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RElapse
08-25-2013, 09:55 PM
Silly question to the masses.

With the the advent of the alpha approaching ( way to slowly if you ask me), Do you think that CZE will release the OSX version along side the PC version of alpha?

I know they have said that there will be a OSX version of the final game but i cant recall a mention of a simultaneous release of alpha/beta. the logical side of me says they will, with coding the way it is now ect ect.

thoughts?

please keep the "stupid MAC owners" and "buy a PC" comments to a dull roar, Ive heard them all.....unless you have a real good one.

hex_colin
08-25-2013, 10:05 PM
Silly question to the masses.

With the the advent of the alpha approaching ( way to slowly if you ask me), Do you think that CZE will release the OSX version along side the PC version of alpha?

I know they have said that there will be a OSX version of the final game but i cant recall a mention of a simultaneous release of alpha/beta. the logical side of me says they will, with coding the way it is now ect ect.

thoughts?

please keep the "stupid MAC owners" and "buy a PC" comments to a dull roar, Ive heard them all.....unless you have a real good one.

I certainly hope so! I use my MacBook Pro Retina everywhere...

I did install Parallels and Windows 8 just in case though. Chance favors the prepared mind and all that... ;)

hamm101
08-25-2013, 10:18 PM
Easy fix would be to set up a virtual machine on your mac. its a great way to get around the restrictions for 'windows only'

Also, huge pet peve of mine: both mac's and windows machines are Personal Computers (pc's). The only difference is the OS, so seriously, saying 'pc' as generic for windows and 'mac' for apple os machines makes it seem like they are different, but truly, at the base layer, they are the same.

RElapse
08-25-2013, 10:34 PM
Easy fix would be to set up a virtual machine on your mac. its a great way to get around the restrictions for 'windows only'

Also, huge pet peve of mine: both mac's and windows machines are Personal Computers (pc's). The only difference is the OS, so seriously, saying 'pc' as generic for windows and 'mac' for apple os machines makes it seem like they are different, but truly, at the base layer, they are the same.

Historically speaking this is incorrect, and everyone who reads this knows what is meant, if you want to debate the inaccuracy of your comment we can start a new thread elsewhere, until then this is not the purpose of this post by any means. i simply wanted to know if the community saw a dual release in the future.

keldrin
08-25-2013, 10:44 PM
Well, I haven't heard that they where....
BUT, I would hope that if they where not, they would be giving a heads up before now.
I would think dangling the carrot of alpha in front of everyone, then at the last minute saying, except mac OS users, would not be received well by the people it effected. There are a lot of people using Macs these days, so it will impact a decent percentage of the users I would imagine. Plus, their statement of OSX support, brought more people into the kickstarter, since game support on Macs isn't strong compared to windows.

RElapse
08-25-2013, 11:01 PM
Well, I haven't heard that they where....
BUT, I would hope that if they where not, they would be giving a heads up before now.
I would think dangling the carrot of alpha in front of everyone, then at the last minute saying, except mac OS users, would not be received well by the people it effected. There are a lot of people using Macs these days, so it will impact a decent percentage of the users I would imagine. Plus, their statement of OSX support, brought more people into the kickstarter, since game support on Macs isn't strong compared to windows.

this is my thought too!!! thanks for your input

tautologico
08-25-2013, 11:11 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't count on it. It would be nice, of course, but there may be many reasons why it's not feasible to do so for them.

Madican
08-25-2013, 11:14 PM
The software of Mac and Windows is completely different. A better anology is Unix and Mac.

Kroan
08-26-2013, 12:25 AM
I think the game is build Unity. Which means an OSX version could be released at alpha. The question is whether CZE is prepared to handle all the technical issue's of OSX that will arise on top of the Windows machines.

FeelNFine
08-26-2013, 01:11 AM
Well this would be good to know, since Alpha is the biggest draw to slacker backer for me.

deejay
08-26-2013, 01:22 AM
Keen to know too - have the iMac prepped with a Windows 8 virtualisation just in case but any commentary on min spec would be awesome (and whether we will be able to play native too of course)

Xenavire
08-26-2013, 02:41 AM
I don't see why mac os users should be hung out to dry, so personally I think it will be a dual release. I also think I may remember one of the livestreams mentioning that only the tablet versions would be delayed.

If you really want to cover your bases, look into setting up bootcamp. It is very useful, and you get the best of both worlds, without being forced to buy a typical PC.

