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Norious
09-04-2013, 05:53 AM
Will Hex incorporate social media /networking into the game? Things like pve successes posting on facebook "I beat the Kraken!", etc. Are low hanging fruit ideas, but lots of other things im sure.

Match replays
Legendary/rare card finds
Card Achievements
Legendary item loot
Keep alerts - Your keep has been attacked by Cory!
Guild alerts / achievements
Tournament achievements
Dungeon unlocks

Game invites, etc.

ossuary
09-04-2013, 05:57 AM
Please god no.

Mindless
09-04-2013, 06:06 AM
Please god no.

+1

Reraver
09-04-2013, 06:09 AM
If when the popup window for doing any of the above appears, i wouldnt mind if there was a tiny tiny facebook icon at the very bottom corner of the screen to give me the option to do so, I wouldn't mind making posts on FB to try and get some friends into the game, BUT having the game constantly say "SHARE THIS ON FACEBOOK" is what nobody wants.

Kami
09-04-2013, 06:10 AM
The only thing I hope is that they don't force you to link Social Media Accounts to your account for bonuses/achievements/etc.

I'm one of the very rare group of people who do not have a Facebook account for example and I'd rather not make an account just for something like that. >_>

Vomitlord
09-04-2013, 06:16 AM
Facebook should be shut down and it's founders tortured and killed.

Everybody's time should be too valuable for that level of inanity (something I constantly tell my wife whenever she mentions it).

It annoys me that people are shocked when I tell them I'm not on it. They seem genuinely surprised I can live my life without seeing pictures of other peoples nights out!

Even an Icon for it anywhere in game will send my blood pressure through the roof.

In summary then, I'm not for it:mad:

Norious
09-04-2013, 06:21 AM
While I agree a program that forces the player to post on social media is more burdensome. Maybe a icon somewhere so if someone wanted to share a Hex experience with others, they can.

zadies
09-04-2013, 07:08 AM
Single player games I will admit that social media linking is quite annoying and bad. There was quite a long discussion about raids and also achievements previously the indicating that in MMOs a number of people do enjoy bragging. Slowing the game to upload screenshots with time stamps makes for an incredibly easy way to track things like world first and ensure that you are all out letting the world know about it.

Khazrakh
09-04-2013, 07:34 AM
Please god no.

Came here to say that.
Thank you!

Soul-of-Void
09-04-2013, 08:08 AM
Please god no.

I`m with you on this.

Sergan
09-04-2013, 08:56 AM
No problem with that if no delay the release.. in last chance just can ignore but if delay definitely no.

Maphalux
09-04-2013, 09:35 AM
I'm ok with it being an option but, if it is required or gives rewards of any kind, I will flip my lid to be forced to use it.

Mr.Funsocks
09-04-2013, 10:40 AM
As long as there's the ability to instantly punch people in the face who use it, I'm ok with adding this.

felmare
09-04-2013, 10:41 AM
As long as there's the ability to instantly punch people in the face who use it, I'm ok with adding this.

you forgot to add "and punch in the face the people who implemented this idea"

Khazrakh
09-04-2013, 10:43 AM
you forgot to add "and punch in the face the people who implemented this idea"

...with the people who use it!

Mr.Funsocks
09-04-2013, 10:51 AM
Hey, I don't want to abuse the people who implemented something that let me punch twats in the face.

keldrin
09-04-2013, 11:03 AM
Yeah! we need this!
I can finally be as annoying as people who like to facebook what they have for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Everytime they sneeze.
And basically every other mini event in their life.
(although, I'm not sure that was as annoying as when everyone was asking me to tend their crops on farmville)

zadies
09-04-2013, 11:36 AM
Issue here is there are a number of people who will do this because they like to brag and having the game do it automatically makes it much less tamper proof.

felmare
09-04-2013, 11:38 AM
I have seen this pop up in absolutely no other games other than facebook/ios/android games. no reason to change that now. If you like to brag do it on your own time dont make me click through popups in game. huge turn off.

Miwa
09-04-2013, 01:05 PM
Please god no.
Plussity plus plus. There aren't enough pluses to add... Nobody else gives a rat's arse what crap you are doing in some game.

Gorgol
09-04-2013, 02:27 PM
please for the love of god, no

Yoss
09-04-2013, 02:48 PM
Please god no.
This.

However, if Hex wants to have in-game networking, I'm fine with that. No external links though. NONE.

Xenavire
09-04-2013, 05:33 PM
Not needed. Nothing is stopping you screen capping and posting on facebook, twitter, blogs etc.

But there is nothing to be gained by putting that function ingame. If there was any merit whatsoever to the idea, blizzard would have been all over it long ago, as would every other major mmo developer.

funktion
09-04-2013, 05:54 PM
Facebook should be shut down and it's founders tortured and killed.

Everybody's time should be too valuable for that level of inanity (something I constantly tell my wife whenever she mentions it).

It annoys me that people are shocked when I tell them I'm not on it. They seem genuinely surprised I can live my life without seeing pictures of other peoples nights out!

Even an Icon for it anywhere in game will send my blood pressure through the roof.

In summary then, I'm not for it:mad:

This x100

Xintia
09-04-2013, 05:55 PM
RIFT does it actually. There's a function that lets you link your Twitter to the game and post achievements, etc. :P

funktion
09-04-2013, 05:56 PM
Issue here is there are a number of people who will do this because they like to brag and having the game do it automatically makes it much less tamper proof.

That's not an issue. "Tamper proof" what?!?! what is anyone tampering with?

keroko
09-04-2013, 07:13 PM
theres to be something with twitch? that works for most things you might want to watch?

Mr.Funsocks
09-04-2013, 08:18 PM
theres to be something with twitch? that works for most things you might want to watch?

They're working with Twitch, there'll probably be an in-client method of streaming.

Also, while it doesn't work in games, most browsers have an ad-blocking plugin you can get. You can add a filter with wildcard masks to filter out almost all of the Facebook and twitter "share" buttons. You would be positively amazed at how much cleaner webpages look when you remove that clutter.

Malicus
09-04-2013, 08:31 PM
Not a huge fan of facebook myself though I have no objection to its existence within the game provided it is firmly opt in rather than out. You should be able to go into settings and configure such interactions but it should not need to be turned off and I do not want to be asked for my facebook details every time I log in,

Gorgol
09-04-2013, 08:43 PM
I feel like it would cause more negativity toward the game from an outsider's perspective than it would bring people in. I know anytime that garbage shows up on my facebook thing from any of the number of games that have it, it pisses me off more than makes me want to play or go to whatever it is.

Rydavim
09-04-2013, 09:11 PM
please god no.

qft

Lockhouse
09-04-2013, 09:35 PM
I'm finding the levels of intolerance in this thread fairly disturbing. Expressing extreme hate and even death threats for using and/or creating something that people like to use to communicate and connect with people just because you don't like it is just about the same level of bigotry as hating two dudes holding hands walking down the street. Sometimes people seem to think that their ideas or environment is the absolute correct or only one that exists with no tolerance of new or independent thoughts.
There were several dictators with the same mindset.

Hey look, neato stat
Facebook reports 699 million users as of 30 June 2013 -
http://investor.fb.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=780093
(and somewhat less if you want to be skeptical with all the sexual predators and other fake accounts - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janet-tavakoli/facebooks-fake-numbers-on_b_2276515.html or search any news article about a mom harassing the student via facebook that was bullying her kid)

Even if there were only a few million people on facebook, comments like "Nobody else gives a rat's arse what crap you are doing in some game" and anything that essentially generalizes the entire population into one mindset when there are obviously people enjoying the subject of the matter is absolutely ridiculous. Especially when everyone here is somebody who gives at least a little bit of a rats arse being on a gaming forum talking about a game not even out yet.


There is a slow decline of users of the younger generation on facebook due to parents and the like being on there as well. Most teens don't want their parents or other members of their family to know what they're up to when they're not at home. I sure as hell didn't want my parents knowing.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/quickerbettertech/2013/08/19/why-facebook-is-in-decline/
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/teens-facebook-decline-report/story?id=18935711

As mentioned in the Forbes article, Facebook is an application that may die out in time and then there will be a facebook option in game that will be obsolete and need to be removed.

Games like Farmville and Candy crush saga owe some of their popularity to the advertisement through social media.
(and the rest to tricky tactics like easy micro transactions to speed up game play or unlock levels)
http://www.cracked.com/article_18709_6-devious-ways-farmville-gets-people-hooked_p2.html
Personally I don't like either of these games either, but hey, must be the money.

