PDA

View Full Version : [Mechanics Idea] Champion Equipment Cards in PvP



MugenMusou
09-29-2013, 01:45 PM
Yes. I have nothing better to do... I just really like thinking these stuff.

What's Champions' Equipment Card?

This is different from what we already have in the HEX where champion gets equipment during the time of deck building in PvE mode, which in turn affects cards in your deck.

The equipment cards are more of a classic Magic's equipment but Champion equpiment cards attaches to the champion. This concept is not new in the world of dTCG as we see on Shadow Era.

What is the benefit of having such card type?

Everything to me comes down to the variation in game play. One may like the idea therefore plays it, and other may not so don't bother using it. But more options there are, more people can do whatever they want.

Here you can potentially make a deck that primarily focus on making your champion the primary force of battle. Maybe one can even push far to the point, the deck contains NO troop and just win by champion's attack.

How to implement

I think the way Shadow Era has it implemented looks good to me. So basically each equipment have following stats:

- Attack: By equipping this card, your champion gains this much attack power.
- Shield: By equipping this card, your champion will reduced the damage by this much.
- Durability: Each time the equipment is used, it will lose one durability point. When it becomes 0, the equipment becomes destroyed.
- Class: Just so we can use class information in the champion even on PvP, some equipment may have class assigned to it i.e. only champion with the matching class can use this.

Examples

Sword of blood
Equipment - Warrior
Attack: 2
Durability: 5
When your champion damages opponent, you gain that much health.

Shield of Fire
Equipment - Warrior
Defence: 2
Durability: 5
When your opponent attacks your champion, deal 2 damages to the troop.


What do you all think?

HyenaNipples
09-29-2013, 01:52 PM
How would the champion attack? Is he treated like a troop or does his equipment give him Basic Actions like "Attack target Troop/Champion"?

MugenMusou
09-29-2013, 01:55 PM
How would the champion attack? Is he treated like a troop or does his equipment give him Basic Actions like "Attack target Troop/Champion"?

In Shadow Era, once the champion gets equipment you can use as troop i.e. you can attack with him. He will counter attack as well if your opponent troop attacks you. Obviously, the damage won't heal.

Gwaer
09-29-2013, 01:55 PM
This is definitely an interesting idea, that could potentially be implemented in a future set to some degree.

keldrin
09-29-2013, 02:10 PM
From a role playing standpoint, the champion being able to take a direct role in combat makes sense.

Xenavire
09-29-2013, 02:16 PM
For flavour, the equipment could be banners. You would have a weapon of some kind obviously, but you play your banner and lead your army from the front! Although it sounds vaguely similar to how hearthstone works, I think it would be nice in Hex if done correctly.

shocker455
09-29-2013, 02:18 PM
WoWtcg had this, and it was never fun to play vs an equipment deck.

Its one thing when someone runs a few equipment cards, but when a deck of no troops are played it sucks.

MugenMusou
09-29-2013, 02:24 PM
WoWtcg had this, and it was never fun to play vs an equipment deck.

Its one thing when someone runs a few equipment cards, but when a deck of no troops are played it sucks.

Never played WoWTCG but Shadow Era was inspired by it so no wonder why it has the same system. But I do agree with your experience. When I played Shadow Era with players against Allyless deck i.e. equpiment focused deck, the game tends to last long because those deck tend to be mill deck type.

But I think if it is done correctly, and obviously not everyone uses it (otherwise no variation), every once and a while coming across a player playing troopless deck would be fun (in theory).

hex_colin
09-29-2013, 04:13 PM
Who says it's not already implemented? ;)

MugenMusou
09-29-2013, 05:02 PM
Who says it's not already implemented? ;)

Awesome. This now goes onto my blog. Since you are the closest source to the official in my opinion and probably many others. :)

facade
09-29-2013, 05:23 PM
I like the flavor of the idea: having your champion involved on the frontlines in a battle is pretty cool.

