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Nicalapegus
08-19-2013, 09:04 PM
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1298614-Will-you-play-Hearthstone-or-Hex

Granted that thread is old, the current conversation seems to go like that. Either they have no idea what Hex is or will only play Hearthstone because it is Blizzard. Hearthstone is a super polished, super simple game. Will it have more appeal than a supposedly hardcore TCG? You betya.

It's up to you and me to change that. I know that every person I play on MWS I mention Hex to. Most haven't heard of it. With a few sentences I hopefully get them to check out a Youtube video, or Google it. Go to your card shops and tell everybody, let's get this opinion turned around and let's stoke the fires of hype in our friends!

keldrin
08-19-2013, 09:23 PM
I'm not at all worried about Hearthstone. When the game releases with alpha and beta, and especially general release, word will spread very quickly about HEX I believe. But, yeah, I'm definitely telling anyone I think might be interested.

funktion
08-19-2013, 09:36 PM
Think you shoulda used a less sensational title for this thread...

Prism
08-19-2013, 09:39 PM
No it won't they're vastly different games. Hearthstone is an iPad style CCG. Hex is a fully featured TCG.

I will probably play both (of course I'll play hex after spending $500 on it). They do not compete for the same exclusive audience

Hex's only competitor is MTGO. If people have enough money to play that and do not care about the PvE stuff but would like a more developed and balanced (sorry, Hex will not be as balanced or well designed as MTG) PvP experience, they will play MTGO. If they want something a bit less expensive and want some of the PvE and character building action (both for me, I'll play MTG in person) then they will play Hex.

If they're moneybags, they're play both.

MTG in a sense is not even a competitor of Hex. If MTG did not get such an insane boost in popularity over the past 4 years or so there would be next to no demand for this game. They help eachother

Mr.Funsocks
08-19-2013, 09:41 PM
Your claim, if I understand it right, is that people who weren't going to play Hex anyway are going to play Hearthstone 'cos it's Blizzard? And that's bad?

HyenaNipples
08-19-2013, 09:47 PM
If anything, Hearthstone may serve as a gateway drug to Hex. All those people coming off World of Warcraft, trying out Hearthstone, getting bored with its simplicity- then they hear about a game like Hearthstone but more complex.... they find Hex TCG and inject it in-between their toes so no one at work finds out they are using.

Nicalapegus
08-19-2013, 09:51 PM
Think you shoulda used a less sensational title for this thread...

Do you not agree? The link I used was tied directly into my title. Then I went straight into my argument for why we should change this. Think you shoulda used a less pointless post in my thread...

TheKraken
08-19-2013, 10:05 PM
If anything, Hearthstone may serve as a gateway drug to Hex.

I completely agree with this. Heartstone will pull in the general audience and some of those new fans of TCG will move on to a more competitive and mature game in Hex. The issue with Hex is that it isn't out - so no one, besides those of us from the get go reading and watching everything, really knows how wonderful Hex can and will be until it is released.

lite
08-19-2013, 10:06 PM
If anything, Hearthstone may serve as a gateway drug to Hex. All those people coming off World of Warcraft, trying out Hearthstone, getting bored with its simplicity- then they hear about a game like Hearthstone but more complex.... they find Hex TCG and inject it in-between their toes so no one at work finds out they are using.

This !

Corpselocker
08-19-2013, 10:07 PM
If anything, Hearthstone may serve as a gateway drug to Hex. All those people coming off World of Warcraft, trying out Hearthstone, getting bored with its simplicity- then they hear about a game like Hearthstone but more complex.... they find Hex TCG and inject it in-between their toes so no one at work finds out they are using.

Hai! Concur as written.

RanaDunes
08-19-2013, 11:00 PM
I doubt CZE target audience was "everyone". I am sure CZE were targeting TCG players first and maybe attract other people interested in this. Blizzard target market has always been everyone and their dog and Hearthstone is going to be "successful". It will be a good good especially with Blizzard eSport going on I am sure it will be quite popular.


I think Hex and Hearthstone are different. Different enough to make some people play both at the same time. But I doubt Hearthstone is going to "hurt" Hex, I really doubt it. Especially for TCG/CCG players.

I've been waiting for a game with play-freedom like that of MTG and mainly the "reactive" mechanic. No matter what turn/phase you are you can most likely play a Quick Action or an Ability. I miss that... I really miss that. Hearthstone is not going to provide such depth, Hex will. If you're a TCG player you know you want that "surprise" factor. And I mean real surprise, not "secrets" you throw in your turn. I want to worry about my opponent during my turn, I want to guess if he can dispell/interrupt/ruin my plans during my turn. That kind of depth will be delivered by Hex and no other TCG Online Game (Except for MTG) if you know any other let me know please.

nikareijii
08-20-2013, 01:33 AM
The main difference between this two games is STACK. HEX is game with stack, which makes it a competitive sport-like game. Hearthstone is a casual solitaire without stack.

jaxsonbatemanhex
08-20-2013, 01:35 AM
Well when I think back to the beginnings of WoW, I didn't know much about it. I had heard about it, then one of my mates told me it was really good, and got me to try it. 8 years later, and I wish I had some of that time back. :-P

I'm a firm believer that if a game is good enough, people will know about it.

Barov
08-20-2013, 01:50 AM
I think they should take a lesson from Hearthstone though. Given beta keys to popular streamers who have thousands of viewers is an excellent way to build recognition and hype for a game.

Chiany
08-20-2013, 02:11 AM
I think they should take a lesson from Hearthstone though. Given beta keys to popular streamers who have thousands of viewers is an excellent way to build recognition and hype for a game.

Which streamers do you mean?

Barov
08-20-2013, 02:12 AM
Which streamers do you mean?

Kripp currently streaming with 12k viewers. Chaox from LoL was streaming earlier and Reckful (dont know him, but he had over 5k).

I mean hearthstone has beaten Dota all day in number of viewers on twitch.

Vengus
08-20-2013, 02:13 AM
I think they should take a lesson from Hearthstone though. Given beta keys to popular streamers who have thousands of viewers is an excellent way to build recognition and hype for a game.
That depends, I have come across a lot of biased reviewers who might say bad things about a game simply because it isn't being made by *insert favorite game company here*.

Zoelef
08-20-2013, 02:38 AM
In terms of gameplay Hearthstone more closely compares to Scrolls than to Hex; it seems comparisons between Hearthstone and Hex are primarily due to the closeness of their release dates.

On the other hand, if I knew people would so eagerly spend $50+ on a beta invite for a F2P game, I would've bought 10-20 more King Tiers strictly to resell them for 100%+ profit.

Mathaw
08-20-2013, 02:46 AM
Will it have more appeal than a supposedly hardcore TCG? You betya.

This is only a problem if you consider it one.

Protip: Hardcore users spend more $$$ than casual players. Having a massive non-paying user base isn't profitable for anyone.