Personal thoughts.
I don't really mind if they add in a button to post to facebook or any other social media. I'm pretty sure that people who follow competitive gameplay of anything, whether it be football or mlg, has looked up what time the game is or follows a blog or another type of social media to get information on whats up with a team or specific player. I follow a lot of starcraft 2 people and people who do speed runs because I like to know when they're streaming or if they're going to a new event.

If I just get home and my best friend happened to post a Hex achievement that hes been working on for a while to facebook a few minutes earlier, now I know that hes playing and I can ask if hes free to find another body and raid for a while. Oh hey, a few other gamers on his fb saw the achievement and wonder what the game is. Hex is free so they can go ahead and try it out. Posting to facebook or twitter that you're playing hex so that people can play with you isn't much different than any pro gamer announcing that they're streaming in 5 minutes. A system like in Rift where I can go deep into the settings and connect a facebook or twitter account to if I'd like to share screenshots or video would be neutral enough.

Who cares? relevant friends and people who follow you care.


I also think its unnecessary to suggest it not take priority over other features, I would like to believe a company as successful as Cryptozoic is smart enough to prioritize a feature like this with all the other gameplay elements being worked on.

Ending Notes:


I would almost never use it
Could cause annoyance from spam, need to use in moderation
Don't see any real harm
If its totally 100% optional, go for it.
Some people may just manualy screen cap and post it themselves though (making the feature useless in the end)
Sharing a post that you're playing hex is not much different than announcing you're streaming
Less hate and intolerance please



Dont really care about BS calls on any of the sites posted, just dont want you thinking I pulled things out my ass without reading around the news for a bit. Not all sources were cited, too many news sites talk about the same things. The levels of unreasonable/unjustifiable hate made me post this.

The_Wine_Gnat
09-04-2013, 09:48 PM
I'm finding the levels of intolerance in this thread fairly disturbing. Expressing extreme hate and even death threats for using and/or creating something that people like to use to communicate and connect with people just because you don't like it is just about the same level of bigotry as hating two dudes holding hands walking down the street. Sometimes people seem to think that their ideas or environment is the absolute correct or only one that exists with no tolerance of new or independent thoughts. There were several dictators with the same mindset.


Might be the best post I've seen so far. Happy to know someone has an open mind. Kudos to you good sir!

Gorgol
09-04-2013, 09:59 PM
If I just get home and my best friend happened to post a Hex achievement that hes been working on for a while to facebook a few minutes earlier, now I know that hes playing and I can ask if hes free to find another body and raid for a while. Oh hey, a few other gamers on his fb saw the achievement and wonder what the game is. Hex is free so they can go ahead and try it out. Posting to facebook or twitter that you're playing hex so that people can play with you isn't much different than any pro gamer announcing that they're streaming in 5 minutes. A system like in Rift where I can go deep into the settings and connect a facebook or twitter account to if I'd like to share screenshots or video would be neutral enough.


I would almost never use it
Could cause annoyance from spam, need to use in moderation
Don't see any real harm
If its totally 100% optional, go for it.
Some people may just manualy screen cap and post it themselves though (making the feature useless in the end)
Sharing a post that you're playing hex is not much different than announcing you're streaming
Less hate and intolerance please



I can see this being ok, its just the crap that goes on where it gets posted every 5 minutes like the retardedness farmville got to. If it's wanting to post after winning every match, making a deck, starting a dungeon, taking a dump, opening the game, buying a pack, no thanks. If its like you mention above, that's great.

Khazrakh
09-04-2013, 10:40 PM
Games like Farmville and Candy crush saga owe some of their popularity to the advertisement through social media.

I don't mean any offense, but you really can't compare a full fledged MMO/TCG like Hex to some crappy F2P game like Farmville. Those games are actually meant to be social media F2P, they want you to bring in all your friends so they can waste their money on the game as well. Just by the way, I'm using facebook myself, it's a good way to plan stuff with your friends scattered across half the country and yes, even share some photos from my last vacation with my friends. Still I kindly ask anybody who posts social game BS to not do that again. If they do, I just block them.
In my personal opinion you'd get more negativity out of having such a feature than anything else.

Mr.Funsocks
09-04-2013, 10:50 PM
Someone needs to take lessons in formatting... and not overreacting... Liking Facebook has nothing to do with "an open mind" and everything to do with "banal trivialities."

FeelNFine
09-04-2013, 11:08 PM
Yes, my love of genocidal dictators goes hand in hand with my hatred of spam.

Patrigan
09-04-2013, 11:28 PM
I'm mostly surprised by the level of egocentrism in this thread. For a group of people who calls themselves a community, there's not much community, just elitism.

Having social options is fairly easy to implement (http://blogs.unity3d.com/2013/03/26/unity-and-facebook-are-now-in-a-relationship-and-its-awesome/)

It can be done none-intrusive, so people can choose to opt-in. Making it an option and not mandatory. Just a small button after a win allowing you to brag and a button after you foil/EAd a card allowing you to show off. Perhaps even a like/share button on a news post.

It WILL get more people in the game. This is not even a question, it's a fact. Everytime someone posts something to his/her facebook/twitter/Twitch/other social thing account, they are spreading the Hex awareness. This awareness makes new persons try out the game. Do we want that kind of people in our game? Hell yeah! The more the merrier.

Social media is the main reason that HS is so popular right now. Granted it's primarily twitch, but that's a form of social media.

The_Wine_Gnat
09-04-2013, 11:36 PM
I'm mostly surprised by the level of egocentrism in this thread. For a group of people who calls themselves a community, there's not much community, just elitism.


You are spot on. I'm surprised by how many people who are fairly regular posters demonstrate what you mentioned or a version of "I'm right, you're wrong, and if you don't agree with me you are an idiot" argument.

edit: As a disclaimer, my stance on FB posts is this. Make it optional. Give people the freedom to choose it if they want or completely ignore. Have an open mind people. Watch less Faux News.

FeelNFine
09-05-2013, 12:17 AM
Oh you were serious Wine? I thought you were mocking Lockhouse. Let me take a step back then and reply seriously (which is rare for me but I will try to be fair)

What you are seeing from all the 'oh dear god no' comments and the plus one is not elitism, but fear. Social Networking involvement in games has become synonymous with spam. What the OP suggested was implementing that exact same type of spam. Sure there are untried ways of working in facebook and stuff that could prove to be non intrusive and effective, but whenever the majority of the world sees "Hey I just beat level 47!" The click ignore. Hex would just become another spam bot based on OP's suggestions.

Hating spam is not intolerance. You are pushing your own perspectives on everyone else. From simple short posts that boil down to "I hate spam, spam is bad" You have extrapolated closed-mindedness and, if you were being serious, portraid your image of an american political mind set that hardly applies to most people in this community.

Please try (and I sincerely mean this in the nicest way possible) to lighten up. This is normal friendly behavior. People who just think 'eh, I wouldn't like it but whatever' will join in the "NO NO NO NO NO" because the more people who participate in it, the funnier it is.

If you have ideas on how to creatively work in social media other than spam, please, feel free to share, I'm positive you will get good honest feed back, or at least you would have if you didn't open up with insulting everyone.

@Lockhouse, no one is expressing extreme hate or death threats. I am sure the creators and users of facebook have nothing to fear from this community, trust me. No harm in playful overreaction.

Miwa
09-05-2013, 01:13 AM
If you knew nothing of Hex, and saw Facebook spam from it, how many of you would just assume it's another terrible game like Farmville, and then completely write it off in your mind? I have precious few brain cells left to be killing them off attempting to find a decent game by following any sort of FB link from spam.

Social games != Hex. If I want to see how someone is doing in Hex, I'll bloody well ask them, or go to the hex web site to see player stats and such. (As I expect there will eventually be player pages...) There's a huge difference between push and pull of info.

Gorgol
09-05-2013, 01:17 AM
Social games != Hex. If I want to see how someone is doing in Hex, I'll bloody well ask them, or go to the hex web site to see player stats and such. (As I expect there will eventually be player pages...) There's a huge difference between push and pull of info.
:eek: How dare you! Get out of here with your elitism! Did you not see the big post with all the numbers and what nots about Facebook??? :rolleyes:
On a serious note, player pages or something similar would be interesting.

Patrigan
09-05-2013, 02:07 AM
:eek: How dare you! Get out of here with your elitism! Did you not see the big post with all the numbers and what nots about Facebook??? :rolleyes:
On a serious note, player pages or something similar would be interesting.

