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View Full Version : Game on 2 platforms at launch, but alpha is just on one?



Dekester
09-27-2013, 05:29 PM
I'm confused. Why are they only testing the pc version for the alpha, and tossing in the mac version if they have the resources? Shouldn't they HAVE the resources to get both promised versions ready for release simultaneously?

I'm not trying to start an argument, I just genuinely am confused. I backed this as a mac player, and it was advertised as "From the creators of the World of Warcraft Trading Card Game, HEX is a TCG / MMO that combines the best of both for your PC & MAC". I was looking forward to the alpha before the news today that I might not get to play it. I don't think it's fair to ask players to download another OS just to try the alpha of the game that they helped pay to bring into existence.

I'd love to have someone explain this to me so I can understand this logic.

Xenavire
09-27-2013, 05:33 PM
I'm confused. Why are they only testing the pc version for the alpha, and tossing in the mac version if they have the resources? Shouldn't they HAVE the resources to get both promised versions ready for release simultaneously?

I'm not trying to start an argument, I just genuinely am confused. I backed this as a mac player, and it was advertised as "From the creators of the World of Warcraft Trading Card Game, HEX is a TCG / MMO that combines the best of both for your PC & MAC". I was looking forward to the alpha before the news today that I might not get to play it. I don't think it's fair to ask players to download another OS just to try the alpha of the game that they helped pay to bring into existence.

I'd love to have someone explain this to me so I can understand this logic.

They check if the client is stable and the servers are stable before putting a rush on a mac client that might be broken before it is completed.

No reason for confusion, they are working on it but they chose to prioritise one, for testing purposes. The other will follow shortly, and will be ready before launch.

MoikPEI
09-27-2013, 05:36 PM
PC is the easiest to start on and port from, with the largest pool of experienced programmers to hire from at a fair salary. As the largest predicted market, it's the highest priority, warranting greater focus of time and resources. They should have the resources for both, but likely they don't.

It's a question of lesser evils. Given how much they promised in the KS Stretch, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

jetah
09-27-2013, 05:43 PM
I have a mac and a pc. maybe this thread could be used to pick alpha/beta people because they have a mac.

Idus
09-27-2013, 05:55 PM
They only promised Mac & PC to launch simultaneously. This isn't launch. Launch is when the game goes live after Beta, so until then, they will take it one step at a time when they need to.

I'm a Mac user as well, so I'd love to see the Mac client ASAP, but I understand the situation. They are however developing in Unity I believe, which is a cross-platform tool, so the Mac build should not be too difficult, as long as they have designed the UI to be generic enough to cope with the subtle differences in the way interfaces work between the two operating systems. They would howvere still need to fully test on both platforms before they release, so that may be where the delay is.

Dekester
09-27-2013, 06:22 PM
Please don't think I'm saying I'm mad that I might not get to play early. I'm just worried that the mac version might suffer because it won't be as thoroughly tested.

Xenavire
09-27-2013, 06:24 PM
They wont even go into open beta before they are confidant that things have been tested enough. The one you should be worried about is tablets.

Gwaer
09-27-2013, 06:27 PM
I've never been in a game alpha that had a mac alpha client before a PC client, and I've been in quite a lot of alphas. I'm currently right this second under 3 different NDA's None of those games have mac clients for testing yet and 2 of them have promised them at launch.

Mr.Funsocks
09-27-2013, 07:33 PM
Amount of effort required to port UNITY is comparatively low, I wouldn't be too worried. Plenty of companies have managed much more difficult ports between their beta and their launch.

jimbeem
09-27-2013, 10:29 PM
Please don't think I'm saying I'm mad that I might not get to play early. I'm just worried that the mac version might suffer because it won't be as thoroughly tested.

I'm sure your version will be just fine on release.

RElapse
09-27-2013, 11:47 PM
where was this no mac alpha info?

Gwaer
09-28-2013, 12:48 AM
I normally do not do this, because my word is law. However since shadowelf appears to be mia and cannot back up my lawful words I will do you this service.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=27721&p=297358#post297358

First comment under the break

Niedar
09-28-2013, 01:52 AM
Please don't think I'm saying I'm mad that I might not get to play early. I'm just worried that the mac version might suffer because it won't be as thoroughly tested.