Also, I doubt Hex would ever require Windows 8, if you prefer 7, I would go with 7 instead. Windows 8 still has a fair few compatibility issues, which are slowly being fixed, and while I assume Hex would run fine, there is that chance it won't.

keldrin
08-26-2013, 03:39 AM
I read in another forum thread, talking about Tablet support, that at some point during a twitch video, Cory had said that Mac/PC support would come out with alpha, but tablet support would be further down the line.


Alpha/ beta will only be pc/mac (http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 check 29:50), IOS and Android support come launch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20tC_cGSsY check 21:20)

I did go to the video, and listened to the time around 29:50, but he wasn't talking about alpha release at that point, so I haven't confirmed with my own ears, those details.

ossuary
08-26-2013, 04:46 AM
Well the original plan for the kickstarter was to have beta access only, until we unlocked the alpha access. At that time, PC/Mac was planned to be ready for beta (and tablet support would come at launch). We haven't had official confirmation, but since they're only a few weeks apart, it's probably a pretty good chance that you'll see Mac support for the alpha as well. You hippie. :)

blakegrandon
08-26-2013, 04:59 AM
I don't see why mac os users should be hung out to dry

Because they're mac users? :-p

Too easy.

But really, at worst people can dual-boot windows...

A mac IS a personal computer, it doesn't matter if "historically" Apple tries to be edgy and different and claim they're not a personal computer, because it is what it is.

This isn't 1984, 2+2=4

Notice whenever people are talking about gaming they use the term PC Gamer or Console gamer?

That's because no one uses a mac to game... :-p

Okay, done taking all the easy jabs at mac users, but why would anyone pay twice as much for a mac as a pc?

Xenavire
08-26-2013, 05:07 AM
Because they're mac users? :-p

Too easy.

But really, at worst people can dual-boot windows...

A mac IS a personal computer, it doesn't matter if "historically" Apple tries to be edgy and different and claim they're not a personal computer, because it is what it is.

This isn't 1984, 2+2=4

Notice whenever people are talking about gaming they use the term PC Gamer or Console gamer?

That's because no one uses a mac to game... :-p

Okay, done taking all the easy jabs at mac users, but why would anyone pay twice as much for a mac as a pc?

The only reason I have ever heard is literally for artistic things (drawing programs/photoshop, etc.) I have no idea why it is meant to be better, but I have never heard anyone ever say they were buying a mac to play games.

blakegrandon
08-26-2013, 05:24 AM
The only reason I have ever heard is literally for artistic things (drawing programs/photoshop, etc.) I have no idea why it is meant to be better, but I have never heard anyone ever say they were buying a mac to play games.

The thing is running a virtual box is really easy now.

Anyone that is spending twice as much on a mac as a PC could get a much better PC, still get the "mac only" tools, save money, AND never have to go into an Apple store again!

Shadowelf
08-26-2013, 06:17 AM
I read in another forum thread, talking about Tablet support, that at some point during a twitch video, Cory had said that Mac/PC support would come out with alpha, but tablet support would be further down the line.



I did go to the video, and listened to the time around 29:50, but he wasn't talking about alpha release at that point, so I haven't confirmed with my own ears, those details.

Sorry my timer was a bit off check 29:15 http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 It says pc and mac day one....

Xenavire
08-26-2013, 06:27 AM
I do have to say, a macbook is horrible. There is no justification for it - if a single part breaks down you are looking at hundreds of dollars for a replacement, or buying a whole new one (which is too freaking much. They cost thousands - just get a Desktop and a half decent Windows laptop rather than a mocbook and save yourself some grief.)

Otherwise Apple PC's aren't that bad (the tablets and phones however are a complete waste.) I just hate the layout of the OS and the standard brick mouse.

Kroan
08-26-2013, 07:19 AM
There is no justification for it I would actually have quite some good reasons for buying a MacBook over any other laptop

keroko
08-26-2013, 07:20 AM
built the below just this week for ~2400 and ninjad gpu from existing machine (+400) = 2900 USD
MSI XPower Z87
One 3.5GHz Intel 4770K
Crucial CT480M500 - SSD, 480GB
Intel 525 Series Lincoln Crest SSDMCEAC240B301 mSATA 240GB
32GB 2666 xmp profiled GSkill ram
ATI Radeon HD 7970 3GB

a decent PC has cost 3000 dollars ish to build since the 80s. ive been obsessing with parts on and off; you guys prolly remember the days of 600 page magazines with 80% of it ads for pc parts and vendors.

so what can you get at the apple store for ~3k? I've never looked so I went to see.

mac pro they have up there now (its being replaced with the round trash can alien thing)

One 3.33GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon processor - highly stable - good cache, may OC CPU well? I have no idea
8GB (4X2GB) - no word on speed
1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive -...
ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB - ...
One 18x SuperDrive - ...? need optical drive why now?
Apple Magic Mouse - do they have two buttons now?
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) & User's Guide


http://youtu.be/SQl2FjaKCAQ

http://distilleryimage9.ak.instagram.com/ee36ca440b9511e3b44322000a1f92df_7.jpg

but the real problem is that there is a very limited range of software you can use when compared to a PC. You have a server platform chip in the apple because they know your going to end up virtualizing for software compatability.