At least FeelNFine replied in a proper manner, this is just distasteful, really it is... However, FeelNFine, it is NEVER EVER okay to make death threats, not even as a joke. People that do that should, in my opionon, get an immediate ban from the forums for a long period of time. There is nothing funny about death threats and it's a very toxic way of "joking" around. I'm sure that if I were to "death threat" jokingly on LoL I'd have my ban within the week.

Miwa, I disagree. A good, not too spammy push approach is fine. The issue is more that people who aren't even on facebook are commenting that they don't want it. They're basically blocking off those that do want it, even if it could potentially not even affect them at all...

Granted, the way CZE approaches something like this might make all the difference. If indeed I get a popup ingame sayiong that I ca post something to FB, I would probably stop playing within the week. But completely shutting off all possibilities of posting to facebook is equally bad. Try to find a middle ground people.

ossuary
09-05-2013, 03:58 AM
Oh you were serious Wine? I thought you were mocking Lockhouse. Let me take a step back then and reply seriously (which is rare for me but I will try to be fair)

What you are seeing from all the 'oh dear god no' comments and the plus one is not elitism, but fear. Social Networking involvement in games has become synonymous with spam. What the OP suggested was implementing that exact same type of spam. Sure there are untried ways of working in facebook and stuff that could prove to be non intrusive and effective, but whenever the majority of the world sees "Hey I just beat level 47!" The click ignore. Hex would just become another spam bot based on OP's suggestions.

Hating spam is not intolerance. You are pushing your own perspectives on everyone else. From simple short posts that boil down to "I hate spam, spam is bad" You have extrapolated closed-mindedness and, if you were being serious, portraid your image of an american political mind set that hardly applies to most people in this community.

Please try (and I sincerely mean this in the nicest way possible) to lighten up. This is normal friendly behavior. People who just think 'eh, I wouldn't like it but whatever' will join in the "NO NO NO NO NO" because the more people who participate in it, the funnier it is.

If you have ideas on how to creatively work in social media other than spam, please, feel free to share, I'm positive you will get good honest feed back, or at least you would have if you didn't open up with insulting everyone.

@Lockhouse, no one is expressing extreme hate or death threats. I am sure the creators and users of facebook have nothing to fear from this community, trust me. No harm in playful overreaction.

Yes. This. :)

(BTW, do I get a prize for my "please god no" being the most quoted post of all time? ;))

Xenavire
09-05-2013, 04:11 AM
At least FeelNFine replied in a proper manner, this is just distasteful, really it is... However, FeelNFine, it is NEVER EVER okay to make death threats, not even as a joke. People that do that should, in my opionon, get an immediate ban from the forums for a long period of time. There is nothing funny about death threats and it's a very toxic way of "joking" around. I'm sure that if I were to "death threat" jokingly on LoL I'd have my ban within the week.

Miwa, I disagree. A good, not too spammy push approach is fine. The issue is more that people who aren't even on facebook are commenting that they don't want it. They're basically blocking off those that do want it, even if it could potentially not even affect them at all...

Granted, the way CZE approaches something like this might make all the difference. If indeed I get a popup ingame sayiong that I ca post something to FB, I would probably stop playing within the week. But completely shutting off all possibilities of posting to facebook is equally bad. Try to find a middle ground people.

The middle ground is letting people do it themselves. Are people getting so lazy these days that they require a button to push to do something social?

I am on facebook. I see the spam and hate it, and I hate that there are so few options to filter out the crap. I follow HexTcg (the official one) and I don't see a reason to have more posts on facebook, unless it it is well thought out posts. Hex does not need to suffer the horrible spam of facebook, and I know from experience that spam and ads do nothing to gather interest from intelligent people.

So there is no need to integrate social networks into the client. Besides, where is the cutoff? Facebook? Twitter? Tumbler, Reddit, 4chan?

Arbiter
09-05-2013, 04:21 AM
The more I read the forums, the more I wonder whether this is the game for me. Threads like this paint the community as not one that I want to be a part of. Sure there are some great individuals but on balance this forum is certainly a lot more toxic and unpleasant than my facebook feed.

No one wants an auto-announce facebook link, but I cannot see why there is an objection to allowing users to connect or broadcast to social media direct from the game. Pretty much all of the posters who want to dismember anyone that looks at facebook would be aghast if there was no capability to livecast games, yet that is just another form of social media.

Half of my facebook friends are from my days playing Magic the Gathering, and I suspect that would be pretty common for anyone who played the live version of the game. Facebook pages are also used on occasion as guild websites. Many gamers tweet about the games they play. I just cannot see the negatives in making it easy (note: not forcing) for people to connect through social media. Rift did it, and it was useful without causing any problems.

blakegrandon
09-05-2013, 04:32 AM
The more I read the forums, the more I wonder whether this is the game for me. Threads like this paint the community as not one that I want to be a part of. Sure there are some great individuals but on balance this forum is certainly a lot more toxic and unpleasant than my facebook feed.


You have to remember that forums are a VOCAL minority of the "community" and tends to attract very opinionated users.

Frankly without Facebook I would have never learned about Hex, I think it's ironic that people are so anti-social for a game that got most of it's funding from Crowd-sourcing. The majority of people that backed Hex probably found out about it through, guess what, Facebook!

I know I've gotten about 10 friends that are going to try it because I posted a Hex link on facebook, and much like pictures people will either like them or ignore them at the end of the day.

I'd love to see Hex all over my "facebook" if you know what I mean, frankly it's better than 99% of the crap out there.

Is there a lot of spam on Facebook? Absolutely, and I get rid of the crap like post this picture or else, amber alerts that are fake, "warnings" that are fake, and banal crap.

Does that mean facebook sucks? Hell no, it's a user error if Facebook is sucking for you, as it allows me to keep in touch with people in international countries(over 50% of my friends list is divers and people I meet overseas) and it allows me to organize events a LOT easier.

I'm all for Facebook integration with the caviet that the players decide how little or how much information is posted and shared.

For those not actually using facebook, it won't affect you in the slightest, and for those worried about spam facebook has started to condense posts that are "alike".

Hell I see more actual "ads" from Facebook than I do banal posts nowadays because I've cut all that shit out of my news feed.

It really all boils down to user error, Facebook is a tool that can either be a great or a terrible experience, getting rid of shit like candy crush/farmville from your news feed is REALLY easy.

FeelNFine
09-05-2013, 11:32 AM
Also keep in mind, this isn't even what the forums will be like once the game gets going, these are the bored people that have been entranced. Also, as a fan of dark comedy, death threats can be quite hilarious. I was the weird kid who actually understood that A Series of Unfortunate Events was a comedy.

Vomitlord
09-05-2013, 11:47 AM
Facebook reports 699 million users as of 30 June 2013 -


699 million people need to get a life!;)

Miwa
09-05-2013, 01:05 PM
No one wants an auto-announce facebook link, but I cannot see why there is an objection to allowing users to connect or broadcast to social media direct from the game. Pretty much all of the posters who want to dismember anyone that looks at facebook would be aghast if there was no capability to livecast games, yet that is just another form of social media.
Nothing prevents you from posting whatever the heck you want on your facebook. Got something in Hex, make a post. Got some bellybutton lint? Make a post. Whatever floats your boat. No support needed in game. But, I guess it's likely a trivial feature, so I'm ok with them giving the option, as long as the game never asks you when something happens if you immediately want to spam facebook with your so-called triumph.

The same is true for live streaming of games. The games people are watching on twitch.tv don't have some magical 'stream to twitch' mode. You just run an encoder, and play the game.

Then again, I'm in the minority, as I pretty much have abandoned my FB account, because it's 90% game spam, or idiots reposting links to stupidity. Communicating with friends is mostly through IRC and occasionally twitter now. :P

Xenavire
09-05-2013, 03:51 PM
You have to remember that forums are a VOCAL minority of the "community" and tends to attract very opinionated users.

Frankly without Facebook I would have never learned about Hex, I think it's ironic that people are so anti-social for a game that got most of it's funding from Crowd-sourcing. The majority of people that backed Hex probably found out about it through, guess what, Facebook!

I know I've gotten about 10 friends that are going to try it because I posted a Hex link on facebook, and much like pictures people will either like them or ignore them at the end of the day.

I'd love to see Hex all over my "facebook" if you know what I mean, frankly it's better than 99% of the crap out there.

Is there a lot of spam on Facebook? Absolutely, and I get rid of the crap like post this picture or else, amber alerts that are fake, "warnings" that are fake, and banal crap.

Does that mean facebook sucks? Hell no, it's a user error if Facebook is sucking for you, as it allows me to keep in touch with people in international countries(over 50% of my friends list is divers and people I meet overseas) and it allows me to organize events a LOT easier.

