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Truhls
09-27-2013, 12:51 PM
It sounds like the keep name is the regular IGN you will go by in game. Like say a character name for MMO's, but one you cant switch from. I don't know about you guys but I've been using my online name for a very long time, and don't want to change it. I've had many friends find me in game when i don't even know they are playing because I've used it for so long. But "Keep Truhls, or Keep of Truhls " sounds like complete shit. So I'm either forced to change my in game name I've been using for well over 10 years, or be unhappy with my keep name in a game i plan to play for quite some time. Anyone else a little upset about this?

Shadowspawn
09-27-2013, 12:54 PM
I don't think it sounds bad at all, but I guess people need to complain about something today...

Mr.Funsocks
09-27-2013, 12:55 PM
Yeah, I'd like a user name that's separate from my keep name too. I AM Mr.Funsocks, but my keep probably won't be. My characters might have that name, but they won't all have the same name, so it might be a little odd.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 12:59 PM
Yee.
I feel like I'm, going to have to choose between having a keep name I like and having a chat/pvp name I like.
I can't think of many things which fit both let alone will actually signal to guildmates I'm me. :/

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 01:01 PM
I put Gwaer in your Gwaer so you could Gwaer while you Gwaer.

Aradon
09-27-2013, 01:06 PM
Identifying as a location for a chat room persona feels rather unwieldy, yes. I guess I'll deal, but would prefer an account name as the top level, with sub-level Keeps for various champions. Could even create multiple keeps that track PvE progression separately, if you wanted to 'start over.' I'm guessing they want to avoid that, but to me, Keeps as the top level rather than account names feels odd.

Jinxies
09-27-2013, 01:07 PM
I actually like the keep name idea a lot! ^__^

Ogodei
09-27-2013, 01:09 PM
I don't like it. Using the same name to identify a person and a pile of rocks just doesn't work for me.

Pezzle
09-27-2013, 01:10 PM
This is a bad policy they need to reconsider. Your chat name (community name) needs to be different than your keep name. If your handle is Jeff that should be what people see in chat, not your keep name, be it syrup citadel or flatuland. Champions having a location name is fine, but that idea should not supersede your own identity in Hex.

Livewire
09-27-2013, 01:12 PM
Everyone is going to want there chat and PVP names to be there standard online handle, Livewire for example for me.

However I do not want all my cards to read "Frost Armor of Livewire" "Ancient Sacred Necklace of Livewire" "Forsaken Imp of Livewire" or my champions to be "Livewire of Livewire" or "Dave of Livewire" makes no sense and sounds HORRID. But I also don't want my friends, any chat, pvp name to read say (pulling from real castles) Portchester ..whilst "Forsaken Imp of Portchester" sounds good, I really dont want this "Portchester: Hey guys anyone want a duel?" , "Livewire: HAHA what kind of name is Portchester..."

I would suggest someone at Crypto REALLY think about this, it wouldn't be hard for a user to pick a Keep name that is bound to cards, then a Playername that is bound to the account & keep, then modify when/where those names are used.

N.B. Sorry if anyone is named Portchester, its just an example :P

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 01:13 PM
Just think of it as naming the lord of your castle, and the castle going by the name of your lord. If I named my Keep Gwaer, it's because I envision myself pulling the strings from inside the keep and being the vain person I am I refer to my keep as Keep Gwaer.

Then I can make a hero Gwaer of Gwaer, and now I'm like colin macleod of the clan macleod. It'll be fine I'm sure =P

Yoss
09-27-2013, 01:17 PM
I'm totally with the OP on this.

Livewire
09-27-2013, 01:18 PM
Just think of it as naming the lord of your castle, and the castle going by the name of your lord. If I named my Keep Gwaer, it's because I envision myself pulling the strings from inside the keep and being the vain person I am I refer to my keep as Keep Gwaer.

Then I can make a hero Gwaer of Gwaer, and now I'm like colin macleod of the clan macleod. It'll be fine I'm sure =P

But thats not the same issue, a lot of people want to use there name in chat, so they want to use "Gwaer" but they also dont want ALL there cards to be ruined for ever by having silly nonsensicle naming conventions. It might be ok for some users, your name for example sounds like a race of creatures, so "Demon Imp of Gwaer" is ok, but if my name is ChickenDipper I dont want "Demon Imp of ChickenDipper" ... but I am cool with that being my name in chat.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 01:19 PM
Realistically, I'm probably going to end up levelling Nagatta of Moik with the current implementation.
I understand it given that I'm from MacLeod of Lewis (there is no MacLeod of MacLeod, you could go with MacLeod of Harris though).
I just don't like the sound of Moik as a place name. As context, Moik is about as dignified and valorous as Jimbob or Stevedave. It's a rural name.

Yoss
09-27-2013, 01:20 PM
But thats not the same issue, a lot of people want to use there name in chat, so they want to use "Gwaer" but they also dont want ALL there cards to be ruined for ever by having silly nonsensicle naming conventions. It might be ok for some users, your name for example sounds like a race of creatures, so "Demon Imp of Gwaer" is ok, but if my name is ChickenDipper I dont want "Demon Imp of ChickenDipper" ... but I am cool with that being my name in chat.
Since when are items going to have your name on them? They're just items. It's your CHAMPIONS that will have your keep name appended.

EDIT: Also keep in mind (pun indended) that there will be multiple keeps per account. I'd like to be able to have a different name for each keep.

Aradon
09-27-2013, 01:22 PM
I want to clarify that only champions will be appended with your keep name. Cards/spells you play will not have your keep name attached.

Livewire
09-27-2013, 01:22 PM
Since when are items going to have your name on them? They're just items. It's your CHAMPIONS that will have your keep name appended.

EDIT: Also keep in mind (pun indended) that there will be multiple keeps per account. I'd like to be able to have a different name for each keep.

" treasure will all be called “_______ of Celendor”."

Truhls
09-27-2013, 01:22 PM
Since when are items going to have your name on them? They're just items. It's your CHAMPIONS that will have your keep name appended.

EDIT: Also keep in mind (pun indended) that there will be multiple keeps per account. I'd like to be able to have a different name for each keep.

I thought at some point they mentioned if you maxed out a cards back it would get an imprint of your name on it somewhere for maxing it out.

Aradon
09-27-2013, 01:24 PM
" treasure will all be called “_______ of Celendor”."

The full context of that statement is "... the champions I create [...] will all be called “_______ of Celendor”."

Livewire
09-27-2013, 01:27 PM
Oh sorry, I read it with the meaning that "The champions and the treasure will be called " _ of Celendor"."

Hmm I still don't like that I will have my "keep" name as a kind of army name, I would rather be Livewire in chat, with a character called Livewire of Doom (or something less generic but u get the point).

Mr.Funsocks
09-27-2013, 01:27 PM
Gwaer - it works with your name. "Timothy of Mr.Funsocks" just sounds dumb...

DarkShoal
09-27-2013, 01:29 PM
Agree with the OP this is a problematic policy that needs to be changed. They also need to consider the effect starting players post-release not realizing that 'Keep' name == their name could have in potentially opening themselves up for harassment.

Anything that has the potential to drive newbies away from an MMO is something to be reconsidered.

Livewire
09-27-2013, 01:30 PM
Gwaer - it works with your name. "Timothy of Mr.Funsocks" just sounds dumb...

This is also assuming you can use a "." "Timothy of MrFunsocks" "Timothy of Mrfunsocks" or "Timothy of Funsocks" would make it even worse :/ they also havn't said a char.length , I am sure some people are going to be super annoyed if they have to cap there name or remove special characters.

ossuary
09-27-2013, 01:31 PM
Think of it like this... you are the master of the keep (or castle), and the keep is named after you. Like how Toad Hall is named after Mister Toad. :)

It only really gets weird if you insist on also having a champion with your name. "You are now fighting ossuary of Keep Ossuary." Yeah, that's weird. ;)

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 01:33 PM
I have some amazing keep name ideas, and am super excited about this.

Livewire
09-27-2013, 01:34 PM
Think of it like this... you are the master of the keep (or castle), and the keep is named after you. Like how Toad Hall is named after Mister Toad. :)

It only really gets weird if you insist on also having a champion with your name. "You are now fighting ossuary of Keep Ossuary." Yeah, that's weird. ;)

But that is just the exact point. Show me an MMO gamer who doesn't have a main character with his standard name, even if he has other names I bet most play/focus the one they first made / has there name. I know that I main Livewire on most games, or variants of that if its taken, Livewyre for example. I really don't want Livewire of Livewire, of Livewyre of Livewire, or Livewire of Livewyre ...but I really really want to be Livewire in chat/pvp ...

Truhls
09-27-2013, 01:34 PM
Think of it like this... you are the master of the keep (or castle), and the keep is named after you. Like how Toad Hall is named after Mister Toad. :)

It only really gets weird if you insist on also having a champion with your name. "You are now fighting ossuary of Keep Ossuary." Yeah, that's weird. ;)

You dont seem to understand. I want my Chat name, and friends list name to be Truhls. I want my keep name to follow like what you are talking about. Currently my keep name would be "Keep Truhls " or "Keep of Truhls " which sounds shitty, just for the sake of having my chat name my usual name. If i change my name so my keep actually sounds decent, i lose my online identity ive been using for over 10 years, and not a single friend will know my name.

hex_colin
09-27-2013, 01:36 PM
All CZE needs to do is to allow us to choose a "chat nickname" that supersedes the Keep name in chat. Problem solved. I can have my keep name "OMGAwesomeKeepName" but show up as "Colin" in chat.

Zophie
09-27-2013, 01:36 PM
I wrote this in another thread but I completely agree with the OP. They need to at least allow us to assign some kind of leader persona to our keep, and allow this to display in chat as "Leadername of Keepname". I think I have a decent keep name in mind that I like, but I don't think I like the idea of being referred to by my keep's name as opposed to my own name.

I get what CZE is going for with this, and it's a nice concept for gameplay purposes, but I don't think it meshes well with the social side of this game

Barov
09-27-2013, 01:36 PM
I certainly was not expecting this name system, so I will have to rethink my choices. It doesn't really bother me and its kinda nice to see a unique take on the naming system, but I can see why some people find it less than ideal.

Lochar
09-27-2013, 01:37 PM
Honestly, the reason I don't like the login=Keep name thing is because it gives away half the combo needed to steal my account.

That, and yeah. Lochar of Keep Lochar sounds stupid.

If it comes down to it, I'll probably pick 'issingMeOff' as my keep name.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 01:40 PM
I think Keep Truhls sounds fine =/

Livewire
09-27-2013, 01:41 PM
I think Keep Truhls sounds fine =/

Until he makes his main character Truhls and becomes Truhls of Truhls :/

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 01:42 PM
Character names don't really matter, he could be anything of Truhls, you'd still see Truhls online, and that's who you would see chatting.

Lazybum
09-27-2013, 01:44 PM
hmm guess keep name lazybum would be odd, might have to go with something like bumville, that way i can follow my WOW naming style and use lazybum, homelessbum etc etc and they will make a little more sense

Mr.Funsocks
09-27-2013, 01:46 PM
All CZE needs to do is to allow us to choose a "chat nickname" that supersedes the Keep name in chat. Problem solved. I can have my keep name "OMGAwesomeKeepName" but show up as "Colin" in chat.

^

What he said. All we're saying is a separate chat name from keep name. I'd love to have my keep name appended to my chat name, so when I win a tournament, I get my cards tagged with "Mr.Funsocks of The Keep of Awesome".

Livewire
09-27-2013, 01:47 PM
How bout extreme examples of name comboing that you can't restrict.

Here is a possible combo and I can think of tons more potentially offensive phrases that are far worse that I won't be typing on the forum, but use your imagination.

Keep name : Germany
Character name: Hitler

Both would probably make it past a chat filter on there own, I know people with the surname Hitler, so they may want to use that for example.

BUT

Hitler of Germany : Someone might take offence.

Chat filtering one set of data - easy, chat filtering a combo, much much harder and time consuming.

Edit: Here's a potentially super offensive one.
Keep: Ile
Name: Ped
Ped Of Ile

Gorgol
09-27-2013, 01:47 PM
All CZE needs to do is to allow us to choose a "chat nickname" that supersedes the Keep name in chat. Problem solved. I can have my keep name "OMGAwesomeKeepName" but show up as "Colin" in chat.
This

RElapse
09-27-2013, 01:50 PM
All CZE needs to do is to allow us to choose a "chat nickname" that supersedes the Keep name in chat. Problem solved. I can have my keep name "OMGAwesomeKeepName" but show up as "Colin" in chat.

this is key!!!

now how does the guild fit in to this, i imagine it will be something like

Champion name of keepname from guild name

thoughts?

The_Wine_Gnat
09-27-2013, 01:51 PM
CZE, you dropped the ball on this one. If it's not intuitive, why implement it? Go back to the drawing board regarding usernames, keepnames, and community names. If you don't you run the risk of people judging all the hard work you put into creating a great game like Hex simply based on a confusing naming policy.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 02:02 PM
It's really not that confusing =/

sukebe
09-27-2013, 02:07 PM
It boggles my mind what some people can complain about. If you always use the same name on MMOs use that for your keep name. I hate to say it but (to me) most of your names (at least on these forums) dont sound any better as names for people than they do for places. If you want to be known by a specific name, then name your keep that. I have seen many MMO games that use a system similar to this (though they used a single name for your Family/last name instead of a keep or kingdom).

It isnt that hard to figure out plus the screen where you choose your keep name SPECIFICALLY says that this is what you will be known as. It does not seem like something that newbs would be surprised by unless they decide not to read anything while they set up their account.

sukebe
09-27-2013, 02:10 PM
Honestly, the reason I don't like the login=Keep name thing is because it gives away half the combo needed to steal my account.

That, and yeah. Lochar of Keep Lochar sounds stupid.

