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BigDog
08-26-2013, 12:25 PM
Dear CZE,

When you start the alpha, could you please add some warnings(maybe even multiples) about what alpha is(bug testing, not final, stability monitoring, etc.) so that when people start playing the alpha and something breaks, the playerbase doesn't become a whirlwind of ranting and sobbing.

Or more accurately, when they DO become an unruly mob with unreasonable expectations of a product in the alpha development stage, it can be pointed out that they were informed of the goals and limitations of alpha.

Thanks!

MoikPEI
08-26-2013, 12:28 PM
Every match starts with an "Alpha's Blessing" card in play.
Card is a 0 cost artifact that can be voided for 0 as a quick action by any player.
Card text simply contains the Alpha Reminder.

Vengus
08-26-2013, 12:30 PM
Dear CZE,

When you start the alpha, could you please add some warnings(maybe even multiples) about what alpha is(bug testing, not final, stability monitoring, etc.) so that when people start playing the alpha and something breaks, the playerbase doesn't become a whirlwind of ranting and sobbing.

Or more accurately, when they DO become an unruly mob with unreasonable expectations of a product in the alpha development stage, it can be pointed out that they were informed of the goals and limitations of alpha.

Thanks!
No matter how many warnings are given there will always be players complaining. Then once the alpha is over people will complain about that the fact that their accounts were wiped. I guess all we can do is hope that the mods keep things quiet.

Zomnivore
08-26-2013, 12:54 PM
Companies abuse the moniker alpha/beta for pre-released content at full pricing, its one of those things that justify the undue criticism gamers give alphas.

If you're paying full price for an unfinished product and then they don't polish it much more than above beta state, well... who's to blame for gamers being angry and highly critical of ALPHA content when beta content becomes that much more liable to be the launch state of the game.

Deathfog
08-26-2013, 01:02 PM
Alpha is something that was earned by the kickstarter going over the needed amounts to get the game done. They didn't have to offer access to even people who paid up several hundreds of dollars. Luckily the only people in Alpha, well there could be a few press/youtube/twitch people, are those who have already paid for significant access to the game.

Tathel
08-26-2013, 01:02 PM
Companies abuse the moniker alpha/beta for pre-released content at full pricing, its one of those things that justify the undue criticism gamers give alphas.

If you're paying full price for an unfinished product and then they don't polish it much more than above beta state, well... who's to blame for gamers being angry and highly critical of ALPHA content when beta content becomes that much more liable to be the launch state of the game.

Good thing the alpha is not the purchased content... they are running select parts. I believe everyone is getting all cards? (can't recall source on that) and there is going to be a wipe post alpha before moving into beta.

The beta does seem more 'pre-release' then beta, but the alpha is bug / stress testing so i think any sort of complaint about quality would be unwarranted unless it's something that clearly isn't correctable by the beta.

That being said you need to have been involved in the kickstarter to use alpha, so maybe a one time warning to notify people, but a repeated warning likely won't be effective, it's not like someone who has no investment is doing the testing and will be confused

Zomnivore
08-26-2013, 01:11 PM
That being said you need to have been involved in the kickstarter to use alpha, so maybe a one time warning to notify people, but a repeated warning likely won't be effective, it's not like someone who has no investment is doing the testing and will be confused

You seem to think that I didn't back this project.

I did.

I'm saying that all the 'undue' criticism gamers give alpha/betas, is well merited, the OP seemed to be making a general statement about alphas and people's reactions to them.

I made a general defense of why gamers aren't whining cry babies without merit.

BigDog
08-26-2013, 02:26 PM
You seem to think that I didn't back this project.

I did.

I'm saying that all the 'undue' criticism gamers give alpha/betas, is well merited, the OP seemed to be making a general statement about alphas and people's reactions to them.

I made a general defense of why gamers aren't whining cry babies without merit.

First of all, the statement "ALL the 'undue' criticism games give alpha/beta is well merited" is probably a bit of an exaggeration. I have a concern that a significant portion of the kickstarter backers involved in the alpha will expect it to be closer to "open betas" of other games that they have played, which, as was previously stated, are much closer to the finished production version of the game. Usually, being involved in an alpha is something closer to actual work, trying to break the system and find bugs, basically spending less time enjoying using the product and more time trying to use it in ways the code is unprepared for and breaks.