I'm all for Facebook integration with the caviet that the players decide how little or how much information is posted and shared.

For those not actually using facebook, it won't affect you in the slightest, and for those worried about spam facebook has started to condense posts that are "alike".

Hell I see more actual "ads" from Facebook than I do banal posts nowadays because I've cut all that shit out of my news feed.

It really all boils down to user error, Facebook is a tool that can either be a great or a terrible experience, getting rid of shit like candy crush/farmville from your news feed is REALLY easy.

Theres differences though, between advertisement and spamming. I don't want to hear about a game by seeing someone posting on FB about 10 different achievements they managed to get in a game I have never heard about.

What would interest me, is a well thought out, compelling post about what makes the game interesting and fun to play, and the post could have examples of that linked.

No need to make it a spambot-like nightmare.

Mr.Funsocks
09-05-2013, 04:11 PM
If you think spamming Facebook feeds is a good way to get people interested in a game like Hex... I dunno what to tell you. No one likes those posts, unless it's a game they already play. If you feel the need to share things with people that already play... there's forums, communities, websites, etc.

If you feel the need to share an interesting article about Hex, or a Hex event you're attending, someone might actually care, and it might engender interest in the game. No one cares that I bought a sink basket. No one cares that you got level 10 in Hex. Lets not encourage the "pointlessly spammy" mindset of the internet and social media.

Rydavim
09-05-2013, 08:08 PM
Okay, I suppose at this point this deserves a more verbose answer. The short version is this - I do not want Hex to be a Facebook game. It shouldn't be. The community shouldn't be on Facebook. It should be here, and in the game, and on the fansites. More and more games these days require you to connect to social media, either directly (ie, you can't log in without doing so) or indirectly (ie, exclusives or perks given to people who spam their friends with inane crap).

I do not use Facebook, or social media. I don't want to. I want to play a mature and fleshed-out MMO TCG. If people want to post about Hex on their Facebook page, that's their prerogative. But the second this becomes a spam-your-highschool-acquaintances game, there will be one more KS tier up for sale. Facebook is not a gaming community. If you want to share Hex with your friends, do it! By all means, the more the merrier, but you don't need to stick an ugly blue button in my face for eternity to do that.

If you're a person who loves Facebook and wants everyone to know what you're doing all the time, that's okay. But I'm not. I think Hex and Facebook are two different hobbies with not a ton of overlapping taste. Please don't insist that your hobby be integrated into Hex. I don't have any ill will towards people who want to use Facebook to socialize about this game. I'd just like a bit of buffer room.

Thanks!

blakegrandon
09-05-2013, 09:03 PM
Okay, I suppose at this point this deserves a more verbose answer. The short version is this - I do not want Hex to be a Facebook game.

No one is suggesting that you be able to play Hex ON facebook.


The community shouldn't be on Facebook.

That's like saying there shouldn't be any fan sites, why can't facebook be a large fan site?


More and more games these days require you to connect to social media, either directly (ie, you can't log in without doing so) or indirectly (ie, exclusives or perks given to people who spam their friends with inane crap).

There is a difference between "require" and "enable" when it comes to using social media.



I do not use Facebook, or social media. I don't want to.

That's your choice, that doesn't mean others don't use social media. More power to you for not using it, frankly I feel that social media has it's usefulness.


I want to play a mature and fleshed-out MMO TCG.


Is anyone calling for anything other than a mature and fleshed-out MMO TCG?


If people want to post about Hex on their Facebook page, that's their prerogative.

And it's your prerogative to ignore them. Much like I ignore most fan sites, that's the beauty of the internet. Asking for a game NOT to allow integration is silly, that would be like people advocating against replays or streaming.


But the second this becomes a spam-your-highschool-acquaintances game, there will be one more KS tier up for sale.

Again, that boils down to user error, allowing social media integration has nothing to do with "spamming" your acquaintances.

Facebook is not a gaming community.

What? Since when and according to whom? A lot of my facebook friends are gamers, a lot of what I see in my news feed is gaming related. I'd say I go to Facebook more often than I go to "fan sites" and this way I see MY friend's content, instead of some random that I don't know.


but you don't need to stick an ugly blue button in my face for eternity to do that.

No one is forcing you to use Facebook integration, but it boils down to clearly you have a chip on your shoulder against facebook.


If you're a person who loves Facebook and wants everyone to know what you're doing all the time, that's okay. But I'm not.

So don't use it. No one is FORCING you to use it.


I think Hex and Facebook are two different hobbies with not a ton of overlapping taste. Please don't insist that your hobby be integrated into Hex.

Seriously? That's YOUR opinion, thank god we're still allowed to have our opinions as well, right?


I don't have any ill will towards people who want to use Facebook to socialize about this game. I'd just like a bit of buffer room.


No ill will, yet you don't want people to be able to integrate their Hex gameplay/achievements/what not with facebook, because it affects you how?

I'd love a bit of buffer room too, for people to do what they want with THEIR social media pages, and for people to stop making assumptions about Facebook and how it'll be the downfall of Hex.

I'm responding to you because you're echoing what everyone else is implying, that somehow facebook integration is bad for Hex, when it's anything but bad for Hex. Facebook integration done right leads to more exposure, more people playing, and yes, it will lead to some spam, but no more so than any fansites or community chat leads to.

It boggles my mind that people are against facebook integration when they don't use facebook, it literally has no effect on your life...

Mr.Funsocks
09-05-2013, 09:14 PM
that somehow facebook integration is bad for Hex, when it's anything but bad for Hex. Facebook integration done right leads to more exposure, more people playing, and yes, it will lead to some spam, but no more so than any fansites or community chat leads to.

So seeming like a cheap whore of gaming is not bad for a serious game... hmmm...

Yeah, my opinion of a game goes immediately down when it's whoring out on social media. Not advertising, tweeting about significant events or having a community page on Facebook. Whoring. Because that's what it is, and what it looks like. Desperate, pointless attention-seeking. It's the domain of cheap games with a bigger marketing budget than development budget.

GenghisMike
09-05-2013, 10:33 PM
Not a fan of it, keep it off in a small corner and I can live with that.

keroko
09-05-2013, 10:43 PM
i still think they should do match replays like they do in mtgo but compressed to a 15 second or 6 second instagram / vine output. simple, and its actually a data rich output if you can interpret the video.

i want to know, exactly, what we'll be able to access via any apis they produce on their end into data and automation of operations (hopefully) within the game.

FeelNFine
09-06-2013, 01:05 AM
Alright, I think we've seen there is plenty of resistance to OPs idea, optional or otherwise. Facebook integration does not have to involve a share button of any kind. If we think of integration in reverse, than we could get things like

Friend list importing (Hey, did you know 'insert friend here' plays hex too? Would you like to add them?)
Tournament organization through private rooms (not even facebook exclusive here, being able to export one of them fancy custom tournaments as a time sensitive link would let people make events and groups using facebook or other sites and get people in and organized)

Xenavire
09-06-2013, 03:46 AM
Blakegrandon, there are several regular facebook users here against integration. So I ask that you stop instantly assuming people have chips on their shoulders, or something against facebook - they may dislike the idea for the same reasons that facebook users dislike the idea.

And I would like to add that filtering is possible on the website, but not in any of the apps - if you get spam, too bad, you have to wade through it.

And the idea of implementing social features is just laziness of the target of the feature - I know from experience that it does not take much longer to alt+tab to your browser than it does to press that shiny little button.

There are no additional barriers preventing someone from using social media - if they are too frigging lazy to use it manually, then it wasn't important enough to share.

End of story.

Patrigan
09-06-2013, 04:40 AM
End of story.

Saying "End of Story" does not automatically make it the "End of Story". Please stop posting nonsense like that. It only makes you come of as an arrogant asshole, who doesn't want anyone to disagree with his opinion. That kind of person should seriously not be welcome in any community.

Your other points are fairly weak as well. The current internet environment requires a developer to make everything as easy as possible for EVERY end-user. As a developer, you can't go from the point "if they want this extra thing, they should do it themselves", because when another developer then does what you decided not to, you will likely lose players. You want to give as many end-users as possible the option to do stuff in your game. Not to mention that providing the option gives you way more control over what and how things get shared (since developers can add a default message).

There are plenty of facebook users and even non facebook users that are also for this idea. I guess they understand the potential growth. But it all depends on how it's implemented. The main important point is obviously: "The game should not ask you, it should not disturb any flow." The second point is "you shouldn't get the sharing possibility for every single stupid thing that happened".

