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RabbitHabbit
09-04-2013, 09:28 PM
I'm just voicing this from a personal opinion try not to freak out and flame me. I honestly can't see myself playing this game because I feel like I would be not only at such a disadvantage compared to those who invested in the kick starter but because the kick starter deals where so good I feel paying normal price would basically be ripping myself off. Even the slacker bundle is a horrible deal compared to what you got if you paid the 50$ from the kick starter, I don't know maybe I'll try playing it from a F2P point of view but might be hard.

Leingod
09-04-2013, 09:36 PM
I missed the kickstarter before I got interested also. And while I am now kick(starting) my ass for missing out on a much better deal, the slacker backer still pays itself off and then some. Especially since alpha hasn't started yet so you wouldn't miss any of that if you backed now. At worst, if you think you'd enjoy the game, it will likely be pretty cheap to get into thanks to the swiss draft reward rates and not having an established price on everything.

RabbitHabbit
09-04-2013, 09:41 PM
I missed the kickstarter before I got interested also. And while I am now kick(starting) my ass for missing out on a much better deal, the slacker backer still pays itself off and then some. Especially since alpha hasn't started yet so you wouldn't miss any of that if you backed now. At worst, if you think you'd enjoy the game, it will likely be pretty cheap to get into thanks to the swiss draft reward rates and not having an established price on everything.

I'm sorry to ask but could you explain this to me further.

TheKraken
09-04-2013, 09:43 PM
I hope you will reconsider, Rabbit. The kickstarter rewards really only give a PvE edge and you'll get a lot of the benefits if you join a guild. The slacker backer gives you alpha access, which is for a couple months and gives you the whole set x 4 so you can start deck building and practicing.

The_Wine_Gnat
09-04-2013, 09:45 PM
So you'll never buy a TV because you missed one awesome Door Buster?

I missed Kickstarter as well. It took me a solid week to get into the Slacker Backer and the community ended up donating cards to the first 200 Slacker Backers. That's what did it for me. That and Alpha.

funktion
09-04-2013, 09:47 PM
I'd only make a few comments.
-If you view the PvE aspect as only a single player game you've got absolutely nothing to lose. It's much more than a single player game and you'd be missing out on a lot of awesome content, but you'd be no further behind than anyone else considering there is nobody else.
-As far as PvP goes, sure there's constructed formats where you bring your own pre-built deck. In those formats you'll be behind people that are already invested in the game (whether they've kickstarted or not)... but...

THIS IS A BIG BUT...

For LIMITED pvp you've also got nothing to lose. In "Limited" pvp, each player is provided the same starting resources (usually packs) everyone going into it is literally on an equal footing (except for individual skill). As it turns out... limited also happens to be one of the funnest ways to play any TCG. Not only is it incredibly fun, it's also a great way to start building a collection while also learning the ins and outs of the game.

Edit: the community for this game is already pretty impressive, just noticed that this is your very first post. I really encourage you to stick around and give the game a chance. You're clearly already at least a little interested since you found the forums and made a post. Can even shoot me a PM if you've got any oddball questions you can't find an answer to.

FeelNFine
09-04-2013, 11:17 PM
See I have the opposite view, I think because of the success of the kickstarter, people over payed. In any TCG, straight up buying and opening packs is the least fiscally advantageous way to be competitive. When you take into account how many set 1 packs are going to be dumped into the market, buying platinum and building your deck from the auction house should not only be easy, but you'll probably pay less than they did.

As previous stated limited formats (Sealed deck and draft) will always be an even playing field.

I could have backed the kickstarter, but I honestly thought it was not a good deal in the long run. As soon as set 2 rolls around, most backers will be right back at your level.

As far as PvE goes, the one player side, sure, others will be able to have an easier time with it or go through it quicker, that shouldn't affect your fun though. The big 'advantage tiers' share their benefits, so if you are in a raid with someone who payed for the raid leader bonus you are getting that advantage without having to pay for it yourself!

HyenaNipples
09-05-2013, 12:26 AM
I feel like this is pertinent: Hex TCG and your Wallet (http://www.utopianchaos.com/hex-tcg-and-your-wallet/)

As others have said: people who have kickstarted and crack open a ton of packs will have a brief advantage in constructed, however this isn't an EVE Online situation where you will never catch up ever ever ever. It's a set of 350 cards, and a much smaller number of that 350 will be the premo constructed format cards. It won't take long to even things out as the ceiling isn't very high.