I don't know the best way to describe this to you so I won't but just make a statement that you can believe or not. Much of the testing that will be going on in alpha is going to be on game functionality both on the client and on the server. If there is a bug found with the windows client then more than likely that bug would also exist for the mac client. If there is a bug found in the server code then it is irrelevant.

I am not saying that the mac client doesn't need to be tested because it does but my point is that it doesn't need to be the focus right now but it would still be nice to have the mac client anyways since it shouldn't really be that much effort.

Shadowelf
09-28-2013, 02:58 AM
I normally do not do this, because my word is law. However since shadowelf appears to be mia and cannot back up my lawful words I will do you this service.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=27721&p=297358#post297358

First comment under the break

And i can confirm that you are rarely wrong; to borrow however a quote from one of my favorite movies (training day) "it's not what you know, it 's what you can prove" :)

RElapse
09-28-2013, 08:18 AM
gwaer, i didn't mean to question your athoritah, I was hoping for clarification is all

I have to admit this is disappointing, I do understand all the arguments for reasons why this may not happen for Mac users. I also understand how the majority player base is on windows based PC's.....I get it. However, it would have been nice for a little transparency leading up the alpha so I, and other Mac users would not get our hopes up. on the kickstarter comments section CZE specifically said alpha will be available to ALL backers, and there was never a mention(that i could find) that this delay would occur.

Again I understand all the comments and reasoning behind it, I may not agree but I understand. My main issue is that I will not be able to do manny of the things that we all have looked forward to i.e.. register names/keeps/guilds ect on alpha release. For me, it is less about not being able to play, and more about feeling as thou I was left to the wayside, this is why I am disappointed.

All that being said I know CZE is doing there best to deliver on both games and promises, and I trust CZE explicitly to do what they feel is necessary to produce a beautiful finished product.

I wonder if there is a way us lowly mac users can still somehow register?

a) duel boot- in some cases
b)buy a pc - in some cases
c) call a friend

Ideas?

dredcrow
09-28-2013, 08:44 AM
Yeah it would be nice to be able to register somehow at least. I really don't want to put Windows on my Mac but I guess I will if I have to, especially if there is still no Mac client when beta hits. I do have Crossover though and I'm going to try that first.

Malakili
09-28-2013, 09:33 AM
This is quite disappointing. I have a mac laptop and travel a lot. One of the big selling points in Hex for me what that is it PC and Mac, giving me a game I can play at home and on the go. I'm going to be out of the country for a long time with just my laptop and sadly not get to play at all it seems :(.



I do have Crossover though and I'm going to try that first.


Please report back and let us know if this works.

jetah
09-28-2013, 11:57 AM
No where in the 10 pages of updates did CZE say that Mac client will be available at alpha. That to me is pretty transparent.

@RElapse - they aren't limiting access to alpha based on KS Tiers. So everyone who backed via KS will have access to the Alpha. Mac and PC will be available for Launch. How early will Mac have access to the client hasn't been stated. I hope they are working on the Mac client right now and will have it available for half of alpha.

Kami
09-28-2013, 12:03 PM
@RElapse - they aren't limiting access to alpha based on KS Tiers. So everyone who backed via KS will have access to the Alpha.

That's actually not entirely true. Only Squire tier and up from the KS have Alpha access. Everyone has access to Beta though.

Shadowelf
09-28-2013, 12:05 PM
No where in the 10 pages of updates did CZE say that Mac client will be available at alpha. That to me is pretty transparent.


They said so at their interviews Jetah;

pc/mac https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20tC_cGSsY check 0:21:20
pc/mac day one http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 check 0:29:15

Malakili
09-28-2013, 12:31 PM
No where in the 10 pages of updates did CZE say that Mac client will be available at alpha. That to me is pretty transparent.



Is it fair to assume it would be PC only unless otherwise stated? The game was always slated for both platforms.

If it isn't on mac for alpha, it isn't. Nothing I can do about it. But that doesn't mean I can't say it sucks for me if I can't play it on my laptop and that it is a disappointment to me. Maybe it'll work with Crossover.

