PDA

View Full Version : Ancestral Specter



Cipri
09-19-2013, 04:41 PM
So I was browsing some cards and I saw this: http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/images/cards/big/AncestralSpecter.jpg

Is this for real? costs 1, its a 2/2 with flight and you get to draw a card when it comes into play? OMG!!!

Isnt that to much?

Im new here but I this card in particular seems super powerfull to me or am I seing things wrong? :D

Regards! :)

Aradon
09-19-2013, 06:19 PM
Hi Cipri! Welcome to the forums!
A few cards like that caught me off guard too, but fear not! If you look at the colored box at the bottom center of that card, the color indicates the rarity of the card. Cards with greyed boxes like that are 'tokens' or 'system' cards that aren't actual cards in your collection. Ancestral Specter is a 'card' generated by another card, 'The Ancestor's Chosen.' That card is a one-cost spell that, at the beginning of your turn, creates two Ancestral Specters and shuffles them into your library. So, they are very strong cards, but you don't have very great chances of drawing them after making them. Other cards that seem very powerful for their cost are frequently also generated by other cards in one manner or another.

For reference, the rarity colors are
White: Common
Green: Uncommon
Blue: Rare
Red: Legendary
Orange: Promotional version
Grey: System/token/AI only, not a card for your collection.
Also, if a card is a PvE card, it will have a little mask symbol to the left of this rarity box to indicate this.

Cipri
09-20-2013, 03:11 AM
Thanks Aradon, that makes perfect sence, after all I was really missing something :)

Many thanks,
Cipri

EmraldArcher
09-20-2013, 12:19 PM
So heres something Ive been wondering about this card.

When they are shuffled into your deck, are they just placed randomly into your deck or is your whole deck plus the 2 new cards shuffled together?

Now I think we would all expect it to be the latter but its possible (if not likely) it was coded to be the former.

Aradon
09-20-2013, 12:58 PM
Since it says the word shuffle, I would expect the whole deck is shuffled. If you've seen the top card of your library, for example, it would probably be different after the Ancestor's trigger.

If it doesn't work like that, I would expect a different wording, since 'shuffle' is pretty clear, and not vague.

Shadowelf
09-20-2013, 01:11 PM
My interpretation is that the cards wil be randomly put in your deck without providing a shuffle effect. if this was triggering a shuffle effect, then it should have been worded like 'create 2 tokens and put them into your deck; shuffle your deck'. Note this wouldn't be possible/allowed in mtg for example because it would have been considered cheating. But here the game does this for you. Could be wrong though

Here is the card for reference

1046

Broddr
09-20-2013, 03:19 PM
and "Shuffle" them into your deck. Not place them. If you were able to randomly place them in person (physical card game) then you can easily place them near the top. Shuffling the entire deck seems more viable

Feldspar78
09-22-2013, 09:34 AM
I have to agree with Shadowelf's interpretation. Shuffle them into your deck, to me, says they will be randomly placed in your deck. The rest of the cards in your deck are not altered by that, except the 2 cards that used to be next to each other before this card was inserted.

noragar
09-25-2013, 04:06 PM
To me it seems just as clear that your whole deck should be getting shuffled, so if you just set your deck with a Peek spell, for example, that ordering would go away. That's the definition of 'shuffle'. If it were the other way, it would say something like "Insert the card at a random spot in your deck."

I guess we'll find out when we either get a rulebook or alpha starts and we can test it.

Soldack
10-08-2013, 07:16 AM
I have to agree with Shadowelf's interpretation. Shuffle them into your deck, to me, says they will be randomly placed in your deck. The rest of the cards in your deck are not altered by that, except the 2 cards that used to be next to each other before this card was inserted.

The basic idea of "shuffle them into your deck" means they are inserted by shuffling your deck.

jaxsonbatemanhex
10-08-2013, 03:37 PM
I'm of the opinion your whole deck will be shuffled. If they were meant to just be placed randomly in your deck, I'd imagine they would've said that instead.

tatsumasa
10-09-2013, 08:24 AM
It is not an opinion. It is a fact of any card game that this means they are shuffled randomly in to your deck. If it were to allow placement, wording typically includes something like "Place the cards on top of your deck" or "Place the cards on the bottom of your deck". That is, it tells you some where to put it and does not mention shuffling.

Some times cards would say "search your library for X. Shuffle your library and put X on top". I have never seen a card game where shuffling something in your deck meant you could place it where you wanted afterward. Sure you can place it where you want before you shuffle, but then you shuffle so it doesn't matter.

EmraldArcher
10-09-2013, 08:30 AM
It is not an opinion. It is a fact of any card game that this means they are shuffled randomly in to your deck. If it were to allow placement, wording typically includes something like "Place the cards on top of your deck" or "Place the cards on the bottom of your deck". That is, it tells you some where to put it and does not mention shuffling.

Some times cards would say "search your library for X. Shuffle your library and put X on top". I have never seen a card game where shuffling something in your deck meant you could place it where you wanted afterward. Sure you can place it where you want before you shuffle, but then you shuffle so it doesn't matter.

Yea it wouldn't be feasible to just place them into your deck in a physical game because that would create a rules violation. In Hex though the computer is sticking them in there and you wouldn't really have any extra knowledge about your deck.

While I think the entire deck will get shuffled it is an interesting situation where Hex can deviate from "normal" ccg constraints because of the digital space (either intentionally or just by programming it the 'easy" way).

Jbizzi
10-09-2013, 08:33 AM
I will add to this discussion since the eVersion of such card game mechanics seems to be overlooked sometimes.

I also do not know how the card draw engine is designed in Hex and would hope to get more information about it eventually. Do all cards have a chance to be drawn (RNG) at any given time or is the deck actually layered to begin and then "reshuffled" when appropriate?

The thing with cards like these is that given the two types of systems, you could "randomly place" them back in your deck without "reshuffling." Meaning that, if you knew what the next couple of cards were going to be on the top of your deck, the game could leave them there and place the new cards in your deck randomly for you (maybe even replacing one of the two cards you thought were on the top of your deck)

Probably a little more than I need to think about this morning, but card randomization in decks intrigues me for online versions of TCGs.

tatsumasa
10-09-2013, 10:33 AM
I will add to this discussion since the eVersion of such card game mechanics seems to be overlooked sometimes.

I also do not know how the card draw engine is designed in Hex and would hope to get more information about it eventually. Do all cards have a chance to be drawn (RNG) at any given time or is the deck actually layered to begin and then "reshuffled" when appropriate?

The thing with cards like these is that given the two types of systems, you could "randomly place" them back in your deck without "reshuffling." Meaning that, if you knew what the next couple of cards were going to be on the top of your deck, the game could leave them there and place the new cards in your deck randomly for you (maybe even replacing one of the two cards you thought were on the top of your deck)

Probably a little more than I need to think about this morning, but card randomization in decks intrigues me for online versions of TCGs.

I do not know the actual implementation but I can speak to a couple things here.

I am sure that the deck is actually shuffled in a random fashion (well, as random as computers can be, which those real life dice rollers are always skeptical about...). The reason for this is that you may know some things are on top of your deck, if they are just placed in random positions, this does not change what is on top of your deck. Sure there could be something that puts them in randomly, but if it says shuffle, it has to shuffle otherwise you don't have that "drawback" of the ability.

As far as not actually being random, I have seen in MTG PC games that have made lately (like 2013, or was it 2014), the computer's difficulty is controlled by XML files that affect the chance for the PC to draw something. In that regard, difficulty is not achieved by having a more strategic opponent, but by increasing the chances that he always gets what he wants--he does not actually have a normally shuffled deck.