Additionally, you can spend 7 bucks for a single Limited format tournament and be on the same level as someone who dumped a million dollars on 50 Pro-Regent Champion Raider Baskets.

Kalis
09-05-2013, 12:43 AM
I may be one of the few but to me having better cards that make PvE easier for me is NOT a good thing.

Shadowelf
09-05-2013, 01:07 AM
I'm just voicing this from a personal opinion try not to freak out and flame me. I honestly can't see myself playing this game because I feel like I would be not only at such a disadvantage compared to those who invested in the kick starter but because the kick starter deals where so good I feel paying normal price would basically be ripping myself off. Even the slacker bundle is a horrible deal compared to what you got if you paid the 50$ from the kick starter, I don't know maybe I'll try playing it from a F2P point of view but might be hard.

1)Currently slacker backer is the only guaranteed way of gaining Alpha access

2)Yeah it may not be KS, but still it's a very good offer; starter will be valued at $10 when the game is released, 25 booster at $50 and vip program at $8. So you are getting $68 worth of stuff for just $50. Actually more than $68 if you consider the fact that beta access at KS cost $10 and that vip program offer 4 boosters per month for half the price (68+10+8 =$86 total value)

3)As for KStarter, not much time will pass till they become a minority and after a six months/a year it will be a rare event to run into one. There were around 13k KS backers (http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/08/31/dragoncon-2013-hextcg-pvp-design-panel/), while by the end of July there were already around a thousand slacker backers (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts?page=2 update#39). The potential of this game is into hundreds of thousands....

4)The only real advantage the KStarters will have over you at the beginning, is that they will have a bunch of cards from set1, a disadvantage that can be covered with time playing or money spending. KS unique Pve/pvp cards can be traded or bought from the AH, mercs will only be enhancing your pve experience, but won't be dominating.

I would say give it a try...and even if you don't like it, there are far worse ways of spending $50 ;)

arcar
09-05-2013, 03:00 AM
As a new player without KS too, i fill that as a very good challenge to try to deafeat the highly rewarded KS backers. More challenge = more glory ! So yes i will have less card to start with, i will just have to think more. That's good :)

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-05-2013, 03:04 AM
To be fair, KS is really going to have little impact on the PvP side of things, except for having a lot of boosters to use initially (and having paid a fair amount to get them). While a couple of the AA PvP cards will see play, the best ones aren't KS rewards. If you can do relatively well with on-demand queues you won't spend that much on acquiring cards, and as soon as you have your competitive deck, you're all set.

On the PvE side of things, while there are some nice cards and perks, I'd again say there's not a whole lot that's gamebreaking. They are in no way balancing the game around having the KS perks or cards.

The way I see it - I got into Magic quite late (started with Magic 2010). I couldn't imagine deciding not getting into it because players that came before me already had big collections - I had so much fun with it, and I was able to go from my no-collection beginnings in 2009 to getting the cards I wanted to get at points along the way.

keldrin
09-05-2013, 03:15 AM
I agree, the set 1 cards will likely be fairly cheap, early on, on AH because of people have to much excess.
Buy what you want early though, because as the number of players increases, the ratio of supply and demand should change.

Draft tournaments will be awesome. Definitely a good way to play and be competitive without dumping a ton of cash.

PVE, well, Having access to the extra card is kind of nice. But, the game will be balanced so that they are unnecessary. And may end up not being much of a advantage, other than for the sake of variety.
Mercenaries, having a bunch, to take advantage of them, means leveling them. And, that is likely going to be a bit of a pain. And there will be more mercenaries available. Your main play, will be from your player class. I fully expect it will be the most powerful default to play for most raids and dungeons. So, the main advantage from mercs, will probably be variety.
The kickstarter rewards where great. However, the campaign was so successful, that the rewards are somewhat watered down.
I mean, the statement they made about the lotus garden was there would always be a demand for spectral lotus's because there would be very few lotus gardens. And, it turns out there's over 9,000 from the kickstarter campaign. The rewards just aren't very rare.
Give it some thought. I think the game is worth giving it a shot.

Skirovik
09-05-2013, 05:10 AM
I mean, the statement they made about the lotus garden was there would always be a demand for spectral lotus's because there would be very few lotus gardens. And, it turns out there's over 9,000 from the kickstarter campaign. The rewards just aren't very rare.

To be fair, we're all hoping this game achieves a WoW sized player base i.e. at least several million. If that's the case then 9,000 is super rare.