If it comes down to it, I'll probably pick 'issingMeOff' as my keep name.

where does it say that your keep name = your login id? I reread the article and do not see that anywhere.

houjix
09-27-2013, 02:12 PM
They could always change it too.

Will said in the article thread that the keep name is really your Lord or Lady name. They could simply change it to. Bob, Warrior for Lord Houjix. Right away you would be able to tell what class he is too.

hex_colin
09-27-2013, 02:13 PM
where does it say that your keep name = your login id? I reread the article and do not see that anywhere.

It doesn't. Your login will be your KS/PayPal email address.

Zophie
09-27-2013, 02:15 PM
Yeah, I'd prefer if they just had us name the Lord or Lady of our Keep to use as our unique playername in chat, and then also let us name the Keep itself for further customization.

Idus
09-27-2013, 02:15 PM
All CZE needs to do is to allow us to choose a "chat nickname" that supersedes the Keep name in chat. Problem solved. I can have my keep name "OMGAwesomeKeepName" but show up as "Colin" in chat.

That was my first thought too, the only issue is uniqueness. Chat names I assume will be global, so while not necessarily needing to be unique, it could be confusing if they aren't. Putting the full "Lloyd of London" naming in chat instea dof just Lloyd would get too long I imagine. One solution might be just to show Lloyd, but as a tooltip hover over the name and show the full unique descriptor.

Just as a counterpoint to the "think of it as a surname" justification, this still does not work for me. Take the classic Arthurian convention

It's Arthur of Camelot, not Arthur of Pendragon. When people talk with him, they certainly don't call him Camelot, except maybe in 3rd person, which is very impersonal. A enemy may call him Pendragon, but generally conversation refers to him as Arthur.

ErwinVonRommel
09-27-2013, 02:17 PM
All CZE needs to do is to allow us to choose a "chat nickname" that supersedes the Keep name in chat. Problem solved. I can have my keep name "OMGAwesomeKeepName" but show up as "Colin" in chat.

+1

/signed

Svenn
09-27-2013, 02:18 PM
I REALLY hope they consider letting us use a nickname or something. It's probably too late to change for Alpha, but hopefully by beta they can have something in. My online alias is "Svenn Ethir" (or usually just "Svenn") but Keep Svenn, Svenn of Svenn, Gozzog of Svenn, etc are all terrible names. I could go by Keep Ethir and be "Svenn of Ethir" which sounds fine... except that my display name in chat, friends list, etc would all be "Ethir" and none of my friends would know who that is.

Gorgol
09-27-2013, 02:20 PM
Just as a counterpoint to the "think of it as a surname" justification, this still does not work for me. Take the classic Arthurian convention

It's Arthur of Camelot, not Arthur of Pendragon. When people talk with him, they certainly don't call him Camelot, except maybe in 3rd person, which is very impersonal. A enemy may call him Pendragon, but generally conversation refers to him as Arthur.

Perfect explanation. This is why I have such an issue with it.

MaxtionHero
09-27-2013, 02:37 PM
I would be a fan of the nickname for chat. It just feels awkward having a keep named the same as my character name so it's viewed that way in chat.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 02:42 PM
Then name your character something else. Character names aren't really meaningful. People you're in matches with will see the character name, but they'll know the suffix is how to reach you.

Autzen
09-27-2013, 02:44 PM
I was (and still am) looking forward the the naming covention. Hasn't it been known for a while now that your Keep name was going to be you account identifier? I think it's a creative system that distinguishes itself from other games. How about we give it a try before calling for changes? After all, Alphas exist not just to find bugs, but to also provide early feedback AFTER you have tried the features.

Zophie
09-27-2013, 02:47 PM
I was hoping for something more like this:

1058

Both the lord/lady name and the keep name can be unique, the lord/lady name is used in chat, viewing the details of the player or mousing over their name might show the keep name, and your champions can still rally under the lord/lady as "NonuniqueChampionname of Keepname".

It still might not be perfect for everything but I think that would help the social aspect of the game a bit more.

GhundiPI
09-27-2013, 02:53 PM
From what I've read previously about keeps I had already expected this kind of implementation. While I do understand that some may experience some issues with it being done this way, I see plenty of ways to use pretty much any nickname for your keep, just be a little creative...

Xenavire
09-27-2013, 02:58 PM
I was never under the impression it would work like this, and I am somewhat dissapointed. I had a chat name (account name) and a keep name (in fact multiple keep names) ready and waiting, and having it like this means none of them will work well.

I can live with it, but it feels a little counter intuitive. I want my account to be "Name of Keep" and my champions to be "Champion of keep". That way people can find me by my keep name, and chat to me with my account name. It also means I can keep a little privacy if I need to.

Just a bit of a shame.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 02:59 PM
Can't be creative unless I want my guildmates to re-associate me with a different name.
My Keep needs to be "Moik" unless I want to disorient my guildmates in chat. "Moik" is a very rustic name you would give to a smelt shack at best.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 03:03 PM
Unless you were a rural man named Moik, that rose to command a mighty keep, and kept your name for both irony, and to teach the jerks that made fun of your rustic name a lesson.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 03:05 PM
In real life, yes, I would make the Bubba Gump Shrimpin' Co. Unless my Keep can be reskinned as a barbarian camp, I find it too inconsistent and immersion-breaking.

Also, CZE: Keep Skin IAP pls. I would pay ten bux to be a barbarian camp if you make me call my keep Moik.

Deciphered
09-27-2013, 03:06 PM
Just chiming in to say that I am another one of those people who had planned on picking a username that would sound awful as a keep name. I'd really like the option to have my chat name be a separate decision.

sukebe
09-27-2013, 03:35 PM
That was my first thought too, the only issue is uniqueness. Chat names I assume will be global, so while not necessarily needing to be unique, it could be confusing if they aren't. Putting the full "Lloyd of London" naming in chat instea dof just Lloyd would get too long I imagine. One solution might be just to show Lloyd, but as a tooltip hover over the name and show the full unique descriptor.

Just as a counterpoint to the "think of it as a surname" justification, this still does not work for me. Take the classic Arthurian convention

It's Arthur of Camelot, not Arthur of Pendragon. When people talk with him, they certainly don't call him Camelot, except maybe in 3rd person, which is very impersonal. A enemy may call him Pendragon, but generally conversation refers to him as Arthur.

I wasnt actually saying "think of it as a surname". I only mentioned that several MMO games have used a system similar to this and gave an example.

I still fail to see why it is so hard to understand this and work with it. I (and apparently others) have been assuming this was how it would work for a while now based on what they have said in the past.

Personally I hope they dont change this. It is a good way to handle keeps and characters.

Tinuvas
09-27-2013, 03:36 PM
I was (and still am) looking forward the the naming convention. Hasn't it been known for a while now that your Keep name was going to be you account identifier? I think it's a creative system that distinguishes itself from other games. How about we give it a try before calling for changes? After all, Alphas exist not just to find bugs, but to also provide early feedback AFTER you have tried the features.

I agree with this. I for one will be spending considerable brain power over the next couple of weeks coming up with a sweet keep name that I want to see in chat. I have had the same name in games since about 20 years ago, and I look on this as a challenge. While I don't expect everyone to have that view of things, I'm excited about the naming convention. Unique, and a fun idea.

The_Wine_Gnat
09-27-2013, 03:45 PM
It just occurred to me that some of the most ideal names are adjectives:

<Champion name> of:
Destruction
Love
Irony
Sarcasm
Paramount
Unbroken
Rich
Poor
Beautiful
Fugly
Drunk

Though nouns also do present some interesting varieties. A-la Anchorman anyone?

<Champion name> of:
Lamp
Carpet
Table
Wall

Now that I've realized this, I'm having a blast thinking of a keep name.

Xenavire
09-27-2013, 03:47 PM
The issue is not so simple though. I have Xenavire as a screen name on forums, including here and my guilds forums, and several other places that people know me from. While people who know me would have an easy time of it, if I choose anything other than Xenavire (and I feel like I have to) any new guild members will be confused when seeing me outside of the game. They would be used to a completely different screen-name.

This all seems so messy for people who have established identities within the Hex community. New players won't have such a big problem with it.

Idus
09-27-2013, 03:49 PM
I wasnt actually saying "think of it as a surname". I only mentioned that several MMO games have used a system similar to this and gave an example.


Sorry I wasn't referring to your comment, but the reply on Kickstarter from Crypto to think of it as "Lore and Lady <keepname>". The very act of putting the word "of" in between, makes the keep reference a place name, not a surname. i don't think anyone has an issue with the keep name itself, it's the fact it's also the chat name. It's always been clear that the keep name was our unique identifier for the account, but I guess everyone just assumed we could somehow have our character names to identify us to others in the game while chatting.

This is especially important to those of us already in guilds, who likely have joined with our preferred character names, and now look like we will need a secret decoder ring so we can cross reference the people we talk to in chat against those who we already know by other names as our guild mates. It's not unworkable, just could have been simpler.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 03:51 PM
Having all of your characters be CharacterName of Xenavire isn't the end of the world. Xenavire isn't a bad keep name to begin with.

In the end though, those of us with incredible fame may just have to decide if it's worth marking ourselves in game for all time anyway.

Maphalux
09-27-2013, 03:52 PM
I can see Xenavire being a name of a barony or something. It actually sounds pretty good.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 03:54 PM
@Wine_Gnat
Good call! I might try to go with "God".
Also, wtf is a Wine Gnat? Is it like a Tequila Worm?

dogmod
09-27-2013, 03:55 PM
Having all of your characters be CharacterName of Xenavire isn't the end of the world. Xenavire isn't a bad keep name to begin with.

In the end though, those of us with incredible fame may just have to decide if it's worth marking ourselves in game for all time anyway.

This really made me chuckle.

Xenavire
09-27-2013, 03:56 PM
Having all of your characters be CharacterName of Xenavire isn't the end of the world. Xenavire isn't a bad keep name to begin with.

In the end though, those of us with incredible fame may just have to decide if it's worth marking ourselves in game for all time anyway.

But Xenavire doesn't sound good as a keep name to me. Far from it. Nor do I want any locations named after my screen name. Which is exactly the problem - I want my account name to be Xenavire, my keep to be something else, and my champions using names from my personal creations. So my chat name would have been nice and simple.

Regardless, I have a substitute lined up, but I feel like I will regret it, and I should never have to feel like that about a name. Its just as bad as the new youtube updates trying to force you to use your google+ account name (which frustrated me so much I just about broke something valuable).

I just feel like it is too limiting for people who like to express themselves creatively. And, far less importantly, all my other names I had lined up will be going to waste, and I was excited about using them for my keep.

Shadowelf
09-27-2013, 03:57 PM
Yeap i think that Xenavire doesn't actually sound that bad; i will for example be Zoltog of Shadowelf. It kinda sounds like i'm married to that guy :p

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 04:01 PM
Yeap i think that Xenavire doesn't actually sound that bad; i will for example be Zoltog of Shadowelf. It kinda sounds like i'm married to that guy :p
Hahaha! I'll send you a nice wedding present.

hex_colin
09-27-2013, 04:02 PM
I'm actually keeping my accounts separate anyway. I figure I'll have one that's obviously me (anyone steals my name and I will hunt them down!!! ;)), but I'll also have one that'll have a much better game name that I'll use as a focus for my PVE efforts.

BossHoss
09-27-2013, 04:03 PM
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As far as keep/character names, clearly the community feels strongly about this and we'll be going through the different opinions, discussions on this throughout the weekend.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 04:04 PM
Yaaay!
If I could send a puppy party in the mail to CZE I would.

BossHoss
09-27-2013, 04:07 PM
http://youtu.be/BNIHVhpZFkQ

There you go...

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 04:07 PM
I for one hope they don't change it. This is how I've understood it to work since they first announced keeps. I've got so many good keep names! =P

Xenavire
09-27-2013, 04:08 PM
Oh, thats something I missed Colin, thanks for reminding me. Using screen names to 'Roleplay' with would be fairly unsatisfying. I mean sitting in a dungeon as Agathor of Moofsgonewild would be pretty immersion breaking - anyone making a joke name and getting serious at a later date would regret it.

MoonSohn
09-27-2013, 04:28 PM
I AM Mr.Funsocks, but my keep probably won't be.

Mister of Funsocks isn't terrible

chromus
09-27-2013, 04:30 PM
This is when all the RP & lore fanatics come out and cry. I don't mean to be insensitive but please... This does not affect the gameplay or functionality whatsoever. Props to CZE for trying something innovative. To the OP: Surely, you have a way to communicate with your friends other than attempt to find them by their game-names in each new game that comes out...

Xenavire
09-27-2013, 04:43 PM
This is when all the RP & lore fanatics come out and cry. I don't mean to be insensitive but please... This does not affect the gameplay or functionality whatsoever. Props to CZE for trying something innovative. To the OP: Surely, you have a way to communicate with your friends other than attempt to find them by their game-names in each new game that comes out...

This does affect you in-game as well. Anyone you meet has to memorise several screen names if they contact you outside of the game.

chromus
09-27-2013, 04:54 PM
To my understanding, they only need to know your keep name to contact you in-game. If someone wants to contact you outside of the game, they need more info anyways such as email address,etc.. Or are we all using "Xenavire@gmail.com" type addresses. :)

Miwa
09-27-2013, 04:54 PM
Doesn't matter at all. Will use my account name as planned. It's just an account name, and the rest is role play frippery. They could've called your Keep your garbage can, or your account holder, or whatever else they felt like that day and it wouldn't matter at all.

Xenavire
09-27-2013, 05:14 PM
To my understanding, they only need to know your keep name to contact you in-game. If someone wants to contact you outside of the game, they need more info anyways such as email address,etc.. Or are we all using "Xenavire@gmail.com" type addresses. :)

Hey, shush now. I actually do have an email (that I don't use, currently) registered at gmail with Xenavire. But I don't need it spread around haha.

