PDA

View Full Version : Extra rounds for Draft Losers



loopholist3
09-06-2013, 03:04 PM
I feel like I would prefer the more competitive prize formats for drafting, as it makes me and the other drafters into a "I need to win" mindset. On the other hand, I also feel like that I want more chances to try out my deck if I lose in the first round, because I want to know if I actually drafted poorly or if my opponent just drafted really well. Basically, more rounds means more chances to learn from my mistakes.

So my suggestion is that after each round of a competitive draft, after the losers have been eliminated, the losers then have a chance to play an optional game against each other. These games will be purely for fun and no prizes will be awarded. If an odd number of players accept, it will either give them a chance to play a three player game, or it will automatically deny one player, and give that player a polite "I'm sorry" message.

This will also allow a community of competitive drafters to form where they can relax and play for fun instead of prizes. It might be a community of losers, but it is still a community.

As a side note, it would also be nice if I was able to examine the deck I lost to, potentially being able to see the exact order that player chose their cards, and what cards they chose them over. Does anybody else want a feature like this?

Maphalux
09-06-2013, 03:10 PM
I might be misunderstanding what you are asking for but isn't this what swiss draft does? In swiss you get to play all three matches, win or lose. Swiss drafting will be in HEX.

felmare
09-06-2013, 03:11 PM
isnt this what constructed or limited for? make a deck test it against rands.

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-06-2013, 03:48 PM
Swiss is what you're looking for - 3 matches guaranteed, unless someone drops (and you can't help that - but at least you get an extra pack if they do).

Rycajo
09-06-2013, 03:49 PM
I see your point OP and I think it is a fine idea. Why not allow the losers to continue to play with the drafted decks? This would allow a player who wants to play against truly competitive people (those in the highest paying draft) without being stuck with only one match per attempt.

Xenavire
09-06-2013, 04:48 PM
While I would jump at the chance, MMO's, card games, and sore losers just lead me to believe that people would rather drop and leave you without an opponent.

However, they should let you save the deck and take it to a draft practice arena of some sort (where anyone can test out a 'premade' draft deck, and bone up on their skills.)

HyenaNipples
09-06-2013, 05:01 PM
Yeah, I don't plan on doing much else but play easy-going Swiss drafts for the first few weeks of beta. Going to be tons of fun, and if someone hops off and I get a bye, ill happily pocket my pack and open a book while I wait for the next round.

Facilier
09-06-2013, 05:33 PM
I think this will already be covered with the different formats - swiss for people who want to get X hours out of their draft fee, no matter what and play-till-you-lose for people who want a chance at greatness, without being potentially stuck shackled to a dodgy deck.

Malicus
09-06-2013, 10:00 PM
While I would jump at the chance, MMO's, card games, and sore losers just lead me to believe that people would rather drop and leave you without an opponent.

However, they should let you save the deck and take it to a draft practice arena of some sort (where anyone can test out a 'premade' draft deck, and bone up on their skills.)

This is why I do not want such a feature - people complaining that you didn't stick around to play the meaningless matches in an 8-4 because they wanted to keep playing but chose a single elim format.

Qnight
09-06-2013, 10:03 PM
I will be playing swiss to learn game mechanics and how to draft, at least a few weeks till I get 2 packs consistently.

RandomWitness
09-06-2013, 10:57 PM
I see your point OP and I think it is a fine idea. Why not allow the losers to continue to play with the drafted decks? This would allow a player who wants to play against truly competitive people (those in the highest paying draft) without being stuck with only one match per attempt.

That's the swiss format. It's not any more or less competitive than an 8-4, pros plays swiss every now and then too. These formats already exist, players who want high end rewards can go for an 8-4 and those who want to just play and keep playing can jump into a swiss draft

loopholist3
09-07-2013, 01:19 PM
Swiss is what you're looking for - 3 matches guaranteed, unless someone drops (and you can't help that - but at least you get an extra pack if they do).

