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View Full Version : Mill deck ft: Incantation of Fear



IndigoShade
09-27-2013, 02:50 PM
So ever since I saw Incantation of Fear (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Incantation-Of-Fear/314) I just really liked the card and was thinking how amazing he would be paired with Extinction (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Extinction/39) along with Blood Harbinger (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Blood-Harbinger/68) and Warlock Inquisitor (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Warlock-Inquisitor/232). However relying on Extinction alone to reliably get him into play would probably be a bad idea so came about the idea of trying to work him into a mill deck.

You could use Nin the Shadow (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Nin-the-Shadow/242) as your champion, which would allow you to do a pretty badass combat trick paired with Chronic Madness (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Chronic-Madness/190) to transform Incantation of Fear (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Incantation-Of-Fear/314) into Nightmare (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Nightmare/315) from 0 charges for a surprise blocker. Then the obvious mill deck staples would have to be Uruunaz (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Uruunaz/57) and possibly Booby Trap (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Booby-Trap/99), I'm just not so sure how good Booby Trap (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Booby-Trap/99) will really turn out to be. High Tomb Lord (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/High-Tomb-Lord/313) seems to be a pretty good fit as well. Then since both of those 2 guys along with Incantation of Fear (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Incantation-Of-Fear/314) can also benefit from forcing your opponent to discard Giant Corpse Fly (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Giant-Corpse-Fly/115) might not be a bad fit either, I'm not so convinced Blood Thrall (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Blood-Thrall/9) is reliable enough to warrant a spot though.

So what do you guys think? Does this look to have promise or is it just too all over the place? In theory it seems to be pretty synergistic to me, but it has been awhile since I have played a TCG and I'm not sure that in practice it would be consistent enough.

Edit: Oh yeah, I was also thinking about the Turreted Wall (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Turreted-Wall/3) / Cerulean Mirror Knight (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Cerulean-Mirror-Knight/32) combo, which also would work pretty well with Warlock Inquisitor (http://www.hex-datamine.com/cards/Warlock-Inquisitor/232) with the major blood gem to deal damage when he comes into play. I doubt there's room in the deck for all of that though.

The_Wine_Gnat
09-27-2013, 04:06 PM
You are speaking my language! I was hoping to put together a very similar mill deck like you listed above, though I never thought about Blood Harbinger or Extinction. I definitely think your idea has merit, especially with Nin the Shadow and High Tomb Lord. I too am unsure about Booby Trap.

Something I try hard to keep in mind is the purpose of the deck. Is it to mill or is it to Booby Trap? How does it win? Does it rely on High Tomb Lords, Uruunaz, or running the enemy champ out of cards? Picking and focusing on one of those changes your card choices dramatically.

vulture27
09-27-2013, 05:37 PM
Here is an article from Magic: The Gathering about mill decks.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/td/73

There are a lot of good pieces of info, but here are a select few.

1. Slow mill decks were successful in magic 15 years ago, and disappeared quickly with the first significant aggro decks (red sligh decks, and black Necropotence). What you are proposing is a /very/ slow mill deck. Hex's Murder is a great card, but a joke compared to the one cost Sword to Plowshares. Extinction is solid, but a turn slower then Wrath of God. Nothing in Hex even compares to Counterspell from Magic. There are already a few good aggro decks available (blood/ruby orcs, mono-ruby aggro, some form of inspire deck, etc.), and these will cause you serious problems.

2. Mill made a return a few years later in an environment already dominated by control decks. It was able to exist largely because the below two cards could take out 1/3 of the opponents deck individually. Currently, Uruunaz seems to be the only way you will remove large quantities of cards like this, but honestly Uruunaz is going to win the game via damage long before that happens (and it costs 7 to cast).

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%20Beleren
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archive%20Trap

3. The mill decks were able to take advantage of other common decks using resource bases you will not see in Hex (at least early on).
______________

Incantation of Fear seems like a good card without a home. It is best in a mill deck, but if you're playing a mill deck why are you trying to win with an early 6/4 (using at least 2 turns and 2 cards + hero power to get there)? It could have a place in an Extinction based control deck, but if you already have the 5+ resources to play Extinction then more dominant finishers should be available. It is also a pretty horrible card in the control decks if you draw it after you cast your Extinction.


Edit: And because I have always been a red mage at heart, a quote I love;

"There's a very old quote that I believe is attributed to old-school Magic player Dave Price:
'People like control because they think it shows that they're good Magic players. Active decks, on the other hand, produce threats, and control decks must have the right answer to the right threat. If not, they're in trouble. While there are wrong answers, there are no wrong threats.'”

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/sw72

IndigoShade
09-27-2013, 06:01 PM
There's quite a few cards that I mentioned that synergize with milling your opponent. (Booby Trap, Incantation of Fear, High Tomb Lord). Just because the traditional win condition of a mill deck has been to run your opponent out of cards doesn't mean that is it's only function, the kind of deck I'm talking about would definitely be looking to kill you through damage.