Given that bad publicity is a very real risk at the beginning of an online community-based game, i simply would like to make sure that the differences between alpha, beta, release are clearly communicated to do the utmost to prevent public community responses based on a misconception of what is supposed to being delivered and when.

Looked at from a different angle, during alpha, problems that occur are a good thing because then the problem can be identified and fixed prior to beta/release. So, calm/rational feedback is very important during that phase of development. However, public angry feedback is not productive at best and counterproductive at worst since a prospective new player/customer might read the one angry/unhappy feedback comment posted about a game in alpha and make a decision to not give the game a try.

Zomnivore
08-26-2013, 03:40 PM
I don't think we disagree.

I'm just saying that typecasting gamers as whiners without merit is unfair and oblivious to the negative affect that the industry has also had on what would normally be a positive experience for all involved.

Also this games alpha is little more than a name grab and a bit of 'we were here first' sort of kickstarter fun.

***

I think its completely illogical to expect gamers who come in and pay money for something that isn't in a launch state, on a site for funding projects... is in fact at the state of being funded to continue production, would then after having learned all that also complain without due respect to that fact, and still have a valid voice which people really listen to.

I don't think its a realistic fear.

I understand if you want to have a show of support for the game, but don't do it at the expense of gamers.

This game is happening because of us. Have some pride.

keldrin
08-26-2013, 11:15 PM
I don't think we disagree.

I'm just saying that typecasting gamers as whiners without merit is unfair and oblivious to the negative affect that the industry has also had on what would normally be a positive experience for all involved.

Also this games alpha is little more than a name grab and a bit of 'we were here first' sort of kickstarter fun.

***

I think its completely illogical to expect gamers who come in and pay money for something that isn't in a launch state, on a site for funding projects... is in fact at the state of being funded to continue production, would then after having learned all that also complain without due respect to that fact, and still have a valid voice which people really listen to.

I don't think its a realistic fear.

I understand if you want to have a show of support for the game, but don't do it at the expense of gamers.

This game is happening because of us. Have some pride.
Name grab. Elite pre beta. You can call it what you will
They called it alpha. And in alpha, a few bugs should be expected.
Unlike real alpha, the game should be playable.
Even in beta, we make run into some glitches. But I expect most bugs/glitches will be taken care before our alpha. And the vast majority of remaining bugs and glitches taken care of in the kickstarter alpha.
Greatest chance of bugs/glitches in beta, is when they implement new content, like the PVE stuff.

Mindless
08-27-2013, 03:15 AM
I fear the reaction of wipe more than bugs. I mean even if I know that there is going to be a wipe it's something I am hardly on board with as this is after all a collection game. A wipe of statistics is one thing but when it heavily impairs gameplay it will without a doubt suck (for some it might spark a way, a hunt for certain things but whatevs). As pve isn't going to be that massive until launch this aspect will most likely not suffer that much but the pvp part where the only way is to buy packs for real money its like giving someone a bike to ride and then take all but a wheel when the person have learned to use it and ask for money for a chance at the rest. Might be a bad example :/

In my opinion there should not be access to all cards and what not during alpha, after all we are not their testers, we are their customers. If they want us in on early development its their choice but it doesn't change the fact that we are customers first and testers after.

The thing with having an ingame warning is not that bad as there are prob alot of people not here on the forums.

Zomnivore
08-27-2013, 07:44 AM
I don't think ppl get mad sounds like premade decks and we're not getting our stuff till its 'legit' beta or w/e

blakegrandon
08-27-2013, 07:50 AM
I fear the reaction of wipe more than bugs. I mean even if I know that there is going to be a wipe it's something I am hardly on board with as this is after all a collection game.

And thus it already begins.... There is always a wipe between alpha and "release"

Hex's alpha will be closer to a beta, while beta will be closer to a early launch for backers.

I hope there is huge text at the beginning of the game that states there will be a wipe after alpha and that there will be bugs.

Expecting bug free software even at launch is ludicrous and unrealistic given the complexity of software and the limitations of OS and hardware being used.

Even if the game comes out perfectly there will be whiners, there will be entitled people that feel the game isn't up to "their" standards, and there will be people demanding a refund.

