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Alive
08-15-2013, 12:38 PM
Question, can you gain a card to use in PvP, like King Gabriel, by playing PVE?

ursa23
08-15-2013, 12:40 PM
Not at all. It's strictly one way going in the opposite direction.

BlueRider
08-15-2013, 12:41 PM
Yes, but not many and not repeatedly. They've said there will be a few pack rewards from PvE, but they are one time only rewards that you can't farm for.

Maphalux
08-15-2013, 12:43 PM
PvP cards will only be obtained via purchased boosters, which you will be able to get directly from CZE or the auction house. You won't be able to obtain PvP cards from grinding PvE for the most part though I do believe there was talk about possibly getting a booster reward for some rare events in PvE like completing the campaign. I'm not sure if this was just talk by the community or a suggestion from someone at CZE so take that with a grain of salt.

What you might be able to do, however, is use gold obtained in PvE to purchase a PvP card off the auction house. It will depend greatly on how they set up the AH though which we don't have a lot of details on yet.

Alive
08-15-2013, 12:47 PM
I see, thanks all

ossuary
08-15-2013, 12:58 PM
3 replies, 3 different answers. ;)

BlueRider and Maphalux are the most correct, for what it's worth. Cory said there will most likely be a very small number of non-repeatable pack rewards for some PVE content, and depending on how the AH is set up, there's a pretty good chance you should be able to get commons and uncommons for a reasonable amount of gold by buying them from other players who are dumping their stuff.

felmare
08-15-2013, 02:21 PM
mostly stated above my comments with the market. use gold to buy pvp cards.

Lockon
08-15-2013, 05:26 PM
Could we at least get PVP packs for some kind of daily or maybe even weekly challenge? And I mean a challenge, not something you can do mindlessly, put us up against powerful decks, with top-notch AIs. Make us work for it, either with our wallet or our time and skill. Now, of course, no giving PVP cards as... random drops? Would we get those, and how would that work out? Anyway, don't make it something that we're guaranteed to get if we put enough hours in, so as to avoid botting, but be something that forces us to think, basically, be a challenge that only a real human being could beat. Make it a chance, not a given.

I only say this, because any F2P game that COMPLETELY bans folks from essential content(And don't BS me and say PVP cards aren't essential content. If anything, the PVE cards are the unessential content, nice but not necessary for play.) is doomed to failure as it loses its community, as they decide that the game is wasting their time, and leave. Now, I don't want Hex to suffer this fate(Would I really spend any time on this forum if I... never mind, there probably are jerks like that. Ugh, humanity.) which is why I bring it up. Someone has to point out the flaws before they can be fixed.

Hemlock
08-15-2013, 05:40 PM
Could we at least get PVP packs for some kind of daily or maybe even weekly challenge? And I mean a challenge, not something you can do mindlessly, put us up against powerful decks, with top-notch AIs. Make us work for it, either with our wallet or our time and skill. Now, of course, no giving PVP cards as... random drops? Would we get those, and how would that work out? Anyway, don't make it something that we're guaranteed to get if we put enough hours in, so as to avoid botting, but be something that forces us to think, basically, be a challenge that only a real human being could beat. Make it a chance, not a given.

CZE has made it abundantly clear that PVP cards will only exist beyond a paywall, aside from a very limited number of rewards from non-repeatable PVE content (and even that's still pretty up in the air).

I understand your contentions against F2P, but the company does still have to make money. It's either this, or a monthly subscription, and I'm not sure how that would work with a TCG.

If you're not interested in paying money for PVE content, there are a few other games out there, such as Duel of Champions, where 'PVP' cards are obtainable with gold. From what we've seen, Hex is looking to be a much higher quality game, and you have to decide for yourself whether that jump in quality is worth paying for.

Lockon
08-15-2013, 06:03 PM
But that's not good design. If they're going to do that, they might as well just go Guild Wars with it, and not even waste their time with the F2P. Either/or, because if you're going to force people to pay to actually play the game, you shouldn't even bother with F2P at all. It's a waste of everyone's time trying to get the best of both the F2P and P2P with a paywall in place, you'll just end up with the worst of both. If you're going to make it F2P, you should go whole hog with it, and make the F2P experience the best you can, or you're wasting your time. Alright? It's not fair to the F2P guys if they can't even have a chance at the ESSENTIAL content. I can live without mercs, I can live without cosmetics, but if you're going to tell me that I have to pay in order to get the bare essentials in a supposedly "free" game, you're just being a jerk. Now, I know Cryptozooic isn't made of jerks, and I honestly believe they really love this game, so someone has to tell them they're making a huge mistake. They have the whole system backwards, making the nonessentials free, and the essentials paywalled. It's like giving out cake at a soup line. Don't need sweets, need meat.

MoikPEI
08-15-2013, 06:21 PM
>Essential Content
>PvP
Not for the broad casual market that rolls the dough in through cosmetics.

Anyways, I doubt the free starter deck will be all PvE cards, and I think you may be able to buy PvP crds with gold? Between those two things you should have access to the PvP side for free.

Lockon
08-15-2013, 06:25 PM
Nope, you can't buy PVP cards for gold. Specifically said. And in a TCG, where PVE is the new and fancy thing, PVP cards ARE an essential.

MoikPEI
08-15-2013, 06:29 PM
Citation on AH mechanics not allowing purchase of PvP cards with gold?

Hemlock
08-15-2013, 06:32 PM
My statements may have been misleading; you can never buy PvP cards from Crypto with gold, but you can obtain them on the AH with gold. And I believe the free starter deck will be all PvP cards.

I get what you're saying, Lockon. I just think that "essential gameplay" is a bit of a murky concept in this instance, and that an industrious player is going to be able to access constructed PvP by investing time in PVE anyway.

Maphalux
08-15-2013, 06:35 PM
What you must understand is that HEX is first and foremost a competitive trading card game with the potential for cash tournaments in the future. If CZE incorporates anything that allows people to acquire the competitive cards without purchasing them, winning them in PvP tournaments or trading with other players, it will significantly devalue and ultimately harm the PvP side of the game. It is a very fine line they have to walk to maintain the integrity of competitive play.

The PvE experience will be completely F2P and you will not need to buy a single booster to play it. It is completely separate from PvP. It has its own cards which, for what it is worth, are far more powerful than the PvP cards.

F2P is not an option for the PvP side, or the cards for that side, and that was never on the table. But that's fine because it isn't necessary to completely enjoy the PvE portion of the game.

zadies
08-15-2013, 06:35 PM
Interesting you imply that PvP cards are needed for the pve content given the PvP cards are much much weaker without gear then the pve cards in general.