It's chalk and cheese, they're not in competition with each other because they're different products.

Hex is competing with MTGO, which is a pile of…

Patrigan
08-20-2013, 03:02 AM
Protip: Hardcore users spend more $$$ than casual players.

This is actually incorrect for a normal TCG. For every "pro" who travels to events, there are at least 3-5 casuals who don't travel as much. A pro usually buys his cards in singles, while the casuals are more prone to the amazing feeling of opening a booster pack. So assuming 4 casuals have the same number of cards as a pro, CZE would have made more of the 4 casuals than the pro. Yes, singles stores also need to open boosters, but a big chunk of their inventory also comes from buying the cards from players. I am not taking into account event product, because at local events this is the same for both, and I think higher level events have a smaller impact.

That said, CZE needs to have both groups well represented. Pros make casuals want to buy more, while casuals give a pro a bigger field to play against (and thus get more prizes from).

I'm not sure how it works with Hex's internal AH, where both the booster sales and single sales make CZE money. So it could be different for Hex, but I sincerely doubt it. However, if there is one thing the AH will do, it's getting players to more easily pay real money for more cards. The ease of buying with small numbers is one of the reasons social games became so popular and profitable.

Lunarath
08-20-2013, 03:07 AM
You're posting a poll from a site covering mostly just blizzard games, and you're taking it as gods word... I wouldn't worry too much... Hearthstone and HEX appeal to different catagories of players as i see it. There's room for both

Shadowelf
08-20-2013, 03:26 AM
I think that the players that hex will lose to hearthstone (if any) will only be 10 year olds and blizzard fanboys. All others that seek a mature, deep and strategic card game will choose hex and judging by mtg's success, we know what people prefer the most

Skydive
08-20-2013, 03:37 AM
I think that the players that hex will lose to hearthstone (if any) will only be 10 year olds and blizzard fanboys. All others that seek a mature, deep and strategic card game will choose hex and judging by mtg's success, we know what people prefer the most

#

pretty much that, hearthstone looks like its from 5 year olds for 5 year olds
additionally its more likely that hearthstone will loose players to hex and not the other way around, its simple.
Hearthstone is in beta right now and has a playerbase, u cant play hex at all atm (besides gencon ofc)
so many people who backed for hey and will play it pplay hearthstone atm and will most likely switch to hex when its out.
u cant loose players when there are non which is the case so far, we are all only wannabe players =)

Mathaw
08-20-2013, 03:44 AM
This is actually incorrect for a normal TCG. For every "pro" who travels to events, there are at least 3-5 casuals who don't travel as much. A pro usually buys his cards in singles, while the casuals are more prone to the amazing feeling of opening a booster pack. So assuming 4 casuals have the same number of cards as a pro, CZE would have made more of the 4 casuals than the pro. Yes, singles stores also need to open boosters, but a big chunk of their inventory also comes from buying the cards from players. I am not taking into account event product, because at local events this is the same for both, and I think higher level events have a smaller impact.

That said, CZE needs to have both groups well represented. Pros make casuals want to buy more, while casuals give a pro a bigger field to play against (and thus get more prizes from).

I'm not sure how it works with Hex's internal AH, where both the booster sales and single sales make CZE money. So it could be different for Hex, but I sincerely doubt it. However, if there is one thing the AH will do, it's getting players to more easily pay real money for more cards. The ease of buying with small numbers is one of the reasons social games became so popular and profitable.

I more meant in the gaming world, the average WOW player enticed to Hearthstone isn't primed to spend $50 a month on digital cards. However the average MTGO player looking for a better quality product is.

That 'bulk' of people that will make the difference between the subscriber bases isn't going to be worth a lot (financially), IMO.

Icepick
08-20-2013, 03:51 AM
It's worth pointing out I think that the thread linked in the OP was started way back in May, right after the Hex kickstarter started. Even if it meant anything then, I doubt it does now.

Khazrakh
08-20-2013, 04:05 AM
It's worth pointing out I think that the thread linked in the OP was started way back in May, right after the Hex kickstarter started. Even if it meant anything then, I doubt it does now.

And it had 221 voters. On a fansite dedicated to World of Warcraft.
As others have mentioned before - you can't compare Hex and Hearthstone and Hex won't lose players to Hearthstone, but Hearthstone might actually get some people interestend in TCGs and hence get them to try Hex.

Maphalux
08-20-2013, 04:57 AM
I don't think HEX will lose people to Hearthstone only because HEX isn't out yet. Nobody is playing it so they can't lose anyone. But I do think that those who would be interested in HEX PvE may also be interested in Hearthstone. Maybe even some of the players who are looking at HEX because of the PvP.

But realistically, Hearthstone can only be so strategic and complex. It is meant to be a very casual game. The people who are apt to like it so much that they won't play anything else wouldn't have liked HEX much anyway. And the people that would be attracted to HEX are likely to not get permanently pulled in by Hearthstone.

Stok3d
08-20-2013, 05:37 AM
Do you not agree? The link I used was tied directly into my title. Then I went straight into my argument for why we should change this. Think you shoulda used a less pointless post in my thread...

Title Changed to something less Controversial.

iscariotrex
08-20-2013, 05:41 AM
I've been reading up since those beta passes have been going out, and for a casual game I'm hearing that Hearthstone has a pretty steep grind curve. If the Hex PVE experience is as robust and feels more rewarding, I could easily see it pulling in casual Hearthstone dropouts. It has basically been said that the games can help each other out, and I believe they will. Once you know you dig CCG/TCG's as a gaming format, you tend to check out the other games in the field when you are a little bored with the one you are on. Whoever provides a better experience will "win" in the end. Darwinian gaming.

Stok3d
08-20-2013, 05:42 AM
It's worth pointing out I think that the thread linked in the OP was started way back in May, right after the Hex kickstarter started. Even if it meant anything then, I doubt it does now.

Yes, his link is absolutely meaningless as it took place before KS end. However, telling everyone about Hex is a good thing and I personally believe HS is a great thing for everyone in the TCG genre. After 10million+ try out HS as in game rewards are given in WoW for doing so, curiosity will hit to try out Hex as well. The only limiting factor is that ppl have to hear about the game. Hex will sell itself after they try it.

Ginaz
08-20-2013, 12:31 PM
I'm in the Hearthstone closed beta. While I have yet to play Hex, Hearthstone does appear to be a much more casual game. I can't say that I care for the fact that you can't chose to block your opponents attacks and so far it seems to be a very creature heavy game. Also, I REALLY don't like that any packs you buy during the beta will be refunded to you when the game goes live, meaning you lose all the cards you collected during the beta. Overall, though, its not too bad so far and its kind of fun. The UI is clean and serviceable, if a bit over engineered, and anyone who is a fan of the Warcraft universe would probably enjoy it. Its much better than Solforge, Scrolls and Infinity Wars. I'm predicting Blizzard is going to make boatloads of money from this.