But I think this is somewhat artificial/redundant design space. Your idea boils down to basically having Constants or Artifacts that confer multiple effects and have a time limit to how long they are on the field. I don't really think there is that much you can do with them that you can't just do with the existing card types of Artifacts and Constants.

Xintia
09-29-2013, 05:54 PM
Hearthstone does this to a degree in that there are weapons (both as cards and spell effects) that you can equip on your hero, as well as armor effects that essentially "absorb" damage that would be done to the hero. And since equipment is a significant portion of HEX's PvE already, it is not outside the realm of possibility that some form of equipment mechanics could find their way into PvP as well. Although HEX's equipment is a bit different in that it modifies other cards, not the abilities of your champion. But who's to say it's not already on the drawing board somehow? Just one of the exciting things about being a part of a game like this at it's beginning. :)(

Shadowelf
09-29-2013, 06:10 PM
Well that is exactly how wow tcg's heroes worked ;

Weapon and armor cards are equipped directly by a hero, turning that hero into an offensive or defensive powerhouse. With a weapon equipped, a hero can pick off troublesome enemy allies, or go straight after the opposing hero. Armor offers defense against abilities and attacks, as well as granting special abilities to the wearer.

(http://wowtcg.cryptozoic.com/how-play)

Not to mention the fact that the champion's charge power in hex is most probably inspired by wow tcg's hero powers

Lastly, each hero has a unique power which can be used once per game (after which the hero card is turned face down)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft_Trading_Card_Game)

I don't know however if this can be implemented in hex, since hex imitates or is inspired by mtg in pretty much everything else. Also a change like this, will seriously alter gameplay while not necessarily enriching it. Maybe it will be offered in the future as a casual format? For example being able to attach artifact cards to your hero, with their casting cost being their defence value ? or the weapon's casting cost being their attack power?

Aradon
09-29-2013, 06:31 PM
I'd be interested in a class of cards that granted some more charge powers to the champion. Wrath of Zakiir gives you a charge power for 1 charge to do 3 damage, for instance. More cards like that to utilize your charge counters in one way or another is interesting to me, but it seems like they should remain fairly limited; I wouldn't want players to move away from choosing their champion and using that champion's charge power.

facade
09-29-2013, 08:02 PM
I'd be interested in a class of cards that granted some more charge powers to the champion. Wrath of Zakiir gives you a charge power for 1 charge to do 3 damage, for instance. More cards like that to utilize your charge counters in one way or another is interesting to me, but it seems like they should remain fairly limited; I wouldn't want players to move away from choosing their champion and using that champion's charge power.

They could always just create cards that add effects to the champions charge power. That way, the champion's charge power will still be used but now, for example, you might be able to use the charge power to create a battle hopper and do damage to an opponent.

Gorgol
09-29-2013, 08:51 PM
Who says it's not already implemented? ;)
Why must you mess with my brain? :(

EDIT: With great power comes great responsibility.

MugenMusou
09-29-2013, 08:59 PM
Why must you mess with my brain? :(

I know. If it wasn't hexcolin, easy to take it as a joke but with him.. Who knows what he already know about hex that public do not,

Malakili
09-30-2013, 06:40 AM
No. Equipment is a PvE feature. Don't hose competitive play for some RPG inspired gimmick mechanic.

Xenavire
09-30-2013, 06:44 AM
No. Equipment is a PvE feature. Don't hose competitive play for some RPG inspired gimmick mechanic.

Wrong kind of equipment. Think more like equipment artifacts from MTG, or the equivalent of WoWTCG. Which is why I suggested banners - could be a new card type, to avoid confusion. (Banners, battle standards, tabbards, etc)

Malakili
09-30-2013, 08:43 AM
Wrong kind of equipment. Think more like equipment artifacts from MTG, or the equivalent of WoWTCG. Which is why I suggested banners - could be a new card type, to avoid confusion. (Banners, battle standards, tabbards, etc)

My mistake. However, I would say that I don't think your "Champion" should have anything to do with it. If they want to add equipment artifacts that go on regular troops, then I'm fine with it.

hex_colin
09-30-2013, 08:58 AM
My mistake. However, I would say that I don't think your "Champion" should have anything to do with it. If they want to add equipment artifacts that go on regular troops, then I'm fine with it.