But if someone wants to contact you outside the game (for example, steam) then they need your details, and theres a good chance they would differ from what you have in Hex, thanks to the account/keep interaction. So it just makes more sense to have an account level name to default to, if nothing else. They can always add options to use keep or champ names in chat (and they could enforce them being unique if needed.)

Anyway, any smartarse that tries to email me at that address is out of luck, I last checked it years ago.

Lazybum
09-27-2013, 05:15 PM
dunno im torn on this really wanted lazybum to my in game/chat name but making that my keep name just sounds a bit odd when naming other toons/champions. will have to see if anything changes in the next week or so

Truhls
09-27-2013, 05:29 PM
This is when all the RP & lore fanatics come out and cry. I don't mean to be insensitive but please... This does not affect the gameplay or functionality whatsoever. Props to CZE for trying something innovative. To the OP: Surely, you have a way to communicate with your friends other than attempt to find them by their game-names in each new game that comes out...
Yes because having random friends try games who i had no idea were playing the same game as me randomly try to message me and find out im playing, will totally work with keep names. Oh wait, no it wont. Not only that i would have to physically go and find everyone ive ever played with and give them my new name that i would be FORCED to use. I dont know about you but im part of a multi gaming guild with over 3000 members. Im playing FF14 with just over 400 active members on our server. Having to give them all my new ID would be a serious pain in the ass.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 05:33 PM
Or just use whatever name you're most known by as your keep name, and say screw how it sounds with other champs? Or just name your characters Minion, servant, vassal, etc and use your keep name as a person name, and have your nameless peons. There's hundreds of ways to overcome the problem if you stop whining long enough to think about it.

Xenavire
09-27-2013, 05:36 PM
Or just use whatever name you're most known by as your keep name, and say screw how it sounds with other champs? Or just name your characters Minion, servant, vassal, etc and use your keep name as a person name, and have your nameless peons. There's hundreds of ways to overcome the problem if you stop whining long enough to think about it.

Or it could be, you know, optional. If it isn't fun for people, why force it on them? A name is a big deal when all communication is done via text.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 05:39 PM
If the name is the only concern you could literally be Xenavire. Everyone will contact Xenavire, they'll message Xenavire.

Name your character Minion of Xenavire, Servant of Xenavire, Emissary of Xenavire. The only people that will see those names are people you're actively in a game with at that moment, all messaging will still be done directly to Xenavire. Effectively, your name at that point is just Xenavire.

dredcrow
09-27-2013, 05:39 PM
I think it would be better if there was a possessive apostrophe amended to the end of your Keep name followed by the word "Keep" when it is displayed in relation to champions etc. This is actually how I imagined it would work.

Example: Charactername of DREDCROW's Keep.

There would be no apostrophe in chat of course.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 05:43 PM
Hand of Moik is a kinda k champ name.
Gozzog of Moik is still unappealing to me.
Stopped whining. Thought. Didn't solve it.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 05:44 PM
Then don't name your character Gozzog. The only thing that does is make it immediately clear what champ you're using in that pvp match. It's not going to be an identifier in any way fashion or form.

chromus
09-27-2013, 05:44 PM
My apologies then. :) I have clearly underestimated the size & variety of the gaming communities people are part of. I could definitely see this being a huge pain...unless your keep name is your game ID.

There are so many ways to be creative in this though. For example, you can name your keep Chromus and your champions "Squire", "Balls", "Dozens", "Triplets", "Boss", "Blingz" etc etc...

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 05:45 PM
Not saying it's a bad identifier.
Saying it looks silly.

Lazybum
09-27-2013, 05:45 PM
Or just use whatever name you're most known by as your keep name, and say screw how it sounds with other champs? Or just name your characters Minion, servant, vassal, etc and use your keep name as a person name, and have your nameless peons. There's hundreds of ways to overcome the problem if you stop whining long enough to think about it.

first alot cant just say screw it, and 2nd telling people to stop whining prob was the nicest way to go about it. i can see both sides and personally im not sure how i feel about the keep name being what we are know by since all our champions have to to " of keep name"

Jinxies
09-27-2013, 05:47 PM
I really like the keep name idea and will be incredibly disapointed if they cave in to the complaints and change it. The arguments against it that I've seen so far are incredibly minor.

Xenavire
09-27-2013, 05:47 PM
If the name is the only concern you could literally be Xenavire. Everyone will contact Xenavire, they'll message Xenavire.

Name your character Minion of Xenavire, Servant of Xenavire, Emissary of Xenavire. The only people that will see those names are people you're actively in a game with at that moment, all messaging will still be done directly to Xenavire. Effectively, your name at that point is just Xenavire.

Sorry, but I find 'Xenavire' as a keep name to be tacky. I have much better names lined up, but I have to sacrifice my creativity to keep my identity.

And I will be interacting with my keep a fair amount, so it would be hard to stomach.

Svenn
09-27-2013, 05:47 PM
Then don't name your character Gozzog. The only thing that does is make it immediately clear what champ you're using in that pvp match. It's not going to be an identifier in any way fashion or form.

From what I understand, you don't get to name your champ for PvP, only PvE. You MUST be "Gozzog of KeepName".

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 05:52 PM
From what I understand, you don't get to name your champ for PvP, only PvE. You MUST be "Gozzog of KeepName".
Right, everyone will be using Gozzog in pvp, or whatever other champ they pick. That name however has no bearing outside of that match. All it is doing is telling your opponent at the loading screen which champ you're using. It has no bearing on the game beyond that. If they just made pvp not have your champ name attached to your keep name, and put Gozzog above your keep name with a picture of the champ it would be exactly the same.

Deciphered
09-27-2013, 05:56 PM
Just as an aside to this conversation:

Telling people to "stop whining" is condescending and dismissive. These are forums, they are specifically for talking. Just because people are saying something that you don't agree with, does not mean that they are whining, or being crybabies, or any other thing you want to label them with. As a point of fact, their speech is no better or worse than your speech. If you are unhappy with what they are saying, and you cannot find a rational way to disagree with them, then I would suggest that you don't read in this thread anymore, rather than showing up and insulting people.

Captain_Obvious
09-27-2013, 06:04 PM
Well you can all officially recognize me as Erjin from now on:
Barry McHawken of Erjin
Bjorn of Erjin
Steele of Erjin
Lyke of Erjin
Luke Engfore of Erjin
Witch Eyewas of Erjin
Pro Statute not of Erjin
Bear Lee of Erjin
Toe Tally of Erjin
Four Tiers Oldanstill of Erjin

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 06:05 PM
Haha, have you been working on those since someone posted Barry earlier?

Ginaz
09-27-2013, 06:05 PM
Think I'll name mine Foshizzle of Mynizzle.:rolleyes:

Really, though, this doesn't make sense to me. Why should anything pve related effect pvp? You're essentially forcing the players that will spend close to 90%-100% of their time doing pvp (and I can assure you, there are a lot of people who don't care one bit about pve) into having a stupid sounding on screen name. There's no good reason why we can't have a universal screen name (ie. Ginaz) rather than an awkward sounding name that is there for pve RP reasons (Ginaz of Ginaz). I mean, my name isn't too bad for a keep but I always name my first character in any game (MMO or single player) Ginaz. I do plan on spending some time playing the pve portion of game so having Ginaz of Ginaz staring me in the face all the time is not appealing. It just sounds dumb.

Idus
09-27-2013, 06:06 PM
Other considerations that I'm not 100% sure are, what is displayed on Leaderboards and the double back(if anything). Will it be just the keep name, or will the champion name be included as well. If the champion name is also there, then some of the creative naming suggestions above may not be what you want to see on leaderboards etc. I would think it's probably just the keep name, but, especially in PvE, there may be reasons to include the champion name as well.

Captain_Obvious
09-27-2013, 06:07 PM
Haha, have you been working on those since someone posted Barry earlier?

That `twas I who posted that, and judging by Barry`s name I think he does all the posting! ;-p

Captain_Obvious
09-27-2013, 06:09 PM
...

Off Topic:

PLEASE tell me you are from somewhere in Virginia

Ginaz
09-27-2013, 06:11 PM
Off Topic:

PLEASE tell me you are from somewhere in Virginia

No, not even close. Why?

Truhls
09-27-2013, 06:11 PM
Off Topic:

PLEASE tell me you are from somewhere in Virginia

Their name should be Vir from keep Ginaz

Ginaz
09-27-2013, 06:12 PM
Their name should be Vir from keep Ginaz

Ha!

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 06:12 PM
A player who is just planning on PVP doesn't need to have any special considerations for their keep name. They just name it as normal and it doesn't matter.

Ginaz of Ginaz, is only a problem if you make it one, Technically you've named your keep Ginaz already, so skip naming your first character Ginaz? Anything else of Ginaz would probably be fine, it's a better keep name than Shadowelf anyway.

Captain_Obvious
09-27-2013, 06:12 PM
No, not even close. Why?

Virginia United States: State shortened to VA

I have trouble not seeing VA Ginaz, No disresprect as it is my mind that is warped

malloc31
09-27-2013, 06:17 PM
I totally agree with this (or letting each player choose which convention they want to display, the same way you choose mr or mrs in forms.)

Also you ccould have the choice of either Champion of "charactername", or the or "charactername"'s Champion.


I think it would be better if there was a possessive apostrophe amended to the end of your Keep name followed by the word "Keep" when it is displayed in relation to characters etc. This is actually how I imagined it would work.

Example: Charactername of DREDCROW's Keep.

There would be no apostrophe in chat of course.

Ginaz
09-27-2013, 06:30 PM
Virginia United States: State shortened to VA

I have trouble not seeing VA Ginaz, No disresprect as it is my mind that is warped

Lol Va of Ginaz!;)

Xtopher
09-27-2013, 06:37 PM
If I choose the name Xtopher, I wouldn't mind if the keep were then named Xtopher's Keep. Characters could be Xtopher of Xtopher's Keep, Bill of Xtopher's Keep, etc.

It really just comes down to how it's programmed to read within the client.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 06:42 PM
If I choose the name Xtopher, I wouldn't mind if the keep were then named Xtopher's Keep. Characters could be Xtopher of Xtopher's Keep, Bill of Xtopher's Keep, etc.

It really just comes down to how it's programmed to read within the client.
If that would really make people feel better then I'd think that's a pretty easy fix. Any nays on being happy with that?

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 06:47 PM
I'd be k with that.

Idus
09-27-2013, 06:47 PM
Well that turns it from a place name to the name of a place, and then assuming it's just the name displayed in chat, then that seems workable. But then the people who wanted an actual place name may not like it.

Showsni
09-27-2013, 06:50 PM
Personally, I'm surprised so many people are such avid roleplayers! I'd have thought that most people really wouldn't care what their PvE champion's home was called next to the consideration of what they want their chat name to be. I mean, we've got people posting things like "they're forcing us to choose silly sounding chat names" - but that's only if you care about the role playing of your home keep.

You can pick any name for your account/chat name. This will also be the name of your keep, so that any PvE champions you make will fight under your banner. Sounds fine to me... Though I can understand having an option for a seperate chat identifier for people who really want one.

malloc31
09-27-2013, 06:58 PM
I don't think it has to do with role playing, I don't care about role playing, but I still don't want things I need to constantly look at sound stupid. There is a big difference in naming a place and naming a person, almost all, if not all games let you name your self like a person. Making people choose place names for them selves is just very against conventions; and since many people have screen names they have used a long time they should be able to use with out making all their PVP stuff sound stupid.


Personally, I'm surprised so many people are such avid roleplayers! I'd have thought that most people really wouldn't care what their PvE champion's home was called next to the consideration of what they want their chat name to be. I mean, we've got people posting things like "they're forcing us to choose silly sounding chat names" - but that's only if you care about the role playing of your home keep.

You can pick any name for your account/chat name. This will also be the name of your keep, so that any PvE champions you make will fight under your banner. Sounds fine to me... Though I can understand having an option for a seperate chat identifier for people who really want one.

Showsni
09-27-2013, 07:05 PM
I don't think it has to do with role playing, I don't care about role playing, but I still don't want things I need to constantly look at sound stupid. There is a big difference in naming a place and naming a person, almost all, if not all games let you name your self like a person. Making people choose place names for them selves is just very against conventions; and since many people have screen names they have used a long time they should be able to use with out making all their PVP stuff sound stupid.

Don't call yourself a placename, then. Where are other people even going to see your keepname? In Keep Defence mode (where "Attack Keep Malloc" sounds fine anyway), during games in multiplayer PvE and... is that it?

ursa23
09-27-2013, 07:13 PM
So I really like the keep name idea. But I don't have an established gaming persona, so that argument doesn't matter much to me. I feel as if there are perfectly good compromises here: either "username's keep" or a unique username as well as keep name. Possibly allowing a toggle between the two in chat.

Svenn
09-27-2013, 07:17 PM
Don't call yourself a placename, then. Where are other people even going to see your keepname? In Keep Defence mode (where "Attack Keep Malloc" sounds fine anyway), during games in multiplayer PvE and... is that it?

Your Keep name is what you are identified by everywhere. The choices now are:
1) Name yourself a normal online alias/identity. Example: Svenn (my usual online identity). This means my characters would be things like "Gozzog of Svenn" and people looking at my keep would see a keep named Svenn, which is awkward.
2) Name yourself a place/last name. Example: Ethir (a last name I sometimes use for my characters). This means my characters could be "Svenn of Ethir" which is fine. However, in chat, friends list, and anywhere else I am identified I will be going by Ethir, which is not the name I want for myself.

Neither one of these are ideal. Either my keep name and character names associated with it sound awkward, or I don't get to be my usual online identity that I've been using for 14+ years. Some people might not personally care that their character is something silly like "Svenn of Svenn" but clearly quite a few of us are just not happy with that.