I don't envy Cryptozoic at all, game developing is like beating your head against a brick wall when dealing with certain sectors of the gaming "community"

Xenavire
08-27-2013, 08:12 AM
I fear the reaction of wipe more than bugs. I mean even if I know that there is going to be a wipe it's something I am hardly on board with as this is after all a collection game. A wipe of statistics is one thing but when it heavily impairs gameplay it will without a doubt suck (for some it might spark a way, a hunt for certain things but whatevs). As pve isn't going to be that massive until launch this aspect will most likely not suffer that much but the pvp part where the only way is to buy packs for real money its like giving someone a bike to ride and then take all but a wheel when the person have learned to use it and ask for money for a chance at the rest. Might be a bad example :/

In my opinion there should not be access to all cards and what not during alpha, after all we are not their testers, we are their customers. If they want us in on early development its their choice but it doesn't change the fact that we are customers first and testers after.

The thing with having an ingame warning is not that bad as there are prob alot of people not here on the forums.

The alpha is for name reserving first, bug testing second. There is no interest in marketing to customers or getting their money - that is what the full release is for. If you are under some delusion that Alpha is meant to mirror the release-ready version of the game, you should just reserve your name and leave until late in the Beta.

There will be wipes, there NEED to be wipes. They will be changing content and fixing bugs, giving us the opportunity to test their shop features and more. Everything in Alpha will be free, unlike in late Beta.

CZE are doing their best to iron out all the kinks before Alpha, but there will be bugs and many, many things to be tested.

The problem lies in the hands of the gamers. It is their responsibility to be informed enough to know what an Alpha is. The same is true for Beta and full release. If they are not satisfied with what an Alpha would offer, they should not take part, pure and simple.

It is not the responsibility of the company to warn gamers, nor is it their responsibility to ensure that the Alpha is smooth and flawless - that is the point of the Alpha, it is the point in time where they find and eliminate those bugs.

Put simply, players expect too much and it is out of the companies hands. The players can get shitty and pack a sad, but losing a few people too stupid or immature to deal with an Alpha is no loss for the company, as the finished product will speak for itself.

Mahes
08-27-2013, 08:31 AM
They are giving us 4 of every card and unlimited plat to test features with. Of course they are going to wipe the accounts. I will just immediately /ignore people who complain about a wipe at that stage. The advantages we get from playing in alpha are huge.

1. Names
2. Testing of every combo possible with the first set without having to collect a set.
3. Learning of the game mechanics and being able to adjust to the rules before it really counts.

I think I can deal with some bugs and a wipe for those advantages. If you cannot handle the bugs and wipes then do not play in the alpha. It seems pretty simple to me.

Grumph
08-27-2013, 08:50 AM
Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, Open Beta. These terms have lost most of their meaning in recent years. The game has been in Alpha(internal testing by developers) for quite awhile now. When we start playing it will actually be a beta(testing done by potential users), the mixing up and redefining of these terms is a major pet peeve of mine.

Zomnivore
08-27-2013, 08:56 AM
And thus it already begins.... There is always a wipe between alpha and "release"


Is this a troll?

Are you honestly this pessimistic about everything? One person raises a concern about a different aspect of pre-launch and you act like the sky is falling?

Dude, people are going to react in a multitude of ways, its how people are. What kind of stimulants are you on that you're this hopped up and anxious about people's judgements of the game?

All criticism aside ya, some people can be idiots and informing your fellow gamers is good and something people should do to make gaming a real community and not some collection of consumers.

The people who'll be most affected by negative criticism are already well aware of what they should be doing to curb undue criticism's negative affect on the community.

There's literally no way they're going to just let dunces ruin this product's commercial success.

Ebynfel
08-27-2013, 09:44 AM
Wasn't it Cory who said we wouldnt get a wipe after we have spent any money or received any rewards due from Kickstarter? I think, and I believe many agree, that this is completely acceptable. During Alpha, we will not have all of our sweet KS rewards. We will get thme sometime in Beta after a wipe, before we're offered to spend money i nthe form of plat/cards. Sounds good to me. Check out the game, test the features, do what I can to break it, have way more knowledge than the non backer when the game goes into a state where he can play. I'm cool. Bring on the bugs and the wipes, and when I start drafting for real, I'll be ready.