So add a just a small button allowing you to share it, that you can click. And only show it on rare events ingame. This will prevent the spamming that so many of you seem to fear.

Take for example the following three examples:

Example 1:
When a player wins (or ends high in) a big tournament he has the option to share it on facebook (bragging) The share could also automatically contain his winnings (lure for other players).

Example 2:
A raider who defeated a difficult raid can opt to make it known. (Bragging) The message will also contain a word about what exactly (so not just I defeated Raid X). This is highly dependent on the difficulty of raids.

Example 3:
Opening a booster you find a Legendary card. You can then share that on facebook (bragging / potential trade with your interested friends). Legendary cards usually have nice effects as well, so it's also a lure for new players.

I only scratched the surface of it. A proper implementation works and it works well. You need to aim to have the same amount of shares as the average website has with its news posts. Speaking of News Posts, that is also something that requires easy sharing mechanisms.

And obviously, the game should not require facebook access. It shouldn't bother you with the share buttons if you haven't linked your facebook account. It shouldn't assume that you want to share anything and everything. This is an optional thing for those that want to use it and I am certain that it will be used often. You might not use it, but don't shoot it down without even properly thinking it through.

Xenavire
09-06-2013, 05:16 AM
Who says I haven't thought it through? It panders to the lazy people, and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.

If something is important enough to share, people will, integration or not. Putting an option into the interface only gives lazy people an easy shortcut, and suddenly everything is 'important' enough to share. Believe me, I have seen it happen enough.

The rest of your arguments are far weaker than mine. For example, developers trying to make everything 'easy to use' is a load of crap. A lot simply don't care, and the product still sells. Microsoft for example, recently had to backpedal enormously because that attitude had caused backlash - and the Xbox One still has plenty of issues that they refuse to budge on. Software devs too - many recent additions to blizzards lineup (diablo 3, hearthstone, new starcraft and wow expansions) and blizzard has shown no interest in pandering to the social media craze. I hear Rift did twitter, so not everyone is ignoring it, but most are, and I can only assume there is a good reason.

The major landmine here is simple. What is considered important enough to share? If you can only share raid wins and tournaments, people will complain until more can be shared, and then it will be every game. People opening booster will want to show off their chests, or their rares, and suddenly every booster can be shared. One epic achievement can be shared, but timmy here wants to share his 'First win' achievement, better allow that too.

This stuff does snowball. And if CZE draws a line, they will alienate those same lazy users that you say they should pander to.

Face it, no matter how you rationalise it, lazy people will end up using it to spam inane crap. That isn't going to make Hex look good.

Feel free to argue now, I will avoid being arrogant (I mean this sincerely, I dont want to be a dick. Make your counterpoints freely, I am not going to get personal about it.)

blakegrandon
09-06-2013, 06:10 AM
Who says I haven't thought it through? It panders to the lazy people, and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.

So why would anyone bother trying to argue? You're saying that facebook integration panders to the lazy people, FFS so does a LOT of stuff. It also panders to people that want to share content, people that have a large circle of friends playing Hex, and people that follow fan sites.

Have you considered for even one minute that most Facebook posts can be hidden by company? Those that don't want to see Hex in their feeds can EASILY block it.




If something is important enough to share, people will, integration or not. Putting an option into the interface only gives lazy people an easy shortcut, and suddenly everything is 'important' enough to share. Believe me, I have seen it happen enough.

If something is important enough to share, there should be tools available to EASILY share it. Again, you're calling people lazy, and are some people lazy? OF COURSE, that does NOT mean the tools are not useful!



For example, developers trying to make everything 'easy to use' is a load of crap. A lot simply don't care, and the product still sells. Microsoft for example, recently had to backpedal enormously because that attitude had caused backlash - and the Xbox One still has plenty of issues that they refuse to budge on. Software devs too - many recent additions to blizzards lineup (diablo 3, hearthstone, new starcraft and wow expansions) and blizzard has shown no interest in pandering to the social media craze. I hear Rift did twitter, so not everyone is ignoring it, but most are, and I can only assume there is a good reason.


Sorry but your logic does NOT work, Rift isn't played because they did twitter, Rift isn't played because the gameplay got severely boring and redundant. You can only close so many rifts before it gets outdated and boring.

Developers that "don't care" might sell a lot of units in the short term, but some people remember and avoid their products in the future. Developers do try to appeal to as many people as possible or they find a niche and stick with it.

What developers should NOT do is pander to a vocal minority and NOT include features just because it might enable "lazy people"


The major landmine here is simple. What is considered important enough to share? If you can only share raid wins and tournaments, people will complain until more can be shared, and then it will be every game. People opening booster will want to show off their chests, or their rares, and suddenly every booster can be shared. One epic achievement can be shared, but timmy here wants to share his 'First win' achievement, better allow that too.


People will always complain, let the people have as many tools as possible, if I want to share "mundane crap" my friends will remove me from their friends list or block the crap I'm sharing.

But here's the news flash, I'm NOT lazy, I WANT facebook integration, and I will NOT share "mundane crap".



This stuff does snowball. And if CZE draws a line, they will alienate those same lazy users that you say they should pander to.

Good old slippery slope arguments and calling people lazy again.




Face it, no matter how you rationalise it, lazy people will end up using it to spam inane crap. That isn't going to make Hex look good.

You really hate lazy people huh? They're paying customers too and there are probably a lot more of them out there than there are of people like you. I find it funny how much you're implying that only lazy people want integration.



Feel free to argue now, I will avoid being arrogant (I mean this sincerely, I dont want to be a dick. Make your counterpoints freely, I am not going to get personal about it.)

Oh, so you're done calling people lazy and being arrogant?

No offense, and not trying to make this personal, but your posts have come off as being a dick, because no matter what we say like you said you're not going to change your mind and you assume that only lazy people want integration.

Like I said earlier in the thread it's user error when it's lazy people using a tool.

Facebook integration is a tool, just like importing friends list is a tool, people that get upset that tools exist for a game that DOES involve Socializing baffle me.

Gorgol
09-06-2013, 07:00 AM
It shouldn't bother you with the share buttons if you haven't linked your facebook account. It shouldn't assume that you want to share anything and everything. This is an optional thing for those that want to use it and I am certain that it will be used often. You might not use it, but don't shoot it down without even properly thinking it through.
So I take it, if we would like to enable this feature, or opt-in, we'd link our facebook account and then when we manage one of your stated examples it would pop up asking if we'd like to share? And otherwise it would not? I could see that. I'd like if there was some kind of limit, for how often one could share so that it wouldn't spam up things, but doesn't seem too bad.

Mr.Funsocks
09-06-2013, 07:15 AM
I really don't get it. Why do you think it makes a game look like anything but a cheap whore when this stuff appears on Facebook? Getting your users to hawk your product in a thinly veiled excuse to let them brag on social media is strictly the domain of cheap games. It screams "I don't have much to offer." It annoys everyone on friends lists with spam on a subject they don't care about, and primes them (Propaganda Effect in psychology - first exposure to something is strongest) to assume it's some cheap Facebook game. It's NOT effective advertising. If it's done particularly well, it maybe could work, but I literally cannot imagine any effective way of sharing something in-game about Hex on Facebook that would work.

Like Hex and want everyone on Facebook to know? Post links to interviews/articles, add it to your interests, push that dumb ol' "like" button that's on the community page, etc. Patrigan, literally none of those examples would, in any way, make me consider playing a game if I saw it on Facebook. They would convince me that that game is a cheap whore of a game, and something to be avoided. Xenavire's right: the share button is for the lazy, and we all know it. And I don't care what someone who's too lazy to say something meaningful thinks. I really don't. No one does.

ossuary
09-06-2013, 07:28 AM
Well, be fair... other lazy people care. ;)

Mr.Funsocks
09-06-2013, 07:57 AM
Well, be fair... other lazy people care. ;)

I'm lazy as hell :-P I don't want other opinions like mine. I've already got mine.

Xenavire
09-06-2013, 08:26 AM
Blakegrandon, you haven't proven me wrong, you simply avoided tackling the issue. Give me some sort of intelligent argument proving that lazy people don't abuse 'Share this on facebook' buttons, yet avoid posting those same things if there is no button, and I will happily change my opinion.

Also, don't bother trying to pick and choose things to comment on - taking things I didn't say for example. I never once said Rift was bad or good, I only said that they integrated twitter. I have no idea how the game plays or how the feature meshes with it, my only point was that there was no trend of big name MMO's using social media to back up your claims. In the same reply you sidestepped a number if examples that have avoided using social media 'because they want to make it easier for their consumers.'