I dont want to run an emulator on my main machine to get at software, games etc.

its improving for mac users - i guess there's 'some' games; and unity can compile out to a bunch of target platforms such as mac OS 11.whateveritscalled, android and such. its probably complicated and troublesome though or niggledy piggedely to implement outputs to multiple from a single source? they dont tell us about that stuff.

---


l...Also, I doubt Hex would ever require Windows 8, if you prefer 7, I would go with 7 instead. Windows 8 still has a fair few compatibility issues, which are slowly being fixed, and while I assume Hex would run fine, there is that chance it won't...

should be ok 7 and 8. I have encountered zero compatibility issues in reputable COTs applications, games or OS functions and drivers etc. under win8. it is much better than 7.

blakegrandon
08-26-2013, 07:26 AM
I would actually have quite some good reasons for buying a MacBook over any other laptop

Want to share any of those reasons?

Most of the arguments I've seen boil down to:

1. Software (Which you can use on a Windows PC by dual booting)

2. "Virus Protection" (Is a complete myth, Apple products are just as vulnerable if not more vulnerable to exploits, the hackers just tend not to bother with Apple users because of the small percentage using them, in the last decade I haven't gotten a single virus or malware on any of my Windows machines)

3. Personal Preference: That's cool I suppose, frankly I like Windows and it is extremely easy to use, I can build my own computers, and it plays pretty much everything.

I could buy a good windows laptop AND build a good windows desktop for the price of an Apple laptop or desktop.

Granted it's not all about price, but I have yet to find a situation that would warrant me wanting to switch to Apple.

Kroan
08-26-2013, 07:27 AM
Legally developing for the iOS platform:)

keroko
08-26-2013, 07:35 AM
I have the duo 11, but the 13 is much better. If I could nudge the CZE IT dept, I'd make them buy their art team each one of these.

the screen is a proper wacom digitizer and comes with a 100 dollar pen. couple that with photoshop, illustrator and whatever else they use to draw their stuff and you've got a mobile easel that can open up to be a laptop in the truest sense - with enough cpu, gpu, mem and storage to do damage.

prototype shadowrun decks soon... mobile computing's gonna get good.

~2400
4th gen Intel® Core™ i7-4650U (1.70GHz / 3.30GHz with Turbo Boost)
Windows 8 Pro 64-bit [$50.00]
No Fresh Start
Microsoft® Office 2013 trial version
13.3" Full HD TRILUMINOS for Mobile IPS touch display (1920 x 1080)
10 point Touch screen
Intel® HD Graphics 5000 w/ Intel® Wireless Display technology - this will run games surprisingly well
512GB (512GB x1) solid state drive (Save $50, reg. price $500.00) [$450.00]
8GB (8GB fixed onboard x1) LPDDR3-1600MHz
No wireless mobile broadband
No VGA display adapter
Color: Carbon Black


http://youtu.be/0ULlCi5HYZ0

blakegrandon
08-26-2013, 07:44 AM
Legally developing for the iOS platform:)

Well that would be one reason...

So the only reason to overpay for Apple products is so that you can develop for Apple products?

:-p

Mathaw
08-26-2013, 07:54 AM
If they don't ill be seeking a partial refund, as there's absolutely nothing in the info that states that its PC only.

Virtual machine is a valid workaround, albeit one that comes at the cost of a windows license.

Mathaw
08-26-2013, 07:56 AM
Well that would be one reason...

So the only reason to overpay for Apple products is so that you can develop for Apple products?