Mindless
08-27-2013, 09:52 AM
Well I don't want to quote everyone in between this post and my previous.

First off. They dont HAVE to give us 4 of every card and what not. WE do not HAVE to test their system.

I as a customer I listen to cory and believed in his words: When we give something to the player we will never take it away. In my eyes a wipe is taking things away from us. If they however give us the premade decks then it feels more like we get to go to gencon and test and not spoil and premake the sets of cards we want (even if we all sit on those hex cards sites and dream). The wipe will still take things away from us but it will take less from us. I'm also excited because I will have all the cards and be able to play the game but is it worth a wipe? It's a battle inside of me and if I don't want to play I will not, its all on me and no reason to be angry or whatever as what I decide only affects me. I have the right to express myself and this is what I think.

@ blakegrandon: what begins? You speak more of bugs and what not but I never feared the bugs at all :S
@ Grumph: Yes this seems to be the case nowdays. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Alpha according to wiki it seems like we more have beta than alpha release anyway.
@ Mahes: Ofc there will be a wipe if they really give us all the possibilities but if they don't then there might not be a need for a wipe. For me your 1. is valid enough to play alpha and ofc playing the game at all. Learning all and everything is something I want to do but also at my speed and my collection, not something I have to chase later and reget not yet having.

Anyway I didn't mean to neglect the hard work and whatever decisions cryptozoic do, give them a beer and a hug, nor did I intend to go this off topic in this thread.

Shadowelf
08-27-2013, 09:54 AM
I can't see why somebody should be whining about it since we all getting an advance warning that all the stuff acquired at Alpha will be wiped ?

Originally Posted by WBrinkman from Reddit on May 29th
None of this is finalized, so what we do may change. We may do a short free beta to stress test, make sure the client is good to go. Then we'll do a monetized beta just like you've seen most online games do out there. Once that hits, there will be no wipes. Of course, if cards were created by accident, that's a bug and we'd rectify that. But aside from that, the cards you earn at that point forward are yours. We wouldn't want to wipe away any awesome legendary cards or any of the experience you've earned on your individual cards. That's no fun for anyone.

Xenavire
08-27-2013, 11:17 AM
Mindless, we are being loaned cards, not given. Simple as that.

We are not buying it. We are not earning it. We are being lent a full playset for the express purpose of testing, the exact same way PTR in WoW works. I suggest you get over your hangups.

Mindless
08-27-2013, 11:42 AM
Mindless, we are being loaned cards, not given. Simple as that.

We are not buying it. We are not earning it. We are being lent a full playset for the express purpose of testing, the exact same way PTR in WoW works. I suggest you get over your hangups.

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion? and just because it differs from yours its a hangups? Aw well. Everyone thinks whatever, however they want. I understand the people getting excited about the alpha as I kinda am one in a sort of way anyway. Lending is one thing but this is technically not a lending as we did pay for it. In that case its renting. This is a priviliged test for paying people. Anyways :s gosh how people got hangup on just my opinion :/

4gn0st1x
08-27-2013, 12:22 PM
So I'm not allowed to have an opinion? and just because it differs from yours its a hangups? Aw well. Everyone thinks whatever, however they want. I understand the people getting excited about the alpha as I kinda am one in a sort of way anyway. Lending is one thing but this is technically not a lending as we did pay for it. In that case its renting. This is a priviliged test for paying people. Anyways :s gosh how people got hangup on just my opinion :/

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. It's just an incorrect opinion to have in regards to what an alpha phase is in a video game's development life cycle. It is there for testing and there are a myriad of bugs that cannot be effectively be found without opening it up to thousands or millions of users.

You should not walk into an alpha or even a beta with expectations of playing the game from purely a customer's viewpoint or you will generally be disappointed.

Xenavire
08-27-2013, 01:39 PM
So I'm not allowed to have an opinion? and just because it differs from yours its a hangups? Aw well. Everyone thinks whatever, however they want. I understand the people getting excited about the alpha as I kinda am one in a sort of way anyway. Lending is one thing but this is technically not a lending as we did pay for it. In that case its renting. This is a priviliged test for paying people. Anyways :s gosh how people got hangup on just my opinion :/

Actually, it IS lending, because we did not in any way, shape, or form, pay for those cards. We got Beta access, and Alpha access later as a perk. Beta will be what you are looking for, while Alpha is simply lending cards.