MoikPEI
08-15-2013, 06:47 PM
I don't think PvE and PvP cards are entirely separate sets. So far there are only 23 spoiled cards with the PvE-only mark. Unless the remaining unspoiled cards are all PvE, it'll be pretty hard to make a deck. PvE will need some of the PvP-ready cards, otherwise the pool of cards will be unplayable small. I take that to mean you'll be getting PvP-usabel cards during PvE play.

zadies
08-15-2013, 06:50 PM
They have said both sets were ~300 cards.

Maphalux
08-15-2013, 06:53 PM
I can see the commons being well...common...to both sets. I'm sure you are right, MoikPEI. There will be some overlap. But I think we can immediately rule out rares and legendaries. Possibly uncommons as well.

Lockon
08-15-2013, 06:55 PM
Sheesh, it's not even like I'm asking that they make official tournament entries free or anything. I mean, even with my suggestion, you still couldn't get into any type of competition without paying money, as you have to pay entrance fees, and I think it was mentioned somewhere that only bought PVP packs would be used for draft tournaments. So, yes, there would still be an incentive to pay money, usually among the people who'd pay money anyway, but it still gets money out of any "semi-casual" or "only competes in drafts" players as well. The only people who wouldn't pay a dime are the people who wouldn't anyway, so no real loss there.

And yes, just because they're not as powerful doesn't mean I still won't need them. Come on, haven't you guys ever heard of utility? Or what, just because I have some crazy PVE blood cards, I'm not going to need murder or pact of pain? And not only that, but I was pretty sure that the PVP cards are more numerous than the PVE by a large margin. So, not only do I only get the cake, I get far less than everyone who gets the dadgum meat.

Maphalux
08-15-2013, 07:02 PM
TCGs survive and prosper because the cards themselves have value. If you can get them for free they no longer have value.

Murder is a common. It is likely you will have access to that card on the PvE side. From what I understand, there will be NPC merchants you can buy cards from. I would suspect you could get cards like murder that way.

But anyway. Yes, you can expect to get less than someone who is willing to pay for more. That's kind of how the world works.

Lockon
08-15-2013, 07:22 PM
Again, as I've said, as it's PVP, I can't get it at all without paying money, or hoping somebody's stupid enough to put it in the auction house, as I would hold on to that.

As for getting less, again, I'd rather get the plain jane boring cards, but they have a ton of utility, instead of having this mega death nuke that I can never use because I can't survive to play the damn thing, because I don't have the cards to do so.

And value can come in more than just monetary value. Time is money as they say, and it applies to value, and is essential to F2P games. Sure, I could work and farm for weeks or even months on end to get a chance(Notice I say CHANCE, as just getting a pack doesn't mean you get anything useful from it.) at the one card I'm looking for, or I can speed up, or even circumvent it entirely.

And you want an example of how you can run a great TCG, make it F2P and STILL have all cards available to the F2P guy? Check Card Hunter out. I LOVE that game, and the only reason I haven't played it in a while is I already DID everything they had available(Weeks of content, and never once did I feel bored, more than can be said for some games I actually paid for.), and am anxiously waiting for more. And that was done by a company with no experience whatsoever in TCGs, now imagine what Cryptozooic could do.

Estar1
08-15-2013, 07:26 PM
One thing i can see being possible is having rare chances of treasure chests in pve (the ones in booster packs). because these have a rare chance of having a pack or card it might be possible to get pvp cards this way (on a lottery chance.)

Maphalux
08-15-2013, 07:33 PM
Card Hunter is not a TCG it is a CCG. There is a very big difference between them. There is zero trading in Card Hunter. You get what you get from the equipment. Something that you can buy directly from the company or hope to get lucky in drops. And I guarantee you, Card Hunter will never have cash tournaments or even a serious competitive scene.

I like Card Hunter very much. It is unique and innovative. It is also a very different game from HEX. The two are not even remotely similar and will not have the same business model.

Xintia
08-15-2013, 07:43 PM
Lockon, I think you are making an essential misconception here. You are thinking of HEX like a traditional sort of free-to-play MMO. And yes, CZE has said they want HEX to incorporate MMO elements. But you cannot equate your typical MMO PvP (arenas, instanced battlegrounds, etc.) with the PvP side of HEX. HEX's PvP is pretty much a traditional TCG but in digital format. You can't play physical games like Magic, or WoW TCG without actually buying the cards. That is what HEX PvP is. It is not a "mini game" like heading off to Warsong Gulch in WoW. It is a fully fledged digital trading card game. Nothing about it was ever even intended to be free and CZE has been clear about that since the outset. Anyone who comes into the game expecting access to the PvP side for free didn't do their homework and it is not incumbent on CZE to give "handouts" of some sort just to soothe that misconception.

Although that being said, the starter deck that each account gets for free IS fully PvP playable, and CZE has said there will be a "Wild West" format where PvE cards and equipment are open to use in PvP matches. So even then there is a bit of PvP you can do for free. Add in all the PvE content itself and I think CZE is giving excellent value to HEX's "free" players.

funktion
08-15-2013, 08:04 PM
While there might be a pack you can eventually win here and there, cory confirmed this that you wont be getting cards from opposing play methods. Equipment etc is all still up for grabs though.

Lockon
08-15-2013, 08:12 PM
I wasn't asking for "handouts" per say, I was more asking for an opportunity to obtain them. It's why I suggested daily, or probably better, weekly challenges, duels that really push any deck I make to it's limits. Plus, and this I thought of, I only get one "CHANCE" per week, meaning I get to try once a week, but I lose, I'm done for that week. No retrys. Heck, if you think that's too much, make it once a month, anything, just give a slim chance. If nothing else, the illusion of possibility would satisfy me. Although, I did like Estar's idea with the chests, that would be nice. As long as you made sure that any pack obtained with chests wouldn't have a chest themselves, cause shenanigans could happen.(What's in the bonus booster's chest? Another booster?) I mean, I would assume that finding a pack inside the chest would be the rarest possible outcome anyway, so a chance at a chance would be decent.

Oh well, I'll just wait and see what the auction house looks like. If it is adequate for my PVP card needs, I redact everything.

felmare
08-15-2013, 09:36 PM
"Again, as I've said, as it's PVP, I can't get it at all without paying money, or hoping somebody's stupid enough to put it in the auction house, as I would hold on to that. "
this is not even close to realistic. with so many backers out there some people from all their boosters are going to have 20+ some of the same cards and if some other people have 20+ of the same card it wont be worth nearly anything in plat, therefore people will sell pvp cards for gold.
You have two other options... secondary markets or hope that some other guild will pick you up and play nice with you....

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-15-2013, 09:58 PM
You'll get pretty much every common and all but the very best uncommons on the AH for gold, given how commonplace they are. As for the best uncommons and rares? Well, it is a TCG after all, and from my experience with Infinity Wars, if they allow you methods to get these without spending money, there could easily be some way that they're open to abuse depending on how they're implemented.

