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Xtopher
09-17-2013, 04:15 PM
Got an e-mail about the above subject today from Blizzard. It says it's because of unwanted player behavior, but I wonder if that's the only issue or if there's a legal snag. I typically don't believe corporate-speak in these types of announcements.

Anyway, I'm wondering if there's been any change in what CZE has planned for their AH.

Icepick
09-17-2013, 04:17 PM
If there were any possible legal issues, they wouldn't have gone ahead with it to start with. Activision is a big company, and not fond of taking those kinds of risks.
"Player behaviour" is easy to believe, but it's not exactly what they mean. As I understand it (I don't actually play Diablo), the AH basically ruined the game since almost all drops became completely pointless wastes of time. The "Player behaviour" they are likely bothered by is the fact that people are actually *using* the auction house at all.

Umaro
09-17-2013, 04:21 PM
If they're referring to the Gold AH, then I believe it's because a few months back, there was a bug on the gold AH that allowed people to duplicate gold through some fairly simple process. I wasn't playing at the time and only heard about it a few weeks ago, but this would be my guess.

If they're referring to the RMAH, then I have no idea.

blakegrandon
09-17-2013, 04:23 PM
I found the auction house was the only way you could actually play the game... Grinding for hundreds of hours just to get RNG Screwed and never get any usable gear was annoying.

Blizzard missed the point of WHY people were using the Auction House.... It's like getting rid of every feature that makes a game good and then wondering why people quit playing.

God forbid they actually make it so people could get a reasonable item once in a while when farming tedious bosses for days at a time.

Miwa
09-17-2013, 04:24 PM
They're getting rid of it because it removes the requirement to actually play the game. Why bother playing a loot-based game when you can always get better stuff cheaply and easily from the AH.

blakegrandon
09-17-2013, 04:29 PM
They're getting rid of it because it removes the requirement to actually play the game. Why bother playing a loot-based game when you can always get better stuff cheaply and easily from the AH.

The problem is that it doesn't solve the problem of WHY people were going to the AH in the first place. No one wants to grind for days to get gear they can't use. That's the fundamental problem with D3, which the AH "sort of" fixed.

In D2 you traded for the best gear in chat, but drops were still worth farming for, in D3 instead of trading in chat you could just hop on the AH.

Without fundamentally changing how loot drops and how it's generated to make it so you can actually use the stuff you're getting, dropping the auction house didn't fix anything, it just means people won't play at all.

Xtopher
09-17-2013, 04:29 PM
They're shutting down both the gold and RMAH. I only played through Diablo once and never used the AH so I don't really know what goes on there.

ol4ever
09-17-2013, 04:35 PM
This made me unhappy since I made a lot of money in the RMAH including the 50$ I paid for slacker backer.
But tbh it spoiled the game.

Xenavire
09-17-2013, 04:37 PM
Just before the new expansion? Seems fishy, unless I am missing something.

If anything, I think they are going to take it down and let people have a go at world firsts, or replace it with something better. I would lean towards the world first option, just because it would upset the balance terribly to have people loot screwed and selling things for ungodly amounts of gold which rich people then buy and win with.

They need the AH, or they need to change the fundementals. So I doubt this is permanent, and the expansion just explains it in my eyes.

Niedar
09-17-2013, 04:38 PM
The problem is that it doesn't solve the problem of WHY people were going to the AH in the first place. No one wants to grind for days to get gear they can't use. That's the fundamental problem with D3, which the AH "sort of" fixed.

In D2 you traded for the best gear in chat, but drops were still worth farming for, in D3 instead of trading in chat you could just hop on the AH.

Without fundamentally changing how loot drops and how it's generated to make it so you can actually use the stuff you're getting, dropping the auction house didn't fix anything, it just means people won't play at all.


You have it backwards, having an AH in the first place is what caused them to make a shitty game with terrible item drop rates.

The fundamentals are being changed, but tbh I am not interested in ever playing that game again. They completely ruined the Diablo series and I would rather play PoE. Uniques are going to be way better with a vastly increased drop rate and item stat generation will be modified by what class you are playing.

Xtopher
09-17-2013, 04:41 PM
It seems like it would be impossible to find enough gems without the AH. Maybe they're going to reduce the # of gems needed to create a better one or increase their drop rate.

Mr.Funsocks
09-17-2013, 04:44 PM
Well, Diablo is all about getting the best pants (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5777-Diablo-3)... So if you can get the best pants with little effort, there's not much game left.

BongoBong
09-17-2013, 04:45 PM
I found the auction house was the only way you could actually play the game... Grinding for hundreds of hours just to get RNG Screwed and never get any usable gear was annoying.