Ghost
08-20-2013, 12:42 PM
I think that the players that hex will lose to hearthstone (if any) will only be 10 year olds and blizzard fanboys. All others that seek a mature, deep and strategic card game will choose hex and judging by mtg's success, we know what people prefer the most

Okay, lol.

MoikPEI
08-20-2013, 12:48 PM
1) Find threads where people are complaining about Hearthstone for any reason
2) Post your Hex Referral Link*
3) ????
4) Massive Hex Community

* Requires a Referrals System to exist

Hearthstone will grow the market for card games. A lot of people still trust Blizzard to make good games and will buy then try anything they put out. They'll gain a taste for card games. Hex will be getting a slice of a pie which will now be bigger. Both the Community and CZE have the power to grow the size of the slice within that now bigger pie. Another way to do that would be with having cool artwork to share such as can be made for the Murder Inc Art Contest for prizes, so win-win.

Ginaz
08-20-2013, 12:50 PM
Okay, lol.

Yeah, I think people underestimate how many people will play Hearthstone just because they're fans of the Warcraft series. Hopefully they will migrate to Hex if they're looking for a much deeper and challenging game. Like I said earlier, I firmly believe Blizzard is going to make a fortune from Hearthstone.

Stok3d
08-20-2013, 12:54 PM
If Cryptozoic takes control of the front page of wowhead.com and gets some more advertisement on MMO-Champions.com when Hex Launches and after Hearthstone launches, we'll get a mass influx. The timing may be perfect after patch 5.4 on WoW and then there is that long wait between the last patch and the next expansion. That is also a time where ppl tend to want to try out another game...

As a community though, if we kept up awareness of Hex, it will make a world of difference. This game will sell itself, ppl just need to try the F2P.

Shadowelf
08-20-2013, 01:19 PM
Okay, lol.

Can you express a bit of your reasoning instead of lol ?

I believe that it will easier for people to move from hearthstone to hex than vice versa; people that will look for a deep strategic game will choose hex (mtg players ) instead of a simpler game like hearthstone. Also part of the people that will start hearthstone due to the fact that they are fans of blizzard/warcraft universe, will turn to hex once they feel that they are ready to pass to the next level. I'm not saying that hearthstone won't have its fans, nor that blizzard won't make lots of money out of it; i just don't believe that blizzard's 'yu-gi-oh' will steal players from cze's 'mtg'; i know alot of people that moved from yu-gi-oh to mtg but none that did this trip the other way around

Ginaz
08-20-2013, 01:43 PM
Can you express a bit of your reasoning instead of lol ?

I believe that it will easier for people to move from hearthstone to hex than vice versa; people that will look for a deep strategic game will choose hex (mtg players ) instead of a simpler game like hearthstone. Also part of the people that will start hearthstone due to the fact that they are fans of blizzard/warcraft universe, will turn to hex once they feel that they are ready to pass to the next level. I'm not saying that hearthstone won't have its fans, nor that blizzard won't make lots of money out of it; i just don't believe that blizzard's 'yu-gi-oh' will steal players from cze's 'mtg'; i know alot of people that moved from yu-gi-oh to mtg but none that did this trip the other way around

I think you're really underestimating how much people like the Warcraft IP. Its what drew many people to WoW in the first place.

Shadowelf
08-20-2013, 02:41 PM
. Its what drew many people to WoW in the first place.

True, but you know what kept them there ? that wow was the most pioneering mmo of its time (or perhaps all time). I don't think that hearthstone is such ;)

MoikPEI
08-20-2013, 02:42 PM
A lot of people eventually burned out on WoW and moved to other MMOs.
WoW got them accustomed to the mechanics, but the content would grow stale.
Every MMO guild I've ever been in has had a brace of ex-WoW players.

Arbiter
08-20-2013, 02:44 PM
1) Find threads where people are complaining about Hearthstone for any reason
2) Post your Hex Referral Link*
3) ????
4) Massive Hex Community


That would violate Blizzard's forum rules (Hex's as well if someone did the reverse), and you'd find the thread deleted (and probably get a warning/suspension) pretty quickly, by the staff paid to look after the forums.

blakegrandon
08-20-2013, 02:45 PM
I think you're really underestimating how much people like the Warcraft IP. Its what drew many people to WoW in the first place.

I've always supported Blizzard, I own every collectors edition to ever be released, that said Blizzard is like the uncle you grew up with that turned into an alcoholic. Blizzard means well but is constantly puking everywhere, screwing up and then asking for forgiveness, while they spend all the money you give them on alcohol...

After the RMAH/D3 grindfest, I'm wary to support Blizzard in any future games.

But what the hell, I'm an enabler, so I'll probably check out Hearthstone while playing Hex primarily.

I kinda wish Cryptozoic had teamed together with Blizzard, instead it feels like being caught in a messy divorce where you can't decide which one you want to spend more time with...

Nicalapegus
08-20-2013, 07:06 PM
Yes, his link is absolutely meaningless as it took place before KS end. However, telling everyone about Hex is a good thing and I personally believe HS is a great thing for everyone in the TCG genre. After 10million+ try out HS as in game rewards are given in WoW for doing so, curiosity will hit to try out Hex as well. The only limiting factor is that ppl have to hear about the game. Hex will sell itself after they try it.

My link is completely meaningless? Really. So the opinions of customers doesn't matter? "Back in may" is.. uh.. 3 months ago guys.

Stok3d
08-20-2013, 07:08 PM
My link is completely meaningless? Really. So the opinions of customers doesn't matter? "Back in may" is.. uh.. 3 months ago guys.

KS began May 8th and ended June 7th. The representation of ppl knowing anything about Hex was low. Hence that poll carries no validity really. It was created only 1 week after KS began.

Nicalapegus
08-20-2013, 07:18 PM
If anything when the KS was going on people knew more about Hex than now. We don't have media releases, we don't have new Youtube videos... all of the new information was coming out during the KS. The gaming sites were covering it during the KS.

What I really wanted to know is... how do we make sure people know about Hex? I plan on dressing up as a Shinhare as Halloween. Do your part. :P

Dralon
08-20-2013, 07:42 PM
Hearthstone is a blast from my 2 days playing it. Quick and fun, and games can turn on a dime...thus while there is a strategic element to it, there is a much heavier luck component than in Hex. I played Hex multiple times at Gen con and it was a blast as well. It's luck/skill balance is more scewed towards skill.

If both games are executed well, as it seems they are, there is room for both games without a doubt. Many people will play one or the other, and a smaller segment will play both. One game does not have to fail for the other to succeed. In the grand scheme of things more people are going to play candy crush than either of these games, so just enjoy the fact players have so many great options.

Shrennan
08-20-2013, 07:48 PM
Yes. It's absolutely meaningless because of the date. KS began May 8th and ended June 7th.
The representation of ppl knowing anything about Hex was low. Hence that poll carries no validity really. It was created only 1 week after KS began.