Gorgol
08-16-2013, 02:08 AM
You'll get pretty much every common and all but the very best uncommons on the AH for gold, given how commonplace they are. As for the best uncommons and rares? Well, it is a TCG after all, and from my experience with Infinity Wars, if they allow you methods to get these without spending money, there could easily be some way that they're open to abuse depending on how they're implemented.

You mean like making infinite number of f2p accounts and getting them all free?
Also, the minute PVP cards become completely devalued is the minute this game is completely dead, period.

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-16-2013, 02:24 AM
Yeah, pretty much, you just make as many accounts as you want with IW, and because everything is obtainable without spending money, you can... yknow, not spend money. :-P

Kamino72
08-16-2013, 03:12 AM
Again, as I've said, as it's PVP, I can't get it at all without paying money, or hoping somebody's stupid enough to put it in the auction house, as I would hold on to that.
Imho, a tough grinder will be able to trade looted rare/legendary items for PvP cards.

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-16-2013, 03:25 AM
Imho, a tough grinder will be able to trade looted rare/legendary items for PvP cards.
The way I see it:

Common/uncommon PvP cards - will sell for both gold and plat on the AH; many players who dabble in both PvE and PvP will be willing to sell bulk commons/uncommons for gold, especially if the plat price for those cards is low (which for most commons/uncommons it will be)
Rare, uncompetitive PvP cards - will likely only sell for plat, though not a significant amount; think the $1 bin at your local card store
Competitive rare PvP cards - will sell for a fair chunk of plat, as these are the cards that the competitive community will be chasing for deckbuilding

Common/uncommon PvE cards + equipment - will likely only sell for gold
Rare, not-too-powerful PvE cards + equipment - will still likely sell for just gold
Rare, powerful PvE cards + equipment - will likely sell for a lot of gold, but could also potentially sell for some plat. This would be the way that a PvE player who doesn't want to spend any money could get PvP cards. Grinding powerful, rare PvE cards and equipment, selling them for whatever plat they can get for them, then gathering enough of that plat to buy the PvP rares they're looking for.

Of course, this is all just conjecture, but I feel it's a logical conclusion.

Banquetto
08-16-2013, 03:28 AM
Hex PvP costs money. If that doesn't work for you, then this isn't the game for you. Either play PvE for free, or find another game.

That's a shame, but if you're not willing to pay money for a product, I think the developers will probably survive without your non-contribution.

hammer
08-16-2013, 03:29 AM
I personally believe that some of the legendary equipment and legendary PVE cards will be very hard to find and acquire much harder than many expect. Seriously if the loot rate is low and the raids and dungeons to get to the loot table takes a significant combined time then these pieces of gear and cards will undoubtedly carry platinum value. I expect some of the loot to trade for Legendary PvP cards and beyond as time is money.

Kamino72
08-16-2013, 03:54 AM
I expect some of the loot to trade for Legendary PvP cards and beyond as time is money.
This. As all cards and equipments will be tradable, you will be able to convert anything to anything. If a rare PvP card is very hard to obtain on the PvE side, its price in gold will skyrocket, incentivizing dual players (PvE+PvP) like me to sell this rare PvP card for gold to get rare/legendary items. Yes, there is an immutable law : time is money.

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-16-2013, 04:19 AM
Well I'm not everyone, but I know that if I'm able to obtain a rare PvE card or piece of equipment through time and effort (that is, farming + grinding), I'm going to be saving my PvP rares for, y'know, trading for PvP stuff. :-P If someone wants to trade me their awesome PvP cards though for my gold/PvE rares, sign me up. XD

ossuary
08-16-2013, 04:43 AM
The way I see it:

Common/uncommon PvP cards - will sell for both gold and plat on the AH; many players who dabble in both PvE and PvP will be willing to sell bulk commons/uncommons for gold, especially if the plat price for those cards is low (which for most commons/uncommons it will be)
Rare, uncompetitive PvP cards - will likely only sell for plat, though not a significant amount; think the $1 bin at your local card store
Competitive rare PvP cards - will sell for a fair chunk of plat, as these are the cards that the competitive community will be chasing for deckbuilding

Common/uncommon PvE cards + equipment - will likely only sell for gold
Rare, not-too-powerful PvE cards + equipment - will still likely sell for just gold
Rare, powerful PvE cards + equipment - will likely sell for a lot of gold, but could also potentially sell for some plat. This would be the way that a PvE player who doesn't want to spend any money could get PvP cards. Grinding powerful, rare PvE cards and equipment, selling them for whatever plat they can get for them, then gathering enough of that plat to buy the PvP rares they're looking for.

Of course, this is all just conjecture, but I feel it's a logical conclusion.

This is pretty much exactly my expectations on how it will all work as well.

Most lower end PVP cards will be available for some amount of gold on the AH from players who play both sides. And maybe even the occasional good rare will be buyable for a huge stack of gold, if you're lucky (if say a pure PVP player decides to dump some extras for a fortune in gold so he can jump into PVE).

And on the other side of things, MOST of the stuff you can get from PVE will only sell on the AH for gold, because people will tend to now want to spend real money on those items. But there will always be some players who don't mind, and particularly rare or powerful PVP cards / equipment will have some limited platinum value. So it will almost certainly be POSSIBLE to get some PVP stuff without you personally ponying up cash (but CZE will still get money out of it, since that other player had to buy it to give it to you), but just going ahead and buying some plat yourself will be way faster.

Gorgol
08-16-2013, 04:49 AM
If its earnable purely by time, then why spend money on it? I'd rather spend my money on only money acquirable things. I'm sure some people will have too much money and less time, so you might find a few things, but not likely much outside of the things that aren't good in pvp.

ossuary
08-16-2013, 05:07 AM
There will always be people who are willing to pay real money to not spend real time. Gold farmers wouldn't exist (and thrive) otherwise. ;)

Koshindan
08-16-2013, 07:37 AM
If it's like Magic, there's going to be tons of commons and uncommons floating around that nobody wants more than 4 of. Chances are, you'll be able to make a decent deck out of them.

hammer
08-16-2013, 07:41 AM
Unless the crafting system consumes pvp commons and uncommons - I do not think we have seen anything on crafting yet....

Kamino72
08-16-2013, 08:16 AM
so you might find a few things, but not likely much outside of the things that aren't good in pvp.
I wouldn't be so sure. Most free-to-play games are based on a curious business model : the whales. Less than 5% of the paying players spend more than $500 and account more than 50% of the editor's revenue. In Hex, PvE whales will have to buy lot of boosters to sell PvP cards for gold/plat to buy PvE stuff.

Lockon
08-16-2013, 09:08 AM
Just occurred to me, will PVE stuff come in buyable packs or will they only be available as rewards?

