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View Full Version : Feature Suggestion In-Game Hex Compendium/Rule Book



Blitz1775
08-30-2013, 11:36 AM
While obviously Hex being a digital TCG the rules will resolve themselves naturally. I'm hoping that there would be a way even during a match of pulling open a type of help system that could go over more in depth on quirky rules or mechanics. Like taking out a page of various things that have occurred is sometimes how creatures with buffs on enemy deaths resolve during a fight.

Or for me recently while playing Magic the Undying (When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no +1/+1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a +1/+1 counter on it) mechanic causes a lot of confusion rule wise. While easy on paper in casual games has ran into questions regarding mechanics. A couple have stated that +1/+1 is a unique effect so that you can indeed run a buff effect and not lose the undying ability, while one has stated that in magic all states are recorded and that it is lazyness of the players to just add and subtract the counters so it actually as an example could have (3 +1/+1 counters, 4 -1/-1 counters and it would still be considered as having a +1/+1 counter instead of the traditional player saying it has -1/-1 counter on it.)

There are many more nuanced rules I'm sure veterans would know, but I just wanted to highlight a point that I think it beneficial to have an in-game system to help explain the more trickier mechanics.

Shadowelf
08-30-2013, 12:20 PM
Or for me recently while playing Magic the Undying (When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no +1/+1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a +1/+1 counter on it) mechanic causes a lot of confusion rule wise. While easy on paper in casual games has ran into questions regarding mechanics. A couple have stated that +1/+1 is a unique effect so that you can indeed run a buff effect and not lose the undying ability, while one has stated that in magic all states are recorded and that it is lazyness of the players to just add and subtract the counters so it actually as an example could have (3 +1/+1 counters, 4 -1/-1 counters and it would still be considered as having a +1/+1 counter instead of the traditional player saying it has -1/-1 counter on it.)

There are many more nuanced rules I'm sure veterans would know, but I just wanted to highlight a point that I think it beneficial to have an in-game system to help explain the more trickier mechanics.

I think that for cases like undying the game will auto guide you, meaning that once that creature dies, and meets the prerequisites, it will automatically return to the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it

Blitz1775
08-30-2013, 01:22 PM
Right I understand that it would auto resolve, but understanding why it did it is important for higher level play. Since it allows you to understand take advantage of more complicated mechanics.

Wolfe
08-30-2013, 01:57 PM
I agree that a more complete rule book would be helpful. It doesn't have to be in-game to make me happy - on their website somewhere would work just fine. The best way to get a feel for all the nuances is definitely to play the game, but sometimes (especially during beta) the game is wrong. Using your example, if the creature comes back with a +1/+1 and you put a -1/-1 counter on it, it would still have both counters. If you instead removed the counter through a different sort of effect like Sage of Fables, it could trigger undying a second time and come back. If the game client handled it improperly, how would we know without a point of reference? Published rules are good for deck theorycrafting too.

Shadowelf
08-30-2013, 02:18 PM
I don't know whether there will be a detailed rulebook (i assume that there will be either in pdf or ingame), but they are planning for an ingame tutorial http://www.twitch.tv/knightsoftheroundshow/b/430004874 check 0:11:55 onwards

Meanwhile there is this nice hex guide made by HyenaNipples http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=27136

Also hex's keywords http://hextcg.com/keywords/

Xenavire
08-30-2013, 03:01 PM
I agree that a more complete rule book would be helpful. It doesn't have to be in-game to make me happy - on their website somewhere would work just fine. The best way to get a feel for all the nuances is definitely to play the game, but sometimes (especially during beta) the game is wrong. Using your example, if the creature comes back with a +1/+1 and you put a -1/-1 counter on it, it would still have both counters. If you instead removed the counter through a different sort of effect like Sage of Fables, it could trigger undying a second time and come back. If the game client handled it improperly, how would we know without a point of reference? Published rules are good for deck theorycrafting too.

I know when I was playing (a long time ago) the official ruling was every -1/-1 counter put on would first remove +1/+1 counters. No exceptions, and it only affected counters (not passive buff effects). Under those rules, putting a -1/-1 counter on an undying creature would allow it to come back repeatedly (as long as it had no counters on it each time it died.)

I don't know if the official rules still work this way (after the revamp when damage on the stack dissapeared etc) but DotP still uses those rules. While DotP may be fairly crud, they do seem to have the rules fairly accurate, so the fact -1/-1 counters remove +1/+1 counters in DotP leads me to belive the rule still stands.

I actually don't know why there would be any confusion about undying, knowing that rule. *Shrugs*

But definitely +1 on the whole comprehensive rules supplement idea. (I feel like all rules will be explained in-depth on the card using digital linking anyway, much like DotP.)

Lockon
08-30-2013, 03:31 PM
A complete rule book would definitely be helpful, especially for working out combos that rely on odd rulings, something I run into a lot. Sometimes it works as I thought it does, sometimes it doesn't, usually because I couldn't get my hands on a copy of the rules.

ramseytheory
08-30-2013, 04:13 PM
A complete rulebook would be nice, but what would be most helpful would be a sandbox. A mode that lets you set up any possible game state, then play an action and see how it resolves. (As a bonus, with a little modification you could let people create and share puzzles...)

Wolfe
08-30-2013, 06:37 PM
I know when I was playing (a long time ago) the official ruling was every -1/-1 counter put on would first remove +1/+1 counters. No exceptions, and it only affected counters (not passive buff effects). Under those rules, putting a -1/-1 counter on an undying creature would allow it to come back repeatedly (as long as it had no counters on it each time it died.)


You're quite right, actually. I spaced out on that one. Thanks!

Punk
09-01-2013, 07:54 AM
Or for me recently while playing Magic the Undying (When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no +1/+1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a +1/+1 counter on it) mechanic causes a lot of confusion rule wise. While easy on paper in casual games has ran into questions regarding mechanics. A couple have stated that +1/+1 is a unique effect so that you can indeed run a buff effect and not lose the undying ability, while one has stated that in magic all states are recorded and that it is lazyness of the players to just add and subtract the counters so it actually as an example could have (3 +1/+1 counters, 4 -1/-1 counters and it would still be considered as having a +1/+1 counter instead of the traditional player saying it has -1/-1 counter on it.)

It just comes down to reading comprehension..

"Undying (When this creature dies, if it had no +1/+1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a +1/+1 counter on it.)"

If your creature is about to die, but I respond but using an instant to put a +1/+1 counter on it, the creatures undying ability would not trigger. This mechanic confused most players I played against at major events when it first came out, but it was always very straight forward to me.


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This "complete rule book" you guys are referring to is commonly termed 'Comprehensive Rules' in all other TCG's that I have played. This is something that I have been asking for since my very first forum post. I don't see how they couldn't put this directly into the game's interface under a help menu.

Tinuvas
09-01-2013, 11:47 PM
I would really appreciate an in-game comprehensive rule book, especially if it could be linked to key words etc.

For example:
1) Card with crush...you know some things have changed about Crush recently, you click on the crush keyword and it gives you the latest rulings on the card as well as the full text of the current rules on Crush.
2) You are ready to drop your Pack Raptor and want to see what 'rulings' or rules clarifications have been made on that card. Clicking on the card title takes you to those rulings.

Most of the reason I win ANY strategy games is that I understand the rules better than the next guy (I'm a better rules lawyer than strat maker I guess). Some form of the above will be needed at some level, and I would prefer it to be in-game and easy to access.