Now is the time to let Crypto know that we are not happy with that naming scheme, before anything is released. It might be a bit late to get it changed for start of Alpha, but it's something they could change this early on still.

tehhuntre
09-27-2013, 07:25 PM
Your Keep name is what you are identified by everywhere. The choices now are:
1) Name yourself a normal online alias/identity. Example: Svenn (my usual online identity). This means my characters would be things like "Gozzog of Svenn" and people looking at my keep would see a keep named Svenn, which is awkward.
2) Name yourself a place/last name. Example: Ethir (a last name I sometimes use for my characters). This means my characters could be "Svenn of Ethir" which is fine. However, in chat, friends list, and anywhere else I am identified I will be going by Ethir, which is not the name I want for myself.

Neither one of these are ideal. Either my keep name and character names associated with it sound awkward, or I don't get to be my usual online identity that I've been using for 14+ years. Some people might not personally care that their character is something silly like "Svenn of Svenn" but clearly quite a few of us are just not happy with that.

Now is the time to let Crypto know that we are not happy with that naming scheme, before anything is released. It might be a bit late to get it changed for start of Alpha, but it's something they could change this early on still.

This

DreamPuppet
09-27-2013, 07:29 PM
It can't be that hard to let people choose both a screen name & a keep name.

It should be an extremely easy fix to something that a lot of people obviously take more seriously than CZE thought they would.

Xtopher
09-27-2013, 07:33 PM
If I choose the name Xtopher, I wouldn't mind if the keep were then named Xtopher's Keep. Characters could be Xtopher of Xtopher's Keep, Bill of Xtopher's Keep, etc.

It really just comes down to how it's programmed to read within the client.
Apologies in advance for the self-quote...

In addition, if we had a choice of synonym's for keep... Xtopher's Castle, Xtopher's Bailey, Xtopher's Hall, Xtopher's Duchy, etc. Or even better, a ranking system for the structure, so it starts at Keep, then Castle, etc. as you achieve certain things in game, that would break up the monotony of seeing the word Keep repeatedly, as in my quoted example above.

The_Wine_Gnat
09-27-2013, 07:38 PM
@Wine_Gnat
Good call! I might try to go with "God".
Also, wtf is a Wine Gnat? Is it like a Tequila Worm?

Evey time I open a red, a mysterious gnat appears and flies into my glass. No matter how many times I kill it, trap it, drink it (accidentally), throw it outside, it never fails to reappear instantly near my glass again. Always just a signal wine gnat, never more than one.

Being of the superstitious lot, since it can resurrect itself immediately to harass me again, I paid homage to it since last fall with this gamer name and voila, it rarely appears except to stop by for a quick drink.

Truhls
09-27-2013, 07:38 PM
Your Keep name is what you are identified by everywhere. The choices now are:
1) Name yourself a normal online alias/identity. Example: Svenn (my usual online identity). This means my characters would be things like "Gozzog of Svenn" and people looking at my keep would see a keep named Svenn, which is awkward.
2) Name yourself a place/last name. Example: Ethir (a last name I sometimes use for my characters). This means my characters could be "Svenn of Ethir" which is fine. However, in chat, friends list, and anywhere else I am identified I will be going by Ethir, which is not the name I want for myself.

Neither one of these are ideal. Either my keep name and character names associated with it sound awkward, or I don't get to be my usual online identity that I've been using for 14+ years. Some people might not personally care that their character is something silly like "Svenn of Svenn" but clearly quite a few of us are just not happy with that.

Now is the time to let Crypto know that we are not happy with that naming scheme, before anything is released. It might be a bit late to get it changed for start of Alpha, but it's something they could change this early on still.

Well said :)

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 07:47 PM
Well, I suppose we should just throw around feedback.
To me, the ideal situation would result in something like:
PvP - Gozzog of The Stray Blades*
PvE - Nagatta of The Stray Blades*
Chat - <Moik> 2x s'h w/ 0 rl, lf1m s'h for jy pst, lvl 20+

* Spaces pls.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 07:48 PM
Once again, don't name your characters Gozzog, instead use names you would use for servants of a person and you have solved the issue with using Svenn in pve, the only place it isn't solved is when the client is letting your opponent know that you're playing Gozzog. No one will ever think twice about it other than to think Svenn is playing Gozzog this match. That's all it signifies. No one doing PVP cares how your name and gozzog look together. The should just blank out the of in gozzog of svenn, so it is just letting people know you're playing Gozzog. "Gozzog Svenn" Then your problem magically disappears, and if that's all it takes it's not a legitimate problem in the first place.

Facilier
09-27-2013, 07:48 PM
I do not love it.

Was actually really exciting to see the idea of the keep name as the unique identifier to allow players to have the character name they want, even if somebody claimed it, effectively allowing a Battletag-style system with a customisable identifier then BOOM! - character names won't be used in chat!?

I am all for making the keep name a visible part of your identity, have the character name appear in chat, but scrolling over you can see the keep as well, or have a UI option to always show both.

Now with the keep name being your "identity" you not only have an issue of picking something suitable as a place name to identify with, but it also transforms your characters from your identities into possessions/minions (with creature cards being sub-minions?), which feels like it could result in a more than usual number of saddening names like "Orcwarrior of Facilier".

I do not love it.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 07:52 PM
Gwaer, Gozzog is the pre-set name of a pre-fabricated champion. In PvP you can't bring your own champion. My choices are Gozzog of Moik, Bunjitsu of Moik, Running Deer of Moik, Lady Alexandra of Moik, etc, etc. The "of" makes no sense in that context. They are not my children. Only one of them is even human.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 07:55 PM
I've never stated otherwise. What I have stated is that the only purpose of seeing gozzog, bun'jitsu or any other pvp champ at all is to alert your opponent that's the champ you're playing that match. You cannot stay playing them, gozzog of moik only exists to two people at any time, you and the person you're playing in a match at that moment. It's entirely irrelevant if your account name makes sense in that context since the only purpose it serves is to alert your opponent to your champion.

Ginaz
09-27-2013, 08:00 PM
Once again, don't name your characters Gozzog, instead use names you would use for servants of a person and you have solved the issue with using Svenn in pve, the only place it isn't solved is when the client is letting your opponent know that you're playing Gozzog. No one will ever think twice about it other than to think Svenn is playing Gozzog this match. That's all it signifies. No one doing PVP cares how your name and gozzog look together. The should just blank out the of in gozzog of svenn, so it is just letting people know you're playing Gozzog. "Gozzog Svenn" Then your problem magically disappears, and if that's all it takes it's not a legitimate problem in the first place.

As I mentioned earlier, I name my characters Ginaz in any game I play, single player or MMO. If you can have 2 names, first and last, then I'm always Ginaz Resser. So the way the naming works now doesn't work for me. I don't want people to see my name as Resser in chat but I also don't want my champion to be named Whatevername of Ginaz. Its much easier to just go with a single user name we use for chat and for other players to recognize us with and then use a unique character name for your champions. Why they're tying your global user name to your keep is beyond me.

Gulbech
09-27-2013, 08:00 PM
Usual i really like mist things CZE does, but have to agree with almost everybody in here - i dont like this idea either.

Think it would be much better to name your lord of the keep as the user name, Like "Lord Alhaz" and the i could name my keep something else. But make it so people could both search for my Lord name and keep name. So if people like to have both lord and keep name the same, let them. But please let me use my usual name as my chat name.

ursa23
09-27-2013, 08:01 PM
It should be an extremely easy fix to something that a lot of people obviously take more seriously than CZE thought they would.

Usual i really like mist things CZE does, but have to agree with almost everybody in here - i dont like this idea either.
I'm sorry, but at this point I count about 20 against, 15 for, and 8 compromise favorers. It's not exactly a landslide.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 08:02 PM
Gwaer, what's the value in this not making sense? Is there a benefit you're defending?

mudkip
09-27-2013, 08:05 PM
I don't mind the concept that "you" are the keep or province, which represents your deck and heroes. It's something different.

Truhls
09-27-2013, 08:05 PM
I'm sorry, but at this point I count about 20 against, 15 for, and 8 compromise favorers. It's not exactly a landslide.

Considering the way the numbers look, if extrapolated on them to the population that would almost put the majority against it.

keroko
09-27-2013, 08:07 PM
... Of 'the ninth burrowden' is a reserved keyname, pls enter another value

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 08:08 PM
Gwaer, what's the value in this not making sense? Is there a benefit you're defending?
I don't believe that it doesn't make sense. Honestly. I really like the idea. I have several keep names that I love and have been looking forward to grabbing for months. This isn't new information. In fact the biggest disappointment to me is that you can't use spaces =(

Svenn
09-27-2013, 08:10 PM
Once again, don't name your characters Gozzog, instead use names you would use for servants of a person and you have solved the issue with using Svenn in pve, the only place it isn't solved is when the client is letting your opponent know that you're playing Gozzog. No one will ever think twice about it other than to think Svenn is playing Gozzog this match. That's all it signifies. No one doing PVP cares how your name and gozzog look together. The should just blank out the of in gozzog of svenn, so it is just letting people know you're playing Gozzog. "Gozzog Svenn" Then your problem magically disappears, and if that's all it takes it's not a legitimate problem in the first place.

I don't want to be "Minion of Svenn" or something, especially since it will be my keep that is named Svenn. Especially when you consider that the character name will just be "Minion." You might not care about any of this, but plenty of us do. I am very particular about my naming in games and it will bother me until the day I stop playing Hex if the naming is awkward.

ursa23
09-27-2013, 08:10 PM
Considering the way the numbers look, if extrapolated on them to the population that would almost put the majority against it.

True, but if you use voluntary posters to a negative comment thread as your sampling base you aren't going to get good data. I'm not saying there aren't arguments against the current system. I'm saying that appeal to majority is a fallacy in any argument.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 08:11 PM
Okay, those names that you already have... what aspect of adding a Player Name renders them unusable?
You want to have one name in all places. What if you typed it in to both input fields? Is there an attribute that's being removed from them?

Svenn
09-27-2013, 08:13 PM
I don't believe that it doesn't make sense. Honestly. I really like the idea. I have several keep names that I love and have been looking forward to grabbing for months. This isn't new information. In fact the biggest disappointment to me is that you can't use spaces =(

I love the keep naming idea and I have ideas of what I'd like my keep to be named. I even like that it's what ties all of your stuff together. The big problem I have is that the names for my keep are not the names I want to be known by in chat and on my friends list. I essentially have to choose between a cool keep name with an awkward chat/friends list name or a weird keep name with my normal nickname. I shouldn't have to choose one or the other.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 08:15 PM
I don't want to be "Minion of Svenn" or something, especially since it will be my keep that is named Svenn. Especially when you consider that the character name will just be "Minion." You might not care about any of this, but plenty of us do. I am very particular about my naming in games and it will bother me until the day I stop playing Hex if the naming is awkward.

Your keep isn't necessarily named Svenn. Your keep is just named after its lord Svenn. Or if it makes you feel better you can imagine an anthropomorphic building controlling all of your characters if you like. The current suggestion on the floor is to just have it so you can present it as Whoever of Svenn's Keep. Which I personally find much less creative. Also as I said earlier anything that can be improved by altering word order is a silly thing to be upset about in the first place. But it seems like it wouldn't delay alpha too much to make that change.

Truhls
09-27-2013, 08:16 PM
True, but if you use voluntary posters to a negative comment thread as your sampling base you aren't going to get good data. I'm not saying there aren't arguments against the current system. I'm saying that appeal to majority is a fallacy in any argument.

while true, the data will never be good just because it's opinion based and not scientific. So might as well use what we have for extrapolation no?

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 08:19 PM
while true, the data will never be good just because it's opinion based and not scientific. So might as well use what we have for extrapolation no?
No, a sample size of less than 50 is meaningless, and it's already skewed to the negative because it's a negatively titled thread.


Edit: Not that a sample size of less than 100 isn't also meaningless, it takes quite a lot to get a representative sample.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 08:21 PM
Re: the spread of votes for and against.
The backer demographics are likely to be much more hardcore and savvy of mmotcgs than the post-launch market will be. I don't feel that "Your keep name is your name" is an intuitive thing that a new player will immediately understand, especially since most people don't choose to read everything. They're going to type a Keep Name in the Keep Name field and get confused when they don't find a Player Name field. There's probably going to be a lot of customer support issues coming in of people wanting their name changed from Dogfort to David2004. I suspect the spread we see now is as friendly as its going to get.

ursa23
09-27-2013, 08:22 PM
while true, the data will never be good just because it's opinion based and not scientific. So might as well use what we have for extrapolation no?
You can get good data on opinion based polls. It's all about sampling correctly. Simply saying, "well, the numbers so far agree with me so we should change everything" isn't a valid argument. Your original post IS a valid argument. The logic of it may not apply to me, but I can see how it could affect the hardcore gamer base.

keroko
09-27-2013, 08:23 PM
WhatWhatWhat?!1 no spaces?! What utter nonsense.

It is just a character. You might as well exclude an exclamation mark...

I don't want to hear about database storable data type restriction.

Svenn
09-27-2013, 08:25 PM
Your keep isn't necessarily named Svenn. Your keep is just named after its lord Svenn. Or if it makes you feel better you can imagine an anthropomorphic building controlling all of your characters if you like. The current suggestion on the floor is to just have it so you can present it as Whoever of Svenn's Keep. Which I personally find much less creative. Also as I said earlier anything that can be improved by altering word order is a silly thing to be upset about in the first place. But it seems like it wouldn't delay alpha too much to make that change.
But the keep IS named Svenn. That's part of the game. Anywhere they refer to my keep they will refer to "Svenn".

