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KiraForce
08-13-2013, 07:46 PM
I remember them talking during the E3 stream about possibly being able to cash in your Platinum for cash. Is there any further development on that? It kinda determines what I'm doing with my Spectral Lotuses.

Stok3d
08-13-2013, 08:03 PM
I do not remember ever hearing anything in that regard and am very confident that this will not happen directly with Cryptozoic. However, it's quite likely that a thriving secondary market will pop up that with inherent risks that may satisfy your need to "cash out your platinum".

KiraForce
08-13-2013, 08:16 PM
Well, they didn't say it out loud, from my memory. I remember asking in the chat, and the guy in charge of the official answers in the chat responded and said they were trying.

Stok3d
08-13-2013, 08:19 PM
I know they would like to do a RMAH, but it has a lot of various legalities involved. While that feature may be something they attempt to revisit later, it's not a feature that they are going to hold up the game for. Is that what you're referring to KiraForce?

KiraForce
08-13-2013, 08:21 PM
I'm not sure what RMAH stands for. I assume the AH is Auction House, but completely lost on the RM

Aradon
08-13-2013, 08:25 PM
RMAH stands for real-money auction house. And Yeah, I recall the same statement, Stok3d. Which, as far as I'm concerned, means they will eventually find a way to implement cash trading for in-game goods. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing, I don't know. A global and easy-to-access AH caused problems for D3, imo, but it's pretty much inevitable for an online TCG. I think a bigger fear in this vein is PvE net-decking, rather than worrying about RMAH issues.

Stok3d
08-13-2013, 08:26 PM
I'm not sure what RMAH stands for. I assume the AH is Auction House, but completely lost on the RM

Sorry, I have a bad habit with acronyms. I referring to the Real Money Auction House.

KiraForce
08-13-2013, 08:51 PM
I think that's what they said. Something like that. That or being able to sell your Plat back for cash at a lower value. Not sure. But they did have something where you'd be able to get money from. Or at least that they wanted it.

Gwaer
08-13-2013, 08:52 PM
I got the impression that they were actually talking about a way to cash out plat for $$. Rather than an AH implementation. But it was veiled desires, not really anything solid, could take virtually any form.

Yoss
08-13-2013, 10:53 PM
Yes, Cory said he wants this to happen, someday, somehow, somewhere over the rainbow where bluebirds fly. It's just dreams right now.

ShadowTycho
08-13-2013, 11:09 PM
Yes, Cory said he wants this to happen, someday, somehow, somewhere over the rainbow where bluebirds fly. It's just dreams right now.
it very hard to do with united state law however. i know i watched a video on it somewhere, i think it was extra credits? not sure.

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-14-2013, 12:14 AM
It kinda determines what I'm doing with my Spectral Lotuses.
Also, on this point, I'd be very surprised if people are willing to pay plat for a Spectral Lotus.

Now, a Spectral Lotus Garden on the other hand...

Chiany
08-14-2013, 12:17 AM
Now, a Spectral Lotus Garden on the other hand...

Indeed, wouldn't mind to get one more, so I get 2 playsets per day...

KiraForce
08-14-2013, 12:44 AM
Also, on this point, I'd be very surprised if people are willing to pay plat for a Spectral Lotus.

Now, a Spectral Lotus Garden on the other hand...

Well, of course. Sell Lotuses in the AH to those that didn't do KS, then sell the Garden once I've gotten enough cash for decent things for even more cash. If you can't sell it for cash ever, I'd honestly make a couple playsets of the Lotus, then sell the Garden

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-14-2013, 01:08 AM
You'll likely get gold for Lotuses, given that they're PvE only and most Kickstarters will have more than they'll be willing to use. Gardens, though, are much more desirable, and despite being PvE only have the potential to sell for plat.

keldrin
08-14-2013, 06:11 AM
I disagree. It may not be plat for lotuses at first. But I'm pretty sure there will be a plat market just a bit down the road.
My personal guess, is 2-4 lotuses per plat, depending on current supply and demand.
It seems reasonable to me, to buy and use very useful single use cards, if the pricing is $0.25 to $0.50...
But anyways, value of Lotuses is all guess work, and has been argued about in other threads.
As for plat for cash, I can't say I honestly care. I didn't invest for eventual profit.
I invested to sit on it and hoard it, hissing at people getting to close, making references to my precious.
But I totally get, some people do. And being able to potentially cash out, impacts how much people are willing to invest into the game.

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-14-2013, 07:27 AM
The thing about lotuses is that it's for PvE only, so there's no true competitive value to them outside of world firsts, so a very short window. Which essentially makes them a card which is destined to be casual only. Now, there are cards which sell for a fair amount due to their casual value in Magic, but for the most part casual only cards sell for far less than competitively viable cards.

I'm not going to say it's impossible. But given that there will be a fair few players which generate at least one copy of these casual-only cards a day, I'd honestly be more surprised than not if they sell for plat. Though I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do, seeing as I'll be getting 4 a day and only plan to use them in raids/hard mode dungeons.

KiraForce
08-14-2013, 07:44 AM
I plan on waiting a few weeks anyway, for the first wave of free Beta users to join up then chuck it into the AH, so I'm selling to people that had no chance to get it anyway. So they might be ok with paying Plat for them.