Also, while Hex is known in the TCG community by now, the real test of its popularity will be during its beta phase and early release phase. I think Hex has a chance to be THE League of Legends of TCGs (essentially, what League of Legends was to the MOBA genre, Hex will be to the digital TCG genre) - however, League didn't suddenly grow to its massive popularity, it propelled once people got to actually play it.

Right now, I would say that Hearthstone is more popular. It has the Blizzard marketing machine and franchise power behind it. Then again, Blizzard also had total control of the MOBA genre, but they gave it up which led to League of Legends. They should have developed DOTA into a fully fledged, stand-alone game when they had the chance.

jimmywolf
08-20-2013, 07:50 PM
If anything when the KS was going on people knew more about Hex than now. We don't have media releases, we don't have new Youtube videos... all of the new information was coming out during the KS. The gaming sites were covering it during the KS.

What I really wanted to know is... how do we make sure people know about Hex? I plan on dressing up as a Shinhare as Halloween. Do your part. :P

their few videos of hex on you tube, mostly card preview stuff thu. when alpha out their be something more too present an encourage others too check out. right now it mostly fans waiting an exploring the what if's.

nearlysober
08-27-2013, 02:03 PM
I'm not in the Hearthstone beta, but man the "look & feel" polish of Hearthstone is amazing.

I know HEX will have more interesting and complex gameplay, but I'm hoping the Alpha client has a bit of shine on it if you want to pull people off the street... everything, not just gameplay, but everything including lobbies, opening decks, etc... it's gotta feel & look good.

nicosharp
08-27-2013, 03:17 PM
I'm very impressed with Hearthstone and have been enjoying those streaming it on Twitch. They really take a card game to a new level by board state presentation, and digitized animations for card interactions. I hope we get to see some of that ingenuity in Hex, that we have not yet seen in demos. (Maybe a year or two down the road). I also really like the fact that most games are 10minutes long, and the current arena system allows for flexible breaks in-between games.

The only downside to Hearthstone is that it is not on the same level of Magic/WoW TCG that involves drawing resources, increasing deck sizes, that increase luck factor for drawing, and allowing cards to be played on an opponents turn.

Shadowelf
08-27-2013, 03:29 PM
Well thay have said a dozen times that the game will undertake a lot of polish before being finalized so i wouldn't worry over polishing that much. I know that lots of people love it but what really matters in card games is playability; strategy, depth, multiple formats;collectivity; cards retaining value, trading ; hex appears to have all this and more. Best example mtgo; it managed to endure for years with thousands of players while being unpolished and somewhat rusty. As for functionality i bet that they will do what is necessary for the game to be fun and enjoyable while playing

Miwa
08-27-2013, 03:47 PM
Definitely being able to play games at whatever rate you want in the Arena is a pretty great thing.

iscariotrex
08-27-2013, 08:35 PM
Don't hit me or anything... but if you happen to have a spare Hearthstone betakey sitting around, feel free to pass it to me:D.

I am so glad I have Alpha access to Hex now. I won't have to see awesome streams of people playing a game I am being completely denied. Hex needs to get here quick; I can't wait.

Sorry in advance for the largely pointless post. I'm sure some of you out there are feeling my pain.

Mathaw
08-28-2013, 08:56 AM
I've always supported Blizzard, I own every collectors edition to ever be released, that said Blizzard is like the uncle you grew up with that turned into an alcoholic. Blizzard means well but is constantly puking everywhere, screwing up and then asking for forgiveness, while they spend all the money you give them on alcohol...

After the RMAH/D3 grindfest, I'm wary to support Blizzard in any future games.

But what the hell, I'm an enabler, so I'll probably check out Hearthstone while playing Hex primarily.

I kinda wish Cryptozoic had teamed together with Blizzard, instead it feels like being caught in a messy divorce where you can't decide which one you want to spend more time with...

Haha, I agree with everything you wrote.

Mathaw
08-28-2013, 09:01 AM
Well thay have said a dozen times that the game will undertake a lot of polish before being finalized so i wouldn't worry over polishing that much. I know that lots of people love it but what really matters in card games is playability; strategy, depth, multiple formats;collectivity; cards retaining value, trading ; hex appears to have all this and more. Best example mtgo; it managed to endure for years with thousands of players while being unpolished and somewhat rusty. As for functionality i bet that they will do what is necessary for the game to be fun and enjoyable while playing

I'm not worried about the polish pf Hex because it already looks pretty amazing, but I did want to say that I don't totally agree with you. MTGO has the mechanics, the gameplay, the players, but it's absolute rubbish as a client and Wizards are primed to lose a battle they should by all rights win because of it. MTGO, an example you provide, has only had as much success as it has because for a long time it's been the only option. It's hardly surprising that its endured, as its had no competition.

User experience doesn't trump functionality, but equally functionally doesn't trump user experience. For a successful product that people want to use, both need to be provided in equal measure. This is what Hex is doing, and likely why it's got so much support - it's everything MTGO should have been, and more.

Shadowelf
08-28-2013, 10:06 AM
I'm not worried about the polish pf Hex because it already looks pretty amazing, but I did want to say that I don't totally agree with you. MTGO has the mechanics, the gameplay, the players, but it's absolute rubbish as a client and Wizards are primed to lose a battle they should by all rights win because of it. MTGO, an example you provide, has only had as much success as it has because for a long time it's been the only option. It's hardly surprising that its endured, as its had no competition.

User experience doesn't trump functionality, but equally functionally doesn't trump user experience. For a successful product that people want to use, both need to be provided in equal measure. This is what Hex is doing, and likely why it's got so much support - it's everything MTGO should have been, and more.

The only thing that it appears we disagree is mtgo's success. I agree that their client is somewhat old (rusty as i said above), but a game that has 300k subscribers and "somewhere between 30% to 50% of the total Magic business", is successful in my eyes, no matter the competition (source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_Online). I can't imagine what hex can achieve if it properly builds on what mtgo lacks

Mathaw
08-28-2013, 10:12 AM
The only thing that it appears we disagree is mtgo's success. I agree that their client is somewhat old (rusty as i said above), but a game that has 300k subscribers and "somewhere between 30% to 50% of the total Magic business", is successful in my eyes, no matter the competition (source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_Online). I can't imagine what hex can achieve if it properly builds on what mtgo lacks

I didn't say that MTGO wasn't successful, quite the contrary, I said that it was successful because it was the only available option. It's also had success due to its legacy.

Also the client isn't rusty, it's an unapologetic pile of crap. They have a beta client now (as in brand new) and it feels like it was built by a very confused person sometime in the 90s.

Captive audiences can't really be used as an example. If you were the only guy selling water in the desert but it came with a kick to the shins you'd have as many customers as if you didn't kick their shins. Doesn't mean that shin kicking is a non-factor in an open water marketplace.