As for the suggestions... there are multiple suggestions. Here are the 2 that I think might work best:
1) Allow a nickname that is displayed in chat/friends list/guild list instead of your keep name. This way I can have Keep Ethir with characters such as "Istari of Ethir" but when I type in chat or someone sees me in the guild/friends list it will display "Svenn" instead of "Ethir". Character name, Keep Name, AND player nickname.
2) Have an option for the display to be "Svenn's Keep" so you have names like "Svenn of Svenn's Keep" instead of just "Svenn of Svenn". Simple solution but removes some creativity from the keep naming. If you had options and could choose whether it displayed as "Svenn of Svenn", "Svenn of Svenn's Keep", or "Svenn of Keep Svenn" that could help fix up some of those problems.

ursa23
09-27-2013, 08:28 PM
1) Allow a nickname that is displayed in chat/friends list/guild list instead of your keep name. This way I can have Keep Ethir with characters such as "Istari of Ethir" but when I type in chat or someone sees me in the guild/friends list it will display "Svenn" instead of "Ethir". Character name, Keep Name, AND player nickname.

This seems perfect to me. I only wonder how much trouble it would be. I have no programming knowledge, I'm a humanities student!

Xtopher
09-27-2013, 08:32 PM
First I like that character names are not unique. Everybody can have the character name they want which is great.

If people are so unhappy, maybe there could be an option to have your name in chat/events/whatever appear as your choice of keep name or character name? If character name, there would need to be a little asterisk by it (or maybe a different color font) to alert people that the name isn't unique and they'd have to mouse over it or something to see the keep name.

I doesn't matter if it's 50% unhappy, 25% unhappy, or 10% unhappy, I've no doubt CZE can find a happy median that will satisfy 99% of us.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 08:32 PM
Your keep being referred to as svenn means nothing. Keep = account. It's pretty simple. You go look at Svenn's account theres his keeps picture and a list of his crap.

If you allow nicknames you're going to restrict the game to two separate lists of unique names. 1 list of unique names is already a huge issue, the fact that there's only one shard and you need unique identifiables are what's driving this decision in the first place. Adding a second list is extremely untenable.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 08:38 PM
I'm pretty sure that adding a second list of names is basically just one more column to the array.
Are you implying that CZE can't program a database that stays stable with the addition of one more column?

Svenn
09-27-2013, 08:38 PM
Your keep being referred to as svenn means nothing. Keep = account. It's pretty simple. You go look at Svenn's account theres his keeps picture and a list of his crap.

If you allow nicknames you're going to restrict the game to two separate lists of unique names. 1 list of unique names is already a huge issue, the fact that there's only one shard and you need unique identifiables are what's driving this decision in the first place. Adding a second list is extremely untenable.
It might "mean nothing" but it will bother the hell out of me if it's not right. It will bother me every single time I look at it. Also, at this point I don't think we can safely say that it's not referred to as a place throughout PvE or Keep Defense or whatever else. I guarantee there are things that will refer to "Svenn" as a keep and not a person and that will seriously make me sad every time I see it.

As for nicknames... I'd be okay if they weren't even unique. Allow me to set a nickname that displays in chat as "Svenn (Ethir)" where "Svenn" is my nickname and "Ethir" is my keep name. There could be another player with the nickname Svenn, but for a different keep. It's similar to character names but will be the name ALWAYS displayed in chat or friends lists so it's easy for people to identify me, regardless of what deck/champion I choose. They would still have to add me to friends list by "Ethir" instead of "Svenn" but that's a smaller issue.

Idus
09-27-2013, 08:45 PM
If you allow nicknames you're going to restrict the game to two separate lists of unique names. 1 list of unique names is already a huge issue, the fact that there's only one shard and you need unique identifiables are what's driving this decision in the first place. Adding a second list is extremely untenable.

The Suggestions haven't been to make display name unique, but simply make them a text string which displays instead of your unique name. Now while this posses an issue that in chat, you may see two display names the same, the additional suggestion is to make a tooltip or similar on the display name, which shows you the actual unique name for that user.

I don't see a real issue with this, as the chances of having 20 Frodo's all in the same chat channel at the same time is slim, and easy enough to sort out with a quick mouse-over. Alternatively, have a toggle to turn on full name instead of display name if this issue arises.

*EDIT* Ninja'd by Svenn :)

EmraldArcher
09-27-2013, 08:54 PM
Just take a page from Blizzard and let everyone create a real id/battlenet name that people will use to add them as a friend.

Then everyone can use their forum name, name from a different game, whatever as their chat name.

PetyrBaelish
09-27-2013, 09:00 PM
I think the problem is that you are naming your keep which is also going to be your chat handle which is just dumb. If you cant make your chat handle and keep different names then there is absolutely no point to have keep names. Because I know I want my chat handle to be Petyr Baelish but if I cant name my keep Harrenhal WTF is the point! If its one or the other id have to go with the name of the keep instead of my chat handle because everytime I play a game it will say "Champion name of Harrenhal" because "Champion name of Petyr Baelish" sounds stupid just make it account names and remove the blank of blank bs.

Xtopher
09-27-2013, 09:07 PM
It would be a mistake to link Baelish to Harrenhal. I'd be surprised if that's where he ends up. Maybe he'll end up with Winterfell or The Aerie. Most likely in a grave, though.

RCDv57
09-27-2013, 09:46 PM
The current naming system is really cool to me.
However as it stands something HAS to change in order for everyone to be happy.

One of the better ways to do it is to give the player some more options, and customization.
And each name or title would start with Account name in it, and the player could build off of it.
You could then add in adjectives, conjunctions, titles, and the ('s) thing. Or leave them out if you can't stand that sort of thing.
And when creating a new Hero you get a box where you can put in even more custom text.
But the account name would HAVE to be in all the names you make.

That way I can have my Minions of RCDv57, who live in RCDv57 Tower
And you can have your Svenn Ethir, who lives in Svenn's Castle


(P.S. Ideally we would like the ability to change around the order of whatever words we are given to work with.)

Niedar
09-27-2013, 09:48 PM
Adding my name to the list of people who think the naming system should change. Having a keep name is a cool idea and can still exist but many peoples common identity does not always work as a keep name.

ramseytheory
09-27-2013, 09:55 PM
Personally I have no problem with the naming scheme at all, but then I tend to use a different user name for everything I register for so it's not a big deal for me to go for a keep name other than Ramseytheory.

fitzle
09-27-2013, 10:11 PM
I like the keep name structure. Put me firmly in the pro camp. I think the negative voices are blowing this way out of proportion. No one will know or care once people are online.

havocattack
09-27-2013, 10:26 PM
As someone else suggested, simply having something different as your chat name would solve the issue :)

Zophie
09-27-2013, 10:52 PM
All of the dismissive comments telling people how they should feel and "that's how it is so deal with it" are rather unnecessary. If you don't have a problem with it, that's fine, but you can also respect those who are obviously passionate about their social persona in this game, whether it's for roleplaying or other reasons. This kind of thing is very important to some people and they have the right to provide their feedback here. If it's not important to you it's okay to say that too, but don't try to tell other people how they should feel.

Dralon
09-27-2013, 11:57 PM
If the naming system can be made more customizable to accommodate many of the opinions in this thread, then great. If it would make it much more difficult for any reason (I don't program so can't comment on that aspect), then it should remain as is. People will adapt.

Personally I have always used Dralon as a first name of characters, and it has become my online handle in multiple games, guilds, chat channels etc. I visualize it as a first name, and not a surname or building name. But I will use that as my chat handle in game, so if I need to be Keep of Dralon, Lord of Dralon, and have characters "Killerbunny of Dralon", then for me, so be it. Since everyone comes to their name differently and attach different (or no) value to them, I am not surprised at the differing reactions.

CZE has I feel been very responsive to community concerns, an employee has already confirmed they are going to be evaluating options going forward, so I anticipate a positive response and no need for jumping off bridges just yet.

ossuary
09-28-2013, 12:20 AM
I really don't see an issue with this.

Personally, I RARELY use my online screen name as a character name in-game. Since I usually end up with 5-50 characters across various servers in any MMO I play (hahah I have a problem), I find it much more fun to come up with new names for each character that has something to do with their personality or class anyway. I don't associate my online personna with my in-game characters, because each character I play has a bit of a different personality to fit my mood with that type of character. Heck, I've never even had a D&D character named Ossuary.

Sure, Ossuary isn't the most awesome keep name I could come up with, but since that's the primary identifier for my account, that's what it's going to be. I'll leave the creativity to my champion names, as I usually do. It really isn't that big of a deal. Frankly, if you have such a huge problem with being identified in-game by your "usual online name," maybe it's not a very good name to begin with?

I would be fine if CZE offered a couple of customization options for how your keep name is displayed as others in the thread have suggested (like let us choose if it is listed as Gozzog of Ossuary, Gozzog of Ossuary's Keep, or Gozzog of Keep Ossuary, etc.), and being able to have or unlock a couple of options besides "Keep" would be cool, too. But I am definitely against them changing the overall design of how the names work... this is different, and neat, and I like it.

franky
09-28-2013, 01:12 AM
So many people are misunderstanding what the issue is to a lot of us.

My online screen name is Franky. I've been using it for 22 years, and of course I want to use it for Hex. So then, I should name my keep/lord/whatever Franky. So far so good.

But if I do that, all my champions will be named "Champion of Franky". I hate that. And it has nothing to do with role playing, I just think it looks and sounds dumb. And I don't want my champions to have a dumb title.

Also, I don't care if you think it sounds cool. You are not the one who'll be seeing it all the time. I am.

This NEEDS to be addressed, and soon. Ideally before Alpha. if so many people are upset about this now, just imagine what problems will arise once thousands of people swarm in and start creating accounts.

It's troubling to me that Cryptozoic so far has said nothing regarding this issue, not even a vague "we're looking into it" statement. like I said, this NEEDS to be addressed.

MoikPEI
09-28-2013, 01:14 AM
It's troubling to me that Cryptozoic so far has said nothing regarding this issue, not even a vague "we're looking into it" statement. like I said, this NEEDS to be addressed.

It's troubling to me you assume they have said nothing on the issue
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=27716&page=6&p=297318&viewfull=1#post297318
They're going to work through the weekend to reassess this.

franky
09-28-2013, 01:17 AM
They're going to work through the weekend to reassess this.

Thanks, missed that apparently.

ossuary
09-28-2013, 01:22 AM
It's hard to see clearly from on top of a high horse. :)

Xtopher
09-28-2013, 01:26 AM
It's hard to see clearly from on top of a high horse. :)
Nice. I haven't heard that one before. :)

TheKraken
09-28-2013, 01:27 AM
I agree with ossuary - this isn't a big deal.

I like their naming system - it's a clean system.

CZE, please don't have 2 forms of identifications - that gets too messy and unnecessary.

franky
09-28-2013, 01:29 AM
I agree with ossuary - this isn't a big deal.

Clearly, many people think it is a big deal.

Let me put it this way... If it's not a big deal to you, you have no problem with them changing it so that everyone's happy, right?

Jinxies
09-28-2013, 01:35 AM
I wouldn't say many people have a problem with it. A very vocal smaller group do.

franky
09-28-2013, 01:37 AM
A very vocal smaller group do.

And they will be much larger as soon as the game launches. So better to address the problem now.

dagnabulous
09-28-2013, 01:39 AM
Just for my 2 cents on this topic...

I'll start of by saying that I like having a keep name. The problem I have is that there are 2 usernames that I use for gaming, and that my (online) friends know me by. My problem is that neither of these sound good as keep names, in fact they sound terrible for it.

To address Ossuary's comment, for me it's not so much that I have a problem not being able to use my usual screen names for the game (as I like coming up with names, and I am actually pretty good at it), it's more that either the name I choose will sound slightly awkward for the champions, or slightly awkward for the chat side of things, since I usually think of my characters as a persona that wouldn't work so well at the group level. Would I be upset if they left it as is? No, absolutely not. I'll adapt. But at this level, for a game that has a certain expected longevity, I think having a separate username and keep name would be better for the game. And at this point in the game it would be much easier to implement than it would be further down the road, so why not?

Having to refer to myself as a kingdom just feels weird to me (and I've also never had a D&D character named Dagnabulous). But I also think an acceptable trade-off of having some type of customizable "display-name" would be fine as well.

Like I said I don't really dislike it, but I think having BOTH (keep name and username) would be better than ONLY having a Keep Name. I don't expect Cryptozoic to change it if they think that's the direction they want to go, but I know they take our opinions into consideration and this is mine.

In any case I can't wait to play the Alpha and will love the game no less for however they handle the names.

Jinxies
09-28-2013, 01:54 AM
And they will be much larger as soon as the game launches. So better to address the problem now.

My experience with internet forums is that a smaller vocal group is... complaining very loudly about something that isn't even a problem or at it's hight might be a minor problem, they are very rarely/never representative of the game's playerbase.

MoikPEI
09-28-2013, 01:59 AM
Odd, I have the opposite experience. People who defended the RMAH in D3 said stuff like that.

Chiany
09-28-2013, 01:59 AM
I think Franky is a bit to enthousiastic about it :)

I would like it to change too, and Crypto has said to look into it.
So just sit back and relax, and see what they come up with.

Lunarath
09-28-2013, 02:20 AM
I can't really figure out how i feel about this. On one hand i would like to use Lunarath as my name, as i've used it for years and it's what people know me as. Lunarath just sounds terrible as a keep name.

However if i just name all my champions Lunarath, i would go as Lunarath of AwesomeKeepName right? I can see that being pretty cool aswell if people can still find and add me to their friends lists... But i assume they need AwesomeKeepName for that?

franky
09-28-2013, 02:30 AM
I think Franky is a bit to enthousiastic about it :)

To me, this is a big problem. As it stands, I have to choose between a good chat name and stupid champion names, or a chat name I can't identify with and good champion names. This is something that will affect me each time I play. Sorry if I care about that.

FeelNFine
09-28-2013, 02:39 AM
Think of it like this... you are the master of the keep (or castle), and the keep is named after you. Like how Toad Hall is named after Mister Toad. :)

It only really gets weird if you insist on also having a champion with your name. "You are now fighting ossuary of Keep Ossuary." Yeah, that's weird. ;)

I can assure you, the naming conventions is bothering the majority, not the minority.