I want the swiss draft style of play but not the swiss draft prizes. Basically I think the better players will be in competitive, and therefore if I want to learn to play competitively I need to go there to learn, but if I just get eliminated in the first round, then I have very little opportunity to learn. I agree swiss is perfect for basic mechanics, but what about the more complex mechanics. All you have to do to avoid having people from getting angry from other players not staying, is have the draft members remain anonymous until you actually face them in a match.

loopholist3
09-07-2013, 02:25 PM
That's the swiss format. It's not any more or less competitive than an 8-4, pros plays swiss every now and then too. These formats already exist, players who want high end rewards can go for an 8-4 and those who want to just play and keep playing can jump into a swiss draft

How can you say it swiss format is going to be no less competitive? Every new player who tries to play draft will be doing swiss. You might be able to convince me that the population of good players is the same in all three formats, but not the population percentage. Furthermore, competitive players will be mainly be doing swiss only when they don't want to focus as much, or want to try out different drafting strategies.

To me, swiss format is going to be the equivalent of playing poker with no money backing the game. It is mainly good for teaching people how to play poker. Sure we may use chips, and I still want to win, but I am going to be willing to take a lot more risk.

hex_colin
09-07-2013, 02:43 PM
I hope that I'll be competitive. I'll be doing regular 8-4 drafts most often - likely the strongest competition, and an "all-or-nothing" approach to prizes. It's hard to generalize - there might be more people doing Swiss, but there'll be lots of pods in the other formats too.

Malicus
09-09-2013, 02:38 AM
I hope that I'll be competitive. I'll be doing regular 8-4 drafts most often - likely the strongest competition, and an "all-or-nothing" approach to prizes. It's hard to generalize - there might be more people doing Swiss, but there'll be lots of pods in the other formats too.

My plan is to play swiss until I win one then play top 4 until i get no prizes or win - if i get no prizes back to swiss until i win again and if i win up to 8-4 - here is where it gets complicated - since its only top 2 get prizes and i want to give it a fair shake i will play 3 8-4 drafts and if i haven't won at least 4 matches I will drop down otherwise I will continue until I lose in the first round but if I win or come 2nd I will start the 3 matches again :).

Miwa
09-09-2013, 04:11 PM
I want the swiss draft style of play but not the swiss draft prizes. Basically I think the better players will be in competitive, and therefore if I want to learn to play competitively I need to go there to learn, but if I just get eliminated in the first round, then I have very little opportunity to learn. I agree swiss is perfect for basic mechanics, but what about the more complex mechanics. All you have to do to avoid having people from getting angry from other players not staying, is have the draft members remain anonymous until you actually face them in a match.
The "competitive" players you were hoping to play wont stick around to play worthless matches that have no prize attached. So it wont help at all to do what you think it will. People stick around for their swiss rounds because winning gets you something.

Xtopher
09-09-2013, 04:52 PM
If there's enough people to support multiple queues, a swiss draft queue where you win 1 pack for each round you win 3-2-2-1-1-1-1-0 is a great way to give players a fuller experience.

Puggz
09-09-2013, 05:51 PM
Do you not get to keep the cards you chose in the draft?

Gwaer
09-09-2013, 06:00 PM
Yea, you keep them.

Cazychel
09-10-2013, 06:14 AM
I can see, why you would want to do this. But I think the problem is, what others posted already: The most skilled players will not play for exercise, but for maximum efficiency and thus drop from any draft they can't win anymore and enter another one.

But it would be nice, if you could save your draft deck, show it to others or test it against other draft decks. Thus you can still learn how powerful a card in Limited is. You can test draft strategies in depth with your friends and/or guild mates.

Malicus
09-10-2013, 07:22 AM
I can see, why you would want to do this. But I think the problem is, what others posted already: The most skilled players will not play for exercise, but for maximum efficiency and thus drop from any draft they can't win anymore and enter another one.

But it would be nice, if you could save your draft deck, show it to others or test it against other draft decks. Thus you can still learn how powerful a card in Limited is. You can test draft strategies in depth with your friends and/or guild mates.

This seems far more reasonable - to take it a step further if you could also access the other deck lists from your pod so you could specifically run tests in its natural environment so to speak :) plus it would be nice to see who did the best out of the draft portion.

loopholist3
09-10-2013, 07:31 AM
The "competitive" players you were hoping to play wont stick around to play worthless matches that have no prize attached. So it wont help at all to do what you think it will. People stick around for their swiss rounds because winning gets you something.