As far as not playing goes, regardless of the KS rewards or anything, after listening to all the DragonCon panels I could never dream of not playing this game. I have never been this excited for a game in my life! :D

Kami
09-05-2013, 06:31 AM
As you can see in the calculated statistics here (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24831&p=239963&viewfull=1#post239963) (old stats but a good estimate even though we are now over 20k backers with approximately 14k unique backers included in those), there is not too much to be worried about. The numbers are a lot less than most people realize. Not everyone has backed to the highest tiers.

[Note: Please don't post in that stats thread, it is old. ^^; ]

Even if we achieve 1m or 500k users, those numbers are still representative of a small number of players. And considering that at least a good chunk will be merging accounts reducing the number of accounts with 'rewards' even further.

By not playing a game because you are concerned about the rewards, you're really only depriving yourself of a potentially very fun gaming experience.

Lafoote
09-05-2013, 07:13 AM
Further, if you wanted to see a movie, and the family ahead of you gets to see it at half off from Groupon, do you go home? Heck no! My old Chief in the Navy was a total tool, but he frequently used one expression that is apt. "Sally got two suckers, and I only got one."

Look at the entertainment value of your dollars. Are theoretically infinite hours worth the investment? If you enjoy CCG play, it probably will be.

keroko
09-05-2013, 07:16 AM
when set one is out of current pvp block, and fond memory rather than imminent threat from your opponents, you won't care about kickstarter times.

MoikPEI
09-05-2013, 07:52 AM
Wow, 1.6mil Set 1 boosters...
Set 1 will probably be the cheapest to get in on as backers flood the AH to dump their excess commons. Still worthwhile to play early and often. Set 2 and later will likely have no such problem.

felmare
09-05-2013, 08:00 AM
moik pretty much nailed it. There will be so many boosters floating around in beta that no one should not have a 4 of each pretty much.

Xtopher
09-05-2013, 08:10 AM
Participating in the alpha for a few months will go a long ways toward putting you a step above everyone that comes in during beta or later.

Shrennan
09-05-2013, 08:12 AM
Pretty much what everyone else has said is all that can be said, but to add one more thing: The Kickstarter rewards from CZE was nothing short of genius because they are, without a doubt, great rewards BUT they are rewards that do not negatively affect the experience of other players (ie non-backers). The only real exclusives that are offered to KS backers are PVE. That was a reason I backed, it showed me that CZE understood that PVP needed to be balanced and competitive for everyone and the rewards exemplified that train of thought.

RabbitHabbit
09-05-2013, 09:14 AM
So Alpha players will carry over? No wipes?

ossuary
09-05-2013, 09:17 AM
Nobody ever said that.

Alpha players will continue to get to play in Beta, but there will be wipes between the two.

RabbitHabbit
09-05-2013, 09:31 AM
Nobody ever said that.

Alpha players will continue to get to play in Beta, but there will be wipes between the two.

I see, how will real money be handled will it be refunded after each wipe or how will it work.

felmare
09-05-2013, 09:32 AM
real money will work in beta but more than likely no real money in alpha
in alpha u get 4 copies of each card. and pressumably free drafts. therefore after alpha there will be 1 wipe then after wipe beta will start

BongoBong
09-05-2013, 09:33 AM
I see, how will real money be handled will it be refunded after each wipe or how will it work.

You wont be spending any money in the alpha. They are going to give you all the cards and a bunch of platinum so you can test their systems out, but none of it will be yours so there is no reason for a refund.

RabbitHabbit
09-05-2013, 09:40 AM
Oh I see thank you for the quick reply.

Aruken
09-05-2013, 11:51 AM
1)KS unique Pve/pvp cards can be traded or bought from the AH, mercs will only be enhancing your pve experience
PVP unique cards? I knew about pve mercs being distributed at special events for exemple, but I did not know about pvp having special cards like that. Can someone break it down for me by any chance please? Sorry for the newb question.

zadies
09-05-2013, 11:54 AM
There are some alternate art cards where the art is unique not the card itself when relating to PvP.

Diesbudt
09-05-2013, 12:01 PM
PVP unique cards? I knew about pve mercs being distributed at special events for exemple, but I did not know about pvp having special cards like that. Can someone break it down for me by any chance please? Sorry for the newb question.

Exclusive PvP cards are just cards that are an alternate art of a PvP card in rotation. Same card mechanically, just different looks.