Everything you actually put money down for you will get and will not be wiped. But Alpha was not part of that deal, and frankly, even if you include it, you are given 'the right to reserve account, guild, character and keep names." The 4x cards are a bonus that is not at all mentioned anywhere where you would 'purchase' alpha. So they are not providing a product during alpha.

The hangup is simply your interpretation of what you are getting, and like I suggest before, you would be much less concerned with these things if you got over it.

You did not pay for the privilege to play with 4x of every card, so enjoy your borrowed cards or simply wait until the shop works and is taking real money.

Mindless
08-27-2013, 02:50 PM
Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. It's just an incorrect opinion to have in regards to what an alpha phase is in a video game's development life cycle. It is there for testing and there are a myriad of bugs that cannot be effectively be found without opening it up to thousands or millions of users.

You should not walk into an alpha or even a beta with expectations of playing the game from purely a customer's viewpoint or you will generally be disappointed.

I have never said what an alpha should or not should have in this thread -_-. Also what is incorrect with my opinion? I simply stated my opinion and what I think/want from this alpha (not anyone else or cryptozoic themselves). I've said nothing about numbers, tests and the customer could be told what the alpha is and be okay with it and not be disappointed. But when on the topic: Cryptozoic decides what they want to do in their alpha (not some "outside" definition) and according to many people who think that all cards should be in the alpha they might not even considered that all cards may or may not exist/work yet and don't have to in order to fullfill the alpha requirement.


Actually, it IS lending, because we did not in any way, shape, or form, pay for those cards. We got Beta access, and Alpha access later as a perk. Beta will be what you are looking for, while Alpha is simply lending cards.

Everything you actually put money down for you will get and will not be wiped. But Alpha was not part of that deal, and frankly, even if you include it, you are given 'the right to reserve account, guild, character and keep names." The 4x cards are a bonus that is not at all mentioned anywhere where you would 'purchase' alpha. So they are not providing a product during alpha.

The hangup is simply your interpretation of what you are getting, and like I suggest before, you would be much less concerned with these things if you got over it.

You did not pay for the privilege to play with 4x of every card, so enjoy your borrowed cards or simply wait until the shop works and is taking real money.

If you think that the alpha or any content within it is not a product then I don't know where to begin. Even if its a test on their side we have paid to get into the alpha. Its a perk because people paid in collective for it at the 1.8 M threshold and that don't make it free. Actually it became a part of the deal even if it wasn't in the begining. Also you have to pay in order to be able to play in alpha to begin with (either kickstarter or slacker backer) so yes we did pay for it and everything within it in every way (our money motivated them to do this, sounds harsh and I'm sure they were equal motivated by the amount of support regardless of amount of money). I understand your point of view and feels it pointless to stretch furthur as words are nothing but words and because this is a techniality without significant connection to the main topic so okay lets call it borrow even if I've actually paid for it.

Also what are you suggesting that I am getting? What do you think I'm suggesting that I'm getting? I have heard that you get 4 of all cards (is it 100 % confirmed? and by that I mean something printed and linkable and not comments or rumors) but I feel/think that this might ruin the game a bit for me. ME. Not anyone else. Anything else you think I've said or rather written is in your head. Nothing as of what alpha is, only what I hope this alpha is for me. I accept whatever the outcome is, I just wanted to share a nonhostile friendly comment because there might be other who feels the same way I do about this and about wipes but pardon me apperantly. There is a solution more fitting to me than getting all cards and loads of platinum (and within alpha parameters as well) and that is to have premade decks (especially if these are the starter decks). Just because it is a alpha/test doesn't mean that they have too release all cards, test all fetaures, how they decide to do is their deciscion.

Also it is my problem/opinion and yes it is something I might need to "get over" but that is up to me to decide and not you ;). Regardless of that outcome I still have a right to express my opinion and how I felt they should have handeled things.