I do like the idea of keep names, but I don't want to make clunky compromises. Lets take your example, you name your keep 'Keep Ossuary' Now your characters can be Lancelot of Keep Ossuary! Cool! But now, in chat, you are 'Keep Ossuary:blahblahblah' Now that's just weird. If you for the purposes of friends lists and chatting (what most people will do) name your id Ossuary, then your character is Lancelot of Ossuary not as cool. (It may work better for you, but Lancelot of FeelNFine is lame).

Since character names aren't exclusive, people won't want their usual handles to be character names, since anyone could use their handle. Particularly annoying for the people who inevitably become well known. Also, most people's minds will be "blah blah blah fine text fine text blah blah blah... oooo keep name" and will name it something building ish, not realizing that is now their handle.

tl;dr it's a problem, but they're fixing it, and it's an easy fix. All you have to do is have an entry field after you choose Lord/Lady. Now I can be FeelNFine, Lord of The Desolate Wastelands, I can appear in chat as FeelNFine, be easily connected to my handle, and then I can make a character called Scourge, and appear as Scourge of The Desolate Wastelands.

The moral of the story is complaining can be a very good thing. It's essentially the entire point of Alpha. Even if it is a vocal minority complaining, if they are right then they are right. In the end, adding a second name field only adds, it doesn't take away anything from anybody, now that's one of the best things to petition for.

Ginaz
09-28-2013, 02:47 AM
Hopefully they can come up with a comprise that will make (most) people happy, like they did the Gen Con mercs. Wait and see I guess. And Ginaz of Ginaz still sounds pretty freaking stupid, and always will.

NaryaDL0re
09-28-2013, 03:08 AM
I havent seen this pointed out often but its seems the most obvious and elegant solution.

Make people name their Lord (chat name) and their keep. And than either let them choose their
champions to be named "Champion of Lord" or "Champion of Keep"... or just pick one for us.

Anyhow, just naming the Lord/Lady of the Keep and the Keep itselfs seems to be the most elegant solution.

Also, has anyone asked what signs/numbers/etc we can use as Keepname?
For Example so far I would need to name my keep NaryaDL0re ... is the 0 ok? Will the caps be distinguishable?
In the screenshot Keepnames are all caps... does it mean this will be the norm?

bogycoins
09-28-2013, 05:12 AM
...
tl;dr it's a problem, but they're fixing it, and it's an easy fix. All you have to do is have an entry field after you choose Lord/Lady. Now I can be FeelNFine, Lord of The Desolate Wastelands, I can appear in chat as FeelNFine, be easily connected to my handle, and then I can make a character called Scourge, and appear as Scourge of The Desolate Wastelands.


I agree with that. Just add another unique entry that will store the nicknames and will be displayed in chat, leaderboards, and other places where it makes sense to refer to player as a person, not a place. And display the keep name in other places where it makes sense, like Champion of Keep Name.

malloc31
09-28-2013, 06:37 AM
But the keep IS named Svenn. That's part of the game. Anywhere they refer to my keep they will refer to "Svenn".

As for the suggestions... there are multiple suggestions. Here are the 2 that I think might work best:
1) Allow a nickname that is displayed in chat/friends list/guild list instead of your keep name. This way I can have Keep Ethir with characters such as "Istari of Ethir" but when I type in chat or someone sees me in the guild/friends list it will display "Svenn" instead of "Ethir". Character name, Keep Name, AND player nickname.
2) Have an option for the display to be "Svenn's Keep" so you have names like "Svenn of Svenn's Keep" instead of just "Svenn of Svenn". Simple solution but removes some creativity from the keep naming. If you had options and could choose whether it displayed as "Svenn of Svenn", "Svenn of Svenn's Keep", or "Svenn of Keep Svenn" that could help fix up some of those problems.

Seconded!

And Gwear why do you have so much problem with letting people have options to display things how they like, I can see no way it is detrimental to you. All you can possibly say is "we shouldn't waste their time"; but A) allowing it to be displayed as Malloc's Keep can not possibly take a very long time to change, and B) we have or will be paying money to have cards in this game and should have some input because of that.

RanaDunes
09-28-2013, 07:26 AM
I too didn't like the idea of my handle is actually a name of a keep.
You can't have a keep named Bob. That doesn't make sense and people want to use their names as chat handles.

keroko
09-28-2013, 07:31 AM
I just want to know what, exactly, is causing inability to use space characters.

I understand not allowing consecutive space / symbolic chars in name creation, but am at a loss with this %20 thing.

If the issue is that players might not be able to easily type to the chat system a players name "example%20user" simply have the user type a comma between the recipient of their message and the body of the whisper string. That's how city of heroes for one let you call yourself anything you wanted.

I don't buy the significant security risk unless you're doing stuff you simply shouldn't with direct data handling from/on retrieval.

So rly, I'm interested, why no space char?

ossuary
09-28-2013, 07:38 AM
I can sort of feel Cryptozoic's pain on this one, because it's hard to find a solution that works for everyone and also meets system requirements. See, the thing everyone has to remember, is that we have to have SOME kind of unique identifier. Otherwise, random people we encounter will not know how to get in touch with us if they want to chat further after a game / raid or whatnot.

Obviously, the champion names can't be unique, because each player could have dozens - and mercenaries would get complicated if you could change their names to something else (because an opponent might not then know what mercenary they were facing without extra digging). So the immediate solution that some people see is to make a separate user name from the keep name, so they can come up with some cool name for their keep that has nothing to do with their handle.

But then are keep names unique or not? What if someone has a cool keep name, and someone else comes up with the same idea a year later (not knowing about keep X), and gets really mad that they can't have it? They figure they can name their champion anything they want, so why not their keep, too? Having the keep name and the username be the same solves that, because people expect to have to have a unique user name. Asking them to have TWO unique names can be weird and off-putting.

And on the same token, if we're now naming three things, that means CZE also has to display all three things as well. It's no good to know that you're fighting Lancelot of Camelot if neither Lancelot nor Camelot are unique in the game world... so now you have to be shown that you're fighting Lancelot of Camelot representing Ossuary. It's still cumbersome, and it would require CZE to reprogram some of the stuff they had obviously worked out.

So what if they just let us choose our own chat handle, like in IRC? Well, then that wouldn't be unique either, and you could run into problems of impersonation. Any way you slice it, something is weird, and someone is mad. I could see there being a case for making both keep names and user names that are unique, but as I said earlier that could cause just as much confusion / anger as the current solution...

Or, as an alternate option, you could see them just dropping the champion and keep names from the game display entirely and ONLY showing the user name of the person you're fighting. You would see their keep name when you went to their keep to attempt to defeat it, and it wouldn't have to be unique, because you would find them by their user name. That could work, but it seems to break their vision for the RP of it all, which would be a shame.

p.s. - saying "I assure you, my opinion is the majority opinion" is a pretty worthless statement. Even if more people in this thread are against the idea than have been verbally in favor of it, it doesn't make it a majority. Everyone knows that more people post to complain than they do to support, that's a well-documented statistical fact. And even aside from that, this forum is not statistically representative of the entire future game population. Or even of the existing kickstarter / slacker backer population. It's a subset of a subset of a subset. You can't base the entirety of your push for change on the idea that more people in this thread said "I don't like it" than otherwise. Please note, I'm not saying the matter isn't open for discussion, because CZE has made it very clear that they are looking into this, I'm just saying that you can't make sweeping generalizations like that and expect it to be taken as canon.

Jugan
09-28-2013, 07:46 AM
Yes.

hammer
09-28-2013, 08:03 AM
I like the naming concept proposed by CZE, at first I was slightly disappointed as I had expected to be known as Hammer, and this method probably means a rethink on account name, but now I have started to think of new names and the possibilities are endless I am excited and think it should stay the way they intended.

Soul-of-Void
09-28-2013, 08:19 AM
For me it could be either way, so i will stick with what CZE decide to do.

Jugan
09-28-2013, 08:23 AM
Here's an idea:

1. Keep name.
2. Lord name.
3. Champion name.

1. The name of your keep/kingdom. Can be unique or non-unique, whatever works.

2. The name people will see in chat, profile, etc. Your name will be listed in your profile as: Lord/Lady [Lord name] of [Keep Name]. This will be unique.
example: We go to user Bob's profile. It shows at the top: Lord Bob, king of Bobland.

3. Champions will be as-is.
example: Champion Minibob of Bobland.

man, isn't that a brilliant and elegant solution?

bogycoins
09-28-2013, 09:00 AM
@ossuary
I don't see why it should be so confusing by having two unique names. To me it makes total sense.

There can be only one Lord 'bogycoins', as myself, and can be only one place 'My Awesome Keep' where I spend my time. Then I have my character(s), which lives in my keep and they get the keep's name, so we have Champions of My Awesome Keep (I also pledge for spaces in keep's name). The character names are not unique, but they can't use your lord name. So you solved the problem of someone else using your name. Also the keep name being unique, only your champions will wear your keep's name.

As what being displayed in different places, that should differ based on what it represents, you're a lord chatting with another lords, so use the name there, in top undefeated keeps or something, you show the keeps names. Of course it should have a tooltip or something easy to use/see that contains any other info you want to identify someone. I don't think it will make harder to remember someone by having to remember both username and keep's name, we're pretty used by associating persons with places. And you only need to remember one anyway.

As for getting confusing by adding another field I don't think that's even a problem. Everyone that will play this game, have at least created one email address where you have to enter a lot more data. The interface can be cool enough not to see this as something cumbersome, but awesome, e.g. show a nice screen where you 'get born' and with a small story line you can get in another screen where you 'create' your keep. You don't even need to care if it's unique or not, the game will just tell you that another lord with the same name already exists and same with the keep and you have to pick another one.

CoS
09-28-2013, 09:26 AM
My user name is short for Champion of Solaris (FASA Battletech reference) ... So I guess my Keep name is now Solaris VII. Not terrible, but people who know CoS from numerous iine games will never find me :(

ossuary
09-28-2013, 10:01 AM
I really don't understand people who say so-and-so will never find me. Maybe exchange email addresses? Or twitter handles? It's, like, not the 70's anymore. We have ways to communicate across the vast reaches of the internet now!

Truhls
09-28-2013, 10:04 AM
I really don't understand people who say so-and-so will never find me. Maybe exchange email addresses? Or twitter handles? It's, like, not the 70's anymore. We have ways to communicate across the vast reaches of the internet now!

Yes, when my handle is the same in 99% of all the games ive played it makes total sense for them to randomly email me what my handle is now, instead of just searching for it like always. Yep, very intuitive indeed.

Quasari
09-28-2013, 10:34 AM
I used to play Utopia, basically you had a kingdom of 25 people, each with a province name and a ruler name. Ruler name was basically superfluous outside of your kingdom as most interactions were based on your province name. As such I feel the keep name should be your interactive name. The easiest way to proclaim who you are would be to AIG your keep name outside of the game. Names mean less on the internet anyway, when anyone could take it as their own.

Svenn
09-28-2013, 10:47 AM
I really don't understand people who say so-and-so will never find me. Maybe exchange email addresses? Or twitter handles? It's, like, not the 70's anymore. We have ways to communicate across the vast reaches of the internet now!

The bigger problem is when you're in chat, or you look at your friends list, and have to try and figure out who is who since no one is able to use their regular names you've known them by for some time. Everyone has a different name so that's a new set of names to associate with the old set of names, and it's REALLY annoying. I've done it in other games, and it really sucks.

Ju66ernaut
09-28-2013, 10:48 AM
Kory Jonez: Hey Mike, I'd like to offer you a position as CZE's Embassador to the Eastern World. You will have an incredible salary, your loft in Tokyo and living expenses will be covered by the company, and you will have unlimited access to drafts on your Hex account. What do you say?

Me: That's really cool and all. I'd have limitless fun with this game and a wealth of supplies to suite my lifestyle...but I don't know....I'd have to get a new phone number and people already have me programmed into their phones. Would you mind asking NTT DoCoMo to have my current phone number transferred from Verizon Wireless? Won't work? Okay; thanks for the offer, but I'm good.

Quasari
09-28-2013, 10:51 AM
The bigger problem is when you're in chat, or you look at your friends list, and have to try and figure out who is who since no one is able to use their regular names you've known them by for some time. Everyone has a different name so that's a new set of names to associate with the old set of names, and it's REALLY annoying. I've done it in other games, and it really sucks.
Its exactly the same as someone playing an alt in any mmo. Just hope they have a note section on friends/guild lists and you are good.

Svenn
09-28-2013, 10:54 AM
Its exactly the same as someone playing an alt in any mmo. Just hope they have a note section on friends/guild lists and you are good.

I REALLY hate that. Also, we've progressed past that... most games have an account name that identifies you beyond your characters... and it's your alias. The problem is that Crypto is doing this... but now that alias is the name of a location so either you use your normal one and it sounds stupid or you use a new one and no one knows who you are.

Showsni
09-28-2013, 11:03 AM
The bigger problem is when you're in chat, or you look at your friends list, and have to try and figure out who is who since no one is able to use their regular names you've known them by for some time. Everyone has a different name so that's a new set of names to associate with the old set of names, and it's REALLY annoying. I've done it in other games, and it really sucks.

Well yeah, but what if someone signs up with "your" username before you get to it? I mean, since we're joining Hex fairly early this is less of a problem for us, but a friend who joins later down the line could quite easily find their preferred nick already taken. Then you'd have to learn a new name to associate with them anyway.

Svenn
09-28-2013, 11:10 AM
Well yeah, but what if someone signs up with "your" username before you get to it? I mean, since we're joining Hex fairly early this is less of a problem for us, but a friend who joins later down the line could quite easily find their preferred nick already taken. Then you'd have to learn a new name to associate with them anyway.

Most of my friends use rather unique nicknames, but either way people usually find a way to make it work. I mean, my nickname started out as "Sven" back when I played D&D in the mid-90s and after finding it taken at various places on the internet I started going by "Svenn" with the extra N in there to make it a little more unique and then eventually I started using "SvennEthir" in various places as well. Most people know me simply as "Svenn" but it's much easier for someone to see "SvennEthir" on their friends list or typing in guild chat and go "Okay, that's Svenn" than it is for them to see "Ethir" and try and figure out who Ethir is.