That sounds like an awesome idea! ;)

Xenavire
09-30-2013, 09:04 AM
We need artifacts that create squads of creatures. And if those creatures all perform a certain action, the artifact ability triggers.

Imagine the insanity, and the layers of complexity... Then again, that might confuse people. :P

hex_colin
09-30-2013, 09:48 AM
I know. If it wasn't hexcolin, easy to take it as a joke but with him.. Who knows what he already know about hex that public do not,

Cory and the team have been unbelievably generous about giving me a look inside Hex (and CZE). I can't thank them enough - I've had a great deal of fun over the past few months. Some of that is because of my KS-related insanity. Some it of it an entirely unexpected benefit of helping out the community. And... some of it is just because we've all gotten to spend quite a bit of time together (Cons and business trips to SoCal) and become friends.

I probably know quite a bit that CZE would be fine with me sharing. I also know lots of stuff that's still in flux and that they'd probably prefer that I didn't share. At the end of the day, it's not worth taking the chance that I'll share something that will sour the friendships I've developed just to get a few page views or get a leg up on the other fansites. 6 months from now when things are more concrete and I'm more comfortable asking explicitly "can I share this?", who knows what will happen ;) And... that doesn't mean that I won't chime in with the occasional cryptic comment (as I did in this thread ;)).

It's pretty cool to know some of what's going on, and some of what's being planned for the game. I'm bursting waiting to be able to talk about it - every update I hope they'll divulge something new so that we can all talk about it :) I know how difficult it is for me to not just tell all, I can only imagine what it's like for Ben, Chris, Kyle, Will, and the rest of the team to not chime into many of our threads and spoil their secrets.

One of the coolest things has been seeing our (the Hex community) feedback incorporated into the game - you never know when a post on these forums or a conversation with someone at CZE will change something about the game. There are very concrete examples of that that we'll see early in Alpha.

MugenMusou
09-30-2013, 10:35 AM
My mistake. However, I would say that I don't think your "Champion" should have anything to do with it. If they want to add equipment artifacts that go on regular troops, then I'm fine with it.

Magic like equipment is somehow I expect to happen anyways; hence, I omitted here and went straight for (what I felt less likely) champion's equipment. But calling banner rather than the equipment might not be a bad idea to avoid confusion.

I am not sure how WoWTCG had it, but in Shadow Era, they only had equpiment for hero/champion. I like to actually see both options. The reason is simple "more variation in play."



It's pretty cool to know some of what's going on, and some of what's being planned for the game. I'm bursting waiting to be able to talk about it - every update I hope they'll divulge something new so that we can all talk about it :) I know how difficult it is for me to not just tell all, I can only imagine what it's like for Ben, Chris, Kyle, Will, and the rest of the team to not chime into many of our threads and spoil their secrets.

One of the coolest things has been seeing our (the Hex community) feedback incorporated into the game - you never know when a post on these forums or a conversation with someone at CZE will change something about the game. There are very concrete examples of that that we'll see early in Alpha.

I think I can understand what you are saying. I was fortunate to be part of alpha, and play test team for upcoming set of one of dTCG. So I get to see all the cool stuff the public does not know. Then they talk about some of what's coming up on the forum as a hope/suggestion. Since that is exactly what I loved to do until got involved in the team, I could totally see their enthusiasm, but one downside I felt (may be just me) is knowing what's coming prevented me to imagine and make up stuff as on this post. I know your blog does similar, but I have been doing the same for pretty much any TCG that I got hands on as well. It's just fun.

