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Cipri
09-25-2013, 05:18 AM
Look,

1050

"At the start of your turn...."

Does this means every turn? 2 extra cards added to the deck every turn? This card is crazy :D


Regards,
Cipri

havocattack
09-25-2013, 05:21 AM
Sure does, sure is :D

Maphalux
09-25-2013, 05:22 AM
Yes. That is what it means. And yes, it actually is quite good.

Chiany
09-25-2013, 05:23 AM
Yes it means every turn, as long this card is on the field.

Malicus
09-25-2013, 05:43 AM
that card makes me want to play sapphire - drawing into 5 cantrip 2/2 flyers for 1 would be sweet

MoikPEI
09-25-2013, 06:38 AM
They used it in one of the streams. And it did kinda run away a bit.

Daer
09-25-2013, 07:27 AM
Here is the stream where they play a deck with Ancestor's Chosen:

http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg/b/443356012

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-25-2013, 07:52 AM
It's a great card - but it's not all upside. Just keep in mind that until you actually draw one of the Specters you aren't really getting value out of it, and it can make shard-light opening hands a bit shakier (if you do run this out on turn 1, you'll be reducing your odds of drawing into more shards).

Overall though, it's groovy, especially in control - against the faster aggro decks, you put down a turn 1 troop that you can use to trade. Against the slower decks, you're setting yourself up nicely for the later stages of the game.

noragar
09-25-2013, 08:58 AM
it can make shard-light opening hands a bit shakier (if you do run this out on turn 1, you'll be reducing your odds of drawing into more shards).


Wouldn't the cantrip effect eliminate this problem? If you don't draw a specter, then the odds of drawing a resource are the same as they would have been if the specters hadn't been in your deck. If you do draw a specter, as long as you play it that turn, you'll get to draw the card you would have drawn if the specters hadn't been in your deck.

So the only difference would be if you draw a specter, but don't play it that turn. The most likely reason I can think of for that to happen would be if you wanted to play some more powerful, higher cost troop instead of the specter, but if that's the case then you're probably doing fine as far as the number of resources in play.

Rycajo
09-25-2013, 09:49 AM
Wouldn't the cantrip effect eliminate this problem? If you don't draw a specter, then the odds of drawing a resource are the same as they would have been if the specters hadn't been in your deck. If you do draw a specter, as long as you play it that turn, you'll get to draw the card you would have drawn if the specters hadn't been in your deck.

So the only difference would be if you draw a specter, but don't play it that turn. The most likely reason I can think of for that to happen would be if you wanted to play some more powerful, higher cost troop instead of the specter, but if that's the case then you're probably doing fine as far as the number of resources in play.

Well put. Your card draw capabilities are only reduced if you choose to hold the specter. The specter is a very nice form of card advantage.

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-25-2013, 09:58 AM
/facepalm, that's totally true. Actually, I had this discussion with someone a while ago, where I was actually arguing that point (basically that on, say, turn 3, if you drew a Specter, played it, drew something else, and had no shard to play - you wouldn't have drawn a shard anyway, but at least you have a 2/2 flier out there and have gained some card advantage), but I guess it was a month or two ago now so it slipped my mind. >.<

EmraldArcher
09-25-2013, 10:47 AM
Wouldn't the cantrip effect eliminate this problem? If you don't draw a specter, then the odds of drawing a resource are the same as they would have been if the specters hadn't been in your deck.

Assuming a 60 card deck with 28 resources, 2 resources in opening hand:

Turn 2 without specters: 53 cards left, 26 resources - 49.06% chance of drawing resource.

Turn 2 with specters: 55 cards left, 26 resources - 47.27% chance of drawing a resource, 3.64% chance of drawing a specter.
If you DO happen to draw a specter you now have a 48.15% chance of getting a resource from the cantrip or a 1.85% of the second specter. If you get really lucky and draw the second specter you then have the same chance of drawing a resource from the second cantrip as if you didn't add the specters to your deck in the first place.

Turn 3 without specters: 52 cards left, 26 resources - 50% chance of hitting your third resource on turn 3.

Turn 3 with specters (didn't draw one on turn 2): 56 cards left, 26 resources - 46.43% of drawing a resource, 7.14% of getting a specter with a 47.27% of getting a resource from the effect.

