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Clortbags
09-16-2013, 10:04 AM
Hi there

Just found out about this game a couple of days ago and it seems to be more like something I can really get immersed in vs the quick & casual fun of Hearthstone, I've been doing a fair bit of reading and watching videos but I'm still a little confused as to how PvP works

Does anyone know how much it's going to cost to play PvP in HEX and how this business model is structured?

Will there be tokens that need to be purchased to enter tournaments or is the PvP side of things subscription based?

Can I play standard PvP matches free and it only costs real money to purchase additional PvP cards?

Showsni
09-16-2013, 10:12 AM
I'm sure someone will jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but currently my understanding is this:

To obtain cards for PvP will require you to either buy boosters or buy them in the auction house. Boosters cost real world money, but auction house items can be bought for in game currency, which can be earnt by selling PvE cards/equips in the auction house; and PvE is free to play. So, theoretically you could make a decent PvP deck for free by doing well in PvE and then selling your loot.

I believe general friendly PvP matches will be free to enter.

Entering PvP tournaments (i.e. ones with prize support) will cost money; but again, maybe you can buy the entry in the AH?

ossuary
09-16-2013, 10:15 AM
Hello and welcome. :)

The business model for the game is that CZE (Cryptozoic Entertainment) will be selling starter decks ($10), booster packs of 15 cards ($2), and tournament entry fees. For draft tournaments, you can either buy 3 packs from CZE directly or bring your own that you have already purchased or won, plus an additional $1 entry fee to play. Prizes are expected to be the same or very similar to other existing TCG tournaments, e.g. top 4 get packs as prizes. There will also be a constructed tournament format, where the expected entry fee is $3 (not confirmed yet), with similar prizes.

In addition to the tournament PVP, there will also be casual PVP against friends / guildmates / random people, which will be free (other than needing cards to build your decks with).

Also, on top of all that, there will also be an entire MMO-style PVE portion of the game at full launch, which will include dungeons and raids, and a whole new set of PVE-only cards that you can earn by going through the dungeons and story quests. That entire side of the game will be free to play, though any PVP cards / packs you do buy can also be used to build your decks on that side of the game.

There will also be an auction house where you can buy and sell cards and other in-game goods to help you turn the cards you have into the cards you want. :)

Oh, and there will be no subscription fees for any of this, but there is an optional VIP program which is $4 a month, gets you 1 booster pack per week (so basically $1 per pack), entry into an exclusive VIP-only monthly tournament, and a couple of other account features.

Yubar
09-16-2013, 10:26 AM
So it really depends. Normally people would say start off by doing drafts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_formats#Booster_Draft) (which cost 3 boosters + $1 entry fee = $7 max and you get to keep your drafted cards and any prizes) However if you do get into the beta you might as well just get what you want from the Auction House imo, since Set 1 will most likely be the cheapest set ever because of how many KS packs were given out.

So that means cards will be cheap and packs will be cheap (maybe $1ish) so that means you could possibly get into drafts for $4, which will get you 3 packs worth of drafted cards and any prize money. Probably do this along with some Auction House purchases until you get your desired deck(s)

There is also a VIP program which grants you a pack a week at basically $1 a week, use these for draft entry.

So once you've gotten a deck you want from drafts and from the auction house you can build a deck for constructed tournies.

Constructed pvp tournaments in which you bring your own deck will be $1 entry for the most part, but I assume you can play for fun (or tourney practice) for free once you've bought your deck.

Ofcourse PvE will be like a story mode a will be f2p..ofcourse I'm sure they'll have options to pump some money in

Clortbags
09-16-2013, 10:28 AM
Hi guys

Thanks for the clarification on the business model that makes things a lot clearer!

The whole MMO aspect sounds like it'll be really awesome, I presume some of the PvE content, dungeons, raids etc is multi-player (friends, guild, randoms) vs the environment?

Niedar
09-16-2013, 10:30 AM
There is both single player content and multiplayer content (raids) yes as well as guilds.