Vorpal
08-16-2013, 09:17 AM
Just occurred to me, will PVE stuff come in buyable packs or will they only be available as rewards?

You can use all PVP cards in PvE, so yes, they come in packs.

PVP cards can be used in PVP and PVE.

PVE Cards can only be used in PVE.

Any card you pay money to get is going to be a PVP card. Cards you earn through pve play are pve cards that can't be used in pvp.

vickrpg
08-16-2013, 09:44 AM
You can use all PVP cards in PvE, so yes, they come in packs.

PVP cards can be used in PVP and PVE.

PVE Cards can only be used in PVE.

Any card you pay money to get is going to be a PVP card. Cards you earn through pve play are pve cards that can't be used in pvp.

Furthermore, They have confirmed that PVE cards are not "Set" cards. they will come out when content comes out, which may or may not be directly tied to the PVP set releases. So, if a PVP set comes out, it is not guaranteed that there will be a huge influx of PVE only cards.

Barkam
08-16-2013, 09:51 AM
Furthermore, They have confirmed that PVE cards are not "Set" cards. they will come out when content comes out, which may or may not be directly tied to the PVP set releases. So, if a PVP set comes out, it is not guaranteed that there will be a huge influx of PVE only cards.

Good design decision. I still dont know what people will be buying from PvE if one is already buying boosters.

Lockon
08-16-2013, 04:59 PM
What I meant was, do I get the PVE cards through packs I can only buy with in-game gold, or can they only be obtained through quests or some such? Of course, if the latter is true... what is the point of gold again? I mean, what the hell would you spend it on?

vickrpg
08-16-2013, 05:21 PM
there will be in-game merchants that sell specific PVE cards, equipment and crafting mats. There is also a gold AH, where you can buy things from other players (possibly even PVP cards if they are posted)

Yoss
08-16-2013, 05:29 PM
What I meant was, do I get the PVE cards through packs I can only buy with in-game gold, or can they only be obtained through quests or some such? Of course, if the latter is true... what is the point of gold again? I mean, what the hell would you spend it on?
You spend gold on gold sinks. Ideas for gold sinks can be (and have been) posted here (link). One gold sink could be the auction house, where you'll trade gold for PVE items and (to the OP) for Plat (which you can then use for PVP stuff).

Even if the AH is the only gold outlet, that gives gold value.

To the OP, yes, you will probably be able to farm PVE to get "free" PVP (paid with time rather than money), but it might be very time-expensive. See this thread (link) for economy and AH details (mostly speculative).

EntropyBall
08-16-2013, 08:12 PM
I can see the commons being well...common...to both sets. I'm sure you are right, MoikPEI. There will be some overlap. But I think we can immediately rule out rares and legendaries. Possibly uncommons as well.

I believe they have said there is no direct overlap. A card is either PVP or PVE.

Its very difficult to speculate on how PVE will work, since they have not provided much info. For example, is PVE balanced assuming players have access to all the PVE cards, or all the PVE and PVP cards? If its the former, then it is far from necessary to buy anything to play PVE.

Lockon
08-16-2013, 09:05 PM
I assume(d) the latter. The pessimistic option, always the safe one. You get to rub it in when you're right, and if you're wrong, great, you got the better result.

Anyway, if the former is true, my problems are invalid, as PVE will truly be just different, able to survive without PVP, but they certainly wouldn't hurt, instead of needing to pony up just to play the supposedly "F2P" content. I mean, I wouldn't complain about the paywall at all in the former's case, as I don't really care about PVP so much, I just wanted to make sure that I COULD survive/thrive in the PVE. Heck, I even like the model for PVE better, cards alongside content. Basically, when I have beaten all the dungeons in as many ways as I care to, when they add new cards, I have something to actually DO with them.

Yoss
08-17-2013, 10:13 AM
I'm expecting PVP cards to make PVE easier, but that doesn't make PVP cards "mandatory". Plus, as stated before, it is very likely you will be able to grind out PVE stuff to get gold to get plat to get PVP cards "for free" (might cost lots of time though).

Maphalux
08-17-2013, 12:05 PM
I believe they have said there is no direct overlap. A card is either PVP or PVE.

Its very difficult to speculate on how PVE will work, since they have not provided much info. For example, is PVE balanced assuming players have access to all the PVE cards, or all the PVE and PVP cards? If its the former, then it is far from necessary to buy anything to play PVE.

Oh really? I wasn't aware of this. I figured there would be simply because you can use PvP cards in PvE. I thought there was just PvE only cards that couldn't cross over into competitive play.

zadies
08-17-2013, 12:12 PM
The overlap from PvP to pve is to give added value to people who make purchases. Given the power disparity between revealed PvP and pve cards in all likelyhood an optimal pve deck will contain few if any PvP cards unless you already have the rare equipment to improve them

Wolfe
08-17-2013, 02:04 PM
I think PVP cards will be easy enough to get by trading PVE content. I'm really excited about both. I know my excessive love of drafting is going to be leaving me with tons of spare cards to trade and sell. My PVE adventures are going to leave me with cards I haven't been able to find. Most of us who have played MMOs a lot have wound up in situations where we just couldn't seem to get the drop we wanted even after running the dungeon 10-20 times. Now imagine having to get the drop x4? It's just statistics. Throw 50,000 people at 40 dungeons and any given person is going to wind up with 10 of X card while others found none. Heck yes, I'll be trading for some of the ones I want.

I've dropped plenty of real money over the years on MTG singles that weren't legal in current standard play. EDH, Vintage, Legacy - all fun. I've also dropped real money on WoW TCG mostly for the fun of constructing decks with my friends to face down the PVE challenges.

So if the PVE cards I want are being sold in gold, then I'd be open to selling some of those 40 copies of Burn for gold. That guy could then turn around and sell them for platinum if he so desired. Legendary PVE cards are going to be even more special. How many dozens and dozens of times are you going to have to run a particular dungeon to get a full play set of that legendary card? Maybe even hundreds with bad luck? If you're really serious about PVE, you'd definitely be willing to trade a whole bunch of your excess cards to get it. Currency is the glue that facilitates that trade. You sell 200 cards for some combo of gold/plat and buy your cards. Or you pony up the real cash to make it happen. It's all time vs money and any combination of time or money should get you the cards you desire.

Kami
08-18-2013, 02:27 PM
While I'm not particularly fond of the ability to earn PvP cards through PvE easily, how's this for a possible implementation?

Allow players to purchase Boosters with rules such as these:

1. The gold required should start at X-times the amount a Booster is worth as balance requires.
2. The gold required shall increase in cost for every subsequent booster purchased to prevent devaluing.
3. Boosters purchased through this system cannot be Primal Packs or hold Treasure Chests.
4. Cards earned via the boosters through this system are account-bound.
5. Boosters cannot be used directly in tournament play.
6. Each account that wants to use this system must have a valid unique credit card attached to this system.