I am trying to be civil here, and don't get me wrong - I doubt the supporters of the idea only want it because they are lazy. However, lazy people would abuse it, and not having the feature would barely inconvenience you, especially if you are used to the lack of it in other games.

Just take the split second to alt+tab, invite your friends manually, etc. It wont kill you.

Patrigan
09-06-2013, 10:54 AM
So I take it, if we would like to enable this feature, or opt-in, we'd link our facebook account and then when we manage one of your stated examples it would pop up asking if we'd like to share? And otherwise it would not? I could see that. I'd like if there was some kind of limit, for how often one could share so that it wouldn't spam up things, but doesn't seem too bad.

I wouldn't even make it pop up for those that do want it. Just a button on the screen when you are notified of the event. For example: the screen with the cards from your opened booster, the victory/loss screen after a match.

The button(s) could look similar like the ones in the top right corner of the Hex main page.

Btw, this will also fix Xenavire his argument about "Lazy" people, because pressing an extra button is nearly the same effort as alt+tab.

I think the real key is that it can only be used in very rare cases. This makes it less spammable and that rare case will likely not be seen by the lazy anyway. (winning a big tournament takes some effort, after all).

Gwaer
09-06-2013, 11:01 AM
I'm very much in favor of Facebook integration. Whatever gets the word out. It can be done more tastefully than it has in the past. Games like candy crush and FarmVille as annoying as they are have crap tons of users. I don't think hex should go that route by any means. But that's not to say there isn't a type of integration that won't serve a good and healthy purpose for the game, and it's players.

Miwa
09-06-2013, 11:03 AM
I'd not care if they add a Post to FB or Twitter button that purely popped up an empty dialog box, and said user would have to *gasp* actually make up the content themselves.

The problem with the "post to X" buttons is that they take way less effort from the poster to post than the readers to have to wade through pages of dreck. Making the poster actually type out what they want to say is a lot better, for a few reasons:

1) The poster may not be able to compose their thoughts into a comprehensible sentences with actual words. When they fail miserably, we can at least get a chuckle.

2) Since it will take longer than .1s to compose, a significant percentage of posters may be deterred.

3) You have to either really care about what happened, or be a spambot to post more than once in a while.

It's a win/win for everyone!

:P

blakegrandon
09-06-2013, 11:12 AM
Blakegrandon, you haven't proven me wrong, you simply avoided tackling the issue.

What's the issue? I don't avoid tackling any issue, I appeal to sensibility which is that lazy people will always exist and that integration is a TOOL, it can be used for good or evil.


Give me some sort of intelligent argument proving that lazy people don't abuse 'Share this on facebook' buttons, yet avoid posting those same things if there is no button, and I will happily change my opinion.

This issue? That's now how arguments work. You should be proving to me that ONLY lazy people will use facebook integration.

Will there be abuse? Absolutely, but that's easy to fix by blocking people from your feed.


B
Also, don't bother trying to pick and choose things to comment on - taking things I didn't say for example. I never once said Rift was bad or good, I only said that they integrated twitter.

You implied the Rift adding twitter somehow is linked to "no one" playing it. I don't pick and choose things to comment on, I actually respond to each sentence/paragraph in a concise manner. You seem to be picking and choosing which points to respond to instead of actually responding. Pot meet kettle.


there was no trend of big name MMO's using social media to back up your claims. In the same reply you sidestepped a number if examples that have avoided using social media 'because they want to make it easier for their consumers.'
What claims? I have NEVER claimed that any games have successfully implemented social media integration.



I am trying to be civil here, and don't get me wrong - I doubt the supporters of the idea only want it because they are lazy. .
Really? Because calling people lazy and implying that people that want this are lazy is pretty far from being civil.


However, lazy people would abuse it
Here's a news flash for you, lazy people will abuse everything, by that logic why bother making Hex at all? Lazy people will abuse it. You can't base a decision to provide a tool based on whether there will be "lazy" users.


and not having the feature would barely inconvenience you, especially if you are used to the lack of it in other games.


It depends on how it's done. If they provide a way to share streaming videos to facebook, not having it would mean lots of extra steps to share content.



Just take the split second to alt+tab, invite your friends manually, etc. It wont kill you.

I don't get why you're so opposed to social media integration? No one is forcing you to look at it, no one is forcing you to share content, it doesn't affect your gaming experience, and it can be easily blocked or hidden from feeds.

But hey, what do I know, clearly I'm just "lazy" and spend time and energy to respond to arguments that amount to the idea that nothing good could come from social media integration.

It's not like having a way to easily share videos of game play on facebook could possibly be anything other than "spam"

Xenavire
09-06-2013, 04:28 PM
I am completely sick of this argument, but let me clear a few things up.

You said 'As a developer, you can't go from the point "if they want this extra thing, they should do it themselves", because when another developer then does what you decided not to, you will likely lose players. You want to give as many end-users as possible the option to do stuff in your game.' I showed examples of this not being completely true (especially concerning social media), and finished with an example of someone doing it (Rift). I did not imply Rift was a failure or success because of Twitter, I simply said they included the feature.

The issue here, is I was not making a point about Rift, I was making a point about developers not sharing your view - they need a product that will sell, and that is nice to interface with. Facebook does not add to either side of that in a meaningful way - and you never offered any evidence of companies doing this (which I would genuinely like to see.)

As for lazy people, enabling them does no-one any good. When you are looking at a a ratio that I feel will be far worse than 6:4 in favour of lazy people, the question arises - is it worth giving this feature that only a small percentage of people would use the correct and responsible way, when they could simply do it themselves with a minimum of effort? The lazy people would just use the shortcut (and no-one here seems to disagree) but unless you can guarantee a large section of the community using the feature the way it was intended, it becomes a waste of time and effort.

As for what Hex has planned for social media, we have Twitch TV coming, and I would not be surprised if they allow linking from Twitch directly to facebook/twitter, and uploading directly to youtube. It also gives the user a lot more control over what they upload, as it is not some automated message - I would see the slightly more time consuming method being far more free and open.

And as I said - I am not going to be easily convinced that lazy people will not abuse it. But if you could prove that intelligent, non-lazy, and/or dedicated people (who would use it for the benefit of the game in some way) would outnumber the lazy people, I would jump on the bandwagon. The problem is, those people tend to blog, use forums, steam, upload on youtube, and share things face to face with friends, rather than posting on facebook.

I am not trying to be a massive jerk about this, but i have thought about it rationally and I feel it would be a massive waste of resources for something that is more likely to negatively impact the game than it is to positively benefit it.

To further my point, check out the number of posts about Hex on facebook compared to the forums, the fansites, the random blogs. Right now, all the facebook shares should be fairly intelligent and coherent, and not spam. Yet for now, they are drastically outnumbered by the other forms of social media. I just see that as a pattern, and it is unlikely to change after launch - all the big shares will be done privately or on fansites.

Rydavim
09-06-2013, 10:02 PM
@blakegrandon & Facebook Fans

I think most of the points I would make have been made, so I'll try to keep this brief.

There are many, many reasons why people would prefer Hex (and well-made games in general, I suspect) avoid pandering to social media users. They've been outlined here, and I agree with most of them.

But there are two questions who's answers lead me to oppose any social media integration:

How else could Hex staff have used that time? The time it takes to integrate social media, including both the implementation and privacy ramifications, could be spent adding content. Time spent dealing with social-media based support could be spent helping someone who can't log in. Especially in Hex's infancy, I want Cryptozoic to be putting 100% into the game experience itself.

How many people will potential expand the community through their own social media content -vs- how many people will do so only if it is automated and integrated for them? I'm hoping that that second number is a whole lot smaller than the first. I think if you enjoy something, you're motivated to share it with other people. I think Hex is much more likely to gain good publicity and exposure from passionate user-created social media content than from integrated "(X) person got (Y) achievement in Hex! Come join them!"

@blakegrandon - You're clearly articulate, and motivated to write about this game. Would it be so bad to use those skills, instead of working within a limited framework (potentially) created by developers?

I am absolutely not against Facebook or Twitter or any other social media use in the interest of expanding the Hex community. I welcome it. But I am adamantly against integrating such things into the user experience of the game. I think everyone here, whether a social-media user or not, is passionate about this game. Please, spread the word however you choose! But it is my personal belief that social media integration would be more of a detriment than is currently being acknowledged by it's acolytes.

But everyone is entitled to their opinions about the pros and cons. Ultimately, it will be Cryptozoic's decision, and I believe they will decline to integrate social media directly into Hex.