:-p

There's this crazy concept known as user experience; if it needs to be explained, this conversation is already over :)

Although maybe you also don't see the purpose in buying a Bentley when you can get as much horse power from a Nova? :p

Mathaw
08-26-2013, 08:00 AM
built the below just this week for ~2400 and ninjad gpu from existing machine (+400) = 2900 USD
MSI XPower Z87
One 3.5GHz Intel 4770K
Crucial CT480M500 - SSD, 480GB
Intel 525 Series Lincoln Crest SSDMCEAC240B301 mSATA 240GB
32GB 2666 xmp profiled GSkill ram
ATI Radeon HD 7970 3GB

a decent PC has cost 3000 dollars ish to build since the 80s. ive been obsessing with parts on and off; you guys prolly remember the days of 600 page magazines with 80% of it ads for pc parts and vendors.

so what can you get at the apple store for ~3k? I've never looked so I went to see.

mac pro they have up there now (its being replaced with the round trash can alien thing)

One 3.33GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon processor - highly stable - good cache, may OC CPU well? I have no idea
8GB (4X2GB) - no word on speed
1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive -...
ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB - ...
One 18x SuperDrive - ...? need optical drive why now?
Apple Magic Mouse - do they have two buttons now?
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) & User's Guide


http://youtu.be/SQl2FjaKCAQ

http://distilleryimage9.ak.instagram.com/ee36ca440b9511e3b44322000a1f92df_7.jpg

but the real problem is that there is a very limited range of software you can use when compared to a PC. You have a server platform chip in the apple because they know your going to end up virtualizing for software compatability.

I dont want to run an emulator on my main machine to get at software, games etc.

its improving for mac users - i guess there's 'some' games; and unity can compile out to a bunch of target platforms such as mac OS 11.whateveritscalled, android and such. its probably complicated and troublesome though or niggledy piggedely to implement outputs to multiple from a single source? they dont tell us about that stuff.

---



should be ok 7 and 8. I have encountered zero compatibility issues in reputable COTs applications, games or OS functions and drivers etc. under win8. it is much better than 7.

Dude you're living in the past. I haven't used windows in... Maybe 8 years? I've played some MTGO on a friends machine, I guess that counts.

'Some games'? I'm guessing you've never heard of steam?

Anyway this is a dumb conversation that can continue on some platform fanboy website. Who gives a rats ass what each other uses.

Regardless Hex is advertised as dual platform. If it isn't dual platform at alpha they should have mentioned it LONG ago.

Mathaw
08-26-2013, 08:03 AM
The only reason I have ever heard is literally for artistic things (drawing programs/photoshop, etc.) I have no idea why it is meant to be better, but I have never heard anyone ever say they were buying a mac to play games.

Because the OS is significantly better; and the cost difference is hugely exaggerated. Build me an iMac for less than an iMac and we can talk.

blakegrandon
08-26-2013, 08:04 AM
There's this crazy concept known as user experience; if it needs to be explained, this conversation is already over :)

Although maybe you also don't see the purpose in buying a Bentley when you can get as much horse power from a Nova? :p

The car analogy doesn't work because it's more akin to paying the Bentley's price for a Nova, when the Bentley is really half price :-p

If you were paying for "quality" then you'd be custom building a PC, not overpaying for an Apple.

User experience? Windows provides a great user experience, Apple is just idiot proof....

Maybe you like overpaying for stuff, I for one prefer to pay fair market value for my electronics instead of paying for a "name" that marks up their product an insane amount.

This all of course ignores the fact that the hardware is all made in the same factories in China and that the software experience tends to converge and be very similar.

Let me guess, you use an Iphone because you think it's better than Android? :-p


Because the OS is significantly better; and the cost difference is hugely exaggerated. Build me an iMac for less than an iMac and we can talk.

Wot. You can build a PC and buy a laptop for the same price of an iMac.

Cost difference isn't hugely exaggerated unless you're buying your Apple products off of the back of a truck...

keroko
08-26-2013, 08:06 AM
meh, suffer then with the choice of overbearing aesthetics and sale of lifestyle, coupled with poor enterprise mgmt and zero server platform.

blakegrandon
08-26-2013, 08:21 AM
Anyway this is a dumb conversation that can continue on some platform fanboy website. Who gives a rats ass what each other uses.


Usually it's the pretentious Apple users I encounter that care about what platform I'm using and that I "need" to switch to iOS and get an Iphone. I almost never try to convince Apple users to switch to Windows, what ends up happening is I ask why they use Apple and they get super defensive.

I'm quite happy with my Windows PC and my Android Cell phones, oh and the money I save not buying based on name and instead based on what the product can do for me.

All of that said, where do they ADVERTISE that it's for Windows and iOS?

Main page? Nope
Store? Nope

The only reference I find on their kickstarter and on their website is:

1.5M - Tablet support for both Android and iOS. Unlocking this stretch goal allows us to hire a team to bring HEX to tablets.