I feel sorry for the OP that this thread became personal for me and off topic. Sorry for that. I will not comment furthur in this thread as this discussion seems pointless to carry on here although I'm always open for friendly or heated discussions in general and if anyone feels it very important to pound what alpha is (regardless the fact that I know and regardless that alpha is not a consistent term and please bring reason/sources to your argument, read Wikipedia as an example) and what not feel free to send me a PM or whatever.

Xenavire
08-27-2013, 03:44 PM
I am not going to argue here, just point out the fact. They never intended to give us Alpha access, and stated as such multiple times early in the kickstarter, but people kept asking repeatedly. So they gave it to us as a perk, and initially in the form of name reservations and a small sneak peek.

As for the 4x cards thing, from memory it was mentioned during the dragon lord backer dinner at Gencon and passed on by multiple members. So it is not officially announced, but it has come from the mouth of the company, so it can more or less be taken as fact.

So, you payed to reserve your name only. You are being GIFTED with extra, that was never once mentioned publicly (to my knowledge.) So no, you did NOT pay for it. End of story.

Those are simply the facts. Sorry if I implied you were unduly upset, I may have gotten a little upset and spoke rashly, but we keep getting given things simply on good faith and as thankyous - you should not assume that everything we have access to is tied to money.

Zomnivore
08-27-2013, 09:52 PM
This entire thread's been a weird case study, on display : Social dysfunction and the nuanced character flaws of gamers.

Bravo.

I for one think seeing several distinct neurosis interact is marvelous and hopefully very informative. Personally I'm very proud of my own display, I think it shows a certain arrogance and conceit.

The entire way this thread has unraveled is truly an experience worth lauding. I love (especially) that this is a simple issue that will solve itself and we've taken it on as it were our mantle as though we have some real effect on the outcomes, truly a display worth noting.

Mathaw
08-28-2013, 03:37 AM
In my opinion there should not be access to all cards and what not during alpha, after all we are not their testers

:confused:If you're participating in the Alpha that's exactly what you are. The point is to stresstest the game. It's a testing phase for us to test things. We will be testers.

Mathaw
08-28-2013, 03:38 AM
This entire thread's been a weird case study, on display : Social dysfunction and the nuanced character flaws of gamers.

Bravo.

I for one think seeing several distinct neurosis interact is marvelous and hopefully very informative. Personally I'm very proud of my own display, I think it shows a certain arrogance and conceit.

The entire way this thread has unraveled is truly an experience worth lauding. I love (especially) that this is a simple issue that will solve itself and we've taken it on as it were our mantle as though we have some real effect on the outcomes, truly a display worth noting.

:)

Mindless
08-28-2013, 05:17 AM
:confused:If you're participating in the Alpha that's exactly what you are. The point is to stresstest the game. It's a testing phase for us to test things. We will be testers.

We will always be their testers as there will always be patches and hotfixes. Ops I was supposed to stay out of this thread -_-

Mathaw
08-28-2013, 07:07 AM
We will always be their testers as there will always be patches and hotfixes. Ops I was supposed to stay out of this thread -_-

Actually no, we will be their users. And at that point they will use metrics, feedback and analytics to make improvements. That's how any product works, whether it be your washing machine or the website where you bought your washing machine.

Alpha testing is testing. It's a testing phase, for testing. It really doesn't get any more complex than that.

I'm not even sure what your gripe is. If you don't want to help with testing… then don't :p The alpha isn't going to delay the beta, and you won't lose anything by not playing it. So if it offends your sensibilities then just pretend that it doesn't exist. Problem solved.

Svenn
08-28-2013, 07:58 AM
Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, Open Beta. These terms have lost most of their meaning in recent years. The game has been in Alpha(internal testing by developers) for quite awhile now. When we start playing it will actually be a beta(testing done by potential users), the mixing up and redefining of these terms is a major pet peeve of mine.

Actually, Alpha tends to mean "Feature Complete" while beta is "Content Complete". It has nothing to do with who is testing it. Users can easily test an Alpha.

Honestly though, most of the Alpha/Beta testing that happens with games these days is actually more of a demo than an Alpha/Beta test. The "Alpha" that we're getting is probably more of an early beta technically.

Mindless
08-28-2013, 08:20 AM
Actually no, we will be their users. And at that point they will use metrics, feedback and analytics to make improvements. That's how any product works, whether it be your washing machine or the website where you bought your washing machine.