If drafts had no cost associated with them I would agree, but with the 1 dollar cost of entry I feel that even the most experienced players will want the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. Now, there is a good chance that your mistake might be easily identifiable, and you will not feel the need to play an additional round, but I don't feel like it will be overly uncommon. There are going to be 4 losers in the first round, and you only need 2 of them to say yes.

loopholist3
09-10-2013, 07:40 AM
This seems far more reasonable - to take it a step further if you could also access the other deck lists from your pod so you could specifically run tests in its natural environment so to speak :) plus it would be nice to see who did the best out of the draft portion.

I think this idea is much more beneficial than mine. An area to test out draft decks would be nice, but then you have to deal with people who are just sitting around and playing with the best draft deck they ever got. The area would also fail to display any actions you took to prevent other players from having strong decks, aka hate drafting. If you instead were able to specificity play against the other players in your pod, and they were controlled by an AI or a friend, then I can see this a being much more beneficial.

Miwa
09-10-2013, 10:37 AM
If drafts had no cost associated with them I would agree, but with the 1 dollar cost of entry I feel that even the most experienced players will want the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. Now, there is a good chance that your mistake might be easily identifiable, and you will not feel the need to play an additional round, but I don't feel like it will be overly uncommon. There are going to be 4 losers in the first round, and you only need 2 of them to say yes.
The ones that stick around aren't going to be the competitive ones you are looking for. Since it's only $1 for a ticket, it's unlikely that even cost is an issue, because if you are good you can just get those tickets from the AH by trading packs and singles for plat. The time wasted playing out worthless games costs more than the entry fee.

zadies
09-10-2013, 10:45 AM
The people who would likely play all games out are going to swiss draft anyway. Those that do the top end 8-4 draft are either rare drafting and want to get back to it or are going to be competitive and have enough faith in self that they will want a new deck asap to try for the win.

Prism
09-11-2013, 02:55 AM
Or you could just join a non-elimination draft.

Gwaer
09-11-2013, 04:02 AM
How about a ladder format that can only be joined after drafting. You join the draft ladder with your drafted deck, and play against other drafted decks to see who has the best draft deck of all time!

I don't actually think this would be as fun as it sounds long term. If the ladder reset every week, maybe. Some people may enjoy this sort of thing. I don't think I would.

Miwa
09-11-2013, 10:53 AM
How about a ladder format that can only be joined after drafting. You join the draft ladder with your drafted deck, and play against other drafted decks to see who has the best draft deck of all time!

I don't actually think this would be as fun as it sounds long term. If the ladder reset every week, maybe. Some people may enjoy this sort of thing. I don't think I would.
Might as well do an Arena Mode like Hearthstone if you were going to do that, just show 5 cards or something, make deck, play, since your deck's construction wouldn't have anything to do with the other decks you were playing against.

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-11-2013, 11:22 AM
The big issue with a one-draft-in-a-ladder/league system is the people that manage to get nuts pools, be it from drafting heaps, or getting in a pod with some sub-par drafters, or what not. As many players will have experienced, if you get a pool with an absurdly high quality level it can be hard to lose.

If it were completely casual in nature though it could be good though. Though I suppose even if it's competitive matches would be based on the ladder/league position, so you'd likely get matched to people with evenly powered decks (but at that point it'd be hard to tell how your deck does against the field - you'd just be finding out how your deck does against other people that drafted just as well as you did).

Gwaer
09-11-2013, 11:39 AM
The nuts decks would inspire a certain subset of players to keep drafting more until they nail that killer deck for the draft ladder though.

I figure it would hit the same market as the people posting their draft decks on the forums already with the 15 briar legions.

I'm not sure it's a good idea. I'm pretty sure I would hate it. But could be entertaining to a not insignificant number of people, and pretty easy to implement.

Could be terrible, too. And ruin the game for all time.

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-11-2013, 11:41 AM
Haha, I don't think it'd be bad; I could just see it running into the same issue as Duels sealed multiplayer - you have a half decent deck, but crumble to a bunch of people that have nutso quality decks.

If there's ranking though, at least you're likely to play against people you have a chance against, but if the OP's looking for a way to test his deck against the field then it won't be achieving that purpose.

Miwa
09-11-2013, 12:29 PM
Or you'd force deck retirement after X wins, like the arena. :P

Xtopher
09-11-2013, 01:06 PM
I really like the idea of a draft ladder, but past experience tells me that players will collude to draft god-like decks. I guess I'd still do it, though, just for fun, if there was no entry fee.