EDIT:
Sorry, I guess that wasn't so brief after all...
I will concede that the Cryptozoic forums have been a frustratingly slow-loading discussion community for me as of late, so there is that... Doh!

Gwaer
09-06-2013, 10:09 PM
Your second conclusion is obviously false. More people will click a button than take time to create their own posts. Some passionate people will of course go out of their way to spread the word. But that number is minuscule compared to the casual masses. And though hex has deep roots and tons of depth to discover. Hooking those casuals cannot be underestimated.

Your time usage question really comes down to a cost benefit analysis that neither of us are equipped to do. It's safe to say that I am certain requisite time will be spent on the other aspects of the game whether or not they decide to implement social networking type things.

Stok3d
09-06-2013, 10:38 PM
Even WoW has recruit-a-friend perks. I'm sure Hex will do something and I'm assuming it will be very creative. We'll wait and see I guess.

The_Wine_Gnat
09-07-2013, 12:02 AM
Threads on this forum are similar to driving a car up a short hill, taking a random hard left and falling off a cliff.

Norious
09-07-2013, 05:52 AM
Ugh, sorry for causing such strife - At least this is getting hashed out from the community now, versus you get surprised at launch. (Social plug ins? WTF?) I did find this game through facebook and I have been promoting it through my facebook account. I know many of you guys have worked hard making awesome fan sites more worthy than facebook could ever do. Subscribe to the dedicated sites and promote them is best for all and the game anyway

Xenavire
09-07-2013, 08:02 AM
Most of the fan sites do promote through facebook and twitter, etc, so there is merit in using facebook, but an ingame option would just be redundant and detrimental.

When Hex is hit by the 'facebook gamers' who spam people with invites to things like farmville and link their android/iOS achievments as though people will care (and while some do, it is a minority,) quality posts will be lost in a flood. At most I have seen a small handful of likes on any of those android/iOS posts, and often nothing. It isn't even limited to the things I have mentioned, achievements and trophies from Xbox and PSN get ignored just as often - in fact, I see negative responses like 'Thanks for the spoiler, jerk' more than I ever see 'Oh, that game looks cool.'

Facebook integration may have a useful application for Hex, but I would expect it attached to Twitch, not the game client.

blakegrandon
09-07-2013, 11:48 AM
Most of the fan sites do promote through facebook and twitter, etc, so there is merit in using facebook, but an ingame option would just be redundant and detrimental.


How would it be redundant and inherently detrimental?

I'm pretty sure we're just rehashing the same arguments over and over, but you have yet to actually explain how the tool itself is detrimental.

It comes down to user error, not the tool itself. Allowing fansites and facebook groups/people to upload their videos straight from the game would be a HUGE advantage to Hex.

Rydavim
09-07-2013, 12:49 PM
Your second conclusion is obviously false. More people will click a button than take time to create their own posts. Some passionate people will of course go out of their way to spread the word. But that number is minuscule compared to the casual masses. And though hex has deep roots and tons of depth to discover. Hooking those casuals cannot be underestimated.

I think maybe the guts of my phrasing wasn't clear. What I mean is which of those is likely to lead to gaining more valuable community members. I'm not convinced that auto-generated social posts will lead to positive community growth, whereas I think human-generated content is much more likely to.

As for "hooking the casuals", the problem with that is that casual Hex will be F2P and PvE-only, meaning those people aren't really adding anything to the community IMHO. I don't think Hex will fit the standard MMO model you're talking about in a predictable way. Normally hooking large numbers of casual players benefits the company by providing revenue with little effort. In this case, I would expect a casual Hex-er to be providing next to no revenue. But I guess we'll have to wait and see. :)

Xenavire
09-07-2013, 12:50 PM
How would it be redundant and inherently detrimental?

I'm pretty sure we're just rehashing the same arguments over and over, but you have yet to actually explain how the tool itself is detrimental.

It comes down to user error, not the tool itself. Allowing fansites and facebook groups/people to upload their videos straight from the game would be a HUGE advantage to Hex.

How would it be a large advantage? You know as well as I do that anything integrated tends to be more limited in formatting options, so assuming those people (fansites etc) were intent on using the in-game option, they would likely be sacrificing quality for convenience (not an ideal situation.)

They would also be forced into a single account on facebook - I know several people who use multiple facebook accounts (for example, one attached to a blog, the other for personal use) and being forced to 'share' their own posts rather than have two seperate posts would upset them.

And user error is compounded by ease of access. When thousands of people can post with the press of a button, without any care for quality or content, you get empty posts that simply show off X achievment or Y accomplishment. They would have no substance, little context, and little to explain to strangers why it is important, or why the game is interesting.

I won't deny that there are people who would enjoy and use the feature correctly, but I am personally sure that they are very much in the minority.


Besides, this isn't only a PC and Mac issue. Do we really want the iOS and Android users assuming this is a cheap rush-job game because it has facebook integration? Because a large portion of those games are 'f2p' and are filled with ads, and facebook linking. Social media, due to how it is currently portrayed, actually cheapens the product in the eyes of the consumer.

So, redundant. Simply put, a little user effort makes the feature completely unnecessary. Not to mention the feature may lack the customisation options required for quality posts.

Detrimental? It gives games (tablet ones especially) a bad first impression. It gives those lazy people a chance to spam without any intent to use it constructively. And honestly, it is likely going to be used to show off in a less than friendly manner (inciting flame wars for example.)

So I can count off numerous things that I think would go wrong, and have nearly nothing to counterbalance it with. It would not do enough good to be worthwhile.

And, at a stretch, I could see hackers trying to access peoples accounts by reverse engineering into the client. Any outside links from the client to a website can and likely will be explored by hackers. Remember, they lose nothing by looking for back doors, and if they find them they use them. (Not trying to be an alarmist here, but this lines up closely with peoples fears about modding and add-ons. It is a possibility, regardless of how unlikely.) I might be jumping the gun mentioning it, but it is something I would like to discuss.

zadies
09-07-2013, 08:17 PM
Too be honest its more of something they should implement about six months after launch.
By that point the individuals who would be disturbed by random Facebook posts will have already made a decision on the game and if it is optional and well done the posts would make people who don't follow fan sites and such aware of it.

Patrigan
09-08-2013, 07:54 AM
How would it be a large advantage? You know as well as I do that anything integrated tends to be more limited in formatting options, so assuming those people (fansites etc) were intent on using the in-game option, they would likely be sacrificing quality for convenience (not an ideal situation.)

They would also be forced into a single account on facebook - I know several people who use multiple facebook accounts (for example, one attached to a blog, the other for personal use) and being forced to 'share' their own posts rather than have two seperate posts would upset them.

And user error is compounded by ease of access. When thousands of people can post with the press of a button, without any care for quality or content, you get empty posts that simply show off X achievment or Y accomplishment. They would have no substance, little context, and little to explain to strangers why it is important, or why the game is interesting.

I won't deny that there are people who would enjoy and use the feature correctly, but I am personally sure that they are very much in the minority.


Besides, this isn't only a PC and Mac issue. Do we really want the iOS and Android users assuming this is a cheap rush-job game because it has facebook integration? Because a large portion of those games are 'f2p' and are filled with ads, and facebook linking. Social media, due to how it is currently portrayed, actually cheapens the product in the eyes of the consumer.

So, redundant. Simply put, a little user effort makes the feature completely unnecessary. Not to mention the feature may lack the customisation options required for quality posts.

Detrimental? It gives games (tablet ones especially) a bad first impression. It gives those lazy people a chance to spam without any intent to use it constructively. And honestly, it is likely going to be used to show off in a less than friendly manner (inciting flame wars for example.)

So I can count off numerous things that I think would go wrong, and have nearly nothing to counterbalance it with. It would not do enough good to be worthwhile.

And, at a stretch, I could see hackers trying to access peoples accounts by reverse engineering into the client. Any outside links from the client to a website can and likely will be explored by hackers. Remember, they lose nothing by looking for back doors, and if they find them they use them. (Not trying to be an alarmist here, but this lines up closely with peoples fears about modding and add-ons. It is a possibility, regardless of how unlikely.) I might be jumping the gun mentioning it, but it is something I would like to discuss.

I will attempt one more response to you, but it's already clear to me that you won't listen to it either. You obviously aren't actually thinking about it, you just freak out at the first sighting of the word facebook.

There are no limitations on the sharing through the unity facebook implementation. It gives exactly the same optionsas sharing in your facebook account.