Yubar
09-16-2013, 10:31 AM
Yes your can play with two other friends to tackle a dungeon (a raid I believe its called) and its free!

Clortbags
09-16-2013, 10:36 AM
Sweet...

Sounds like the Slacker Backer pack and VIP program will be a great way to get started since I missed the Kickstarter!

butznutz
09-16-2013, 10:42 AM
Yep the slacker Backer deal is great bang for the buck

Gulbech
09-16-2013, 10:57 AM
Another thing to concider, is what level of competition you want to play. If you like more casual pvp, with funny combos and not only top tier cards, I am pretty sure you can buy an ok deck from the action house very cheap, maybe a couple of dollars.
Normally it is only the 10-20% of the best cards, that us worth anything, the rest you can easily buy.

jetah
09-16-2013, 05:11 PM
You could get the Slacker Backer for 50$ which has about 85$ worth of cards.

plus what everyone else said!

http://hextcg.com/donate/

Urimagination
09-16-2013, 07:01 PM
Wonder how much it will cost to get collect the 1st set of this game.

Niedar
09-16-2013, 07:12 PM
On http://www.mtgotraders.com/store/complete_sets.html m14 set is 88 dollars. Now this is only 1x of every card so 4x of every card would be 352 dollars.

So hex costs for boosters, tournaments etc is exactly half the price of mtgo so if we say the price of individual cards will also be half that makes it 176 dollars. Now we have to reduce the markup that the site is getting for selling you the set, the effect that set redemption to paper magic cards has on increasing the cost of singles and the reduced value of set 1 due to the kickstarter.

I would easily say 4x of every cards in set 1 could be less than 150 dollars and potentially much less than that.

Aradon
09-16-2013, 07:43 PM
I don't know if I'd trust those prices. They're advertising a whole set of worldwake for 90 dollars? Jace himself is 120, not to mention the rest of the set. Unless something weird's going on in MtGO, they're pretty clearly out of date.

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-16-2013, 08:08 PM
Also keep in mind that Set1 will have ~350 cards, so at least 100 more cards than M14, not to mention that M14 contains 20 basic lands and I don't believe Hex is including shards as part of the set. So even with the flat like-to-like evaluation, it needs to be modified by set size.

Niedar
09-16-2013, 08:29 PM
Yeah, that is true I didn't think of the set size difference.

zadies
09-16-2013, 09:23 PM
Don't think the have price your thinking of is the m14 jace
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Jace,%20Memory%20Adept

Malicus
09-17-2013, 01:50 AM
Don't think the have price your thinking of is the m14 jace
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Jace,%20Memory%20Adept

No he was saying since the mind scupltor is in worldwake which they price below him their entire site is questionable. They sell pears for the wrong price so their oranges price may be wrong too :).

Keznath
09-17-2013, 03:10 AM
At this time, have we some news about the possibility to convert platinum for real money ?

ossuary
09-17-2013, 04:10 AM
At this time, have we some news about the possibility to convert platinum for real money ?

Nothing official, except that Cory has said in the past he would like there to be a way, but it's complicated to deal with the legal ramifications and will take time. So take that to mean it won't be available at launch, but may be at some point in the future.

Umaro
09-17-2013, 10:34 AM
The thing about price-pointing in TCGs is that it is very subjective. Some people build expensive decks because they feel they get a lot of value out of the powerhouse cards, but cheap decks can still be viable and profitable. Others start with as little as possible and see how far they can stretch their luck (Read: FNM Hero).

As an example, google "Building on a Budget MTG" for some blog articles on building cheap, competitive decks. I've seen some solid MTGO deck lists for as low as $20-30 that hold up for a couple sets, then might need some minor changes. In most cases like this, some extra money for powerhouse cards would help improve the deck, but that takes away from the "budget". I can already see this being viable in Hex, since the racial archetype decks are looking pretty solid and supported. A Shin'hare deck, for example, could be pieced together for close to nothing, and improved upon over time. Same with Orcs, and possibly Dwarfs.

