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Aradon
09-09-2013, 04:46 PM
I know we don't have any official rulings yet, but I'm curious to hear what other people would expect on this question.
Dream Dance's second effect tells you to draw a card. Its Cloud Nine Boots tell you to put a card in your graveyard on top of your library. I am wondering at what point you put that card on top of your library. Most notably- is it in time to draw with that spell?

What I imagine happening is that Cloud Nine Boots' ability is merged onto the text of the card. Probably as the last line of the card? In which case, you would draw your card, then put a card from your graveyard on top of your library. That's just speculation, though.

The abilities of equipment seemed tailored specifically to play well with the card. Do you think CZE would engineer this piece of equipment so that you are actually drawing the card you put on top instead?

HyenaNipples
09-12-2013, 03:34 AM
Potentially. PVE isn't designed to be balanced as we understand the term, so allowing you to effectively draw any card you want from your graveyard seems on par with other examples of PVE Gear.

Falaris
09-12-2013, 10:28 AM
Theyre probably both triggered abilities at the same time, meaning you'll get to choose the order.

RECHiD
09-12-2013, 07:00 PM
We don't know for sure, but I bet you draw the card you put on top. Since the Boots' ability would make a player WANT to draw the card they chose to put on top, the dev team would likely make it work that way.

Since the game is all digital, the design team has a huge amount of freedom to adjust special cases like what we see on this particular card and equipment combination. They can fine tune and adjust every card how they want. :D

Aradon
09-13-2013, 06:55 AM
Thanks for the input, guys!

Falaris, we know for sure that 'draw a card' is going to be an effect tied to the resolution of the spell, not a triggered ability. I don't know if the equipment effect is going to be a triggered ability, but I have my doubts about it. That's how I originally conceived of it happening, but if they're adding the equipment effect right onto the card (as some constants equipments have done), then I would expect the effect to be inserted into the spell text itself.

RECHiD, that's basically how I'm hoping the team handles it :D

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-17-2013, 09:32 PM
I'm going with we don't know for sure, so it could be either way. I honestly couldn't say which way I think it'll go - on the one hand, it feels like the intent is to grab a card out of your graveyard with it, thus the card getting put on top would be first. On the other, it's much more balanced to have the card put on top after the draw.

Essentially, when we gain access to PvE (I believe we'll be getting the arena mode relatively early in the beta) it's something we should test out, along with a bunch of other unclear interactions.

chansen005
09-18-2013, 08:01 PM
im betting they dont care, and if you have a dreamdance in the graveyard and 1 in your hand you can chain them indefinatly. the thing is though, unlike in magic, cory has said they wont make any cards casting cost go down to 0, it will always be 1, meaning you arnt really gaining much from this process, pay 1 to make all cards cost 1 less.... it's whatever, asside from if you have wrenlock on board and are drawing 2 cards every time u play dreamdance

Falaris
09-18-2013, 10:19 PM
im betting they dont care, and if you have a dreamdance in the graveyard and 1 in your hand you can chain them indefinatly. the thing is though, unlike in magic, cory has said they wont make any cards casting cost go down to 0, it will always be 1, meaning you arnt really gaining much from this process, pay 1 to make all cards cost 1 less.... it's whatever, asside from if you have wrenlock on board and are drawing 2 cards every time u play dreamdance

Could someone provide a link to Cory saying cards won't cost less than 1? I know the Gencon matches are far from a final product, but you could definitely reduce cards to zero cost there.

Cazychel
09-19-2013, 12:32 AM
Could someone provide a link to Cory saying cards won't cost less than 1? I know the Gencon matches are far from a final product, but you could definitely reduce cards to zero cost there.

This is definitely something Cory said; to prevent "degenerate combos". I have heard it multiple times in different interviews, but don't have a quote right at hand. One card has that wording in place, at least, "Archmage Wrenlocke (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Archmage-Wrenlocke/184)".

The argument was, that while overpowered and strong combos are okay for PVE, they wouldn't have endless, zero-cost combos that break the game completely, which Cory called "degenerate combos".

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-19-2013, 01:48 AM
Yes, but then in a later video they - I believe Ben - said some card costs would get reduced to 0. It all depends on the card doing the cost reduction.

Until the game comes out, it's not official, but given that Technical Genius didn't have the Wrenlocke wording at Gen Con and could reduce costs to 0 I'm going with costs still being reducible to 0.

Aradon
09-19-2013, 03:33 AM
Cory said they wouldn't go down to zero in an interview, but later it was clarified that they had two philosophies on the matter. They would have cards that could reduce costs to 0 that usually dealt with specific cards, such as "Return target card from graveyard to hand, its cost becomes 0" and there would be cards that generally reduce costs, such as Archmage Wrenlocke that would not reduce to 0 for balance reasons. While dream dance looks like it belongs to the second category, Wrenlocke clearly states that it won't reduce to 0, while Dream Dance doesn't. There isn't going to be a rule about this in the comprehensive rule book, so it will have to say so on the card.

I feel like every time I ever mention dream dance, someone tries to tell me that it doesn't reduce to zero.

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-19-2013, 05:45 AM
Pretty much, given the Ben interview and Technical Genius (the latest copy of which was shown at Gencon, and in the Gen Con spoilers article on Aug 2), costs/payments will either be able to reduce to 0, or there will be a rule that explicitly says they can't. Otherwise, I can't think of a good reason they wouldn't have updated the TG text to say "this can't reduce costs to 0" like Wrenlocke has.

http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/TechnicalGenius.png

Beyond that, even more recently, Infernal Professor also gives a cost reduction and doesn't mention anything about not being able to reduce to 0. The card was spoiled at PAX and put up on the website in their article on Sept 6th.

http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/InfernalProfessor-215x300.png

I'm not saying it's impossible. I just feel it's unlikely. And I think a card being able to reduce to 0 is a good thing, as long as enough balance is considered.