You could probably flesh this out even more to ensure that the cards just assist PvE players in getting a taste of at least Constructed formats of PvP.

Just an idea. :)

[Edit: Did I mention this could be a potentially massive gold sink?]

Yoss
08-18-2013, 02:55 PM
While I'm not particularly fond of the ability to earn PvP cards through PvE easily, how's this for a possible implementation?

Allow players to purchase Boosters with rules such as these:

1. The gold required should start at X-times the amount a Booster is worth as balance requires.
2. The gold required shall increase in cost for every subsequent booster purchased to prevent devaluing.
3. Boosters purchased through this system cannot be Primal Packs or hold Treasure Chests.
4. Cards earned via the boosters through this system are account-bound.
5. Boosters cannot be used directly in tournament play.
6. Each account that wants to use this system must have a valid unique credit card attached to this system.

You could probably flesh this out even more to ensure that the cards just assist PvE players in getting a taste of at least Constructed formats of PvP.

Just an idea. :)

[Edit: Did I mention this could be a potentially massive gold sink?]
Dunno if your idea would work, but why go to all that work when there will already be ways to convert Gold to Plat (and thus boosters)? (Gold sink is the CurEx.)

Kami
08-18-2013, 02:59 PM
Dunno if your idea would work, but why go to all that work when there will already be ways to convert Gold to Plat (and thus boosters)? (Gold sink is the CurEx.)

Correct me if I'm mistaken but I was under the impression that only Platinum -> Gold would be implemented and not the reverse. Platinum would require selling via AH or purchasing through store.

Yoss
08-18-2013, 03:23 PM
Nothing's confirmed from CZE one way or the other AFAIK, but there are logical things we can say as a way to speculate. See the currency/AH thread, excerpt below. Note the underlined part.

Currency Exchange and AH Fees
Plat and Gold can be traded Player to Player at a floating market rate on the AH. (We'll call this the Currency Exchange, or CurEx.)
Currency for AH listings (3 choices): gold-only, plat-only, hybrid.

Note that in all three cases, HexBAS (see below) will handle all the messy details of currency excange as needed so that users have a streamlined experience.
Gold-only: All listings in Gold. AH fees are a sweet gold sink.
Plat-only: All listings in Plat. AH fees are CZE profit.
Hybrid (my current favorite): PVE items list in Gold, PVP items list in Plat.
AH fees should exist.
CurEx fees should exist.

Discussion: (1) True and complete segregation of gold from platinum is nearly impossible. (2) Since gold/plat interaction will exist in some form even if the AH does not enable it, it is desirable to have the transparency of a CurEx so that all players know what the exchange rate is and are thus protected from crooked dealings. Transparency can also help with detection of malicious behaviors. (3) CurEx fees will probably be necessary to cut down on currency speculation. (4) If CurEx exists, there is no reason to suffer the market imbalance of having a divided AH (some listings gold, some plat for the same exact commodity). (5) The hard decision is then which currency to use as the standard. If gold, then AH fees serve as a powerful gold sink since nearly all players will want to use the AH. Also if gold, then the CurEx fees will really bite pure PVP players (bad). If plat, then AH fees are profit for CZE, but you give up a great gold sink. If hybrid, you get the best of both (though lesser in each case). In all cases, fees reduce the profitability of playing the market.


You can also see post 82 of that thread (and others) for more details of why it would be nearly impossible to separate Gold and Plat. Which then leads us to say they might as well have official Currency Exchange (CurEx).

wutae
08-19-2013, 12:21 AM
Is currently ANY way to get free boosters in Hex? All players need a carrot on a stick to keep playing, and you need players to try to login and play as many hours as possible to farm these free boosters, so you can have a healthy playerbase.

So as i was saying, will we have any carrot on a stick in this game?

havocattack
08-19-2013, 12:22 AM
Yes, good gameplay ;)

Gorgol
08-19-2013, 12:26 AM
Be good in pvp

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-19-2013, 12:27 AM
Also, the whole "farm sought-after goods in PvE, sell on AH for plat, buy boosters" avenue. Only as viable as the plat-demand for high value PvE gear, but it's an option.

ecaflip
08-19-2013, 03:10 AM
1. The gold required should start at X-times the amount a Booster is worth as balance requires.
Seems reasonable



2. The gold required shall increase in cost for every subsequent booster purchased to prevent devaluing
Kinda against escalating prices when you already want to regulate the starting price, it also goes against 3 and 4 since they can't be traded or have any chance of primals/no chests theres no sense in preventing devalue when the packs have no initial value to start with.


3. Boosters purchased through this system cannot be Primal Packs or hold Treasure Chests.
4. Cards earned via the boosters through this system are account-bound.
5. Boosters cannot be used directly in tournament play.
6. Each account that wants to use this system must have a valid unique credit card attached to this system.

No, just no... if you wanna segregate a playerbase thats trying to get into PvP from a F2P standpoint... this is how you segregate them. Especially with 6, you've basically butchered half or more of the f2p playerbase including myself.

Shadowelf
08-19-2013, 03:20 AM
Beyond the occasional booster by completing some pve tasks, and rewards by winning certain tournaments, i don't think there is such an option. But ,as Jax already mentioned, farm pve stuff, sell them at the AH for plat, and essentially buy boosters for free

Edit; there is also a chance to get a free pack in treasure chests

Mathaw
08-19-2013, 03:24 AM
you need players to try to login and play as many hours as possible to farm these free boosters, so you can have a healthy playerbase.


Everybody likes grinding, right?

Chiany
08-19-2013, 03:28 AM
Everybody likes grinding, right?

/sarcasm on

Yes, everyone does

/sarcasm off

Kami
08-19-2013, 04:13 AM
2. The gold required shall increase in cost for every subsequent booster purchased to prevent devaluing
Kinda against escalating prices when you already want to regulate the starting price, it also goes against 3 and 4 since they can't be traded or have any chance of primals/no chests theres no sense in preventing devalue when the packs have no initial value to start with.

The reason for this is is that gold will increase exponentially as time goes on. Increasing prices is to prevent players from converting Platinum to Gold at a very cheap rate and then purchasing boosters. It also discourages gold farmers from trying to use this as leverage to profit.



3. Boosters purchased through this system cannot be Primal Packs or hold Treasure Chests.
4. Cards earned via the boosters through this system are account-bound.
5. Boosters cannot be used directly in tournament play.
6. Each account that wants to use this system must have a valid unique credit card attached to this system.

No, just no... if you wanna segregate a playerbase thats trying to get into PvP from a F2P standpoint... this is how you segregate them. Especially with 6, you've basically butchered half or more of the f2p playerbase including myself.