One could spend as much or as little as they wanted in building a solid PVP deck, and then rely on tournament winnings/earnings to fund future tournament entries. It just depends on what one wants to achieve, and how fast they want to achieve it.

Gwaer
09-17-2013, 10:44 AM
In theory one could earn plat and PVP cards from selling PVE goods to build a solid PVP deck, and then snowball their winnings to buy more PVP stuff, never paying a dime. That's as f2p as it gets.

The_Wine_Gnat
09-17-2013, 10:50 AM
In theory one could earn plat and PVP cards from selling PVE goods to build a solid PVP deck, and then snowball their winnings to buy more PVP stuff, never paying a dime. That's as f2p as it gets.

While I plan to buy Plat, I really hope what you mentioned will prove true. It will be good for the game and community in general (oh, and my wallet).

Umaro
09-17-2013, 10:53 AM
In theory one could earn plat and PVP cards from selling PVE goods to build a solid PVP deck, and then snowball their winnings to buy more PVP stuff, never paying a dime. That's as f2p as it gets.

A little thread spill-over there, Gwaer? :)

Gwaer
09-17-2013, 10:56 AM
Too many threads on basically the same topics. Things are bound to get repeated. =P

Umaro
09-17-2013, 11:12 AM
Too many threads on basically the same topics. Things are bound to get repeated. =P

That's exactly why I'm so intrigued by Shadowelf's efforts here. He's so on top of answering questions with in-depth responses that even after compiling a pretty comprehensive FAQ, he answers a lot of the same (or similar) questions manually very often.

ossuary
09-17-2013, 11:23 AM
Some of us "old folks" (from before the kickstarter ended or even sooner) know the answers like the back of our hand by this point... but I freely admit Shadowelf is WAY better at having the documentation to back himself up. :)

I imagine Shadowelf waking up from a dream in the middle of the night with a start, muttering, "...tournament costs! check 35:18..." ;)

Speaking about budget decks, it's a completely viable option. Hell, even the best constructed decks in legacy MtG can still be given a run for their money by a simple but well designed discard deck with dark rituals, hymn to tourachs, and hypnotic spectres... and you can make one of those for less than $10 if you don't put any extra bombs in it.

Dynark
09-17-2013, 01:06 PM
I guess there are just some burning questions that need to be repeated over and over.

Like "Kickstarter Backer get special cards, other will never have, but they will only be PvE and every one who starts can go full competitive with no disadvantages" (except of course some boni through more cards/free Drafts that can be compensated)
And of course "PvP is ok to play without extraorbitary moneyinvestment and maybe even with tournamentprizes"

ossuary
09-17-2013, 01:25 PM
Boni is not a word. It's "bonuses." :)

Dynark
09-17-2013, 01:30 PM
Damn, I feel so stupid now
edit:
Actually, I am german ... and we have three legal plural forms for bonus: Bonus, Bonusse and Boni. (as the "duden" says, the "bible" of the german language)
So ... I was confused, thought you might use boni since it is kinda the latin form.
But I heard a German podcast right now for 20 minutes about exactly "what is the right way to build the plural of bonus".
Now I know: The word is not even latin. It was "created" in english, so boni is even in German "wrong", I just always liked the sound more than "Bonusse":-D.

I still feel a little bit stupid, but not as much ;-)

mudkip
09-17-2013, 01:38 PM
I like "boni".

ossuary
09-17-2013, 01:43 PM
Some people used to try to use "boni" on the Discworld MUD forums to sound smart, or as some sort of dumb joke. Then some people who were not native English speakers got it into their heads that that was the correct usage, and it stuck around on the boards for YEARS. It was super aggravating.

Aradon
09-17-2013, 01:48 PM
I like "boni".

I herd u leik something else.

Malicus
09-18-2013, 06:19 AM
I herd u leik something else.

That made me a little happy :)