RElapse
09-28-2013, 01:38 PM
No where in the 10 pages of updates did CZE say that Mac client will be available at alpha. That to me is pretty transparent.

But they never explicitly said they are NOT offering the mac client along side PC release either, they have never addressed the mac question directly so we are left to assume, and you know where that leads, don't get me wrong here, like I stated earlier I am fully aware of the reasons and the arguments on both sides, and again I know CZE is performing a monumental task in all of this. I am just disappointed that it went down this way, and clearly I am not the only one. Obviously there is still confusion on all of this, as evident in these forums, and not just about alpha.

I am not hating on CZE, I am not pissing and moaning and I am not angry, I am simply stating MY disappointment in a public, intelligent way.

All that being said, I am pretty industrious and I am determined to find a way.....does alienware have a 30 day return policy:P

jetah
09-28-2013, 01:43 PM
Is it fair to assume it would be PC only unless otherwise stated? The game was always slated for both platforms.

If it isn't on mac for alpha, it isn't. Nothing I can do about it. But that doesn't mean I can't say it sucks for me if I can't play it on my laptop and that it is a disappointment to me. Maybe it'll work with Crossover.

Right, they never said Mac and PC at alpha either. Only that upon release of HEX the game would be on both platforms.




does alienware have a 30 day return policy:P I don't know but walmart has cheaper laptops and a return policy. You have no friends with a PC?

I'd guess that by the time the KS rewards are dished out, the mac client will be available. I'd like to see a webpage where people could reserve their guild name, keep name.

RElapse
09-28-2013, 01:51 PM
I'd like to see a webpage where people could reserve their guild name, keep name.

this

StyrBjoOrN
09-30-2013, 09:55 AM
Hey there!

Does anyone think that crossover might be able to run the alpha PC-client? (cheaper than bootcamp/parallels :)

Vorpal
09-30-2013, 10:57 AM
I'm confused. Why are they only testing the pc version for the alpha, and tossing in the mac version if they have the resources? Shouldn't they HAVE the resources to get both promised versions ready for release simultaneously?

I'm not trying to start an argument, I just genuinely am confused. I backed this as a mac player, and it was advertised as "From the creators of the World of Warcraft Trading Card Game, HEX is a TCG / MMO that combines the best of both for your PC & MAC". I was looking forward to the alpha before the news today that I might not get to play it. I don't think it's fair to ask players to download another OS just to try the alpha of the game that they helped pay to bring into existence.

I'd love to have someone explain this to me so I can understand this logic.

I imagine the codebase for PC and MAC are different code trees. It would take twice as much work to maintain or update them concurrently, compared to only updating one and then making the final adjustments for the release version. If you had two alpha releases, every bug you found you'd have to fix in two places. Every change you made you'd have to make in two places. Etc.

Also, it's eventually going to be on THREE platforms. PC, MacOS, and Android for tablets. The tablet version is the version I imagine I'll be playing most, but I can completely understand why the alpha is on one client only.

Kami
09-30-2013, 10:58 AM
I imagine the codebase for PC and MAC are different code trees. It would take twice as much work to maintain or update them concurrently, compared to only updating one and then making the final adjustments for the release version. If you had two alpha releases, every bug you found you'd have to fix in two places. Every change you made you'd have to make in two places. Etc.

Also, it's eventually going to be on THREE platforms. PC, MacOS, and Android for tablets. The tablet version is the version I imagine I'll be playing most, but I can completely understand why the alpha is on one client only.

Four platforms.

You left out iOS for tablets.

hex_colin
09-30-2013, 11:02 AM
I imagine the codebase for PC and MAC are different code trees. It would take twice as much work to maintain or update them concurrently, compared to only updating one and then making the final adjustments for the release version. If you had two alpha releases, every bug you found you'd have to fix in two places. Every change you made you'd have to make in two places. Etc.

Also, it's eventually going to be on THREE platforms. PC, MacOS, and Android for tablets. The tablet version is the version I imagine I'll be playing most, but I can completely understand why the alpha is on one client only.