Blizzard missed the point of WHY people were using the Auction House.... It's like getting rid of every feature that makes a game good and then wondering why people quit playing.

God forbid they actually make it so people could get a reasonable item once in a while when farming tedious bosses for days at a time.

They are implementing a new loot system as well that should allow you to more easily grind the gear yourself.

blakegrandon
09-17-2013, 04:46 PM
You have it backwards, having an AH in the first place is what caused them to make a shitty game with terrible item drop rates.


I guess it's a chicken/egg situation, unfortunately they're basically taking the chicken away while leaving a ton of egg.

Getting rid of the auction house without changing how drops are doesn't bode well for game play...

At least with the auction house I had a chance of buying gear that I could actually use, whether by grinding in game for hours or spending RL cash.

Remember time=money, spending time mindlessly farming gold is no different than dropping a few dollars on a piece of gear that either way you would never find in the game.

Now they just removed any incentive to actually play the game... Which is a shame because I own every CE copy of every Blizzard game they've ever made.

All of that said I'll probably pick up the expansion just to take it through it's paces and see if they fixed anything.

Niedar
09-17-2013, 04:50 PM
Except as I said thats not what they did, they will be implementing something called smart drop that tunes the stats on rare items that are dropped to your class, uniques are buffed big time in how good they are and the drop rate of uniques is greatly increased.

"He also details something called "smart drops," in which every time an item drops, it can calculate its stats to be more suited for the class that it drops for. In short: you should no longer be getting all those Wizard hats with +strength."

"Mosqueria uses a standard run through of Act III inferno on a Paragon level 40 character as a comparison between the current loot system, and loot 2.0. Whereas now you would get around 253 white items, 399 blues, 275 rares and only 1 legendary, in loot 2.0 you would find 75 whites, 266 blues, 83 rares and 6 legendaries."

Here is a quote as an example, there are less rares dropped but a much larger percentage of those rares will actually be useful for you and there are 6x the amount of legendaries dropped.

Like I said, I am never playing the game again but they don't just solely plan on removing the AH.

You can read more here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127079-Update-Diablo-IIIs-Loot-2-0-Breakdown-Less-Better-More-Epic

Facilier
09-17-2013, 05:25 PM
Getting rid of the auction house without changing how drops are doesn't bode well for game play...

Blizzard have already been talking about revamping the loot system since before the announcement.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/9773963

"We want items to feel more meaningful, and we want players to be excited about the next loot drop. Our goal is to make the loot experience more enjoyable for ALL players. This includes reducing the amount of loot that drops while improving the overall quality, introducing targeted Legendaries, and giving players ways to directly customize their character's armor—both visually and mechanically."

Now I don't really buy the whole "conflicting with the core concept of the game" notion or some such. The key element is likely how much it costs in terms of customer support, payment security, etc. If there was a large amount of money being made off the Auction House, I doubt they would be overly eager to shut it down, unless they genuinely want to take a gamble on a new vision for the game.

But even there, somebody, somewhere must have decided that it will lead to more profits.

Parzival
09-17-2013, 05:31 PM
Warning incoming rant detected.

So let me see if I get this right, Blizzard, fumbling around with the successor to one of the greatest arpgs ever and with declining
revenue stream from WoW decides to rush Diablo 3.

But here is the trick, they don't intend to keep the Diablo franchise around, a single player arpg doesn't fit into their business model, but they want to test out an RMAH for project Titan and of course they have the goodwill that D2 created to exploit.

So they throw in a AH , drive the drop rates into the ground forcing people who never wanted to play an arpg online at all times to use an AH which Chinese gold farmers quickly undermined because hey you could make a living off of it. Massive gold inflation forcing all the good stuff onto the RMAH, so you pay premium AAA title prices for a game and then spend - double, triple that again to actually gear your character? Hmmm sounds like a rip off.

Fast forward some months and D3 playerbase is dying - fast, so they decide on an expansion but they know people no longer trust them, so they magically rework things that gamers have been complaining about from day one (which they had to do for the console version anyway) in a desperate attempt to make money and save some face for Project Titan.

Wow, Blizzard just wow. (pun intended)

The_Wine_Gnat
09-17-2013, 05:36 PM
Just before the new expansion? Seems fishy, unless I am missing something.

If anything, I think they are going to take it down and let people have a go at world firsts, or replace it with something better. I would lean towards the world first option, just because it would upset the balance terribly to have people loot screwed and selling things for ungodly amounts of gold which rich people then buy and win with.