Just playing devils advocate because while I am pretty sure they ARE going to release for iOS, stating they "advertised" hex as dual platform is false.

I have never seen any hex advertisements touting it's ability to play on iOS.

Alpha is alpha, that means they can do whatever they want during alpha, if they advertised it as having iOS support at launch and then renegged on it I would say you'd have a real case of being pissed off.

I have a feeling that even with as far along as they are people will be disappointed with Alpha...

Even if the game is closer to Beta stage, most games have really rocky betas and launches and people expect perfection.

Shadowelf
08-26-2013, 08:32 AM
All of that said, where do they ADVERTISE that it's for Windows and iOS?
Main page? Nope
Store? Nope
The only reference I find on their kickstarter and on their website is:


Well that's not entirely true; Cory advertised it whenever he was given the chance;

E3 interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20tC_cGSsY check 21:20
Angry Joe interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUn3gOclMc check 38:30
Week in Geek intrerview http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 check 29:15

and probably in more places than the time i have to search about it

blakegrandon
08-26-2013, 08:42 AM
Well that's not entirely true; Cory advertised it whenever he was given the chance;

E3 interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20tC_cGSsY check 21:20
Angry Joe interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUn3gOclMc check 38:30
Week in Geek intrerview http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 check 29:15

and probably in more places than the time i have to search about it

I guess it couldn't hurt for them to clarify on their website, I don't really consider youtube or twitchtv as a source of information, but maybe I'm old school and prefer written communication instead of videos.

Can't watch those videos because of work but if they say there is going to be Hex for iOS at alpha/beta then it's pretty much case closed.

I find it a little bizarre that people would want partial refunds if it's not available at "alpha". That would be like people demanding partial refunds if the servers go down for maintenance and they can only play part of the Alpha. If I was Cryptozoic I would give you your partial refund of whatever you would have paid per hour of entertainment in the grand scheme of things. Which would probably end up being what, $0.15 a day?

ramseytheory
08-26-2013, 08:49 AM
Windows provides a great user experience

This was the point where I stopped listening. I use Linux as my primary operating system and dual-boot to Windows for gaming and Netflix, and just off the top of my head:

- In Windows, you need to make sure you have working firewall, anti-virus, and anti-malware software set up with regular CPU-eating scans. If you want to be really safe, you need extra anti-virus and anti-malware software since nothing available right now is perfect.

- In Windows, half the system updates require reboots. If you're doing something full-screen while the dialog box pops up, the system will reboot itself without asking (this has burned me multiple times).

- In Windows, every little thing I want to change either requires editing the registry or can't be changed on the Home edition.

- In Windows, you have to keep all your applications updated separately. If you want to install an application, you need to hunt down the website and go through the installation process manually. And heaven help you if you don't have the right codecs/run-time libraries/DirectX installation. (In Linux, basically every piece of software is handled the way Steam games are in Windows.)

Shadowelf
08-26-2013, 08:52 AM
Can't watch those videos because of work but if they say there is going to be Hex for iOS at alpha/beta then it's pretty much case closed.


They said pc/mac day one (http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 check 29:15) then later on IOS/Android tablets (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20tC_cGSsY check 21:20). They never said that tablet support will be available at alpha/beta

Xenavire
08-26-2013, 09:02 AM
Ramseytheory, I can see your points on a few of them, but which windows do you get reboots without asking first? I have never experienced that in all my years using windows (although I skipped a few OS's. Vista especially.)

Also, never had issues with modifying things. I don't tend to tinker with my registry that often though, no need to.

And Linux has it's fair share if issues (or did when I last tried it.) I do know compatibility is a huge problem.

Madican
08-26-2013, 09:49 AM
I'm perfectly happy to let people choose which OS they want to use but if I see someone claiming that Macs are not overpriced compared to PC's then I'm going to shatter that delusion.

felmare
08-26-2013, 11:31 AM
im using my mishmash of a "windows" machine i built from trash lol and i will still be able to play hex. :D

ramseytheory
08-26-2013, 12:04 PM
Ramseytheory, I can see your points on a few of them, but which windows do you get reboots without asking first? I have never experienced that in all my years using windows (although I skipped a few OS's. Vista especially.)

Also, never had issues with modifying things. I don't tend to tinker with my registry that often though, no need to.

And Linux has it's fair share if issues (or did when I last tried it.) I do know compatibility is a huge problem.

The reboot thing was in Windows 7 Home Edition - it happened several times until I disabled automatic updates altogether. (Both on Windows itself and on AVG...)