But I can't agree with you more for the last statement and actually glad to see endorsement from someone who knows inside. I inferred how Cryptozoic take a serious look at our posts on the forum from some of the Kickstarter decisions, and occasional comment of Cory on the twitch "I like this idea on the forum post ...". Obviously, we as a gamer have our own desire/dream and wish for what's our ideal game is. But often these just comes out without consideration of overall balance in the system. But at least the developers to take a look and give some consideration into these ideas (not specifically mine but many other unique ideas on the forum) are just great. There are so many TCG that have fixed design and cannot add/modify too much from its fundamental design, but HEX seems to have a great amount of flexibility built into it.

Anyways, thanks for your mysterious post. I'll interpret that in my favor. :)

Zophie
09-30-2013, 08:55 PM
I am not sure how WoWTCG had it, but in Shadow Era, they only had equpiment for hero/champion.

Equipment in WoW TCG is always attached directly to your hero (champion). There were a variety of different equipment types including both weapons and armors. Most of the different armor types could only have one out at a time (like one pair of boots, one cloak, etc) but some items allowed two to be equipped (trinkets, rings). Weapons were slightly different, you could only have 1 weapon in play unless you had the "Dual-Wield" ability which usually weapons like daggers provided.

Weapons would be played by paying the card cost like any other card, but then once they were in play they also had an associated attacking cost. For example you might pay 2 to equip a dagger, then to attack with it you would tap your hero, and then pay the attack cost of 1 or whatever to attack with the dagger, while tapping it as well.

Armors would have no additional cost generally other than what you used to pay for it, and they provided an armor value that you can use to prevent that amount of damage by tapping the card. So if your hero was about to take 5 damage, and you had an armor item with 3 armor on it, you could tap it to prevent the 3 and only take 2 damage. You could not use that armor again until your next turn when it untaps.

On top of all this, many of the weapons and armors of course had varied text and abilities that made them all unique and interact with the rest of the game in various ways, like armors that build up over time, or provide other bonuses or effects to the game.

Adding equipment cards for the champions in Hex would indeed make things quite interesting and I look forward to seeing if some of these ideas are used in Hex :)

MugenMusou
10-01-2013, 02:51 AM
Equipment in WoW TCG is always attached directly to your hero (champion).
Adding equipment cards for the champions in Hex would indeed make things quite interesting and I look forward to seeing if some of these ideas are used in Hex :)

Sounds identical to the Shadow Era, which again took the idea from WOW TCG so no surprise there. I actually like that as well as magic style equipment where they actually attach to troops and if the troop gets destroyed, the equipment simply detaches and remains on the field for next use.

I like both. :)

Turtlewing
10-01-2013, 11:40 AM
I like the idea of cards that can affect your champion in novel ways.

I'm much less sold on the idea of champions directly attacking other champions. It juts seems like it'll make removing threats from the board less practical as a strategy to buy time which in turn will probably make aggro decks more dominate in the meta (since control, burn, and combo can't just kill all your troops to stop your attack, they have to also kill/neutralize you champion.)

Shadowelf
10-01-2013, 12:25 PM
I like the idea of cards that can affect your champion in novel ways.

I'm much less sold on the idea of champions directly attacking other champions. It juts seems like it'll make removing threats from the board less practical as a strategy to buy time which in turn will probably make aggro decks more dominate in the meta (since control, burn, and combo can't just kill all your troops to stop your attack, they have to also kill/neutralize you champion.)

I haven't played wow tcg since what now seems ages ago (2010) , but i don't remember having problems against opposing champions, no matter the deck type. On the contrary, having active champions in the game opened a whole new window of deckbuilding. I don't know however if such a system can be implented in an mtg type of game,or if it will add enough in terms of gameplay to worth the effort. Main reason? resource consistency/card drawing. In wow tcg you could lay a resource per turn, thus you could more easily cast powerful creatures/spells to be able to bypass opponent's armour. This can be done in hex, but it will result to unnecessarily long games. Resources could also be used to draw cards by paying a given reasonable cost. In hex card drawing is rare and expensive. Having your hero equipping weapons and killing opposing creatures or dealing damage is huge card advantage, that hex isn't prepared to deal with.