They need the AH, or they need to change the fundementals. So I doubt this is permanent, and the expansion just explains it in my eyes.

Facts: http://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo/diablo-3-auction-house-scrapped-itll-be-shut-down-march

Xenavire
09-17-2013, 05:54 PM
So they are changing the fundementals. I really should research these things, but damn I have fairly good educated guesses now and then. Thanks for the link.

I wonder if it's worth playing my character to 60 sometime... My monk is hovering somewhere around 40-50, but I never felt compelled to continue.

Deathfog
09-17-2013, 05:56 PM
Bad idea in the first place as it significantly compromised the end product. Trying it out and tossing in such a big public way however will help prevent such things from occurring in the future.

Luckily games like this are designed around heavy duty trading to get everything you want/need due to the huge pool of possible drops every time a pack is opened. A good AH is required for something like this, well Hearthstone doesn't have one but has a lot less possible viable cards to work with.

ol4ever
09-17-2013, 06:36 PM
I bet they will put microtransactions after some time. All they care is money.

Shrennan
09-17-2013, 06:46 PM
The concept of the real money auction house only works for games that it makes sense for. I don't think Diablo was one of those games, quite frankly. It makes perfect sense for digital trading card games though. Hopefully CZE will find the solution to put a real money auction house in eventually.

Heck, I doubt many people would complain if Blizzard implemented a real money auction house into Hearthstone - in fact, I think people would like it. Of course, HS doesn't allow trading so that will never happen.

Soul-of-Void
09-17-2013, 09:58 PM
Well too late for me, wont bother with D3, but the good thing about D3 being such fail let me discover Hex KS ^^

Nicalapegus
09-17-2013, 10:42 PM
I found the auction house was the only way you could actually play the game... Grinding for hundreds of hours just to get RNG Screwed and never get any usable gear was annoying.

Blizzard missed the point of WHY people were using the Auction House.... It's like getting rid of every feature that makes a game good and then wondering why people quit playing.

God forbid they actually make it so people could get a reasonable item once in a while when farming tedious bosses for days at a time.

Well you're completely off base if you thought the AH was "good" or "great." The AH is what ruined the Diablo experience. That coupled with the way gear dropped made it unplayable, as you said. With Loot 2.0 (Making it so gear that you can actually use drops most of the time, not random gear with random stats) and the removal of the AH, I'm utterly excited to get my hands on the expansion set. It will bring back the grindy nature of the game with actual REWARDS for time spent grinding.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127079-Update-Diablo-IIIs-Loot-2-0-Breakdown-Less-Better-More-Epic

Parzival
09-17-2013, 11:58 PM
Well you're completely off base if you thought the AH was "good" or "great." The AH is what ruined the Diablo experience. That coupled with the way gear dropped made it unplayable, as you said. With Loot 2.0 (Making it so gear that you can actually use drops most of the time, not random gear with random stats) and the removal of the AH, I'm utterly excited to get my hands on the expansion set. It will bring back the grindy nature of the game with actual REWARDS for time spent grinding.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127079-Update-Diablo-IIIs-Loot-2-0-Breakdown-Less-Better-More-Epic

But then Blizzard wins, they release a horrible game with a crappy drop system = money from D2 fans hoping for the Third Coming, they then force their player base to the RMAH = more money from people trying to make a living from a game then finally after people have left and their RMAH is in ruins they repackage it as the game it should have always been, slap on an "expansion" and make even more money.

Accident or by design?

LNQ
09-18-2013, 12:06 AM
I don't mind. I played D3 for a while, got bored, and now they release an expansion and fix the biggest problem preventing D3 from being more fun.

Probably won't play it but it's a good move to make.

Unhurtable
09-18-2013, 01:27 AM
Is it a good move? Yeah

Is Loot 2.0 going to be better? No clue. They stated that they want items to "drop less, but be better and more epic" and I just don't see how that fixes the problem. Wasn't the issue that people weren't actually playing the game because of horrible drop rates?

Soul-of-Void
09-18-2013, 01:42 AM
well not drop rates but random stats on drop was annoying , like wizard wand/staff with str or dex its instant WTF? so only way to get good items was AH

LNQ
09-18-2013, 01:47 AM
Wasn't the issue that people weren't actually playing the game because of horrible drop rates?

No. There were plenty of drops. Loads of useless whites and blues, so drop rate wasn't an issue. Drop quality was, and they're addressing that.

ossuary
09-18-2013, 05:26 AM
I wonder if it's worth playing my character to 60 sometime... My monk is hovering somewhere around 40-50, but I never felt compelled to continue.