If you have two facebook accounts you have the same issue EVERYWHERE. This is not a limitation to sharing, this is a basic FB limitation. As a side note, owners of a blog/page should hold a higher standard of what they share. If I follow your blog, I want to follow your bog, not what you do personally on a game.

Facebook integration does not equal cheap product. It's all in how it is integrated. My android based mobile allows me to integrate facebook, does that make my android "cheap"? All it does is link accounts and then give you extra options. At no point have I been asked by my android to integrate. I chose to do so. There is no reason at all that Hex can't work on the same approach.

So please, stop thinking that it will function exactly the same as a "Farmville", it shouldn't.

Proper Facebook integration goes way beyond what you are thinking. Even Hextcg.com has facebook integration. We're not talking about making it a Farmville.

As a small side note: The Twitter functionality in Rift has been praised often, it made the game a lot more social and allowed people not playing to stay connected with their friends. Rift didn't steal users from (example) WoW, because the rest was subpar. You'll likely counter this point with "then CZE should focus on have the rest high quality", which, honestly, is utter bollocks. CZE should focus on having EVERYTHING high quality.

But I give up arguing with you now. You simply can't understand that facebook integration goes way above what farmville and the likes do.

Xenavire
09-08-2013, 08:11 AM
Answer me one thing, and I will call it quits. But have you got any examples of a complex facebook integration (that allows the exact same options as the full facebook) that were used properly by the majority?

I have never heard of any. Even facebook itself is filled with lazy half-posts, or 'like for a like' posts. I have a tiny friend list because I choose to avoid those kinds of people, but I still see it happening.

Intelligent posting on facebook is seldom seen, and when people can show off with a single button press, it will get worse.

And to show I do pay attention and don't just cherry pick, I was unaware of how complex Unity could make facebook integration. That alone does not guarantee the end result however, we could still end up with limited options. Just because someone can make something complex and full of options, doesn't mean they automatically will. I would obviously hope for the best version, if they chose to do it.

zadies
09-08-2013, 08:12 AM
I would not say the rest of rift is subpar it was really an issue of timing if both had launched at similar times they would have had similar user bases.

If mtgo copied the interface that will be launching with hex or even made thirds half way decent, hex would have a hell of a time attracting magic fans even if it is a much better game in all outside of the interface.

Patrigan
09-08-2013, 10:58 PM
Answer me one thing, and I will call it quits. But have you got any examples of a complex facebook integration (that allows the exact same options as the full facebook) that were used properly by the majority?


You don't need the same options though. Take for example my previous example:
When a player wins (or ends high in) a big tournament he has the option to share it on facebook (bragging) The share could also automatically contain his winnings (lure for other players).
CZE could create a share button with just a simple text field (like the field of a normal status update) and a link to the hextcg.com website. (instead of to an app in facebook). This will already make it look like it's a share from outside of facebook (which makes it a bit less "cheap").
Then as default text, they can add more than "<Name> defeated Guy X in Hex TCG MMO". Facebook can handle quite a few characters. The default text could be:
"<Name> just finished 1st in a tournament of 33 players on Hex MMO TCG. His total winnings were 1000 Platinum and 10 booster packs!"
Could be a bit different as well, the <name> could be replaced with I making it more personal (and lowering the chance of issues with super long names or something like that).
I would steer away from adding lines like "Come join the fun", those indeed make it look cheaper.

I would also offer the dropdown allowing you to pick where to share it, however, I need to look if this one was possible. If it is, then you can share it on a page you manage, fixing the issue for people who have a page for their blog.

In the end, it should give something like the following share. I think that's a bit too many features but it wouldn't really matter.
Just add the following code snippet to a bookmark, instead of an url, and press the bookmark on any page (if you don't trust the code, then don't do it. It's safe but you shouldn't automatically believe me):

javascript:var d=document,f='http://www.facebook.com/share',l=d.location,e=encodeURIComponent,p='.php?s rc=bm&v=4&i=1237403698&u='+e(l.href)+'&t='+e(d.title);1;try{if (!/^(.*\.)?facebook\.[^.]*$/.test(l.host))throw(0);share_internal_bookmarklet( p)}catch(z) {a=function() {if (!window.open(f+'r'+p,'sharer','toolbar=0,status=0 ,resizable=1,width=626,height=436'))l.href=f+p};if (/Firefox/.test(navigator.userAgent))setTimeout(a,0);else{a( )}}void(0)

Edit: As a small clarification, i haven't worked with the Unity Facebook API myself. However, I have heard good things about it from friends who have. They said it was fairly feature complete.

Patrigan
09-08-2013, 11:42 PM
In a related conversation on IRC, another great use case was offered by someone:

Boardstate screenshot sharing. Let's say you have a 100/100 mushwocky, surely you want to share that? In normal circumstances you would make a screenshot, then go on facebook and post it. With integration, this fun thing, can be done more easily. They just have to make sure that the text added is freeform and a fixed line. I personally see screenshots/photos like that all the time on my facebook wall for other TCGs. It's always a fun conversation that follows it.

Similarly, draft/sealed pool sharing. Let's say I had drafted a specific pool, it would be awesome to share it and get the opinions from others on how I should have build my deck. Or to just rbag with the fact that I pulled multiple legendaries in my pool.

These won't make the game look cheap and are an awesome asset for the more social people.

Edit: yes it would make it easy for the lazy persons, but honestly, I don't care about that. I always delete people who share everything and anything.

Xenavire
09-09-2013, 03:35 AM
Ok, I do see the merit, but nothing you have said takes more than 30 seconds with or without integration. (Unless of course, CZE someday makes a way to have some kind of interactive timestamp of boardatates etc, allowing people from social media to link directly to cards screencapped etc.)

I simply see it as adding a feature to do something you can already do. If CZE could add something to the shares that made them unique enough to make replicating it impossible, then I wouldn't even complain, (my example above, for instance.)

But basic integration isn't worth it from my point of view. Go big, or go home. Make it unique and I change my vote.

Patrigan
09-09-2013, 04:18 AM
Ok, I do see the merit, but nothing you have said takes more than 30 seconds with or without integration. (Unless of course, CZE someday makes a way to have some kind of interactive timestamp of boardatates etc, allowing people from social media to link directly to cards screencapped etc.)

I simply see it as adding a feature to do something you can already do. If CZE could add something to the shares that made them unique enough to make replicating it impossible, then I wouldn't even complain, (my example above, for instance.)

But basic integration isn't worth it from my point of view. Go big, or go home. Make it unique and I change my vote.

Now this is a point that I can get behind. If CZE can make it actually unique, then it's most certainly a great thing.

Xenavire
09-09-2013, 05:08 AM
Well, you inspired me on that point, talking about boardstate. I thought about tagging on facebook, and realised unique features would make it useful, and a unique selling point, pretty much negating a lot of my complaints.

So I have to admit, if done right, integration could be good, but if we use the normal sense of the idea, it would be sub-par and possibly harmful.

We found some middle ground at least, and that pleases me. *Steeples fingers* 'Excellent.'

Lazybum
09-09-2013, 07:09 AM
not going to lie i did not read any of the posts just wanted to post my 2 cents worth for anyone who cares:

played the hearthstone beta and not being able to talk to your opponent was kinda boring, during a mtg game you could, true this isnt mtg but it would be nice to be able to talk to each other even if they didnt want to talk back. you would almost need some sort of in game chat system for raids and a guild chat would be nice too.

edit: then again it helps to actually read the post title before posting lol, i would be against linking my account to facebook or twitter or whatever else for bonus's but wouldnt mind being able to post achieves or what not to facebook if i wanted too.

Miwa
09-09-2013, 04:06 PM
You don't need the same options though. Take for example my previous example:
When a player wins (or ends high in) a big tournament he has the option to share it on facebook (bragging) The share could also automatically contain his winnings (lure for other players).
CZE could create a share button with just a simple text field (like the field of a normal status update) and a link to the hextcg.com website. (instead of to an app in facebook). This will already make it look like it's a share from outside of facebook (which makes it a bit less "cheap").
Then as default text, they can add more than "<Name> defeated Guy X in Hex TCG MMO". Facebook can handle quite a few characters. The default text could be:
"<Name> just finished 1st in a tournament of 33 players on Hex MMO TCG. His total winnings were 1000 Platinum and 10 booster packs!"
Default text means you want to put less effort into writing your post than the poor suckers who have to wade through pages of auto-posts have to spend reading it.

If the post is worth reading, that means the poster had to at least spend the effort to type something. If it's too much work to provide the content, then whatever you wanted to post isn't worth reading either, and therefore shouldn't be posted. Hex can automate getting your text into Facebook, but auto-text = spam.