Mindless
08-28-2013, 02:46 PM
Don't casual games tends to draw more people than the "heavier ones"? I think there will be some players that play heartstone instead of hex or will change between them just because its more casual. Also I think that card games seems to be a starting trend right now so both (and other cardgames as well) will have room to exist and expand for a, many or at least some years.

I think the better question is which will become the bigger esport game and that will depend heavily on the ability to show games to the masses. I also think that in terms of reputation Heartstones origin (Blizzard brand) will favor heartstone at least in the begining. I have no knowledge on blizzards point of view (but we all know Corys dream) nor about heartstones as well as Hexs ability to observe ongoing games. There has to be at least a mode that reveals boths hands somehow to an observer.

Shadowelf
08-28-2013, 02:51 PM
I think the better question is which will become the bigger esport game and that will depend heavily on the ability to show games to the masses. I also think that in terms of reputation Heartstones origin (Blizzard brand) will favor heartstone at least in the begining. I have no knowledge on blizzards point of view (but we all know Corys dream) nor about heartstones as well as Hexs ability to observe ongoing games. There has to be at least a mode that reveals boths hands somehow to an observer.

They are definitely planning a spectator mode; Cory recognizes how important it will be for the game to have and sort of ‘create’ pros if it is to turn into an e-sport. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUn3gOclMc check 0:35:40 and also http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg/b/412300360 check 0:31:50) There will also be a replay option, as it was unlocked with the 1.06 KS stretch goal (update #12 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...e/posts?page=6)

Mindless
08-28-2013, 03:26 PM
They are definitely planning a spectator mode; Cory recognizes how important it will be for the game to have and sort of ‘create’ pros if it is to turn into an e-sport. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUn3gOclMc check 0:35:40 and also http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg/b/412300360 check 0:31:50) There will also be a replay option, as it was unlocked with the 1.06 KS stretch goal (update #12 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...e/posts?page=6)

Yep seen it before and I hope that its gets in there and work like a charm ;) But we have no concrete information as of when (guessing launch or later?) and how it works.

EDIT: Many of you surely knows how LoL lets you easily observe ongoing games. i believe this kind of ease is important, at least for commentators and such. I think that replay is less important than live so even if we do know that replay is comming it might not affect the esport factor that much but I'm not a general fan of replay for the purpose of watching others but rather to save oneselfs awesome moments.

Shadowelf
08-28-2013, 03:42 PM
EDIT: Many of you surely knows how LoL lets you easily observe ongoing games. i believe this kind of ease is important, at least for commentators and such. I think that replay is less important than live so even if we do know that replay is comming it might not affect the esport factor that much but I'm not a general fan of replay for the purpose of watching others but rather to save oneselfs awesome moments.

I think that spectator mode refers to being able to watch live matches, while replay, matches that have been played, both yours and others. Both are in their plans, both are treated as equally important judging by how passionately Cory speaks about them

Snuffal
08-28-2013, 04:29 PM
There is one feature in Hearthstone that I would like to see implemented in Hex. In Hearthstone, you cannot chat to your opponent, only emote from a small selection. I like the fact that I do not have to worry about any crap coming from my opponent and as a result I am enjoying PvP more than PvE.

In Hex, I would like to see the option of allowing each player to be able to turn off chat before and/or during a game. I think this option would have some big benefits for Crypto: first, it would make PvP play more accessible for new players, and second, Crypto would not have to worry as much about managing griefing that may occur as each player is in control of whether they want chat on or off.

Zomnivore
08-28-2013, 04:44 PM
I personally see how communication between a rival could seem like a recipe for disaster.

Not every game community is a vicious dog pile though, you still need to be prepared.

I think MTGO has chat and I don't hear a big uproar about their communities vitriol.

Aradon
08-28-2013, 05:10 PM
There can be a bit of raging in MtGO, but it's nothing like VOIP abuse or the trash talking you see in the worst F2P communities. Mostly all you ever get is "lol lucky draw" and a bit of negative attitude. That being said, that can really sour a game, and I'm looking forward to Hearthstone's non-communication.

However, Hearthstone's pretty acknowledged as a simplified/limited game with less comprehensive features. Hex aims to be an MMO, with many fleshed out features. I highly doubt it'd interfere with chat. You can expect an ignore feature, but I would expect chat rooms to go with each match.

Snuffal
08-28-2013, 05:27 PM
I agree that some aspects of the MMO game play will make chat very important. However, for 1v1 random PvP, I would appreciate the option of turning off chat and perhaps just communicating with some emotes. I find in Hearthstone I enjoy using the emotes.

Psylacus
08-28-2013, 09:55 PM
Chat should be optional, but it should be there. I have played against many a folk whom I enjoy playing against and learned strategy later from.

iscariotrex
08-28-2013, 10:34 PM
In MMO's I've played, chat was largely handled by vent... I like the idea of having a hearthstone esq prompt system for pvp and having vent open for guild voice chat, so I can talk to the people I want to talk to. Conversely, it does make the game a little cold and impersonal. There are turds out there, but you never know; the person "across the table from you" could be your new best friend.

Snuffal
08-28-2013, 11:15 PM
I agree. That is why I would like the option of turning off chat once a game has started...

Shrennan
08-28-2013, 11:15 PM
In MMO's I've played, chat was largely handled by vent... I like the idea of having a hearthstone esq prompt system for pvp and having vent open for guild voice chat, so I can talk to the people I want to talk to. Conversely, it does make the game a little cold and impersonal. There are turds out there, but you never know; the person "across the table from you" could be your new best friend.

There should be both options for Hex. The prompt system could be short phrases you can get your champion to say, but there should also be a text and/or voice system for players to say what they want. If certain players prefer only the prompt system then they can restrict chat (text or voice).

Khazrakh
08-29-2013, 12:37 AM
I agree. That is why I would like the option of turning off chat once a game has started...

Or just have an option in the settings to disable it by default.
I don't need a chat/emoticons/whatever in PvP.

Mindless
08-29-2013, 04:56 AM
Or just have an option in the settings to disable it by default.
I don't need a chat/emoticons/whatever in PvP.

Same and great idea.

keroko
08-29-2013, 07:00 AM
the cost per card is obscene in hearthstone it appears.

panix
09-02-2013, 02:08 PM
chat is required for a MMO , doesnt matter if revolutionary TCG , about the pvp part yeah something like you can turn it off before game start feature seems allright , even tho i believe there are people like me who think that communication is the most important , doesnt matter if 1v1 rivaly game.
EDIT : yeah forgot to express my opinion about the hex vs HS , it will all come down to the player at the end, but seeing hex as a better version of mtg( if not at the begging , in future) people who love card games will slowly come after it, HS seems a fun game to waste time on , but its so repetative , and the rng is ridicilous ( oh blizzard...) but from what ive observed over the years people who play card games dont just play them for the lulz ( most of the people, personal opinion) so yeah , lets hope for a bright future for HEX

Mokog
09-03-2013, 03:52 AM
An observation about tcgs. A great TCG with depth and great design makes you feel like you can take on the world with "bad cards." A poorly designed game rips the façade off a player quickly and incentivizes them to buy the good cards quickly. Hex makes you feel like you want to go deeper. Hearthstone reminds you that you need $10 for your next hit else you are cut off from the win sauce.