I hear you... I (like a lot of other people) was really excited by this game's promise and got it on release day. After beating Nightmare with my wizard/mage/whatever they called it in this game, I was still only level 41 or so. I started a monk to see what another more melee class was like, and just gave up entirely after about level 15.

The problem with all Diablo games (okay, one of the MANY problems) is that you rush through the game the first time trying to level up and get more powerful, so you sort of gloss over the story. But then on subsequent playthroughs on higher difficulty, you don't give a toss about the story anymore, because you've already been railroaded through it once, so it just becomes a time-consuming annoyance. If it didn't take Blizzard 20 years to make a game "their way," they could just make the story 3 times as long (and better) instead of making you play through the exact same game 2 more times but with higher HP enemies. Why do you even need "better lewtz!" after you've already beaten the game?

In all honesty, D3 was the last straw for me with Blizzard. They're off my "auto-purchase" list, just like Square is because of the abomination that was FF13. At this point, that list is down to exactly 1 company (Naughty Dog), because they haven't gotten around to screwing me yet. ;)

blakegrandon
09-18-2013, 05:33 AM
No. There were plenty of drops. Loads of useless whites and blues, so drop rate wasn't an issue. Drop quality was, and they're addressing that.

Heh... Those of us that played D3 since the beginning remember that they already promised to address drop rates once... It had pretty much no noticable difference other than increasing the number of crappy legendaries.

I never said the auction house was a good thing... It made the game somewhat palatable and at least I could grind gold and buy a decent piece of gear off the AH once in a while.

The problem with D3 wasn't always about the gear, it was also about the stupidly annoying fights in inferno with bosses that had affixes that made you want to cry.

Even running on a dedicated gaming PC some packs would cause so much lag that before I know what happens my hardcore paragon would be dead as a door nail.

I can understand death due to my mistakes or the rare situation where I hit 2-3 packs at once, but death via lag based on their abilities/mob placement just sucks all of the fun out of the game.

Not that I'm bitter or anything...

They're off my "auto-purchase" list, just like Square is because of the abomination that was FF13.

I can't buy Nintendo or Square Enix.... I'm a Dragon Quest/Warrior fan in the US. We have gotten the shaft on pretty much every release for Dragon Quest, ever. :(

Unhurtable
09-18-2013, 05:40 AM
well not drop rates but random stats on drop was annoying , like wizard wand/staff with str or dex its instant WTF? so only way to get good items was AH

Well it still has to do with drop rates in the sense that "if I farm tonight for 2 hours will I get good loot" where in almost all other Diablo-likes this has been the case, Diablo 3 lacked this, at least at launch.


No. There were plenty of drops. Loads of useless whites and blues, so drop rate wasn't an issue. Drop quality was, and they're addressing that.

I was kind of referring to the "drop rates of good items" but I guess I should've been more specific :)

Xenavire
09-18-2013, 06:14 AM
Heh... Those of us that played D3 since the beginning remember that they already promised to address drop rates once... It had pretty much no noticable difference other than increasing the number of crappy legendaries.

I never said the auction house was a good thing... It made the game somewhat palatable and at least I could grind gold and buy a decent piece of gear off the AH once in a while.

The problem with D3 wasn't always about the gear, it was also about the stupidly annoying fights in inferno with bosses that had affixes that made you want to cry.

Even running on a dedicated gaming PC some packs would cause so much lag that before I know what happens my hardcore paragon would be dead as a door nail.

I can understand death due to my mistakes or the rare situation where I hit 2-3 packs at once, but death via lag based on their abilities/mob placement just sucks all of the fun out of the game.

Not that I'm bitter or anything...


I can't buy Nintendo or Square Enix.... I'm a Dragon Quest/Warrior fan in the US. We have gotten the shaft on pretty much every release for Dragon Quest, ever. :(

Nintendo isn't bad. They have enough good games, but the gamers need better support from them, which they seem to be trying to deliver. They waited too long to play catch up, and they are getting the backlash.

Square Enix, on the other hand, has been sliding down a slippery slope for years starting shortly after the merger. The mana series, chrono trigger, dragon quest, so many titles either abandoned, destroyed, whored out or given crappy remakes... The fact they are putting new games on iOS rather than making quality games for real consoles/handhelds shows how much they are trying to whore their legacy out for quick cash. They think they are giving the fans what they want, but they have forgotten everything the fans loved.

Blizzard is going down the same path as Square Enix. Too much whoring and not enough quality.

