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nrflorencio
09-10-2013, 09:59 AM
Greetings.

About how much do you think the primal packs are gonna be worth in the AH?

If (lets imagine) a normal booster is worth 1,5 dollars (again, just making numbers up...) and as mentioned before, the only card with any real value is the rare/legendary... You guys think that will make the primal packs worth 22,5 bucks?

Any educated guesses?

Cheers all.

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-10-2013, 10:11 AM
Not factoring in chests (it's very difficult at this point to work out how much they'll be worth), but a normal booster should sell for a little more than the average value of the rare slot (as if it sells for equal to or less than the rare slot, then there's no profit in selling them rather than opening them). Extrapolated, the primal booster should sell for about 15 times the average value of the rare slot, boosted a little bit to actually allow for profit (plus, if I'm not mistaken primal chests have better loot than normal chests, so if we do consider those the price boost may be even more significant).

The price of a primal will be much more volatile than that of a normal booster, so keep that in mind when evaluating potential prices.

MoikPEI
09-10-2013, 10:14 AM
Based on the prices of Unidentified Dye/Unidentified Grey Dye (Rare) as compared to the value of their drops (Abyss, Celestial, etc) in GW2.
I expect Primals to be about 1/10th the price of the chasiest Legendaries, and 5x the price of regular Boosters.

zadies
09-10-2013, 10:36 AM
There are a few other factors that will influence primal prices.

If you are guaranteed not to get duplicates in them for example it makes them even better get getting chase cards then if they do allow duplicates for example.

The_Wine_Gnat
09-10-2013, 11:12 AM
A bit new, but what are Primal Packs exactly? I thought there was only regular packs you opened which contain one rare.

MoikPEI
09-10-2013, 11:16 AM
Primals are a 15 card booster that's all Rares and Legendaries.
Buying a booster from CZE has a random chance to be Primal.

Xenavire
09-10-2013, 11:17 AM
A bit new, but what are Primal Packs exactly? I thought there was only regular packs you opened which contain one rare.

They rarely replace standard bonuses - like an epic pack, filled with rares, that you get instead of a normal boosters.

But we don't know the drop rate. It is likely to be very low.

And they aren't just bought boosters, prize boosters can also, but not AH boosters.

The_Wine_Gnat
09-10-2013, 11:25 AM
Thanks for the info! I have a couple more questions if you have the answers. :)

1.) Will there be a chance of drafting a Primal pack? By this I mean when Swiss drafting, is there a chance that one of the packs everyone is drafting from will be a Primal?
2.) If you win packs from the draft, could one of the packs you win also be Primal?
3.) Will you know before opening a pack if its Primal or regular?
4.) Are all packs 15 cards? (I should know this, but can't recall right now).

Daer
09-10-2013, 11:32 AM
1. No.
2. Yes.
3. Yes, it will have a different wrapper.
4. Yes.

Deathfog
09-10-2013, 10:05 PM
Probably about 14.4 times the average daily value of a non-primal pack. Really depends on the value gap between uncommon and rares across the set and distribution. If Primals have some sort of bonus to legendaries, existing math isn't sufficient to model this.

Gwaer
09-10-2013, 10:10 PM
To reiterate what Jax said, the chests I think are going to be a huge factor in this. Primal chests might be one of the most valuable PVE related items, if there's a chance for legendary equipment, as well as some mercs and whatnot that can only be obtained from chests you might end up seeing a significant price boost from that alone.

Mikial
09-11-2013, 05:50 AM
I am not sure if this was addressed before, but do the Kickstarter packs have a chance to be primal. I am speaking of the packs aside from the bonus primal pack that was awarded because of the stretch goals.

Shadowelf
09-11-2013, 05:53 AM
I am not sure if this was addressed before, but do the Kickstarter packs have a chance to be primal. I am speaking of the packs aside from the bonus primal pack that was awarded because of the stretch goals.

Yeap definately :)

Here is the link (yeah late i know but this seemed too obvious for me to take notes :) )


From all those booster packs we are getting on the pledge, there are any random chance to get more Primal Boosters once we open them?
Yes, the boosters you get from your pledge have a chance of being Primal Packs.



http://hextcg.gamepedia.com/FAQ

Xenavire
09-11-2013, 05:55 AM
All kickstarter/slacker backer packs are generated like all other packs, so yes they have a chance to be primals.

Mikial
09-11-2013, 05:58 AM
That makes me even more excited for this to start! And I didn't think it possible.

Mahes
09-11-2013, 07:45 AM
I would say that for this block, a primal might be worth 5x a normal pack. I say this because there will be so many cards for this block and this block will last for such a long time that not to many players will care to bother with primals as much. Unlike the game of magic, there will not be broke cards like the black lotus or moxes that drive a price to the moon of a first set card. They will just fix/change any card overly powerful. The chest does indeed make a large difference and ends up being the unknown variable beyond chance of getting a primal.

The 2nd block is different. Less time and packs and so I could see the primals being worth a lot more for that block.

Magic the gathering was a nice one time event. It is scary and strange to know what an unopened box of alpha/beta would cost. Hard to believe that I could purchase a brand new GT Mustang for that box.

deathandtexas
09-11-2013, 08:08 AM
I would say that for this block, a primal might be worth 5x a normal pack. I say this because there will be so many cards for this block and this block will last for such a long time that not to many players will care to bother with primals as much. Unlike the game of magic, there will not be broke cards like the black lotus or moxes that drive a price to the moon of a first set card. They will just fix/change any card overly powerful. The chest does indeed make a large difference and ends up being the unknown variable beyond chance of getting a primal.