I disagree. It gives you an option to get into casual and constructed formats of PvP. Granted, you won't be able to play sealed or draft but then again, you're not paying for normal boosters either. The gold you earned via the PvE mode is still entirely free.

You could always increase the number of cards in this 'gold booster' to make up for its deficiencies. They'll be account bound to prevent users from absolutely destroying the market though as gold will always have inherently less value than platinum or real currency.

The alternative, as it stands currently, is no ability to gain any PvP cards short of purchasing through AH or trading for them one by one. You could potentially use the AH to sell PvE cards for platinum and turn around to purchase PvP cards/boosters that way but... I wonder how high the value of PvE cards will be in platinum when the entire PvE is F2P.

Let's say you argue that you could convert gold to platinum by selling to a player directly. I'm sure the amount of gold you'd have to sell would be rather significant anyway and would fluctuate over time. With this idea (even though I don't expect it to be implemented), the cost of a 'gold booster' would be fixed and increase each time you purchase it but at least you'd have a way to play PvP casual/constructed formats without doling out cash for PvP cards.

Arbiter
08-19-2013, 06:11 AM
There is no such thing as a free booster. If people can get them in a game they are factored in to the booster cost. So free boosters are basically paid for by the people that buy boosters paying higher costs for them. Which means that free boosters act as a disincentive to some paying customers.

Norious
08-19-2013, 06:38 AM
What about a potential reward for an epic boss raid

malloc31
08-19-2013, 06:47 AM
I don't understand this idea that people keep having that it is unfair if they don't give you stuff for free. When you play a game like WoW you pay for the game, you pay for the expansions, and you pay monthly to play, and no one complains that they aren't giving you free stuff. This game they are letting you play for free, and not charging you monthly (unless you join VIP and that's only $4) and people keep complaining that they need to pay for things. Of coarse you need to pay at some point how do you want them to make any money to pay there employees???

Just because people get used to playing free games, stealing music and movies on the internet does not mean every one is entitled to do what ever they want for free. This game is not fully free, and I think that is fine.

Mathaw
08-19-2013, 07:01 AM
I don't understand this idea that people keep having that it is unfair if they don't give you stuff for free. When you play a game like WoW you pay for the game, you pay for the expansions, and you pay monthly to play, and no one complains that they aren't giving you free stuff. This game they are letting you play for free, and not charging you monthly (unless you join VIP and that's only $4) and people keep complaining that they need to pay for things. Of coarse you need to pay at some point how do you want them to make any money to pay there employees???

Just because people get used to playing free games, stealing music and movies on the internet does not mean every one is entitled to do what ever they want for free. This game is not fully free, and I think that is fine.

I think you went a bit off the rails there. No one is complaining, OP was just asking if there were any ways to obtain free boosters.

And to be fair, yes it's a F2P game, but one that has netted the best part of $3m before it has even been released. For context that's more than some AAA titles make in their entire existence. The debate is less about value for the company, and more about player value. It would be bad to give away boosters because there will be people paying for them. It creates an unfair dynamic. Nobody is going to go hungry though if Hex decided to give away the odd booster.

Stok3d
08-19-2013, 11:32 AM
There is no such thing as a free booster. If people can get them in a game they are factored in to the booster cost. So free boosters are basically paid for by the people that buy boosters paying higher costs for them. Which means that free boosters act as a disincentive to some paying customers.

Very good point.

I am strongly against any free boosters attained directly through PVE. An action of allowing boosters generated at specific achievement thresholds does the following:


Opens the PVP realm up to botting. Even if you had to have 24 hours play for that booster, that's still $2 per account per day that could be farmed. With the low system requirements of Hex, I'd guess a higher end system could easily run 50+ instances of Hex.
Could promote the average player to continually create multiple account to "farm packs"
The inevitable disparity of F2P players compared to PVP could easily be 100:1. Now consider if there were say 3x separate thresholds which generated a total of 3x PVP Packs. Imagine the economic effects if for every person that plays and pays PVP that 300x packs were generated at no cost. Remember, this is JUST from the disparity in population and does NOT take into account the first two bullets.

As to help preserve the long term value of PVP cards in this game, I am very much against anything DIRECTLY from Hex generating in PVE that provides PVP items.

zadies
08-19-2013, 11:52 AM
I'm sorry saying pve is f2p does not entitle anyone in any way shape or form to play PvP for free. The idea is to convert a f2p player to pay not allow 100% access to the entire game for free.... Star wars is a f2p game but it is extremely limited as to what you can do for free as is ddo.... Everyone playing those games for free knows exactly what they are getting, and how much grinding is required to unlock a new mission pack in the case of ddo.... It is amazing to me how a company can set clearly identifiable lines and people will be well your not giving me enough to just show up.... Because really a f2p person in this game is really not contributing anything in most games that allow this kind of access they at least provide a body to fill a raid.

Yoss
08-19-2013, 01:39 PM
@ CZE selling PVP boosters for Gold:
They should not. EVER. To do so is to introduce a needless market imbalance; there would be two different booster prices from the same source (CZE). One price would be exactly $2 and the other would be wandering around with a control target of $2 but never quite hit it. It's also important to note that that control mechanism will require resources from CZE to create and to maintain.

The way to buy boosters with Gold is to convert Gold into Plat through the AH and then just pay your $2 (in plat) like anyone else. Currency fluctuations should be taken into account at the CurEx, not at the booster sales counter.

@Stok3d, 74:
Yeah, I hope they don't drop PVP stuff in PVE often (or even at all). A PVE player's route to PVP should be through the Currency Exchange (farm PVE, sell stuff for gold, gold to plat, buy PVP).

jimmywolf
08-19-2013, 06:02 PM
But that's not good design. If they're going to do that, they might as well just go Guild Wars with it, and not even waste their time with the F2P. Either/or, because if you're going to force people to pay to actually play the game, you shouldn't even bother with F2P at all. It's a waste of everyone's time trying to get the best of both the F2P and P2P with a paywall in place, you'll just end up with the worst of both. If you're going to make it F2P, you should go whole hog with it, and make the F2P experience the best you can, or you're wasting your time. Alright? It's not fair to the F2P guys if they can't even have a chance at the ESSENTIAL content. I can live without mercs, I can live without cosmetics, but if you're going to tell me that I have to pay in order to get the bare essentials in a supposedly "free" game, you're just being a jerk. Now, I know Cryptozooic isn't made of jerks, and I honestly believe they really love this game, so someone has to tell them they're making a huge mistake. They have the whole system backwards, making the nonessentials free, and the essentials paywalled. It's like giving out cake at a soup line. Don't need sweets, need meat.


little early too judge if their right or wrong before the game even out.

"It's not fair to the F2P guys if they can't even have a chance at the ESSENTIAL content."

not sure i agree with that line, it not fair to the guy who paid nothing?

am not very good at making valid arguments, an i can see your PoV but in till the game comes out, an i hear nothing but bad reviews because everyone thinks it P2W an quits playing, i'll be looking forward to the game.