Aradon
08-14-2013, 12:09 PM
If any PvE items become plat-valuable, Lotuses might be a very reasonable investment. Burning a plat's worth to take down a raid boss and get a two-plat item isn't impossible. It'd have to be a pretty good item, and very hard encounter, to be worth two plat I think, but I'm not sure exactly how PvE rarity is going to play out.

I have a feeling that raids are going to be gear-check style rather than strategy/coordination style (to compare to WoW) in that having the right deck is going to be far more important than being a skilled player, which means that net-decking is going to make most raids farmable by most players almost immediately. It's going to be an interesting problem for CZE to handle.

zadies
08-14-2013, 12:28 PM
I have a feeling that $2 worth of plat for raid loot equipment is going to be for commons. If the pve loot has comparative rarity to legendary cards in the PvP booster... Which given some things Cory said about grinding for the equipment, not the base card, I think might be understating its rarity.

Shadowelf
08-14-2013, 03:11 PM
I remember them talking during the E3 stream about possibly being able to cash in your Platinum for cash. Is there any further development on that? It kinda determines what I'm doing with my Spectral Lotuses.

Cory was talking about the use of platinum and what he confirmed was that you will be able to buy platinum from them ; but he didn't relate it to the AH and he didn't mentioned whether you will be able to cash your platinum. Here is a link of the E3 stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20tC_cGSsY check 0:28:58 onwards. Also Cory on the RMAH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUn3gOclMc check 0:34:40 onwards

MoikPEI
08-14-2013, 03:19 PM
Thanks for the huntdown Shadowelf!

Shadowelf
08-14-2013, 03:24 PM
Thanks for the huntdown Shadowelf!

Thanks got more :) Cory on cashing out https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-geek-allstars/id446568794?ign-mpt=uo%3D4 episode 54 check 0:28:10 onwards

MoikPEI
08-14-2013, 03:48 PM
So the tl;dr I get from each of those is pretty consistently:
- Cory wants to see it happen
- But it has a super high level of legal hurdles
- Surmounting those legal hurdles would pull too many resources away from making the game awesome
- So as a result it's not on the list as a pending feature and CZE's making no commitments do it

Basically, in order to see cash-out development start, Hex would need to be stable and pulling in more money than CZE can spend.

ShadowTycho
08-15-2013, 02:17 AM
So the tl;dr I get from each of those is pretty consistently:
- Cory wants to see it happen
- But it has a super high level of legal hurdles
- Surmounting those legal hurdles would pull too many resources away from making the game awesome
- So as a result it's not on the list as a pending feature and CZE's making no commitments do it

Basically, in order to see cash-out development start, Hex would need to be stable and pulling in more money than CZE can spend.

yep.
basicly it has to do with liability and some other stuff like taxation.
Like here is a really fun thing for people to argue about.
If i farm up some pve card and then sell it for platinum and then debit the money to myself, who pays the taxes on that money? where are they paid?
if i buy a chest with plat, and then open it and get a card is that gambling?
If everyone withdraws all the money in their cryto accounts at the same time... should they have enough to cover it? is my cryptozoic account FDIC insured?
If my account is hacked and my cards are traded and then sold, are you buying stolen goods? do i get them back? do you keep them? what if the card has gone up considerably in value in the interim, who pays the difference?

Shadowelf
08-15-2013, 03:07 AM
yep.
basicly it has to do with liability and some other stuff like taxation.
Like here is a really fun thing for people to argue about.
If i farm up some pve card and then sell it for platinum and then debit the money to myself, who pays the taxes on that money? where are they paid?
if i buy a chest with plat, and then open it and get a card is that gambling?
If everyone withdraws all the money in their cryto accounts at the same time... should they have enough to cover it? is my cryptozoic account FDIC insured?
If my account is hacked and my cards are traded and then sold, are you buying stolen goods? do i get them back? do you keep them? what if the card has gone up considerably in value in the interim, who pays the difference?

Yeah you are absolutely right; also nice summary on the implications of RMAH/cash out. What Cory said multiple times is they will follow a hands off approach and let the secondary market sort of manage itself ( https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...ign-mpt=uo%3D4 episode 54 check 0:28:32). Cory also said that the first legal challenge they will try to jump over is real cash tournaments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUn3gOclMc check 0:35:20)

self1sch
08-15-2013, 09:39 AM
Why is Shadowelf not a mod-bot yet? He's always helpful, to veterans and new players alike. I don't get it :D

KiraForce
08-15-2013, 09:58 AM
Why is Shadowelf not a mod-bot yet? He's always helpful, to veterans and new players alike. I don't get it :D

His emotions always overpower the conversion process. No worries, they are working on a way to override his emotions. I'm sure the process will be perfected soon.

As far as the links to the E3 stream, I did mention that I asked in the text chat and got answered from there, so the 0 mention of a RMAH is somewhat irrelevant. I am a bit upset about the legal issues, but I wish it'll be fixed soon enough.

Aradon
08-15-2013, 11:12 AM
his emotions always overpower the conversion process. No worries, they are working on a way to override his emotions. I'm sure the process will be perfected soon.

UP-GRADE. COMPLETE.
HE. WILL. Be. UPGRADED.

Ashenor
08-15-2013, 11:21 AM
Yep hands off, might be slightly frowned upon, but there will no doubt be a secondary cash market.

I cashed out some MTGO cards today, to a site i always buy and sell from before they took to much of a hit in Oct. Makes it very easy to get in and out, hoping for a similar secondary market down the road.