Just an observation.
~Mokog

Diesbudt
09-03-2013, 06:33 AM
the cost per card is obscene in hearthstone it appears.

It is. And you cannot truly compete unless you pay some nice money. It takes 100 wins to get 1 free booster currently. So you have to Pay to play beyond just "playing around"

Plus no trading or selling of cards.

Gulbech
09-03-2013, 12:45 PM
It is. And you cannot truly compete unless you pay some nice money. It takes 100 wins to get 1 free booster currently. So you have to Pay to play beyond just "playing around"

Plus no trading or selling of cards.

I really hate cardgames where you cant trade with other players, then you really have to spend an insane amount of money or get really lucky to get the cards you want to play with.

HEX is going to be so much better!

Shadowelf
09-03-2013, 01:28 PM
I really hate cardgames where you cant trade with other players, then you really have to spend an insane amount of money or get really lucky to get the cards you want to play with.

HEX is going to be so much better!

Yeah share the sentiments; been playing duels of champions for some time and really hated the fact that you can't trade cards. Felt like you were a slave of RNG's whims, that manipulated your enjoyment of the game. You either had to spend a bunch money on it or play all day long to acquire the cards you needed, with no quarantees that you will be getting those cards on either path

Miwa
09-03-2013, 01:40 PM
Why would you play anything but Arena with cash in Hearthstone anyway? If you are better than average, you will probably get gold to often offset your next round of Arena, and you get a pack for each play at a minimum. And you don't have to worry about god decks constructed from people with way more dollars than sense...

You get enough gold to play again at what, 7 wins?

Aradon
09-03-2013, 01:48 PM
7 wins, yes.

Those saying that the lack of trading makes it difficult and unreliable to get the cards you need: Hearthstone allows you to turn unwanted cards into dust, which you can use to buy exact cards for your collection. It's not a great rate, but you're guaranteed the ability to turn X packs into 'getting the card you wanted.'
I haven't played it, so I don't really know how difficult it is to assemble a deck given the disenchant system.

Gulbech
09-03-2013, 01:59 PM
Yeah sound great, i need to destroy my cards to once in a while get one i want - i tried that in kings and legends and dont make the game more fun or less pay to have a chance.

A part of the social aspect in games like these, is also to be able to trade with your friends. So if you get a card they really want, let them have some fun with it instead and you get something you want too.

Hotcooler
09-03-2013, 02:05 PM
What I really, really like about Hearthstone, is the simple fact of predictability and total lack of RNG in mana system. You just dont have that horrendous stuff like 5-6-7 turns with no mana or 5-6-7 turns of getting only mana you get in MTG. And I hate when that happens, I find it very annoying to have your resource cards shuffled into your deck personally.

I dont really understand the need for nearly every digital TCG to replicate systems built for pen-and-paper pretty much even though they have horrible RNG and frustration attached to them. I just dont see any reason to have resource cards in the deck, none.

I'd even say that the sacrifice system built into "Scrolls" is better. That game has 99 problems, but at least that aint the one.

TLDR : I dont like loosing dames due to resource draw RNG. And If I can judge that correctly via playing quite a bit of Magic 2014, that happens way to often, and someone get screwed with that very often...

P.S. And yes I know they said they'll do all in their power for that not to be that bad, but it will be bad, it just will..

P.P.S. As for Hearthstone, currently I really think that the main attraction of the game is Arena, not custom decks.

Xenavire
09-03-2013, 02:13 PM
What I really, really like about Hearthstone, is the simple fact of predictability and total lack of RNG in mana system. You just dont have that horrendous stuff like 5-6-7 turns with no mana or 5-6-7 turns of getting only mana you get in MTG. And I hate when that happens, I find it very annoying to have your resource cards shuffled into your deck personally.

I dont really understand the need for nearly every digital TCG to replicate systems built for pen-and-paper pretty much even though they have horrible RNG and frustration attached to them. I just dont see any reason to have resource cards in the deck, none.

I'd even say that the sacrifice system built into "Scrolls" is better. That game has 99 problems, but at least that aint the one.

TLDR : I dont like loosing dames due to resource draw RNG. And If I can judge that correctly via playing quite a bit of Magic 2014, that happens way to often, and someone get screwed with that very often...

Magic 2014 is bad. I am fairly sure the AI cheats, and you are given near unplayable hands a large percentage of the time. Even with that though, a good player should always come out fine - it comes down to sorting out your deck beforehand, and making sure you balanced your curve. The premade decks are pretty bad though, it takes a lot of tweaking to get them even close to playable.

Sealed is fun, but the pools... They should have let them be reset, and had a larger variety in cards.

Hotcooler
09-03-2013, 02:21 PM
Yeah, I'm mostly talking about humans in Sealed. Still resource system is infuriating to say the least. And I sure hope it wont be that bad in Hex, but I dont have high hopes for that... IMO system is just not good, it adds more RNG to a game that is highly reliant on RNG...

Xenavire
09-03-2013, 02:27 PM
I think Hex has a decent handle on it, but we need to get some playtesting done to be sure.

But more resources (which would normally flood you) give you charges, so adding more resources isn't as bad as it is in magic, meaning deckbuilding and RNG both can be more forgiving.

Looking forward to getting into the thick of it to be honest.

Dralon
09-03-2013, 02:37 PM
Don't get me wrong, I love hearthstone, and hate mana screw. But games in hearthstone are determined more by luck of the draw than I feel games in magic or hex are. So while you have reliability in mana gain that you don't have in magic and hex always, there is still a very significant random factor that decides a lot of games. Much more pronounced to me in hearthstone than it was in the Wowtcg where you did have the ability to mana fix to a large degree.

Hotcooler
09-03-2013, 02:50 PM
I do aggree that there's still a lot on RNG, that's the nature of the game, it's one less layer of RNG to work with, though to be honest I do also like the ability to directly hit stuff... I get that it's a different game with a different play style and all that, but it's way to annoying to have something hexproof, and protected from creatures / unblockable in Magic, you just can deal with it without board wipes pretty much.

I am pretty new to TCG's but still, basically I guess what I'm saying that Hearthstone does quite a bit right in my mind. Atleast it does not stick with age old and tried something new (I might be wrong here though).

Scrolls had some very nice ideas too, but half of them do not work that well.. like the fact that deck rotates and I think it overcomplicated itself with the big HoMM style board. It all leads to me having games that last for like 1.5 hours....



BTW in a sort of related question to veteran TCG guys, what does draft mode look like in HEX/MTG? I quite like how it works in Hearthstone's arena, but it's quite hard to imagine how it would work in HEX with 5 different colors.. MTG's one (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering/Booster_Draft) does not look that great to me (Though I guess it's quite close to how Sealed works in Magic 2014 - which is also not that great I would say..).