So while this is a pretty powerful card it DOES reduce your chances of drawing a specific card and even if you do draw the card you're looking for off the cantrip you might not have the mana to cast it because of the mana you spent to draw it.

funktion
09-25-2013, 11:37 AM
Don't think of it as a cantrip, think of it as an added effect to the card you would have drawn anyways. Traditionally cantrips help thin and filter your deck, this does not. It's much more similar to shrine of prosperity.

noragar
09-25-2013, 11:39 AM
For turn 3, you need to keep going like you did for turn 2. You'll have a 7.14% chance of drawing another specter which will give you another draw at around 48%. Then on that draw you'll have a chance at drawing another specter... until you get to 50% for the last one.

You're point is very valid though about potentially not having the resources to play all the specters you drew. That's where the percentage does decrease - if you're unable (or choose not to) play the specter you drew.

Hemotherapy
09-25-2013, 12:23 PM
So there's about a 2%-4% decreased chance to draw a resource on average with the cantrip. Seems like a good exchange to me to gain a 2/2 Flyer on the board early

noragar
09-25-2013, 12:33 PM
So there's about a 2%-4% decreased chance to draw a resource on average with the cantrip. Seems like a good exchange to me to gain a 2/2 Flyer on the board early

The percentages only go down if you don't play a specter after you draw it. If you play it, then then the percentages remain unchanged.

Hemotherapy
09-25-2013, 12:52 PM
The percentages only go down if you don't play a specter after you draw it. If you play it, then then the percentages remain unchanged.

Ah, gotcha. ty!

RandomWitness
09-25-2013, 01:07 PM
Yea this card is nuts and will see play. I would gladly spend Burns to take that thing out before it ever saw the start of my opponents next turn

Gwaer
09-25-2013, 01:13 PM
At gencon I played a game against Nthanel and had 2 or 3 ancestor's chosen basically all game, I got up to an incredibly large deck and was just drawing them every turn. It was pretty great.

Wolfe
09-25-2013, 01:27 PM
Assuming a 60 card deck with 28 resources, 2 resources in opening hand:

Turn 2 without specters: 53 cards left, 26 resources - 49.06% chance of drawing resource.

Turn 2 with specters: 55 cards left, 26 resources - 47.27% chance of drawing a resource, 3.64% chance of drawing a specter.
If you DO happen to draw a specter you now have a 48.15% chance of getting a resource from the cantrip or a 1.85% of the second specter. If you get really lucky and draw the second specter you then have the same chance of drawing a resource from the second cantrip as if you didn't add the specters to your deck in the first place.

These probabilities are spot on, but there is the additional marginal resource-by-specter chance that makes the overall probability balance out. 47.27% chance of drawing a resource directly + (3.64% * 48.15% = 1.75% chance of resource-by-one-specter) + (3.64% * 1.85% * 49.06% = 0.03% chance of resource-by-double-specter). So 47.27% + 1.75% + 0.03% = 49.05% chance to get a resource directly, by specter or by double specter. We both rounded a bit for clarity, but it works out the same as we started (49.056604%). It does potentially use up your resources to get there though.

EmraldArcher
09-25-2013, 01:27 PM
These probabilities are spot on, but there is the additional marginal resource-by-specter chance that makes the overall probability balance out. 47.27% chance of drawing a resource directly + (3.64% * 48.15% = 1.75% chance of resource-by-one-specter) + (3.64% * 1.85% * 49.06% = 0.03% chance of resource-by-double-specter). So 47.27% + 1.75% + 0.03% = 49.05% chance to get a resource directly, by specter or by double specter. We both rounded a bit for clarity, but it works out the same as we started (49.056604%). It does potentially use up your resources to get there though.

Ah yea that makes sense.

Dealing with such low probabilities and small sample sizes I still wouldn't feel good about cantripping into that resource I need on turn 3 though :p

Refugee
09-25-2013, 02:18 PM
At gencon I played a game against Nthanel and had 2 or 3 ancestor's chosen basically all game, I got up to an incredibly large deck and was just drawing them every turn. It was pretty great.

Also played this deck at gencon. I was against the lifegain deck that had two monstrosities (those guys that get bigger when you gain life) and I had two flock of seagulls (I think) that is a 0/1 that doesn't take combat damage to block them. So basically he couldn't get through but he had enough lifegain that it was going to take forever to kill him. Sat on a couple of these guys for a long time until my deck was over 60 cards and he was around 20 cards (so well over half my deck was the cantrip fliers). Amazingly I still did not draw the fliers very often. Unfortunately due to the large amount of creatures we both had the game ended up crashing before we could end it :(

keldrin
09-25-2013, 11:12 PM
The Ancestors Chosen sounds like a awesome card to have fun with. And I will love experimenting with it in dungeons and raids, maybe in constructed as well.
But combined with cardboard samurai or maybe Monkey of the 9 tails :D