concering time and resources. Also strategically and economically speaking, you first establish a self-sustaining base then attempting to expand

Yeah, it is a fact I have come to terms with, they aren't in a position to make that gamble right now. The timing is just terrible too. But I would put money on them being in Europe for next years Gamescon (which is basically the largest con in Europe).

If they had the chance to though, it would be a good move as long as it wasn't detrimental to the development. But it seems like Con season - many big cons after each other, I think a huge chunk of the kickstarter money would be used up to attend them all, not to mention they would run themselves ragged. I mean the last few weeks there have beens cons in France, Japan, several in the US, and this weekend is Gamescon, and I think Dragoncon and Pax are both around the corner. To attend them all would be inhuman.

syphonhail
08-20-2013, 05:55 PM
They didn't skip the largest gaming con. They were just at it. Well, if you aren't counting Essen.

Gencon in 2012 had 41,000 people. Pax prime in 2012 had 70,000 people.

Miwa
08-20-2013, 06:36 PM
Gencon in 2012 had 41,000 people. Pax prime in 2012 had 70,000 people.
Before posting that number I dug around to see if I was making stuff up. The comparable number I believe to the 70k for PAX is 141k for GenCON this year. The matching number to 41k I believe was 29k. And Essen is bigger than GenCON.

nearlysober
08-20-2013, 06:42 PM
Regardless of which is bigger... PAX isn't about videogames, it's about GAMES. Tabletop & Video.

And it's very important that PAX is about both, and crosses the line so well. If it weren't for PAX, I wouldn't be a late-in-life tabletop player. I completely grew up on videogames only. PAX is my annual exposure to the other side of the gaming world, and through PAX is how I found Cryptozoic (it helps that Cryptozoic showed up).

Penny-Arcade: Gamers vs. Evil, Food Fight, Epic Duel Wizards of Mt. Skullzfyre... without PAX I probably wouldn't be playing any of those games. I wouldn't have played WoWTCG in the past.

I'm not the only one that looks to PAX to blend the gaming worlds together... and since this game is about blending video & tabletop... seems like it would've been a good fit.

Xenavire
08-20-2013, 08:08 PM
Only geeks argue about the size of their cons...

*innuendo successful*

syphonhail
08-20-2013, 10:56 PM
Before posting that number I dug around to see if I was making stuff up. The comparable number I believe to the 70k for PAX is 141k for GenCON this year. The matching number to 41k I believe was 29k. And Essen is bigger than GenCON.

I see 49,058 for Gencon in 2013. Pax prime has yet to occur. I am not sure how you are matching these numbers or where you are getting them from. I would be surprised if a midwest city with expensive flights has a higher attendance than a cross-genre conference in a coastal city that has better press and cheaper costs.

If you claim those numbers are matching, as opposed to the self-reporting numbers I am using, you have to be a bit less opaque about your methodology.

Patrigan
08-20-2013, 11:57 PM
I see 49,058 for Gencon in 2013. Pax prime has yet to occur. I am not sure how you are matching these numbers or where you are getting them from. I would be surprised if a midwest city with expensive flights has a higher attendance than a cross-genre conference in a coastal city that has better press and cheaper costs.

If you claim those numbers are matching, as opposed to the self-reporting numbers I am using, you have to be a bit less opaque about your methodology.

Both of you are talking next to each other.
GenCon 2012: 134.775 attendants, of which 41.000 unique.
Pax Prime 2012 has about 70.000 attendees, apparently Pax only releases the turnstile attendees and not the unique ones. I also didn't find a good legit source, but they match syphonhails.

So GenCon > Pax Prime.

For comparson, I found 154.000 for Spiel Essen 2011. But more importantly, 275.000 for Gamescom 2012 (Gamescom 2013 is happening right now). So yes, CZE should really look into attending gamescom next year.

(for the unaware: turnstile attendees is the sum of the total number of attendees on each day. While unique trims that number to the number of unique visitors, disregarding how many days they actually came)

edit: Sources
http://community.gencon.com/forums/t/29972.aspx
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/158738/attendance-pax-east-2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiel
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/19/gamescom-2012-attendance-over-275-000/

Shadowelf
08-21-2013, 05:40 AM
They will be at Dragon Con in 2 weeks, although they won't be having an official presence there, and no playable version of the game.
But it will be yet another nice advertisment for the game ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/564905#comments)

syphonhail
08-21-2013, 08:04 AM
Both of you are talking next to each other.
GenCon 2012: 134.775 attendants, of which 41.000 unique.
Pax Prime 2012 has about 70.000 attendees, apparently Pax only releases the turnstile attendees and not the unique ones. I also didn't find a good legit source, but they match syphonhails.