Gulbech
09-03-2013, 03:34 PM
Most games have some random element, except chess. But why does the best player then win most of the games?

I have played a lot of warhammer, involving a lot of dice rolls. Either i am extremely lucky or there are more to games then luck, as i ranked number 1 in my country for over a year. Good players understand randomness and do everything to play around it, stacking their odds. - In MTG it is also always the same players who does well in tournaments.

So in a game like HEX and MTG, the good players know the odds for everything and what the probability is for different cards comes up. They also make their deck to both have a good mana curve and have cards in the deck that can fix bad draws and mana problems. - one of the reason card like Ponder was so good in MTG.

Miwa
09-03-2013, 03:36 PM
Then you lose to curve screw and don't realize it, instead of mana screw. There's no magic bullet.

Shadowelf
09-03-2013, 04:33 PM
BTW in a sort of related question to veteran TCG guys, what does draft mode look like in HEX/MTG? I quite like how it works in Hearthstone's arena, but it's quite hard to imagine how it would work in HEX with 5 different colors.. MTG's one (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering/Booster_Draft) does not look that great to me (Though I guess it's quite close to how Sealed works in Magic 2014 - which is also not that great I would say..).

I consider draft more skill intensive than sealed; you have to read signals on what deck the player that passes you packs is trying to create, hate draft cards from others (picking powerful cards not in your chosen colors), and generally have a good understanding of the power of certain cards in draft (what to pick, what to avoid and why). Mtg's drafting is/looks pretty similar to hex's. Here is an article on drafting in hex http://hextcg.com/drafting-in-hex/

Blackhoof
09-04-2013, 07:29 AM
P.P.S. As for Hearthstone, currently I really think that the main attraction of the game is Arena, not custom decks.

I hope CZE will make some sort of arenas for casual PvP with rewards. Single tournament (draft or sealed) requires much time, 1-2 hours I think. While in arena i can play one game today and continue it tomorrow!

If it were some sort of sealed (when I open some boosters and make my deck from them) where I play until 2-4 loses against same players with decks made the same way, I would play this when have no time for drafts.

Khazrakh
09-04-2013, 08:03 AM
I hope CZE will make some sort of arenas for casual PvP with rewards. Single tournament (draft or sealed) requires much time, 1-2 hours I think. While in arena i can play one game today and continue it tomorrow!

If it were some sort of sealed (when I open some boosters and make my deck from them) where I play until 2-4 loses against same players with decks made the same way, I would play this when have no time for drafts.

To be honest, I was just about to stomp you into the ground for what you proposed. To me the Hearthstone Arena is just a watered down combination of sealed and draft and it really doesn't appeal to me.
But then again, the more I think about it, it isn't a bad idea after all. You can't do the pick 1 out of 3 cards style, but why not have some sort of limited arena playstyle? Take gold as entry fee and just hand out gold/crafting stuff/PvP Commons and maybe some special cards if you really manage to win a lot of games in a row as prizes. I guess that could be a good gold sink and a cool thing to do if you only have so many time and still want to do some limited games.

Blackhoof
09-04-2013, 08:30 AM
I thought about this "arena" like, for example, you pay 6 booster packs and 1$ for this, open your packs, make a deck and play.
Version with gold entry fee sounds good too, but player will not get any cards from packs and reward will doubtfully contain any PvP stuff like boosters or PvP cards because of it's only for gold.

Both versions are fun but i prefer to grind PvP stuff in PvP challenges and PvE stupp in PvE challenges. At last it's only idea. I doubt CZE will do something like this (it was not announced).

dogmod
09-04-2013, 08:44 AM
To be honest, I was just about to stomp you into the ground for what you proposed. To me the Hearthstone Arena is just a watered down combination of sealed and draft and it really doesn't appeal to me.
But then again, the more I think about it, it isn't a bad idea after all. You can't do the pick 1 out of 3 cards style, but why not have some sort of limited arena playstyle? Take gold as entry fee and just hand out gold/crafting stuff/PvP Commons and maybe some special cards if you really manage to win a lot of games in a row as prizes. I guess that could be a good gold sink and a cool thing to do if you only have so many time and still want to do some limited games.

People absolutely freaking love the arena... and for good reason. I think it has a lot to do with hearthstones popularity. You call it watered down but I think a lot of people call it improved.

Khazrakh
09-04-2013, 09:00 AM
People absolutely freaking love the arena... and for good reason. I think it has a lot to do with hearthstones popularity. You call it watered down but I think a lot of people call it improved.

I know a lot of people like it, I didn't mean any offense. It's watered down because you lack the interactions of draft as well as complexity of Sealed. You just pick the best out of 3 cards 30 times in a row. Sure you still have to look for your curve and maybe your minion/spell ration but that's about it really. In no way is it improved. It's just a simpler version of the limit formats that already exist. A lot of people like simple, that's why a lot of people like Hearthstone in the first place.

dogmod
09-04-2013, 09:04 AM
I know a lot of people like it, I didn't mean any offense. It's watered down because you lack the interactions of draft as well as complexity of Sealed. You just pick the best out of 3 cards 30 times in a row. Sure you still have to look for your curve and maybe your minion/spell ration but that's about it really. In no way is it improved. It's just a simpler version of the limit formats that already exist. A lot of people like simple, that's why a lot of people like Hearthstone in the first place.

Not trying to be antagonistic, sorry if I was a bit blunt. I think that it could be done with a sealed system but keeping the matchmaking/attempting to win a # of games but on your own time. I feel like some people like the simplicity but nearly everybody loves the pick up/drop aspects of it. Being able to play a game here or a game there on your own time but still feeling like you are getting a somewhat deep and competitive experience is what I like and I think a good number of other people like about the Arena. And if that is what they are borrowing from that then I think you don't have to call it watered down, you can just call it different.

Sealed deck construction + Arena style matchmaking/pickup and play. If they don't do it I would be very surprised.

This would be quite a bit more expensive than what the arena currently is though so it will be interesting to see if they do something that is simpler in terms of deck construction and doesn't allow you to keep cards that people can do over and over. Eventually I think we might hit a point where we fragment the player base too much if they keep adding game modes. Really need to develop a large player base before we get too far off on the different types.

Aruken
09-04-2013, 09:38 AM
(sorry, Hex will not be as balanced or well designed as MTG)
I wish someone than know both wow tcg and mtg could comfirm or deny that. (wow tcg being developped by Cryptozoic since 2010 being the point here). I played wow for years and I found it great.