The 2nd block is different. Less time and packs and so I could see the primals being worth a lot more for that block.

Magic the gathering was a nice one time event. It is scary and strange to know what an unopened box of alpha/beta would cost. Hard to believe that I could purchase a brand new GT Mustang for that box.

When black lotus and moxes were initially released they weren't considered "broken." Also, CZE has stated they won't change cards that turn out to be more powerful than anticipated after release, they will just ban them from tournaments. This way people can't spend a bunch of cash on cards just to have them nerfed shortly thereafter.

vulture27
09-11-2013, 08:24 AM
When black lotus and moxes were initially released they weren't considered "broken." Also, CZE has stated they won't change cards that turn out to be more powerful than anticipated after release, they will just ban them from tournaments. This way people can't spend a bunch of cash on cards just to have them nerfed shortly thereafter.

^This.

CZE clearly know enough about Magic to not make direct reprints of the "power nine." However, there are always going to be cards that get printed which turn into broken combo pieces over time. Will set one have a bunch? Hard to say.

Yoss
09-11-2013, 09:24 AM
I would say that for this block, a primal might be worth 5x a normal pack. I say this because there will be so many cards for this block and this block will last for such a long time that not to many players will care to bother with primals as much.
Why would the multiplier be different for Set 1? I agree that Set 1 will probably be lower price, but that's true of all the Set 1 stuff (basic boosters, primal boosters, and individual cards). The multiplier should be the same, maybe between 10x and 15x the price of a basic booster. I doubt it will be 15x unless the chest ends up as a big factor, because you can't (or wouldn't) use primal packs for draft entry. Now, if they end up having Primal Drafts once per Set, things could get crazy in the market.

Unhurtable
09-11-2013, 10:08 AM
When black lotus and moxes were initially released they weren't considered "broken." Also, CZE has stated they won't change cards that turn out to be more powerful than anticipated after release, they will just ban them from tournaments. This way people can't spend a bunch of cash on cards just to have them nerfed shortly thereafter.

They actually announced this? I must have missed it. Care to give a source or at least point towards where the announcement was made?

nicosharp
09-11-2013, 10:10 AM
Now, if they end up having Primal Drafts once per Set, things could get crazy in the market.

There is no incentive for CZE to think about this.
#1 - They do not balance draft around Rare and Legendary cards.
#2 - The limited card pool would provide very stale gameplay.

Much more likely to see some form of limited edition phantom "Cube" Drafts, maybe 3 to 6 sets in.

Yoss
09-11-2013, 10:13 AM
They actually announced this? I must have missed it. Care to give a source or at least point towards where the announcement was made?
I don't remember the source (I'm sure ShadowElf does), but I do remember them saying they will ban rather than nerf.

Yoss
09-11-2013, 10:17 AM
There is no incentive for CZE to think about this.
#1 - They do not balance draft around Rare and Legendary cards.
#2 - The limited card pool would provide very stale gameplay.

Much more likely to see some form of limited edition phantom "Cube" Drafts, maybe 3 to 6 sets in.
Since it would only be once per Set, I'm not seeing the problem about it being unbalanced. It would be a kind of "last hurrah" for a given set before the next one comes out. I think it would create quite a bit of buzz, so there's the CZE incentive. In their advertising they can make it quite clear that it might be a little wacky since you won't have Murder to kill all those fatties that are dropping.

Shadowelf
09-11-2013, 10:53 AM
I don't remember the source (I'm sure ShadowElf does), but I do remember them saying they will ban rather than nerf.

Here is it Yoss

http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/08/31/dragoncon-2013-hextcg-pvp-design-panel/ check 0:39:05

Also Ben Stoll on this in this article http://hexmusings.wordpress.com/2013/08/25/designer-interview-part-2/

Unhurtable
09-11-2013, 11:42 AM
Here is it Yoss

http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/08/31/dragoncon-2013-hextcg-pvp-design-panel/ check 0:39:05

Also Ben Stoll on this in this article http://hexmusings.wordpress.com/2013/08/25/designer-interview-part-2/

Glad they took a stance on this.

MoikPEI
09-11-2013, 12:06 PM
I'm pretty sure Master Beastrider -> Nelebrin Scout is how they're going to handle what would be nerfs.
Ban out the offending card, replace with new card with new name and art which fills the same role but is more balanced.

Malicus
09-11-2013, 01:46 PM
Why would the multiplier be different for Set 1? I agree that Set 1 will probably be lower price, but that's true of all the Set 1 stuff (basic boosters, primal boosters, and individual cards). The multiplier should be the same, maybe between 10x and 15x the price of a basic booster. I doubt it will be 15x unless the chest ends up as a big factor, because you can't (or wouldn't) use primal packs for draft entry. Now, if they end up having Primal Drafts once per Set, things could get crazy in the market.

I can see the multiplier being a little lower for set 1 due to chase rare value having a larger impact on the value of a primal vs the value of a booster since a primal doesn't facilitate drafting which should keep the price of boosters from falling too low, not by a large variance but the initial card pool while overstated by some is probably going to be greater on a per player basis than subsequent releases driving down rare prices for set 1.

To clarify I think you can express Primals as a multiplier of boosters but their prices do not directly correlate because they do not serve all the same needs.

ossuary
09-11-2013, 08:01 PM
When black lotus and moxes were initially released they weren't considered "broken."

You have no idea how true this is. Personally, I started playing during Antiquities, but several of my friends started playing earlier (one of them missed Alpha by less than a week). Several people in our group had a LOT of beta and unlimited cards. A couple of them actually used unlimited moxes as card dividers, before any of us really understood how good they were or what they would become. Ah, youth. :p