Also, that would be the occasional friend who is probably just using a variation on their typical nickname anyway so it's easy to figure out versus the several dozen people I know that will be playing (several people from previous MMO guilds, real life friends, co-workers, etc) all using new names that are names of a location/structure and not related to the names I know them by.

Quasari
09-28-2013, 11:13 AM
Well if its any consolation in the alpha qa thread a purple said its not your keeps name, but the lord/lady name. The keep would be basically Quasari's keep in my case.

ossuary
09-28-2013, 11:15 AM
Yes, when my handle is the same in 99% of all the games ive played it makes total sense for them to randomly email me what my handle is now, instead of just searching for it like always. Yep, very intuitive indeed.

Do you also make an account with the exact same name on all 73 game servers, and check them every single day, just in case some person randomly starts playing on that server and randomly tries to message you? You know, just to cover your bases... because talking to people is apparently too difficult.

"Hey, Truhls, do you play <game>?" ... Yeah, that was real frickin' difficult. :)

Svenn
09-28-2013, 11:18 AM
And just so we're clear here... those of us who have a problem with this aren't going to avoid playing the game because of it. It WILL hurt our enjoyment a little bit, however. If it doesn't get changed, we'll make due and get used to it. I can tell you that, personally, every time I see my keep name I will be a little bit sad. I am very attached to my names.

We are not angry and whining or trying to bash Crypto or Hex. We are just trying to voice our concerns because they are something that will bother us... and Crypto have repeatedly asked for our feedback. Our feedback is simply that we would prefer a way to be identified by our typical alias which is different than our keep name. I'm not sure why people seem to want to tell us that our opinion on this matter is wrong.

Truhls
09-28-2013, 11:30 AM
Do you also make an account with the exact same name on all 73 game servers, and check them every single day, just in case some person randomly starts playing on that server and randomly tries to message you? You know, just to cover your bases... because talking to people is apparently too difficult.

"Hey, Truhls, do you play <game>?" ... Yeah, that was real frickin' difficult. :)

How about you go back in the thread and read where i posted im in a multi gaming guild with over 3000 members. Do you know how many messages i would receive a day with your way? I'd never be able to play a game again id just spend all my hours replying to messages.

Zophie
09-28-2013, 11:31 AM
I agree with that. Just add another unique entry that will store the nicknames and will be displayed in chat, leaderboards, and other places where it makes sense to refer to player as a person, not a place. And display the keep name in other places where it makes sense, like Champion of Keep Name.

This exactly. Let us name our lord/lady in charge of the keep, use that for our chat name, and then let us also name our keep. This would be ideal and make everyone happy I think.

KiraForce
09-28-2013, 11:45 AM
My second idea for my name actually fits better than the one I currently have in this situation for both user and Keep so I have no qualms.

ossuary
09-28-2013, 12:54 PM
How about you go back in the thread and read where i posted im in a multi gaming guild with over 3000 members. Do you know how many messages i would receive a day with your way? I'd never be able to play a game again id just spend all my hours replying to messages.

So the whole system should be overhauled, because you're not capable of prioritizing who you communicate with, or narrowing down your contact list a bit? Sounds like a case of your problem, not mine.

SuperPueppi
09-28-2013, 12:59 PM
I am mostly indifferent to the topic, I like the dynasty twist to the account-naming idea via the keep, but also understand that it's basically a quite uncommon approach to MMO aliases and ultimately gets you talking in chats rather as a place than a person. The strongest argument against it is however that it makes it quite complicated to appear in guild's forums and in game with different names.
After all I have naming ideas for both, so I don't really mid how this is turning out, but I would be using new aliases either way.

What I don't get about the discussion in this thread (2nd longest thread in the forum) is why we don't just wait for CZE to come back after the weekend with the outcome of their discussion.
All that's happening in the last 10 or more pages is a lot of people not liking the idea for several (but identical) reasons and roughly 5 people responding to that defending CZE's initial approach.

CZE has heard the community and (completely in line with their behaviour up so far and in line with what you should do with crowdfunded projects) they are rediscussing their idea, which they initally thought to be great and definitely spent quite some time to come up with. So let's just wait it out?

Truhls
09-28-2013, 01:03 PM
So the whole system should be overhauled, because you're not capable of prioritizing who you communicate with, or narrowing down your contact list a bit? Sounds like a case of your problem, not mine.

I don't understand why you are against it, it changes nothing for you, but makes others happy. Sounds to me like you just need a reason to argue.

Svenn
09-28-2013, 01:32 PM
So the whole system should be overhauled, because you're not capable of prioritizing who you communicate with, or narrowing down your contact list a bit? Sounds like a case of your problem, not mine.

1) We're not saying "overhaul the whole system now!" We're saying "Hey, can we get a different display name for chat?" That's not some crazy request.
2) So because you are intent on telling people their opinion is wrong, we should just shut up and not actually have an opinion?

I'm done responding to you, because at this point you are only trolling.

Kami
09-28-2013, 01:34 PM
We're saying "Hey, can we get a different display name for chat?" That's not some crazy request.

This could potentially lead to a lot of scam situations though.

Svenn
09-28-2013, 01:36 PM
This could potentially lead to a lot of scam situations though.

Which is why my suggestion included putting the keep name in chat as well. For example: if my keep name is "Ethir" and I want to use "Svenn" as my display name it will show in chat as "Svenn (Ethir): This is a chat message".

Kami
09-28-2013, 01:41 PM
Which is why my suggestion included putting the keep name in chat as well. For example: if my keep name is "Ethir" and I want to use "Svenn" as my display name it will show in chat as "Svenn (Ethir): This is a chat message".

No, I understood that but for example: What if instead it was Trader (Ram)? You could also have Trader (Rarn), Trader (Rann), etc.

You could argue that it's Buyer Beware but it could lead to a lot of unhappy situations that CZE may need to assist in fixing.

jetah
09-28-2013, 01:45 PM
No, I understood that but for example: What if instead it was Trader (Ram)? You could also have Trader (Rarn), Trader (Rann), etc.

You could argue that it's Buyer Beware but it could lead to a lot of unhappy situations that CZE may need to assist in fixing.

but if keep names are unique then people will always do similar spellings of names.



CZE could do something like @handle or <displayname>@keepname. This allows us to use a display name and still have unique keep names. We'd have the option to see <displayname> or <displayname>@keepname in chat. When doing a reply or PM, the chat would always use <displayname>@keepname. This always allow us to ignore a @keepname so that the whole account is ignored.

when adding a friend you'd only need the @keepname. You'd be able to see which alt the player is on.
Or there could be 2 levels for friends. one level is <displayname>@keepname. second level is @keepname.

Svenn
09-28-2013, 01:56 PM
No, I understood that but for example: What if instead it was Trader (Ram)? You could also have Trader (Rarn), Trader (Rann), etc.

You could argue that it's Buyer Beware but it could lead to a lot of unhappy situations that CZE may need to assist in fixing.
If it was just "Ram" then it would be "Rarn", "Rann", etc... That doesn't really change anything.

Quasari
09-28-2013, 02:19 PM
Ok, again your account name is not the keep name, just the lord/lady of the keep. Here's Shaq's post on the matter:


Sorry about any confusion. When creating your account name, you should think of it as naming your Lord or Lady. Like a surname. Not necessarily naming a building.

As far as Kickstarter rewards and merging accounts, that'll happen when we go open Beta. The current system is only for alpha, and we are using the emails provided to us by Kickstarter.

In PVP, if your Lord or Lady is named "ERIC" it'll be CHAMPION NAME of ERIC. So, Gozzog of Eric will appear if you choose the Necrotic Warrior PVP Champion.

For those of you with multiple pledges, this is just for alpha, but you should use one of those pledges to create the Lord or Lady name you desire.

For Chat, you'll see the Lord or Lady name.

It'll be much easier to have a toggle for it to say "Zoltog of Quasari's Keep" or "Bun'jitsu of Svenn's Guard" than another unique name people have to keep up with and be in reference to each other. Heck, there could be a lot of fun unlocking different suffix's for the Keep to tag onto your name through PvE. Maybe I'll unlock an option to have it called something like "Bertram Cragraven of Quasari's Merry Men." Just think of adapting the current system instead of changing and further complicating it.

MoikPEI
09-28-2013, 02:25 PM
I like that idea, Quasari.

mudkip
09-28-2013, 03:22 PM
It'll be much easier to have a toggle for it to say "Zoltog of Quasari's Keep" or "Bun'jitsu of Svenn's Guard"

I think that's a good compromise.

Xenavire
09-28-2013, 04:57 PM
23 pages. And the spread is about 50/50 from what I can see. This is pretty much the same as the poll about the t-shirts. How can the people defending this not see the patterns here, and see that to a lot of us it is a problem? Especially when a fair number of you weighed in about the tshirts.

CZE has even said they are looking at the problem - the exact same kind of reaction that they had with the tshirts. I don't know what they are going to do, but it seems fairly obvious this is something they cannot and are not going to ignore. So the people saying it doesn't need to change should be a little more respectful towards the people asking for change - don't just say that the opinions don't matter and it is set in stone, because it obviously is not the case.

I do hope I can use a screen name I am comfortable and still use my creative muscles to come up with a fitting keep name without them being the same thing. Because I know I would never be able to find a name that I would be satisfied with. I would spend every day playing Hex reminded that I had to choose some clunky crappy name as a substitute for something interesting or practical.

Xtopher
09-28-2013, 05:10 PM
dbl post

Xtopher
09-28-2013, 05:12 PM
Don't worry, it will be fixed. There are too many people that don't like it for them to do nothing. Even if it's only 10% that are unhappy, they'll figure something out. (IMO)

Remember it's a long road to beta. A lot will happen over the next months and there's plenty of time to address this issue.

Lafoote
09-28-2013, 06:08 PM
No problem with the announced plan. It works for the Windsors.

RanaDunes
09-28-2013, 11:50 PM
Don't worry, it will be fixed. There are too many people that don't like it for them to do nothing. Even if it's only 10% that are unhappy, they'll figure something out. (IMO)

Remember it's a long road to beta. A lot will happen over the next months and there's plenty of time to address this issue.

If it doesn't get fixed before Alpha registration then it won't be fixed (and should not be).

I will either way go with my characters name as my "surname" or keep name which will sound retarded unfortunately. But at least my chat handle and PvP matches will show the name I want to be.

I just don't understand. Are we going to be representing our Keep more than 50% of our playing time? my impression was I'd be spending 90% of the time playing PvP matches and PvE raids (in character) and 10% if not less updating my keep. Why would I be called using my surname/keep name instead? especially when most of our interactions are at a "persona" level and the keep has no presence there.

What I suggest is...
Make our official unique alias a Name just like in MMOs. Our name.
Make our keep names not unique. Since Keep name will not show everywhere (in chat, pvp matches...etc) it really wouldn't make a big hassle to add the Keep owners real name between brackets afterwards (to indicate this keep belongs to User X).

I'm not sure how players are going to find Keeps but I'm assuming they can do it by going through a player's name first and look for their keep. If that's not the case; then as suggested above add the player's unique name as a tag somewhere next to the Keep's name.

This way we get to name our keep but we can also choose a username/alias that make sense. You know, to talk in chat with your persona instead of a Keep Name or a "Surname".

sukebe
09-29-2013, 12:38 AM
Wow, so much craziness in this thread.

Truhls and FeelnFine: If you want to extrapolate the responses in this topic to the rest of the kickstarters/slacker backers you are going about it wrong. It is practically a forum rule that people are more likely to post on forums to complain about something than they are to post about something they like. So, since this topic has such a small difference between those who are for the naming convention and those who are against, past experience would imply that the majority is either for the change or neutral to it.

Xtopher (and many others): The problem with allowing nicknames or a choice of which names are used for chat/gameplay is that it is important for the community to know who the person they are talking to at any given time is. If you can switch between different names (I.E. different characters or nicknames/keepname) it will be far to easy to confuse/harass/cheat players. If they use a system like this then the only way it would work would be to give a single chance on account creation to choose a nickname and then make you live with that choice for the life of the account. I find this unnecessary, but I can at least see it working.


I really hope they do not change this. I feel that those who are complaining on the forums about this will learn to work with the system just fine. Many people are against change/different ways of doing things at first. I know they have said they are "looking into this" over the weekend but I hope that in doing so they see that what they are planning is a fun, unique way to do things and do not change it. I like it when companies listen to their customers but I have seen far to many games die due to companies folding under the slightest pressure of their more active players (I.E. forum posters). They already made changes that I feel were done only to placate people who feel they deserve all items (or a chance at all items). I am of course talking about the change to convention promo cards. This is not something that needs changing. It will work just fine with minimal work on anybodies part to adapt to it.

Gorgol
09-29-2013, 01:14 AM
I like it when companies listen to their customers but I have seen far to many games die due to companies folding under the slightest pressure of their more active players (I.E. forum posters).
It works both ways. I've seen games die because of not listening as well.

Ogodei
09-29-2013, 01:14 AM
Here's an idea:

1. Keep name.
2. Lord name.
3. Champion name.

1. The name of your keep/kingdom. Can be unique or non-unique, whatever works.

2. The name people will see in chat, profile, etc. Your name will be listed in your profile as: Lord/Lady [Lord name] of [Keep Name]. This will be unique.
example: We go to user Bob's profile. It shows at the top: Lord Bob, king of Bobland.

3. Champions will be as-is.
example: Champion Minibob of Bobland.

man, isn't that a brilliant and elegant solution?

This.

Lord name would basically be the account name (optionally add titles other than "Lord" probably as rewards). Also it would be your chat handle – anywhere and for everything (also for friends lists, guild membership, rankings etc). So let's say my account name would be "Ogodei".