Diablo 3 was amusing to play, but never worth investing time in. I wonder if Blizzard is even capable of fixing it? If so, I might someday look into the new expansion, but chances are I will stick with my base game that I got as part of the Annual pass. (In other words, I got it free. I would have never bought it.)

Hemotherapy
09-18-2013, 07:15 AM
I'm glad they're ditching the AH in D3, and adjusting how loot works. That's what I would have expected from a game like this. Having to use trade, etc, helps people be more social and builds a better community.

Namiriel
09-18-2013, 08:16 AM
Yeah. Torchlight 2 is the Diablo 3 I wanted.

Vorpal
09-18-2013, 08:47 AM
I definitely agree that killing a boss in a heroic fight, then getting some piece of garbage you sell on the AH so you can buy the gear you REALLY want simply by forking over a sufficiently large wad of cash, is extremely anti-climactic.

By deciding to go with random loot, they pretty much locked themselves into having an AH.

Niedar
09-18-2013, 09:39 AM
Seen people mention Torchlight 2 but I am surprised I haven't seen Path of Exile mentioned which is the true successor to Diablo 2 in my opinion and also a free to play game with absolutely zero pay to win.

Aerensiniac
09-18-2013, 09:46 AM
Be thankful that all these opportunist, capitalistic ***** practices are backfiring on both microsoft and blizzard.
Maybe the next time they try to sacrifice 70% of game play value just so they can get more money, they will actually use their god damned stupid heads and release a game instead of a tax collecting software.

The gaming industry needs some serious failing and death before going back to the road of actually making games for the sake of gamers.

Blackhoof
09-18-2013, 09:46 AM
Seen people mention Torchlight 2 but I am surprised I haven't seen Path of Exile mentioned which is the true successor to Diablo 2 in my opinion and also a free to play game with absolutely zero pay to win.
Yep! Path of Exile rocks. But much people say it has ugly graphics. Amazing gameplay beats this flaw totally.

QuartZ
09-18-2013, 11:18 AM
Yes! Who cares about D3 when you have Path of Exile, a REAL f2p anti p2w aRPG? If you say bad graphics i suggest taking a look att the game now. At Max settings you will need a strong pc to run it. The game begins slow and get faster as you go, creating a real feel of progression. So yeah, the first 10 lvls feels slow but in 1 or 2 hours you can pass that easily.

BongoBong
09-18-2013, 12:12 PM
Yes! Who cares about D3 when you have Path of Exile, a REAL f2p anti p2w aRPG? If you say bad graphics i suggest taking a look att the game now. At Max settings you will need a strong pc to run it. The game begins slow and get faster as you go, creating a real feel of progression. So yeah, the first 10 lvls feels slow but in 1 or 2 hours you can pass that easily.

Any big changes to PoE since it released? I backed/donated or whatever it was called and went through the game when it was released (or at least released to backers) but haven't played since.

Gwaer
09-18-2013, 12:15 PM
It has had tons of changes. They have done crazy amounts of improvement since then.

BongoBong
09-18-2013, 12:19 PM
It has had tons of changes. They have done crazy amounts of improvement since then.

started downloading the updates. 2.2 gigs worth apparently so definitely a lot of stuff in there!

gunpocket
09-18-2013, 03:51 PM
Poe still looks gross and plays really badly for the first bunch of levels. D3'x datamined xpac info looks amazing though, complete skill re-balances, legendary re-balances (actual unique stuff like in d2) better loot drops, no ah, tons of things like loot runs and better paragon, who needs razer footprints f2p game.

Unhurtable
09-19-2013, 12:31 AM
Poe still looks gross and plays really badly for the first bunch of levels. D3'x datamined xpac info looks amazing though, complete skill re-balances, legendary re-balances (actual unique stuff like in d2) better loot drops, no ah, tons of things like loot runs and better paragon, who needs razer footprints f2p game.

Because if there is one thing that is fun, it is getting the same 10 abilities the first 10 levels.

Every. Damn. Time.

Hemotherapy
09-19-2013, 08:42 AM
Poe still looks gross and plays really badly for the first bunch of levels. D3'x datamined xpac info looks amazing though, complete skill re-balances, legendary re-balances (actual unique stuff like in d2) better loot drops, no ah, tons of things like loot runs and better paragon, who needs razer footprints f2p game.

D3 xpac looks legit for sure. I'm Stok3d about it.

I do sort of want to play the game JUST because of the Razer foot prints.

I have a Razer Blade...Razer Maurader...Razer death adder...Razer Hammerhead...reazer ferox...Razer goliathus...Razer razer razer...razer.


Razer.