I'm not making any predictions or claims about this deck idea at this point, and maybe those cards aren't enough to make milling a viable method of winning, especially when the objective isn't even to run your opponent out of cards. However, I don't see how comparing cards to their M:tG counterparts is really even relevant to this discussion.

As for Incantation of Fear, using 2 cards + a champion power to trigger him is only an option. It's not like that's the only way to get him into play, that was just an example of a neat combat trick you could possibly use to catch someone by surprise if they didn't expect you to build 5 charges on it immediately or at the very least it gives them something to worry about. Playing it before casting Extinction and having your 6/4 as the only troop on the board would be great, however I don't exactly agree with the statement that "It is also a pretty horrible card in the control decks if you draw it after you cast your Extinction.". You say that as if Extinction is the only way to trigger it. The loosely outlined deck idea presented here offers several ways to generate charges on the thing besides whatever cards would go into your opponent's graveyard naturally, milling being just one of them. I did neglect to mention single target troop destruction, but I would think that's sort of a given.

vulture27
09-27-2013, 08:24 PM
However, I don't see how comparing cards to their M:tG counterparts is really even relevant to this discussion.

As for Incantation of Fear, using 2 cards + a champion power to trigger him is only an option. It's not like that's the only way to get him into play, that was just an example of a neat combat trick you could possibly use to catch someone by surprise

The point of the comparison was this; mill decks with better, faster removal couldn't survive an average aggro deck. Having significantly worse removal/counters in Hex is not making it any easier.

As for using the Incantation as a combat trick, I think you are mistaken. Hero powers can only be used at basic action speed (as well as Chronic Madness). Nightmare will already be on the board prior to the start of combat, which isn't tricking anyone.

Edit: My comment about Incantation being useless after Extinction was assuming it being used in a more traditional control deck as compared to the proposed idea. After a board wipe, without milling cards in your deck, it would like take 4+ turns to achieve the 5 counters.

vulture27
09-27-2013, 08:53 PM
Additional thought, maybe Incantation is best as a sideboard card. If you opponent is playing a draw/go style deck, or another heavily action based deck, you could get it out as an early threat. I'm not sure how token creatures interact with Buccaneer/Time Ripple bounce effects in Hex (in M:tG they just get removed from the game, but Hex's tokens actually have casting costs/types/etc like real cards). If they are removed like in Magic, this probably isn't the best use of Incantation either.

jaxsonbatemanhex
09-27-2013, 11:37 PM
To be fair, there is potential to transform Incantation at quick speed. Opponent goes to combat, attacks with two troops. Incantation on 4 counters, you Murder one troop, Incantation transforms, block and eat the other. However, while that scenario isn't totally unlikely, I imagine it'll happen far less often than it does.

As for mill in general, having played against a blood/sapphire control/mill deck, it can work well even with just the cards currently spoiled. Admittedly, the way I ultimately beat it in our best of 3 was to convert my deck to its mid-range aggro option out of the sideboard, but the fact is blood/sapphire has great control options, and having mill as a win condition is a potentially valid choice (will have to wait and see how things turn out with all the cards spoiled). In particular, Chronic Madness + Archmage Wrenlocke is pretty nifty.

I just want to make a quick note on High Tomb Lord though - personally, not much of a fan in general. If Lord of Extinction has taught me anything, its that generally 'vanilla fatties' don't do that well if they cost 5+ mana, even if they're way above curve. The reason Tarmogoyf does well is because he can get up to very loft heights for only a small mana investment - so if he gets brickwalled by tokens or whatever, you haven't lost much. But a High Tomb Lord being stunted by a Concubunny means that it's not doing much of anything. You compare it to other 6 drops, and I'd much rather Sadistic Castigator - it's flying, so its lower attack is more likely to connect, and it has a useful ability, so even if it can't connect for whatever reason it's still pulling its weight.

Having said that, in a mill deck with a hard control theme I don't know if you'd want to be 'tapping out' for an expensive bomb.

IndigoShade
09-28-2013, 02:56 AM
Yeah actually you are right about both champion abilities and Chronic Madness being basic actions :o so much for that idea. Maybe I was just trying to think happy thoughts as hard as I can to make this deck idea work.

Edit: Oh well, here's to hoping for more hand destruction cards to be revealed; that's another thing that Incantation of Fear would go great with.