Lockon
08-19-2013, 07:15 PM
Hey, if it is possible to make viable decks entirely of PVE cards, then I have no complaints. Anything else, and hell yes I'd complain, and here's why. Fair was an inaccurate term. Not allowing us to actually play the "F2P" content without paying wouldn't be unfair, it would be dishonest, as it would be saying "Hey, here's this cool game you can play for free" and not actually letting us play it for free. Basically, say one thing and do another. Not saying that Cryptozooic would intentionally do this, which is why I mention in hopes they see it BEFORE they make asses and liars of themselves.

Stok3d
08-19-2013, 07:26 PM
Lochon, you can 100% play PVE without using any PVP cards. Generally from what I've noticed of the PVE cards spoiled, some of the PVE cards tend to be more powerful as well. When Cryptozoic said it's F2P, it's true. You will have access to 100s of hours of play time and you don't need to spend a dime. I would suggest, however, that you at least get a slack backer so you can get into alpha coming up (you get 4x of every card in game to mess around with until beta comes out and alpha is wiped). I played the game this past weekend and can attest that it's THAT good. :)

CZE hopes at some point you get curious and want to try out drafting or something and that's where they would profit on you. I hope this explanation helps. There are lots of podcasts that Cory Jones explains PVE and his F2P model. This company is definitely a 'fans first' organization.

Anyway, hopefully something I said helps. Best of luck to you.

RobHaven
08-20-2013, 06:58 AM
My statements may have been misleading; you can never buy PvP cards from Crypto with gold, but you can obtain them on the AH with gold. And I believe the free starter deck will be all PvP cards.

I saw this mentioned a couple of times in this thread. Has this been said by Crypto at any point? Is this factual information or speculation? If it's fact, would you mind pointing out where it is? I never saw or heard it, but I don't get to listen to all of the interviews or see all the streams.

Stok3d
08-20-2013, 07:03 AM
Free Starter decks provided at account creation are account-bound.

I am still not sure if PVE or PVP, but below is an official statement on the starters.


Cory Jones on May 9

@Mark Fadden
Hi Mark, the free to play game begins the player with one starter, these are specifically designed for a great new player experience, the starters that will be sold separately (and are offered as rewards on this Kickstarter are different and slightly more advanced), none of the rewards you receive thru Kickstarter will diminish what you would have received otherwise.

Kami
08-20-2013, 07:09 AM
They haven't actually stated what would be in the Starter decks. Or at least from what I've seen/heard. Unless I missed somehow.

The only official statement thus far is that the free starter decks will be account bound. The purchased starter decks will be tradable.

zadies
08-20-2013, 07:35 AM
Your making an assumption that the free starter decks are PvP cards and they need not be. Unless they intend for your pve experience to start with zero cards it makes much more sense for it to be an intro to pve/learning deck.

NULL_VALUE
09-15-2013, 05:15 PM
i personally like that PVP is the way it is, that you cannot play pvp without buying cards (or at least trading pve-stuff with other players)
why i like it? because those booster packs are really cheap (2$ for 15 cards isn't that much and you can also buy into VIP) and the main advantage is that there will be less chances for gold farmers, who would otherwise ruin the game ultimately

Urimagination
09-15-2013, 07:59 PM
Any update on this, sorry dont want to read 9 pages lol.

I hope its kept separate. I would hate it if people who had the time could just farm then sell their cards etc. If that makes sense

Aradon
09-15-2013, 08:51 PM
Well, you'll be able to sell your PvE cards for sure. You won't be able to farm PvP cards through PvE though.

Thaumasios
09-16-2013, 12:54 AM
i personally like that PVP is the way it is, that you cannot play pvp without buying cards (or at least trading pve-stuff with other players)
why i like it? because those booster packs are really cheap (2$ for 15 cards isn't that much and you can also buy into VIP) and the main advantage is that there will be less chances for gold farmers, who would otherwise ruin the game ultimately


Wait wait, really cheap for a virtual card game I don't think so!It's a good price but not cheap, if you'll play competitively or if you will t1 decks, trust me, you'll pay a lot of money.

Shadowelf
09-16-2013, 04:45 AM
Wait wait, really cheap for a virtual card game I don't think so!It's a good price but not cheap, if you'll play competitively or if you will t1 decks, trust me, you'll pay a lot of money.

Still it is half the price of mtg/mtgo and cheaper than any other tcg in the market. Plus you can always trade or use the AH

NULL_VALUE
09-16-2013, 08:59 AM
Wait wait, really cheap for a virtual card game I don't think so!It's a good price but not cheap, if you'll play competitively or if you will t1 decks, trust me, you'll pay a lot of money.

If my information is correct there will be 350 card at the beginning, you will be able to have 4 of each card in your deck, so one will need to get 1400 cards IF one really wants to have the ability to create any deck one wants. This would be with 2$ per 15 cards around 186$ for buying every card in the game if you don't get more than four copies of one card which can be balanced by trading. Even then it doesn't take into account that you will play pve and will be able to trade pve-items/cards for pvp-cards. Also there is the VIP-access which will give access to one booster pack a week for 8$ per month, which is fair and comes with other stuff.
Additionally since this game is online, trading will be really simple. In scrolls f.e. you only have the chat, you need mods to search for cards, trading is quiet difficult, but even then it isn't hard to build your deck on some website and then search for the cards to finally build it ingame. So you really don't need to have every card in your possession to build a specific deck, you actually only have to have cards equal to value of the deck you want to build and then trade for it.
Maybe there will even be some crafting mechanic to craft new cards out of others? Who knows, might become some sort of advantage for the VIP-guys.
And finally: look at the prices for VIP-access and the prices for the boosters, compare it to other mmos and tcgs, the prices of hex are much cheaper (imo).

PS: to the point that it is a virtual card game, if i am not mistaken i think i have read somewhere in the forums that we will get printed cards if we collect one full set? Someone might correct me please if that's not true ;)

ossuary
09-16-2013, 09:17 AM
PS: to the point that it is a virtual card game, if i am not mistaken i think i have read somewhere in the forums that we will get printed cards if we collect one full set? Someone might correct me please if that's not true ;)

That was only a suggestion (and something MTGO does). Nobody from CZE has suggested any such feature would be offered, it was just an idea someone on the forums had to reduce the total number of cards that existed in game (by deleting virtual copies in exchange for a limited number of collectors' printing physical copies).