I think the only problem Hex could face is people (like me) that absolutely do not want to shell out hundreds of $/€ a year so they can compete in pvp. One of the reason I have been waiting for years for the wow tcg to have a computer version is because I only played the game IRL during tournaments or else I was playing on MWS. Granted I never had a store or any friend that played wow at the time, I don't think it would have changed anything: I quickly learnt to buy the cards I needed outside of booster packs and only after a lot of testing on the internet, for free. (Maybe I am a fool for expecting to play great games for cheap btw)

So, what I am getting at is , I think, a LOT of people never got into MTG/WOW because it was freaking expensive from the get-go. Thoses people have been yearning for the occasion to join the fun (and try themselves on the competitve field), with the help of a convenient program.

If I have to shell out $100 to try the deck of my desire, only to find it does not work as expected, I'll be pissed and other people will be disenhearting too.
So, if HEX fails, in my opinion, it will be because it is too expensive to enter the fray. I know that is funny since I can already see a lot of people spending money on the watered down wow tcg like it is nothing, but I was not talking about business or making a profit here. HEX is already successful that way.

Maphalux
09-04-2013, 09:45 AM
I think HEX will address your concern in a couple ways, Aruken.

First guilds will have a deck bank where you can try those decks out without actually owning the cards. You won't be able to take them to tournaments or anything like that but it will give you the opportunity to see how the deck plays in order to determine if you want to buy the individual cards to make it.

There will also be the ability to watch other people's games at some point. This means you can watch how certain decks or specific cards performed in the tournament setting before putting down money on them yourself.

In addition, HEX is cheaper than M:TG. Therefore the cards will also be cheaper because it costs less to acquire them.

If all else fails, you can also just continue to use MWS to test cards before committing to their purchase in HEX.

Rieper
09-04-2013, 09:47 AM
Aruken: Find a good guild with people that use money then. Ask them to storage the deck in bank, where you can pick it up and test against guildies.
Hex has alot of option to help stuff like this already build in.

EDIT: I am to slow :(

Khazrakh
09-04-2013, 09:48 AM
Not trying to be antagonistic, sorry if I was a bit blunt. I think that it could be done with a sealed system but keeping the matchmaking/attempting to win a # of games but on your own time. I feel like some people like the simplicity but nearly everybody loves the pick up/drop aspects of it. Being able to play a game here or a game there on your own time but still feeling like you are getting a somewhat deep and competitive experience is what I like and I think a good number of other people like about the Arena. And if that is what they are borrowing from that then I think you don't have to call it watered down, you can just call it different.

Sealed deck construction + Arena style matchmaking/pickup and play. If they don't do it I would be very surprised.
[...]

I can agree on that and I actually think a sit&go limited format is a great idea. Watered down was more aimed towards the deck building/card picking process of the arena. The play until you lose X games is a great idea.
As pointed out above it could be a great way to offer another gold sink and maybe even get some PvE guys interested in Limited PvP. I don't think the player base will be a problem really. Hex is going to be big ;)

Aruken
09-04-2013, 10:13 AM
Thanks Maphalux and Rieper.
Glad to hear about the guild bank feature, it is something at least. Will I be able to hit a matchmaking pvp game of some sorts using such a stored deck? And don't you think the best/deck defining cards will almost all end up on ebay?

Shadowelf
09-04-2013, 10:22 AM
Thanks Maphalux and Rieper.
Glad to hear about the guild bank feature, it is something at least. Will I be able to hit a matchmaking pvp game of some sorts using such a stored deck? And don't you think the best/deck defining cards will almost all end up on ebay?

This is how the guild bank is supposed to work ;



3) Guild Bank = Yes, not sure if there will be a common pool to access, but there will be common decks. Let me explain:

Guildies will be able to create decks and put them into the guild bank (I believe there are a limited number of slots). Any guild member will then be able to "check them out" and play them against other guild members (can't play them against non-guild members or in tournaments). Think of this like a "gauntlet" where you put all the best decks in the current format in there, then you and your guildies test out all your decks against the guild decks to see if your strategies are working. We want to make sure deck testing is easy and intuitive for you.

You won't be able to trade the cards in these decks, and the original owner can check them back out for good or just to modify them. Also, only one person can have one of these checked in decks in a game at a time.

Lastly, we are also thinking of some way for guilds to gain the ability to have the top decks of major tournaments populated into their deck repository to play against.

Maphalux
09-04-2013, 10:23 AM
Thanks Maphalux and Rieper.
Glad to hear about the guild bank feature, it is something at least. Will I be able to hit a matchmaking pvp game of some sorts using such a stored deck? And don't you think the best/deck defining cards will almost all end up on ebay?

You will be able to test them with guild mates, if I remember correctly, but you will not be able to take them out on loan and go try to win a tournament with them. They are kind of like ghost cards.

I think the AH will ensure ebay is a minor presence in the game. People will probably only use those third party outlets when they are looking to "cash out." But I think what you are asking is whether or not the best cards will end up being expensive. And the answer is yes, but relatively when compared to only HEX as a source. The price of cards in HEX will be significantly less than MTGO, for example. This is due to the fact that packs are half cost of M:TG packs. Somebody cracking packs only has to spend half as much to find a chase rare than someone in MTGO does. That will directly impact the price.

Leingod
09-04-2013, 10:36 AM
Wouldn't the pvp Starter + 3 packs format of sealed basically be arena if you just did the whole random match thing instead of a full blown tournament? The cards would not be kept, you could enter with gold, and there would be no pvp rewards. Rewards could be gold and maybe some sort of pve booster or the like.

felmare
09-04-2013, 10:39 AM
Wouldn't the pvp Starter + 3 packs format of sealed basically be arena if you just did the whole random match thing instead of a full blown tournament? The cards would not be kept, you could enter with gold, and there would be no pvp rewards. Rewards could be gold and maybe some sort of pve booster or the like.

why do pvp but with pve rewards?

Miwa
09-04-2013, 10:56 AM
why do pvp but with pve rewards?
Because if the entry fee is gold, you shouldn't be able to get pvp rewards. Giving out pvp cards for anything but cash will eventually result in farmers and bots running it over.

felmare
09-04-2013, 11:30 AM
My post was also an assumption pvp currency would be in effect. The post said play pvp but require pve entry. My point was to say if your doing pvp require pvp currency and give pvp rewards.

nikareijii
09-04-2013, 12:19 PM
Sealed deck construction + Arena style matchmaking/pickup and play. If they don't do it I would be very surprised.


THIS please.

Leingod
09-04-2013, 12:25 PM
My post was also an assumption pvp currency would be in effect. The post said play pvp but require pve entry. My point was to say if your doing pvp require pvp currency and give pvp rewards.

I had in my post that the entry fee would be gold. The idea is just to have a quickie set of games for some casual pvp. I think using gold and pve rewards would entice some pve players to try it out and might draw more people into the paying part of the game. Pvp players likely would like to play it as well for some quick limited flavor pvp, but may not want to spend plat/cash on a starter or whatever your build base is. A big draw of arena is that it is free if you do decently at it along with the quick finish time.

Obviously the exact economics of it are up for debate.