Make Keep names optional. If you don't name your keep, it would be "Ogodei's Keep" by default (again, eventually add other terms such as castle, fort, hold, etc). Allow people to OPTIONALLY give their Keep a different name (unique?), like Winterfell (-> "Winterfell Keep", "Castle Winterfell", "Fort Winterfell", etc)

So if I name my PvE character "Herbert" he'd be "Herbert of Ogodei's Keep" or "Herbert of Castle Winterfell", depending on the above. BUT I wouldn't use the character name in chat etc. Just when examining a character and such.

If I'm in a raid or something, I would still show as "Ogodei:" in chat, to keep things short and simple. At most I would do something like "Ogodei (Herbert):" or "Herbert (Ogodei):". Same goes for PvP (e.g. "Ogodei (Ozzog):").

So keep all the lengthy fancy titles for parts of the interface where you have the room for them, like character sheets, the deck building interface, when examining the keep, etc. Honestly, they don't really matter much and are mostly flavour, even character names are basically just slightly more important than the name of a card. It's just a champion that is part of your current deck after all, so it has much less of a weight than in an ordinary MMORPG. Because this isn't a RPG, but a TCG. (This is also why I'm for guild membership by account and not by character btw)

This would pretty much kill the importance of Keep names though (since they wouldn't be used as a general handle inc chat etc), but I think you can't have account/lord names, keep names and character names being similar important but have to focus on one instead. It's easier and keeps things simple and less confusing.

Badger
09-29-2013, 02:01 AM
I like "Course" for a keep name.

Xenavire
09-29-2013, 03:54 AM
sukebe, there is no chance I will ever be satisfied with any name to work for both my screen name and my keep name. No hyperbole, I just know I will never feel comfortable with it. And I am certain that a lot of others will feel the same.

Theres a difference between being unique, and doing what is best for the game. Most of the time they have managed to do both, but this time a decent number of people are questioning it, and not just to be spiteful, but because it will have a lasting impact on everything they do ingame.

This isn't like the resource system that all the WoWTCG players are crying about because it is different, and it is also not some impossible request to have it changed. This is a completely reasonable request that will raise the overall enjoyment of the game for many people without negatively impacting anyone.

Xtopher
09-29-2013, 04:42 AM
At first I was thinking, Hmm, this changes my plans for my user name. But then, without even thinking on it really, about a dozen great keep names popped into my head over the course of a few hours.

I'm not telling anyone how to feel. Just to open your minds and think on it. If you were forced to follow their initial plan, what could you think of for a keep name you'd be happy with? Believe me, if I thought this was a dull, unimaginative group of people, I doubt I'd be here.

RanaDunes
09-29-2013, 04:47 AM
The problem is there are plenty of AMAZING keep names but I don't want to be called THAT. It will feel weird if my name is actually a cool Castle or Keep name and someone refer to me as that. "Hello there Camelot how are you doing today?" "I'm doing fine, Helmsdeep. Have you seen Isengard recently?"

Xtopher
09-29-2013, 04:53 AM
Well, as already has been said, it comes down to the user being able to control the display of his screen name. Whether he wants to use his keep name or one of his character names.

I was thinking more in terms of original keep names. Borrowing them from literature does sound awkward.

blakegrandon
09-29-2013, 05:30 AM
Well, as already has been said, it comes down to the user being able to control the display of his screen name. Whether he wants to use his keep name or one of his character names.

I was thinking more in terms of original keep names. Borrowing them from literature does sound awkward.

Whatevs, I'm totally gunning for Westeros.

Barring that or any changes to how names are displayed I will probably do what I always have done, just barcode it up.

If you get 5-10 barcodes in the top ten it becomes so exciting as barcodes try to move up the ladder but no one can tell who is moving up the ladder.

>.<

I like the nannies advocating banning people with names they find "offensive", every name ever could be considered offensive, got to love people advocating other paying players be banned for some preconceived line being crossed.

What if a name becomes offensive? Do we retroactively ban anyone with a name that becomes offensive?

Where do we draw the line? Will there be clear rules when it comes to naming so that we can know what is a "bannable" offense? Having arbitrary rules isn't good for anyone involved because then it gets warped and abused by easily offended people.

I personally can't wait to see people complaining about lack of enforcement without realizing that customer service representatives will have HUGE caseloads, responding to all the reports of "offensive" names, making sure they don't ban people that got reported because they beat an easily offended person, responding to abuse of reports, and so forth and so on.

Just remember YOUR name could probably offend someone for some reason because they're having a bad day or your name annoys them.

MoikPEI
09-29-2013, 07:26 AM
@Xtopher, it's not just an issue of creativity to identify a plausible keep name. For people in guilds, it's simpler for the sub-community to retain their existing identities, and often those existing identities don't work as a keep name. Sure, I can pick a bad-ass keep name like Jotenheim, easy peasy, but then "Who is Jotenheim?" gets asked a hundred times before everyone else has learns it. It's disruptive to guilds to need to re-learn who everyone else is once in-game unless we retain our current monikers in some location. The only place this really matters is chat and pvp. Probably most people asking for change are not asking for the removal of keep naming, simply the addition of another layer in order to make existing identities apparent for existing relationships.

Quasari
09-29-2013, 07:58 AM
If they separate it into two unique names I see it going one of two ways.

1. They push back alpha to implement it. They promised that we would be reserving our names with alpha, to carry out this promise they would have to make sure the naming was final. It might take weeks to fully detail, change and test the interactions between the two unique names. Fallout from the majority of people who liked it or didn't care could be very high.

2. They stay on track with alpha and release it later. Confusion sets in. Is my keep name final? Do I use my user name as my keep and it gets wiped later? How is the name change process going to be handled? Did they keep their reservation promise. Again I for see a shitstorm on how confusing changing will be.

Honestly the best thing would be to keep the single name system and adapt it to be more versatile. My suggestion is with choosable formatting so that it would make sense as either a place or person.

Xenavire
09-29-2013, 08:07 AM
If they separate it into two unique names I see it going one of two ways.

1. They push back alpha to implement it. They promised that we would be reserving our names with alpha, to carry out this promise they would have to make sure the naming was final. It might take weeks to fully detail, change and test the interactions between the two unique names. Fallout from the majority of people who liked it or didn't care could be very high.

2. They stay on track with alpha and release it later. Confusion sets in. Is my keep name final? Do I use my user name as my keep and it gets wiped later? How is the name change process going to be handled? Did they keep their reservation promise. Again I for see a shitstorm on how confusing changing will be.

Honestly the best thing would be to keep the single name system and adapt it to be more versatile. My suggestion is with choosable formatting so that it would make sense as either a place or person.

They could do a wipe before beta, still during alpha, to accomodate for naming, or simply create a temporary in-game field to chose whether you want your keep name to be your screen name or keep name, and then let you fill in the remaining field. Or they could just make an announcement, and say 'we will be temporarily leaving it this way, choose your KEEP names, and we will add player names in an update."

Pushing back alpha would not be required, but it might be the simplest solution if it will take so much time to edit it.

Svenn
09-29-2013, 09:18 AM
At first I was thinking, Hmm, this changes my plans for my user name. But then, without even thinking on it really, about a dozen great keep names popped into my head over the course of a few hours.

I'm not telling anyone how to feel. Just to open your minds and think on it. If you were forced to follow their initial plan, what could you think of for a keep name you'd be happy with? Believe me, if I thought this was a dull, unimaginative group of people, I doubt I'd be here.
But this misses the point. I can think of great keep names too. However, those keep names are not what I want MY name to be. Not only is it awkward to have my name be the name of a place, but (as MoikPEI said) there's this long annoying period of every one of my friends and guild members asking in chat "Wait, who are you again?" until everyone learns new names. I've been using "Svenn" as my online alias for 14+ years and having to change it would annoy and frustrate me, and make it hard for people who know me to identify me. I can tell you from experience that having to learn new names for people you already know has a very large negative effect on the game. I find that people that have existing communities find it harder to adapt to the game as their community is severely disrupted.


sukebe, there is no chance I will ever be satisfied with any name to work for both my screen name and my keep name. No hyperbole, I just know I will never feel comfortable with it. And I am certain that a lot of others will feel the same.
I am with Xenavire here. If I have to name myself as a keep then I will forever be bothered by it. I love my names and I don't like when names don't make sense... so either way I go with naming (naming my keep my name and ignoring the keep part of it, or naming myself a keep name and having to take a new identity) I will be bothered every single time I see my name in game.


If they separate it into two unique names I see it going one of two ways.

1. They push back alpha to implement it. They promised that we would be reserving our names with alpha, to carry out this promise they would have to make sure the naming was final. It might take weeks to fully detail, change and test the interactions between the two unique names. Fallout from the majority of people who liked it or didn't care could be very high.

2. They stay on track with alpha and release it later. Confusion sets in. Is my keep name final? Do I use my user name as my keep and it gets wiped later? How is the name change process going to be handled? Did they keep their reservation promise. Again I for see a shitstorm on how confusing changing will be.
1. They shouldn't push back Alpha for this. It's something we can live with for now as long as we know what's going to happen. It depends on the solution they choose though.

2. They have a bunch of options that work here depending on the solution they choose. They could simply add a nickname later, and just tell us that is happening so everyone can name their keep as a keep. They could allow a keep name change one time when they implement the change for this. There are a lot of ways to implement this in the future without causing a huge disruption, but it depends on the solution they go with.

And finally, for those not following along... here are the issues.

1) We are people, not places, so identifying yourself as a location name is just awkward. This leads to naming your keep a normal keep name and having to deal with people calling you a location OR naming yourself a personal name and having a stupid sounding keep that doesn't sound like a keep name (which defeats the whole purpose of the keep name system anyway).

2) Many of us have names that we've been using as our online alias for a LONG time (more than a decade). We really don't want to lose that identity. The only way to do this is to ignore the whole keep thing and just use our normal name anyway, which makes the keep naming system pointless anyway. If tons of people are simply going to ignore the whole fact that your name is a keep name and use their normal alias that doesn't make sense as a keep name, doesn't that essentially undermine the entire idea anyway?

3) Having keep names instead of player nicknames makes it harder for existing friends/guild members to identify who is who (unless they just use a personal name for the keep name as above) since everyone will be the name of a place and not their usual names. This causes a lot of confusion among existing communities/friends.

And here are some of the proposed solutions:

1) Add a nickname that is not unique. In chat, friend/guild lists, and anywhere else you are personally identified you are identified as "Nickname (Keepname)". If I choose "Ethir" as my keep and "Svenn" as my nickname I'll be "Svenn (Ethir)". This works much the same way champion names work in that the nicknames are not unique and your Keep name is the only unique name, but it will make it MUCH easier for friends/guild members to identify who is who. There could be a "Svenn (Winterfell)" or whatever, so the Keep name is still the main identifier. It's a really simple solution that doesn't change the existing implementation much.

2) Allow for a unique Nickname AND a unique Keep Name. The nickname is used in chat, friends list, and identifying the person while the keep name is used anywhere the keep is important. This one is a little harder to implement and each player ends up with 2 unique names, but it makes much more sense for players to be able to identify with a personal name for themselves and not a place name.

3) Give players the option of how to display their keep name. A player who wants to actually use the name of a place could name themselves the name of that place and not change anything. Someone who wants something that is more a player name could do that as well and just set the keep name display to "(Name)'s Keep" or something similar, such as "Svenn's Keep". Players with a location/place name would just display as "Gozzog of Ethir" for example (with Ethir being the keep name). Players with a personal name would display character names as "Istari of Svenn's Keep" as an example (with Svenn being the keep name). This one is just a simple change to the way a keep name is displayed for those who want it without changing the way keep names work at all. Simple and elegant solution, though it does essentially mean that some people's keep names will not be very interesting place names.

Gorgol
09-29-2013, 10:05 AM
I agree with everything Svenn said above.
But as a side question: If our Keep name is unique, are we no longer going to have both Underworld and Ardent Keeps? Or is it one unified name for both so I have to pick a neutralish Keep name (I like to keep in theme) so as not to end up with Nercopolia (for example) as Ardent.

MoikPEI
09-29-2013, 10:07 AM
You could have Necropolia be Ardent. Each time you switch faction you could pretend it's a hotly contested territory changing hands. Then it's simply a successful occupation.

Truhls
09-29-2013, 10:52 AM
I thought somewhere they said once you pick underworld/ardent you wouldnt be able to change it? I thought it was going to be one of the "big" decisions you made for your account?

Quasari
09-29-2013, 11:03 AM
I thought somewhere they said once you pick underworld/ardent you wouldnt be able to change it? I thought it was going to be one of the "big" decisions you made for your account?

That was the original decision, but now they say you can do both and guilds are limited to one side or the other.

RCDv57
09-29-2013, 11:21 AM
I had previously suggested a solution that I think would be fairly simple to implement, and really liked.
So i drew up a *pretty* picture of what it might look like.

Hypothetically you double click on your keep name or Hero name and something like this would pop up.
1061

Of course there would be a fortress name options too. If you are into that kinda thing.

Ginaz
09-29-2013, 11:43 AM
People are over thinking this too much. This is a TCG, not an RPG. There's no good reason to have a naming convention that tries to go in the RPG direction. Keep it simple.

keroko
09-29-2013, 11:48 AM
I don't give a Tuppeny f or a tinker's t about anything other than the inability to use space characters in relation to this issue

Xenavire
09-29-2013, 12:27 PM
People are over thinking this too much. This is a TCG, not an RPG. There's no good reason to have a naming convention that tries to go in the RPG direction. Keep it simple.

Except that you are wrong - PvE will be very similar to a RPG in many ways. Just in a TCG shaped warpper. And a lot of people will be partaking in both sides, so forcing a strange naming convention on them will do nothing but upset them.

Thanks for being so understanding. I came to my conclusions after mere seconds of thinking, then reviewed it several times before deciding it was bad. No overthinking needed.