Aradon
09-16-2013, 09:18 AM
If my information is correct there will be 350 card at the beginning, you will be able to have 4 of each card in your deck, so one will need to get 1400 cards IF one really wants to have the ability to create any deck one wants. This would be with 2$ per 15 cards around 186$ for buying every card in the game if you don't get more than four copies of one card which can be balanced by trading. Even then it doesn't take into account that you will play pve and will be able to trade pve-items/cards for pvp-cards. Also there is the VIP-access which will give access to one booster pack a week for 8$ per month, which is fair and comes with other stuff.

A couple things. VIP is only $4 a month, but an $8 dollar value in packs. Second, I wouldn't go about calculating the cost of acquiring all cards in a set through packs quite like that. Without knowledge of the rarity of legendaries in packs, it's hard to say for certain. I'd go ahead and guess that there will be about 85 rares/legendaries (The basis for this: MtG core sets are 264 cards, with 74ish rares/mythics - for a larger set like Hex's core set, this number will be slightly larger), which means that, with no repeats, you'd have to pay $2 x 85 x 4 to get 4 copies of each rare, or $680 for a playset of the whole set. You'll undoubtedly get duplicates, which may or may not be harmful depending on the value of the duplicates.


Maybe there will even be some crafting mechanic to craft new cards out of others? Who knows, might become some sort of advantage for the VIP-guys.

PS: to the point that it is a virtual card game, if i am not mistaken i think i have read somewhere in the forums that we will get printed cards if we collect one full set? Someone might correct me please if that's not true ;)

There is indeed a crafting system for turning extra cards into equipment and other cards. We really don't know much about it right now, though. And that final point is actually incorrect. MtGO allowed you to redeem a full set for a physical version, but Hex does not plan on doing this, because their cards don't actually work in the physical world. There is no paper version of Hex, so there will be no paper cards for it, with the exception of (maybe) cool single promo cards.

Shadowelf
09-16-2013, 09:48 AM
@Aradon

Cory said that there will be 18 legendaries in set1 , however he didn't want to reveal the percentage of opening a legendary in a pack, because as he said he wants people to explore this themselves (http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 check 0:33:10). However they said that they will be emulating psysical tcg's print runs (http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 check 0:34:05), and if their print runs will anything like mtg's then we are talking for 1/8 chance (http://mtg.wikia.com/wiki/Mythic_Rare)

As for crafting, yeah not much info atm as you said, but what we know is that you will be able break cards/equipment into mats to craft cards and cosmetics only available to crafting (http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg/b/412300360 check 0:58:00). Also you won't be able to craft pvp cards (http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg/b/412300360 check 1:00:20)

The Void Society has come to Entrath to gather raw materials for their war effort back home. They take cards and gear you don’t need and, in return, give you items that can combine into new and unique PvE cards and gear. Players can gain access to these crafting cards and gear by turning the cards and gear they don’t need into component parts, then assemble the crafting components into items. Unlock more powerful items and crafting recipes as you level your crafting skill. (update#5 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts?page=9)

Dynark
09-16-2013, 10:05 AM
I would consider to "pay" the players if they work as opponents or allies for potentially paying customers.
If the workload of the servers is not too expensive - what it should not be, imho - the more people play the better, as long as the people have a reason to pay for anything that does not feel "void".
A Booster is not bringing you to the top of the foodchain and the high class will be pay to win - something I suppose everyone will understand.
Shooting out too much is a problem, since the individual prizes will crumble and burn.
There are some very complicated decisions to be made.
I would wonder if they really have a very big paywall to get a minor number of boosters a week/month. (maybe you have to grind pvp constructed games, but what do I know)

Duel of Champions does not allow you to buy the newest edition with ingame currency, btw.(last time a checked).
Everyone should accept that he will NEVER be able to play a TCG game where he plays in the top tournaments without ever payed for it.
But he should be able to feel a slow increase in his card pool, if he plays a lot and even works as "an entertainer" in a way.

As said, people have a fix amount of "money for random stuff", that amount changes (student -> employee) and if you are hooked, you are hooked.

But I accept that it is not that easy.

zadies
09-16-2013, 11:43 AM
Issue is that they see the pve as a full entire experience as opposed to a learn to play and it is over or no pve at all. Also there is a mode of PvP for from that they are implementing that allows you to play with the pve cards they are just saying it won't be balanced. So you can PvP completely for free they just are saying don't expect us to pay you to play our game which is what free prize tournament invites/boosters would do.

Shadowelf
09-16-2013, 12:46 PM
Issue is that they see the pve as a full entire experience as opposed to a learn to play and it is over or no pve at all.

There will be a fully fleshed out tutorial aimed to teach you the game from the very basics, to how to draft, do dungeons and raids

tutorial in general http://www.twitch.tv/knightsoftheroundshow/b/430004874 check 0:11:55
tutorial-the basics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20tC_cGSsY check 0:31:00
tutorial for dungeons/raids http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/09/03/dragoncon-2013-interview-with-chris-woods-magical-creature/ check 0:03:20
tutorial for drafts http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 check 0:37:44


Also there is a mode of PvP for from that they are implementing that allows you to play with the pve cards they are just saying it won't be balanced.

That's speculation; they never said that pvp/pvp format won't be balanced

http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/09/02/dragoncon-2013-hextcg-pve-design-panel/ check 0:10:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUn3gOclMc check 0:32:45


So you can PvP completely for free they just are saying don't expect us to pay you to play our game which is what free prize tournament invites/boosters would do.

This is how Cory explains it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUn3gOclMc check 0:29:48

Gwaer
09-16-2013, 01:50 PM
They have actually said on numerous occasions that the PVP/PVE format won't be balanced. They're specifically making PVE cards "bonkers". It's inherently imbalanced.

Shadowelf
09-16-2013, 02:30 PM
What Cory said is [...]i'm not concerned about these cards, when it comes to that piece of the game, once you included the equipment, the champions and the mercenaries, the game is so blown wide open that the crazy combos and strategies will be so varied and rich, that it will be the format with the most varied metagame. (http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/09/02/dragoncon-2013-hextcg-pve-design-panel/ check 0:10:20). Legacy mtg format is like this; you can pull all sort of crazy stuff, but it's far from unbalanced. Also Cory said that it will be a supported tournament format, so i bet that if something turns out to be unbalanced, will probably be banned in the process

Aradon
09-16-2013, 02:33 PM
I'd expect that Spectral Lotus will be house-banned from many 'wild west' games. People don't want to be forced to use consumables just to be competitive. I bet there will be interest in games allowing the lotus, too, but if there are any guild-supported PvE tournaments, I would expect lotus-banning to be a commonplace restriction.

Personally, I want to see a casual game variant based on a mercenary that lets you equip any number of gear, increases your life total, and enforces a singleton deck list. Ban him from PvE play, sure, but it'd make for amazing casual and multiplayer games.

zadies
09-16-2013, 02:36 PM
I didn't say pve wouldn't include a tutorial, only that it continued well past that point unlike other dtcgs.