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Alive
08-15-2013, 11:35 AM
I'm new to TCG's

Do we know yet what would happen in the following scenario..

I got a Vampire King and the enemy has 2 troops.
I play extinction (destroy all creatures)
Would all creatures die and then I would get 2 vampires??

Maphalux
08-15-2013, 11:47 AM
No. The reason that would not work is because the Vamp King dies too and his ability will only proc if he is still in play.

Alive
08-15-2013, 11:50 AM
Oh ok :'(

Chiany
08-15-2013, 11:51 AM
No. The reason that would not work is because the Vamp King dies too and his ability will only proc if he is still in play.

Not so fast there.
it really depends on the rules, which we don't know yet.

Maphalux
08-15-2013, 11:55 AM
Well, I'll give you that there might be some wonky rule for how things go on the chain, but it says right on the vampire card "When an opposing troop dies, if this troop is in play, transform that troop into a Vampire and put it into play under your control." With Extinction everything dies at the same time, including the King, so I can't see how his ability would be able to proc in this scenario.

ossuary
08-15-2013, 01:01 PM
We know from the Q&A with Ben Stoll that creatures who die don't "proc" their ability and instead "fizzle." So the Vampire King definitely would NOT leave 2 vampires in play. If an effect goes on the stack, but the target isn't there when the stack resolves (or in this case, the King is no longer in play himself), the effect fails - the same as in Magic.

nekoangel
08-15-2013, 01:17 PM
in wowtcg when things die simultaneously powers normally trigger upon destruction now we know nothing on these rules as has been said but it wouldn't be all that strange for it to work this way as well.

the above wording very rough though so please remember that. please dont take this as the answer either, just advice based on a situation ive seen.

its going to boil down to what the word dies does in hex and hen the timings are considered.

edit: was checking rules as writing this and seems im incorrect so disregard please =)

houjix
08-15-2013, 01:22 PM
We know from the Q&A with Ben Stoll that creatures who die don't "proc" their ability and instead "fizzle." So the Vampire King definitely would NOT leave 2 vampires in play. If an effect goes on the stack, but the target isn't there when the stack resolves (or in this case, the King is no longer in play himself), the effect fails - the same as in Magic.


That isn't quite the case here as there is no targeting involved. It's the "if" condition that is relevant in this case. In WoW, if his text was "when an opposing troops dies..." with no "if" condition, you would get the vampires as his power sees the other troops die even though he himself is dying. However with the "if" condition, the trigger will check upon resolution to see if that is still true.

If it was a blanket rule that cards don't trigger when they leave play at the same time as the event they are looking for happens, then the "if they are in play" clause is irrelevant.

Connected
08-15-2013, 02:15 PM
http://hextcg.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire_King
http://hextcg.wikia.com/wiki/Extinction

Let's talk it out.

Everything has to be coded in an order so we can refer to the "stack" as an abstract reference to the order this ends up working.

Extinction applies to all troops. Vampire King is a troop so this spell destroys Vampire King, which causes the card to die.

So you:

1. Cast Extinction.
2. All troops are destroyed - they die, including Vampire King.
3. Vampire King's ability is stacked.
4. Code logic is going to look something like this (I know a developer somewhere is going to cringe but bear with me. Imagine a dog with a chemistry set here).

If Vampire King(Player1) status = InPlay
If Troop(Player 2)= Dead Then Set Troops(Player2)=Vampire(Player1)
Set Vampire(Player1) status = InPlay

The reason for this is because the Vampire King has to be in play due the text "...if this troops is in play...". This logic will never play out because the Vampire King's status will not = InPlay. It will = NotInPlay or "Dead" so the troops will never be turned into Vampires and the spell will "sizzle" into an end statement or some such nonsense although graphically it will be much prettier. :)

Erebus
08-15-2013, 06:48 PM
I was going to argue against you Connected, but I think your right. Otherwise the text "if this troop is in play" is extraneous, as all abilities on all cards are assumed to have only effect while in play unless stated otherwise. So the statement on Vampire King might have been placed to make the mass removal cheese of Vampire King not work.

I guess the only way to know for certain is to either ask Ben at Gen Con or test it live in Alpha/Beta.

Aradon
08-15-2013, 08:26 PM
This looks like an intervening-if clause from MtG, which means that the status of Vampire King would be checked at the time of the resolution of the triggered ability. He'd have to still be in play when the ability resolves to create the token. I think. In MtG's rules, of course.

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-15-2013, 08:55 PM
Magic judge to the rescue. :-P Though Aradon's pretty much covered it - if it's working like Magic (and many/most of the rules in Hex currently work like Magic) then the intervening-if clause is the key.

The ability would still trigger initially, as the game has to look back to the pre-destruction event to see what the board state looked like, and sees Vampire King (with his triggered ability), so it goes off for each opposing troop. It goes on the stack, but when it goes to resolve, due to having an intervening-if clause, it has to check if that condition is again met - but this time, it's not, as the King also died with the Extinction. Because of this, the ability is simply removed from the stack.

If you want an example of a Magic card with this clause: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=122046 (Stalking Yeti).

Connected
08-15-2013, 11:01 PM
Thanks for clarifying jaxsonbatemanhex. :)