I think modern Linux does have a very good user experience if either the installation is being done by an expert or the user gets lucky. There are still serious compatibility problems out there, unfortunately, but they're generally fixable and I'm good enough at fixing them to consider the first few days of pain worth it. After that it's fine - my grandfather is using it without any problems (after my father got tired of cleaning the malware off his Windows installation).

Deathfog
08-26-2013, 12:24 PM
Apple itself suggests users bootcamp into Windows/windows emulator to play modern games as support has dwindled. On the upside I'm about 99% sure they are going to support iOS at least for the non-Android tablet users.

blakegrandon
08-26-2013, 03:16 PM
In Windows, you need to make sure you have working firewall, anti-virus, and anti-malware software set up with regular CPU-eating scans. If you want to be really safe, you need extra anti-virus and anti-malware software since nothing available right now is perfect.

You should be using a working firewall, anti-virus, and anti-malware on any system. To say that you only need to worry about those things on Windows is a flat out lie, Linux AND iOS are both just AS vulnerable as windows.

Windows is fine when it comes to user experience, because it's all based on how competent the user is and what you use it for.

Every OS is extremely vulnerable because of the way they're built, granted hackers are more likely to go after windows users, but smart hackers will also target iOS and Linux users because they're less likely to protect their stuff.

Best wishes to anyone paying twice as much for iOS that believes their stuff is "safer", it's like buying a gun and then thinking it makes you immune to criminals, but then not going through any training.

Niedar
08-26-2013, 03:25 PM
I use both Linux and Windows and I don't find Linux to be a better environment for the common user at all unless all they will be doing is using a web browser. Now this is not the case if you are using it as a development environment which is why I use both. This might change in the future and there has been a lot of recent progress but I simply do not agree it has reached that point yet.


As for the OP question, as others have said they stated that it will be and the fact that the game is being developed using the unity engine which is probably the best cross platform gaming engine to use that makes it as painless as possible should make that statement likely to be true.

RElapse
08-26-2013, 06:39 PM
well this turned out exactly how i didn't want it to....

i think we should delete it!!

ossuary
08-26-2013, 07:28 PM
Every OS has merits, and shortcomings. 90% of the users of that OS don't understand what they are. 98% of all users are far less safe than they assume they are.

There, we can stop talking about this now. :)

tautologico
08-26-2013, 10:20 PM
I don't like to use Windows for "real" work, I just really prefer to work in a Unix environment. Linux is fine but at the same time it doesn't feel quite right on the User Interface side (I've been using Linux since the kernel 1.x series, in this time I've used most of the well-known distros and many little-known ones). Windows UI tends to be a bit better for "general" use but, as I said, I don't like it for work.

OS X is a perfect combination for my tastes, a great User Interface over a solid Unix foundation. It's not a coincidence that me and most of my software developer friends use Macs. I don't care if anyone in particular prefers Windows, these days you can do pretty much everything you want in any OS. But I prefer OS X by a large margin.

Yeah, Macs are overpriced in relation to similar PCs, but I spend most of my waking life on a computer and I gladly pay to have a machine that works just as I want it to. It saves me a big amount of small annoyances I'd have with Windows and Linux (less so than Windows, but still), and this to me is more than worth the price.

One thing that I didn't see mentioned in this thread is that the Mac hardware is rock solid. All my macs since my first one still work fine, even after heavy use. The unibody laptops are solid and feel solid, while many PC laptops feel flimsy, even expensive ones. I've built a lot of PCs over the years but in my experience the reliability of the Macs is the best among all the (many) machines I've had and used along the years. Your mileage my vary, of course.

I don't consider myself an Apple fanboy and although I know there are some zealots I think it's offensive to assume that everyone that uses a Mac is a fanboy or is somehow deluded. Deciding to pay more for a product that I consider to be of higher quality is an economic decision like any other, and in my case I feel it's worth it.

Xenavire
08-27-2013, 03:22 AM
Tautologico, I actually agree that Mac laptops tend to survive longer, but there are some pitfalls (which I am sure you are aware of.)

First off, the price of replacement parts is ridiculous. I have 2 friends, one with a macbook, one with a windows laptop. Both needed new ram at one point - the mac ram at the time was at least double the price of the standard laptop. (This is purely apples fault, no parts should cost that much.)

The other is OS issues on older machines. If you keep trying to upgrade you OS over time, the mac tends to end up overworked and less compatible with things over time. My friend had endless problems with this, and ended up doing a dual boot and using windows almost exclusively.