Icepick
09-29-2013, 04:40 AM
I've had almost the exact idea for a deck floating around in my head for a while, and I'm pretty excited to try it in alpha. I think with all the cool cards in Hex, a deck that has a lot of mill in order to power other effects could be a pretty powerful one. Whether or not it's better just to focus on a decking your opponent for the win or using those mill-powered cards for a damage victory I'm not sure, but I think I'd be pretty happy running that deck that splits its focus between the two.

ramseytheory
09-29-2013, 02:01 PM
I personally really like Incantation of Fear in a mill deck, and I don't think getting the 6/4 out conflicts with the goal of the deck at all. Why? Because as long as you get to play a single copy of Sabotage, and your opponent isn't using a lifegain deck, you're going to win from your opponent running out of life rather than running out of cards. (And Sabotage is a card you should be running in any mill deck. If you play two Chronic Madnesses, you've milled nine cards. If you play two Sabotages, you've effectively milled half your opponent's deck and given them a ~1/6 chance of a dead draw each turn.)

SuperPueppi
09-30-2013, 02:49 AM
It might just be that booby trap is enough as a killswitch - 5 damage per trap is pretty nifty, but you obviously need ways to increase the standard chance of it showing up (which is ~7-8% if cast in turn 3). Starting fro that you can already create a nice deck with Chronic Madness, Archmage Wrenlocke etc. If there's things like Fork lightning in the final deck or more cards to retreive actions from your graveyard even better. Once that is fleshed out to a working level you just need control to live long enough until you exploded your opponent with the booby traps.
Counterspells are an obvious choice as you might not use up your ressources anyway. The rest about creature removal is obvious and I do also like incantation of fear as an idea, because one it's out there it basically means that you control to a large degree that you live long enough (opponent draws mostly only cards that are worthless or you have a response to). And if the nightmare is doing the last points of damage, why not.
Cards like Xarlok are also nice, as they can remove 2 creatures (one blocking, one by ability). Or Menacing Grulk to effectively shut down your opponent's creatures later on for a turn.
What might be worthwile too, is Zombie Plague, in any case it will shut down weenie decks, and for any other deck with creatures it has a chance to thin out their decks while at the worst making their creatures weaker.

Oh, and you didn't mention fate rack to be included - the actual millstone.

Aradon
09-30-2013, 08:28 AM
If you're playing a control/stall deck, you will absolutely want Extinction to clear the board. It buys you a lot more time, and chews through their resources pretty well. Also, if you're ever playing PvE, it's got a godly piece of equipment: 'nobody can play creatures for two turns afterwards.'

IndigoShade
10-02-2013, 10:33 AM
Enter the Eye of Oblivion (http://hextcgpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/EyeOfOblivion.png) *dun dun dun*! With more cards yet to be revealed, this deck idea might not be so dead after all.

jaxsonbatemanhex
10-02-2013, 11:55 PM
Mill was fine before Eye of Oblivion was spoiled. Actually, it might struggle to make the cut, given how many options blood/sapphire control has at the 2 slot (given that, IMO, that's the best shell for a mill deck).

houjix
10-03-2013, 06:19 AM
Mill was fine before Eye of Oblivion was spoiled. Actually, it might struggle to make the cut, given how many options blood/sapphire control has at the 2 slot (given that, IMO, that's the best shell for a mill deck).

In a deck that's got plenty of other milling, I don't see EoB as a 2 drop. I'm going to almost always play it when it will be a 5/5.

vulture27
10-03-2013, 01:19 PM
http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/images/cards/big/ReginaldLancashire.jpg

Now this guy is a reason to mill I can get behind. Some sort of sapphire/ruby, draw-go/burn/mill deck maybe.

Edit: Though it is effectively a random chance on top of a random chance that you can win with him. Maybe splash for 2-3 copies of him once we have duel resources.

jaxsonbatemanhex
10-03-2013, 04:08 PM
I'm not the biggest fan - just seems like short and mid range aggro decks will likely beat their mill opponent fast enough for Lancashire to matter in most cases (plus those decks are likely to be running plenty of troops that can eat or trade with him). Certainly a fun card though, and we're bound to get stories of the top-deck of him the turn after he's shuffled into the library. He could also be good against slow, hard control - effectively, whether he's good or not is going to largely depend on the opponent.

Aradon
10-03-2013, 09:02 PM
He does seem like fairly good anti-control tech. He comes in under a board wipe, and if they don't have an answer for your humble 3-mana threat, he'll sneak into their deck, and we know how much control loves drawing cards and drawing the game out. Suddenly, they have a [undefined]-turn clock, and no chance to counterspell that.

AphoticRegret
10-04-2013, 03:31 PM
Allright, with reginald and this guy Ruby/Blood mill is looking more and more like a real thing.

http://hextcgpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/EyeOfOblivion.png,

EmraldArcher
10-05-2013, 09:59 AM
I only mention this because it was my favorite deck of the format but there was a really potent mill deck in M:tG during Scars/Innistrad standard.

I don't think Eye of Oblivion is going to end up being a useful win condition in mill decks.