Actually using Unity makes it significantly easier to support multiple platforms with almost no extra effort. However, it does add some complexity that they've clearly chosen to eliminate at the very beginning of Alpha. I bet we'll see a Mac client sooner rather than later (not that I have any direct knowledge of this).

ossuary
09-30-2013, 11:09 AM
Yeah I was going to say... I've programmed a few things in Unity, and putting in multi-platform support is reasonably trivial (if a little time consuming at the outset - a key point to remember in this case), as long as you know what hooks you need for each system to function properly.

I'm sure we'll get a Mac client either before the end of alpha, or very shortly after the transition to beta. And I'm equally sure that even though the KS stretch goal says "tablet support at launch," we'll end up doing some functionality verification testing on that before the end of beta as well (but most likely not until much closer to launch, due to them focusing their efforts where they are most needed at any given time).

Vorpal
09-30-2013, 12:10 PM
Right. You can start from the ground up in such a way that multi platform support is not hard, but given how the additional platforms were added as KS stretch goals, I think it's clear this is not how CZE started. (and it makes sense, when you aren't sure of your funding)

hex_colin
09-30-2013, 12:17 PM
Right. You can start from the ground up in such a way that multi platform support is not hard, but given how the additional platforms were added as KS stretch goals, I think it's clear this is not how CZE started. (and it makes sense, when you aren't sure of your funding)

I believe that's a bad assumption to make - it was always designed for PC, Mac, and the tablet platforms. The KS goals had to do with timing, availability of money for art assets, etc.

Shadowelf
09-30-2013, 12:33 PM
I believe that's a bad assumption to make - it was always designed for PC, Mac, and the tablet platforms. The KS goals had to do with timing, availability of money for art assets, etc.

Very true; what KS did was gathering the resources to accelarate the process.

Cory said 4 monts ago that they had the game ready to run on the mac already

(http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 check 0:29:15)

As for the tablets they said that the game is ready to run on them but minor details, like resolution, art etc

(http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/08/31/dragoncon-2013-hextcg-pvp-design-panel/ check 0:59:00)

Vorpal
09-30-2013, 01:48 PM
I don't see any way to reconcile the view that multiple platform support requires no extra effort, but that CZE needed additional funding to be able to provide multi-platform support.

Tablet support was the 1.5 million hex stretch goal. If they had not met that stretch goal, there would have been no tablet support.

And there would be been no reason to NOT have tablet support if it required no additional effort. They'd be needlessly cutting themselves off from a market segment.

hex_colin
09-30-2013, 01:54 PM
I don't see any way to reconcile the view that multiple platform support requires no extra effort, but that CZE needed additional funding to be able to provide multi-platform support.

Tablet support was the 1.5 million hex stretch goal. If they had not met that stretch goal, there would have been no tablet support.

And there would be been no reason to NOT have tablet support if it required no additional effort. They'd be needlessly cutting themselves off from a market segment.

No, the stretch goal was tablet support at launch, not whether or not there would ever be tablet support.

And, no one is saying that it's no extra effort, just that the extra development (coding) effort is minimal. There is a lot more that goes into it other than the coding though - proper size/resolution art assets, tablet-based use cases, some interface re-design.

Shadowelf
09-30-2013, 02:03 PM
I don't see any way to reconcile the view that multiple platform support requires no extra effort, but that CZE needed additional funding to be able to provide multi-platform support.

Tablet support was the 1.5 million hex stretch goal. If they had not met that stretch goal, there would have been no tablet support.

And there would be been no reason to NOT have tablet support if it required no additional effort. They'd be needlessly cutting themselves off from a market segment.

Actually what Cory said is that tablet support was already planned, but with KS they were able to accelarate the process (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20tC_cGSsY check 0:21:20). Nobody said that it will be easy to do, but if you got the money you can hire the people to do it. What would have happened if KS wasn't so successful was that instead of getting tablets at launch, we will be getting them in perhaps a couple of years.

Here is where they talk about it ;
tablets: http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/08/31/dragoncon-2013-hextcg-pvp-design-panel/ check 0:58:35
mac http://www.twitch.tv/weekingeek/b/413067790 check 0:29:15

Vorpal
09-30-2013, 02:18 PM
Ah, I misunderstood the stretch goals then. You two are probably right about the specifics.

Thanks for the info! <3