Alpha testing is testing. It's a testing phase, for testing. It really doesn't get any more complex than that.

I'm not even sure what your gripe is. If you don't want to help with testing… then don't :p The alpha isn't going to delay the beta, and you won't lose anything by not playing it. So if it offends your sensibilities then just pretend that it doesn't exist. Problem solved.

So no harmless semi-joke either I guess (and I didn't say anything about "alpha" testers). Also the beta was delayed and now we get an alpha at the estimated time for beta instead :/. ops I did it again :&

Mathaw
08-28-2013, 08:45 AM
So no harmless semi-joke either I guess (and I didn't say anything about "alpha" testers). Also the beta was delayed and now we get an alpha at the estimated time for beta instead :/. ops I did it again :&

Is a semi-joke something that you mean, but regret saying? ;)

4gn0st1x
08-28-2013, 08:55 AM
So no harmless semi-joke either I guess (and I didn't say anything about "alpha" testers). Also the beta was delayed and now we get an alpha at the estimated time for beta instead :/. ops I did it again :&

Did you really expect them to hit those estimated delivery deadlines?

Mindless
08-28-2013, 11:31 AM
Is a semi-joke something that you mean, but regret saying? ;)

Regeting what ones says is bad. Reflect and improve if needed. Please don't make this thread about me as that is off topic. If you want to talk to me, discuss or shame me publicly then do it in a proper thread ;).


Did you really expect them to hit those estimated delivery deadlines?

Does it matter what I expected? There is nothing wrong with being a little sad because of the delay.

This is seriously the last post by me. *seriousface

Xenavire
08-28-2013, 02:23 PM
Actually, Alpha tends to mean "Feature Complete" while beta is "Content Complete". It has nothing to do with who is testing it. Users can easily test an Alpha.

Honestly though, most of the Alpha/Beta testing that happens with games these days is actually more of a demo than an Alpha/Beta test. The "Alpha" that we're getting is probably more of an early beta technically.

Well, considering PvE content is far from complete, we would be square in the Alpha or pre-Alpha right now, going by feature complete and content complete.

Remember, if feature complete encompasses all features, then there is a good chance guilds are yet to be completed, likewise with crafting and PvE unless I miss my guess, and all number of things. In fact, that definition may mean we are technically in alpha well into 'beta'.

I am just going to talk myself in circles if I keep going, but the definitions are fairly unclear, especially when we don't know what will be included. Alpha, Beta, the important thing is we will finally be able to get into the game, in some shape.

BigDog
08-28-2013, 02:59 PM
This entire thread's been a weird case study, on display : Social dysfunction and the nuanced character flaws of gamers.

Bravo.

I for one think seeing several distinct neurosis interact is marvelous and hopefully very informative. Personally I'm very proud of my own display, I think it shows a certain arrogance and conceit.

The entire way this thread has unraveled is truly an experience worth lauding. I love (especially) that this is a simple issue that will solve itself and we've taken it on as it were our mantle as though we have some real effect on the outcomes, truly a display worth noting.

You know, when i originally posted the thread, i thought about it later and thought to myself, "I am probably just being alarmist, intelligent people play these games, i should have more faith in people."

Then i came to check on this thread today and thought, "Nope, i was 100% correct the first time." I just cringe a little when i think of some person playing in the alpha, it crashes and then they go on a tirade on every place that will accept text on the internet about "how bullshit it is that the alpha crashed, and i paid xx$ on the kickstarter to deal with this...and blah blah blah"

Zomnivore
08-28-2013, 04:38 PM
You know, when i originally posted the thread, i thought about it later and thought to myself, "I am probably just being alarmist, intelligent people play these games, i should have more faith in people."

Opinions differ, circumstances differ its all a mixed bag and getting pumped up and worried for something you can't fix or change or should even be this worried about, at all...isn't healthy.

Its not even like being stupid at a certain time is wrong, if down the line you get smarter...well its not like you could be smart before you were stupid.

Either way, professionals are on the case and will definitely handle situations to their, and their communities perceived benefit. I think its healthy to let stupid air out because there's a way to capitalize on it and exploit it and if you don't you're losing a market share that will always be there.

Also its not wrong to want something to be better no matter how stupid someone is about it.