So GenCon > Pax Prime.

For comparson, I found 154.000 for Spiel Essen 2011. But more importantly, 275.000 for Gamescom 2012 (Gamescom 2013 is happening right now). So yes, CZE should really look into attending gamescom next year.

(for the unaware: turnstile attendees is the sum of the total number of attendees on each day. While unique trims that number to the number of unique visitors, disregarding how many days they actually came)

edit: Sources
http://community.gencon.com/forums/t/29972.aspx
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/158738/attendance-pax-east-2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiel
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/19/gamescom-2012-attendance-over-275-000/


Thank you, that's what I wanted to know. I am curious how this next week will fare with PAX going up to a 4 day schedule instead of its old; though, I am guessing it is the venue that limits their growth since they usually sell out of tickets in a few hours of them going on sale.

Miwa
08-21-2013, 10:57 AM
I see 49,058 for Gencon in 2013. Pax prime has yet to occur. I am not sure how you are matching these numbers or where you are getting them from. I would be surprised if a midwest city with expensive flights has a higher attendance than a cross-genre conference in a coastal city that has better press and cheaper costs.
For reference, I used http://www.gencon.com/press/postshow2013 for GenCON numbers.

GenCON isn't quite as one-dimensional as you seem to imply...

DarkSeverance
08-21-2013, 12:13 PM
I see 49,058 for Gencon in 2013. Pax prime has yet to occur. I am not sure how you are matching these numbers or where you are getting them from. I would be surprised if a midwest city with expensive flights has a higher attendance than a cross-genre conference in a coastal city that has better press and cheaper costs.You first have to ask yourself why flights to Indianapolis are expensive... They are expensive only 2 times a year because only 2 things happen there, Indy 500 and GenCon. Flights to GenCon are cheaper for European and International travelers. GenCon for all extent and purposes is technically WotC's baby. The reason they chose there, instead of Seattle (despite their main office being in Seattle) is because of traveling for everyone not just a US centric audience. GenCon's main focus however is board games and TCGs.

PAX's main focus, despite having board games and TCGs is always Electronic Gaming. This is why Board Games, TCGs as a whole tend to have a smaller showing unless they pay for a prime location. Back when they had a TCG Hall (which was the hidden Annex) there were a lot of board gamers but nothing compared to GenCon. Now that they gave that to Halo and spread out people into side rooms, they tend to not get as much coverage. Although I would love HEX to be there... the choice they made was a valid and good decision. They would not of been able to set up HEX like they did at GenCon at PAX, there isn't a place available for that. GenCon however provided that medium for them perfectly.

For the record I don't think PAX is as much of a cross-genre conference as you think. Yes those other items are there but everything is 90% focused on Electronic Gaming. It is essentially a E3 for consumers instead of retailers.

Miwa
08-21-2013, 01:37 PM
GenCon for all extent and purposes is technically WotC's baby. The reason they chose there, instead of Seattle (despite their main office being in Seattle) is because of traveling for everyone not just a US centric audience.
They didn't really choose anything, they inherited it. :P

WotC bought Andon Games (who used to run AndCon, and then gencon and origins, and they bought TSR, the originator of GenCON. The TSR purchase gave them the show, and Andon ran it for them, until WoTC realized that Andon's system was a joke, and that they didn't really care that it was. I used to go to all 3 of those, and remember MTG coming out at GenCON in '93 and going crazy trying to get cards at Origins and AndCon...

GenCON was a long established con by the time WotC bought the dying remnants of TSR.

*edit*

The most important thing in all this is that HexCon will be in Vegas, which is probably the easiest city on the planet to book a flight to. And it's also the one city that has enough hotel space to handle any convention, unlike the pain it is to book a room near any of the big game cons.

DarkSeverance
08-21-2013, 02:15 PM
TGenCON was a long established con by the time WotC bought the dying remnants of TSR.I understand that but to a degree they did choose Indy. I didn't list the history of GenCon because it really didn't factor into it. But at the time WotC took it, they could have relocated it because it didn't have a history of it always being in Indy at that time.